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I'm running this campaign and have been using the standard overland speeds for sailing ships (48 miles per day). Now I was reading Island of the Empty Eyes, and it says that the trip from Port Peril to Island is, and I quote "several weeks and is mostly uneventful".
Now using the scale on the map, tells me it's 4 days at the outside, a week if the weather is really horrible.
So, is that speed wrong? Or the map scale? Or are my pirates supposed to sail to Senghor, with stops in Quent and Bloodcove on the way before going back to the Island of Empty Eyes?
Because if either of the first 2 options are true I've been running it all wrong for the first 3 installments.
Cheers,
Nope not been running it wrong, as far as I can see you are more or less right depending on the route you take, could be somewhere around 4-6 days I guess. I divided the map up into 50 mile squares along with the mawangi coast map too so I see you're estimate is correct.
I think its just artistic liscene for those that just want to start the adventure and don't sandbox it or bother with travel too much. The text just maybe means they are taking it easy stop off somewhere. It might just mean they berth overnight and are not sailing which would then double the time (48 miles is for 24 hours ship travel, my players have 2 crews one for day and one for night so they can do 48miles a day).
Or they just got it wrong.
My advice stick with the way you are playing, seems right to me, that's what I'll be doing anyway. I don't think it matters on bit anyway.
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sailing speeds.... *sigh*
First, I'd either relocate the island if you WANT a longer trip. The Shackles map is horrifically small, too small by far for much of the stuff that is meant to occur there.... the"ilsand of Empty Eyes" is supposed to be slightly remote, inaccessible and hence ful of unknown dangers. Not the island you can easily reach with a short weeks sail.
otherwise... 48 miles a day is problematic as a speed, since we are looking at sails here. And their inability to sail straight into the direction of the wind, instead resuming to zig-zag tacking.... no-one is taking into account currents (should be strong in the narrow confines between the islands, growth on one's ships (algae, barnacles) slowing things down, reefs and sandbars and..... the vast difficulty of navigating betweeen the islands by sight alone, in the dark. While being able to sail fair and true in open waters.
With ship speeds depending upon size and wind speed. Yes, that would be a very complicated system
On the other hand.. running before the wind or at quarters, 48 miles a day is ridiculously low. If the ship travels at something like 8 or 10 knots (miles/hour), which is easy
I'd recommend using 36 + 3D6 for estimating daily gain (noone uses GPS etc anway^^), and factor in some penalties for bad navigation or being shifted by winds and currents. In an emergency, have a storm blow the off-course
So basically... paizo consciously volunteered in the direction of keeping things simple, but of course, feel free to grab a book on seamanship and make the journey longer and more realistic. Of course, you can always consider the "island" to be wrongfully placed on some maps, prolonging the whole trip even more.. (say... have it lie off in some direction by like 40-100 miles ? But which one ? Do the Pirates know ?)
The real Carribean Sea spans roughly 1100 x 500 miles, and was historically linked to the North with the American Main (and offshore islands like the Bermudas, the Brazillian shores to the South and the coasts of Western Africa... so the whole thing expands even more.
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Or you could have a look at dead mans chest, its a good book and very useful. It has a rather more detailed view of ship travel using wind direction and some detailed weather tables to go with it but in order to use you need to know the season and you may need to keep track of time using a calender.
But to be honest factering in wind speed, currents and weather can just bog everything down with so much work for the GM that is it really worth it? After all its only a game its not meant to be a realistic sailing sim.
Thank you, I like the simple 36+3d6 knots idea and the idea that it's not mapped right, I already more or less take into account at least wind direction and weather. I just assume that with a DC 20 profession (sailor) or knowledge (geography) I allow that the party knows well enough the currents and stuff...
But I understand the possibility of it being simple poetic license...
Cheers!
In general, I agree that unless you have a lot of Age of Sail aficianados among your players, just having a random variable to the times is the way to go. Sailing isn't particularly predictable on the micro scale, and a lot of S&S happens among a bunch of islands in the tropics. Winds can be very fickle, so unless your players have a galley rowed by tireless zombies or some other equivalent of an outboard motor (a bound elemental, a high-level spellcaster with long-duration weather control spells, for instance), sailing time shouldn't be easily predictable.
Reefs should be common in these waters and not well-known (reward Profession/sailor or Knowledge/geography checks).
Calms can happen at the most inopportune moments and strand players a few miles from the easily visible action they want to get to, or make it hard for them to escape the natives paddling canoes (who rapidly get tired out if the PCs can somehow raise a wind...)
If you want more detail...
Sailing ships do NOT go at a constant speed, except perhaps when they're on the open ocean running with the trade winds (when they could easily be running at 6-15 miles/hour depending on design and season). Ship design and proper sail handling depending on the weather and sea condition is a huge issue.
Roughly speaking, figure that Paizo's average is if you're sailing across the wind. Figure out which way the winds usually blow around here. Going with the wind is double speed, sailing against it is MUCH slower (you have to tack back and forth to make progress, and it gets really difficult with some designs). Even at the height of the sailing ship era, trying to round Cape Horn against the wind could take weeks of back-breaking effort by the crew and you could lose days of progress in a few hours of the right type of storm.
Profession checks let you avoid obstacles (e.g., the reef) and take advantage of things (e.g., the currents) that are known about. This may take a while -- people had been sailing across the Atlantic for almost 300 years before Benjamin Franklin figured out that the Gulf Stream existed, though some use of it had been made before then. It's very possible to have PCs or even relatively skilled navigators not know about something -- i.e., anything you want to be a plot point, or make it a DC 30 check to reward players who really max out their skills.
I also like the 36 +3d6 knots per day idea ("Yoink! ;D) and agree that wind direction and local conditions (reefs, narrow channels, odd localized tides or currents, etc) should have an effect on play without miring the game down into sailing minutiae. (No offense intended if your group enjoys that sort of thing, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and keeping things moving and PC interest piqued in the first module can be difficult enough as it is.)
The Wormwood Mutiny seems to make it clear that anchoring at night is SOP while sailing among the islands, which makes sense given the treacherous local conditions and lack of visibility at night. This cuts a good chunk out of your distance traveled per day right there.
In the open sea you'll make better time (depending on the wind and direction traveled) if you sail 24 hours a day. However, that entails setting up a full system of sailing watches (which the AP modules kinda skip over). Or, you could furl sail and hove to at night (perhaps anchoring if the water is shallow enough to do so) but that's not particularly historical and leaves you at the mercy of wind, current and tide for 12 hours - who knows where you might be come sunup?
As to wind direction, given the counter-clockwise spin of the Eye of Abendengo I'm assuming the prevailing winds blow from NW to SE, although localized conditions or storms could modify this. Depending on which way your PCs are headed, this makes it easy enough to figure how they're sailing relative to the wind and their daily speed can be adjusted accordingly. If you want to get fancy , put together a simple d100 table for wind direction with the greater proportion of results being whatever the prevailing wind is but allowing for some random variation just to mess with your players. ;P
At the end of the day it's your campaign and your world, so if all else fails just wing it and say "This is how it is". Above all, have fun!
I also like the 36 +3d6 knots per day idea ("Yoink! ;D) and agree that wind direction and local conditions (reefs, narrow channels, odd localized tides or currents, etc) should have an effect on play without miring the game down into sailing minutiae. (No offense intended if your group enjoys that sort of thing, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and keeping things moving and PC interest piqued in the first module can be difficult enough as it is.)
yeah.... I know our group was sort of... pre-disposed towards sailing^^ Things did tend to become pretty nautical, but since nearly everyone at the table had some basic ideas (surfers, dinghymen and yachters all )it usually became great fun. nevermind that everyone dug into their Bolito, Hornblower etc . collections
In the open sea you'll make better time (depending on the wind and direction traveled) if you sail 24 hours a day. However, that entails setting up a full system of sailing watches (which the AP modules kinda skip over). Or, you could furl sail and hove to at night (perhaps anchoring if the water is shallow enough to do so) but that's not particularly historical and leaves you at the mercy of wind, current and tide for 12 hours - who knows where you might be come sunup?
Precisely.. nevermind that, in open water, spotting other ships, especially with low-light vision and against the horizon is easy enough. Especially with light (white) sails. Makes for good hunting.
for "easy wind direction" we simply used a D12 - each number providing a 30° arc of the compass, and had the basic rule that the wind would not shift by more than 3 arcs (90° degrees) each day. With a basic wind direction in most regions, which the wind would usually snap back to within a few days. Gave the crew some indication where they wanted to sail atm, and how things might turn out the coming few days.
And... spoilerish... wind becomes less of a factor later in the campaign, much of that depnding upon one's take on druids
yeah.... I know our group was sort of... pre-disposed towards sailing^^ Things did tend to become pretty nautical, but since nearly everyone at the table had some basic ideas (surfers, dinghymen and yachters all )it usually became great fun. nevermind that everyone dug into their Bolito, Hornblower etc . collections
LOL - I hear that! I'm no great expert, but the Age of Sail has always been one of my favorite historic periods, and this AP has had me dust off my copy of Wooden Ships and Iron Men and (finally) get around to reading Patrick O'Brien's "Aubrey and Maturin" series. Great stuff.
Your table sounds like a great place to play - having a shared field of expertise among players can really add a lot to a game. Have fun!