Hey.
I'm relatively new to the board; but have gamed for almost 33 years. I started with D&D when I was 10. I left it after about two years; moved on to systems that worked better for me at the time. I've played almost everything but generally kept to the BRP/Runequest rule set. It more accurately reflected combat for me. It addressed a number of problems I had with the D&D rule set and I was happy to stay with it for a while.
I, like many others have a personal game world that I have run games in for a while. The modifications of the rules are set to work in that world set and thus I have removed many of the things that are standard in the D&D and Pathfinder canon.
As with any house rule mod--it is a work in progress--but long time players--and specifically D&D players have been exceptionally keen about the mods having played them for almost 2 years now. I have two separate groups--both of whom choose this game over the others that are there to be played. So for want of a better thing to do--I'm going to post the modified rule set just for kicks. By the way--I know that much of this will run against the grain for a number of game purists. I can be a prickly SOB sometimes--but no offense is meant in any of this so ease up a bit. If you can find a real problem with the rules I'd be happy to hear it--always tweaking them you know.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Here's a tip....
Paragraphs... use them to break up your walls of text. It may not look like it should, but it will really help in both focusing your thoughts, and making them a lot more readable.
And also...try to lose the attitude... you're not the only old gamer in this crowd, and opening statements like "By the way--I know that much of this will run against the grain for a number of game purists." are setting up enough of an adversarial tone that many here may not even bother looking at your further posts. If people are reading the Homebrew forum it means that they're open to looking at new ways of doing things. If you want to vent about the gaming community or the players you encounter, there are more appropriate forum sections for this.
If you want to share something, just post what you need to post without editorializing. Your merits are in your work, not your posturing.
Saw the wall of text. Stopped reading.
What's the cliffs notes version of what you're asking/Saying?
He is prefacing his posting of his house rules with a very long history of his gaming experience.
okay--so the peeves first--or rather a run down of what didn't work for me in the basic pathfinder or D7D rules and why I wanted to change them. First the metagame--the world creation:
The games take place in a game world called the 13th Rune derived primarily from the Eternal Champion Series mixed with a Game of Thrones political system, a bit of the Thousandfold Thought, the Twilight of the Gods by Schmidt and some Dune. The Known World has emerged from two millenia of war and rule by the Empire of Inzhar--a race of humans who have ruled the world through their interbreeding with demons until the entire race uses the Half-Fiend template. About 500 years before the rest of the world threw off the yoke of the Empire in a series of rebellions led by the followers of the white prophet. While the common wisdom says that the sacrifice of many and the will of Var--the essence of order and law won the day--most people in the know understand that Inzhar is only sleeping--with eight claimants to the throne staring at each other in a detente that if broken would spell global war once again. Worship is of the Court of Misrule or of Var with the native or pagan religions following the 12 runes--this is the same source of arcane magic with wizards using the same basic elemental energies to construct their spells. So the differences:
1. Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and their ilk bother me. I'm happy enough in high fantasy campaigns specifically designed along a tolkienesque base is well and fine--but the kitchen sink cramming of every race and kind in a geographic area in every world with little deviation from the rule is not my cup of tea. The game world has only humans as characters--the Inzhari are NPCs. In addition the crayon box creature manifesting in the game--hill, storm, fire, red, green, black, white--etc etc...are a bit off for me as well so not in world. The creatures used are usually the only version of the creature in the game world. There is "a manticore". There is "a gorgon." There is "a red dragon"
2. The set planes of existence in D&D books are out as well. The sub elemental domain of muck or what have you isn't a thing is system. This is handled by the concept of the runes and the "power in the world" concept.
3. Magic is low to a large degree. The head of the greatest university of Arcane Magic in the Var following kingdoms is 11th level. Many of the common spells in the game have been removed from play based on some parameters. Clerics do not get every spell on the list, arcane magic removed much of the really oddly powerful spells. Resurrections, wishes, altering reality, playing with time, polymorphing, shrinking or growing or creating extra-dimensional spaces is right out--so is flying without either wings or some other justification. As well spell components are largely out of scope.
4. I agree that the level breaks (1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20) change the game significantly. The CR of creatures is built to include magic devices and abilities. The system mods take that into effect. Much of the really high level power is right out as it is game unbalancing. At higher level people turn into superheroes and that isn't really the fantasy rpg i was hoping to play. The sweet spot is 6-9 and materially power above that is limited.
5. Magical items of the +1 to +2 variety are generally available though never common. Things more powerful than that are artifacts and need to be quested for in game.
Quath wrote: He is prefacing his posting of his house rules with a very long history of his gaming experience. Context is important sometimes.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Have you considered going the E6 route? At that point the most mighty spells your casters will ever have are Fireball and Fly.
Rocketman1969 wrote: Quath wrote: He is prefacing his posting of his house rules with a very long history of his gaming experience. Context is important sometimes. I didn't mean to offend. Someone asked for a summary and I gave one.
On topic however, I do agree with LazarX's suggestion to look into something like E6.
But, since it seems you are just sharing what works for you and asking for advice about significant rules problems that may come about due to your houserule set and not asking for a similar system in which your game world could run, I'd say that what you have created would have no great impact on the way the game functions other than the mechanics you have pointed out.
Well, aside from the obvious changes to the (in)balance of the system (such as the cleric receiving less in the way of class features due to having the whole spell list at his disposal.) But, I'm pretty sure those changes were intentional.
LazarX wrote: Have you considered going the E6 route? At that point the most mighty spells your casters will ever have are Fireball and Fly. E8 might be more appropriate, if he considers 6-9 to be the "sweet spot." I agree with him about that, and I've found E8 to be more appealing for that than E6.
One question, Rocketman1969: Do you define character abilities by specification or by omission? That is, to do you say, "here are a list of the spells wizards get," or "here are a list of spells wizards don't get"? Doing the former, rather than the latter, makes for a more readable rules set when compiled together.
I am going to follow the bandwagon and say that you really ought to look at E6 or E8. It does most of what you are trying to do and you wouldnt have to look at as many spells in the future (if you ever include additional material from other books or 3rd parties).
1. In addition, i dont think the elimination of the non-human races is really a rule change. Thats just a setting choice. Lots of people dont like dwarves or halflings or whatever. Dont want them in your world? Not a big deal. The game gets along fine without them.
2. Not sure exactly where you are going with this. Are you assuming that the elemental planes are the source of power for elemental magic? I mean conjuration magic is technically supposed to bring an element from somewhere else, but it can just as easily be from a big bon fire in another region as from the elemental plane of fire.
3. As for magic, I think you might want to look at using sorcerors and oracles in place of clerics and wizards. Then just limit the options for spells known according to whatever it is you are looking for.\
4. Like others look at the E6 or E8 rules. Essentially its a homebrew ruleset where you essentially stop leveling at 6 or 8, and only gain feats afterwards with the option of gaining a handful of specific class abilities as custom feats. Thus you have complete control over what higher level abilities are available and you keep the characters in your sweet spot. For the most part in pathfinder E8 is pretty good since most classes get something cool at 8th level (sorcerors are probably the only ones that need a feat for their 9th level ability since 8th is kind of light).
5. Do E6 or E8 and this more or less remains not a problem. Its not till around 8th level that characters really 'need' signficant amounts of magic items to keep up with the math of the system. In particular E6 really works with almost no magic items.
i have looked into E6 and E8. I appreciate the heads up though--but--this is what I've been playing for a while. People like it. Sooo...
1. There are no experience points. They have been replaced by character points.
You gain character points by
1. Good role-playing that advances the adventure
2. Following your expanded alignment
3. Being clever or exceptional use of skills and abilities
4. killing things. the cr of the creature - the character level should be the base reward. CRs at equal or less may or may not get 1 CP.
CP's can be spent to do the following:
1. purchase feats at a cost of 5
2. level 15 points per level to fifth, 30 per level from 6th to 10th etc
3. add d4 to any d20 roll
4. Convert hit point damage to soak.
5. Purchase other class abilities.
2. There are only four classes. Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
If you want a ranger or a paladin--swap out the feats and build it. Buy additional feats with character points. It is allowable at a cost.
This makes the build very flexible and cuts down on the world specific aspects of many of the expanded classes.
3. Hit points are changed to the following.
The standard rolled hit points are called Soak. This is a combination of toughness, balance, savvy, experience. You can take all of your soak without penalty--you can gain it all back with a nights rest. You can have 400 points of them and it's all good. Because once your soak is gone you start taking hit point damage.
Hit point damage is equal to the characters Constitution. once your soak is gone you take hit point damage. Each hit point you take gives you a -1 to every d20 roll until it is healed.
Critical hits do damage to soak as normal but do the multiplier in hit point damage as well. If tyou take hit point damage you need to roll a fortitude save at DC10+the hit points taken. if you fail you are bleeding or are stunned.
Falls do half damage to soak, half damage to hit points. So your 300 hit point killing machine fighter with the 19 CON still can die from a 40 foot fall.
Ron Lundeen wrote: LazarX wrote: Have you considered going the E6 route? At that point the most mighty spells your casters will ever have are Fireball and Fly. E8 might be more appropriate, if he considers 6-9 to be the "sweet spot." I agree with him about that, and I've found E8 to be more appealing for that than E6.
One question, Rocketman1969: Do you define character abilities by specification or by omission? That is, to do you say, "here are a list of the spells wizards get," or "here are a list of spells wizards don't get"? Doing the former, rather than the latter, makes for a more readable rules set when compiled together. I'm playing it by ear to be fair. If the player can rationally justify the inclusion of a spell by effect then I allow it. As an example I disallowed levitate. My wizards player coached it in terms of elemental air being used as a column. I agreed but required a concentration roll to take action during the spell duration.
4. Spell casters must roll to cast their spells either spellcraft for arcane or Knowledge; religion for clerics.
4. Active alignment. you choose definitions for both axes of the alignment and as you play them you get points. You can get situation bonuses or minuses based on the characteristic. a Neutral good character might have Egalitarian and fair as active alignment. A chaotic evil character might have curious and sadistic. This really helps guide players in role playing situations.
5. Optional death: Becasue there is no resurrection in game I have implemented an optional death rule. If you go below your hit points you can come back with a permanent wound. Each point below zero costs you a permanent stat point loss, 3 points of skill, 1 AC, -1 across all saves, 5 move speed or some combination thereof.
Everything else falls out from those modifications. Energy drain does not effect levels--it can drain CP's into negatives.
Wizards do not get automatic spells--they need to track down tutors or find spell books or research them.
Some feats no longer exist--some feats have been created to allow class specific feats to be purchased.
for the most part the subject material works quite well and there have been no real objections to any of it--with the exception of the wizard who really wants to try and break the system and can't at present.
Kolokotroni wrote: I am going to follow the bandwagon and say that you really ought to look at E6 or E8. It does most of what you are trying to do and you wouldnt have to look at as many spells in the future (if you ever include additional material from other books or 3rd parties).
1. In addition, i dont think the elimination of the non-human races is really a rule change. Thats just a setting choice. Lots of people dont like dwarves or halflings or whatever. Dont want them in your world? Not a big deal. The game gets along fine without them.
2. Not sure exactly where you are going with this. Are you assuming that the elemental planes are the source of power for elemental magic? I mean conjuration magic is technically supposed to bring an element from somewhere else, but it can just as easily be from a big bon fire in another region as from the elemental plane of fire.
3. As for magic, I think you might want to look at using sorcerors and oracles in place of clerics and wizards. Then just limit the options for spells known according to whatever it is you are looking for.\
4. Like others look at the E6 or E8 rules. Essentially its a homebrew ruleset where you essentially stop leveling at 6 or 8, and only gain feats afterwards with the option of gaining a handful of specific class abilities as custom feats. Thus you have complete control over what higher level abilities are available and you keep the characters in your sweet spot. For the most part in pathfinder E8 is pretty good since most classes get something cool at 8th level (sorcerors are probably the only ones that need a feat for their 9th level ability since 8th is kind of light).
5. Do E6 or E8 and this more or less remains not a problem. Its not till around 8th level that characters really 'need' signficant amounts of magic items to keep up with the math of the system. In particular E6 really works with almost no magic items.
thanks--i realized it was a setting change. Just wanted to gripe a bit. as for 2--it is another world specific reference --there is always an abyss--and it always has this particular demon lord in it...what i meant was the standard planar set up in most D7D based products isn't in the setting.3 Wizards work in the system--there are restrictions but there are also benefits.(no components--no need to memorize specific spells)
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