Jump into action? Or build suspense? Advice needed for homebrew.


Homebrew and House Rules


So I've posted hints on the story. Essentially the proteans introduce a gem of chaos to the world, (it acts like the 'Shikon Jewel' from inuyasha, increases power but grants insanity and corrupts.

Essentially, when should the jewel be introduced?

A- Its on earth when the game begins. There are already several 'corrupted' beings. Story jumps in fast. They might have limited knowedge

B- It arrives almost immediately. The pcs pretty much have to figure it out like everyone else.

C- It arrives after several sessions of trivial quests. I prefer this one, but I'm having trouble with the "placeholder quests". I think it would be fun to rp an "comet" crashing into the planet and magically influencing the weather, etc.


What sort of characters are in the adventure, and what would get them interested in this jewel? Would seeing a comet or experiencing weird weather be enough to get them to go find this thing? Perhaps one of the spellcasters is researching these strange corrupted beings and is trying to find the source, or the group could be off doing some completely separate task when all of a sudden a wild man runs out of the forest and attacks them, and they find this gem on his body.

Also, once this gem is introduced, how is the story going to wrap around it? I need more information if I'm to help you out with this.


Perhaps a benevolent but powerful npc wizard or cleric has somehow gained possession of the jewel, and enlists the adventurers to research a way to destroy or contain it. Likely at some stage they end up fighting their insane former employer unless they can find a way to save him.


Well, the pc's backstories led them to meet up with a "Seer" oracle for their own reasons.

A dark tapestry cult released a wicked disease (think a temporal mummy rot) that enabled the gem to be introduced to the universe. (by hurting humanoids belief in the gods- see below)

The gems were created my proteans in the hope that the raw power will cause wars and massive loss of life. (The proteans want to destroy the universe, but the Gods hold them at bay in another dimension. The Gods power rely on believers and the faithful, so if enough humanoids are killed, they can come through. The power corrupts all who face it, but the "Seer" wants to use them to become a demigod to "protect" the world.)

If the gems are all posessed by different people, or fall into the wrong hands, the proteans could be released on the world.

I have some trivial quests to introduce characters, but they feel empty.

Perhaps an alchemist sends word to the seer that he has spotted the object through a telescope... He becomes insane before the travelers get there, just from staring at the gem for long periods.

It's a bit lovecraft-inspired. I've sort of left things open that a single gem or two arrived early.. Perhaps less a comet and more of a meteor shower...

I like the ideas so far. I also need some trivial quests for some storyline hints..

Integral plot developments that I want the pcs to have a chance at discovering:

The Oracle believes she is chaotic good, but is really chaotic neutral/ turns chaotic evil.
(She's very manipulative. She claims to be a (seer) oracle, but is really Dark Tapestry Oracle 2/Psion 4) I'd like to come up with some enemies of the oracle (maybe a religious cult) that's not evil, but it takes initiative (rather, investigating little hints I might give) to realise such.

The gem can also taint the ground and twist reality. I want them to find a gem that's corrupting the city they're in (The city is almost like the movie "Silent Hill", but without the twist ending.)

All ideas are welcome. I'm trying to make this a horror sandbox-style campaign, but they'll follow the oracle until they have a reason not to.

I love fleshing out simple ideas. I'm aiming for less of a hack and slash, and more of a hp lovecraft-style suspense and investigative style. (Still 2-3 combats a session, out of maybe 5 confrontations that I consider "opportunities for combat". My pcs are smart.. They run a lot.)


Corruption and taint seem more loke the work of Evik outsiders to me. Proteans would be focused on making things ubruly and destructive, like wild thunderstorms, sextions of land floating into the sky, and creatures mutating randonly (equally likely to be ebenficial and hurtful). A Silent Hill sort of corruption would be most lije the work of Daemons, who want to destroy life out of a contempt for it, while Proteans sinply want to return the multiverse to its original, chaotic state.

Also, be wary of calling any part of your story "trivial". If you create quests with that thought, your players will find them trivial as well, and that is bad. Not everything they do will be as dangerous or epic, but it should all feel important.


There are a lot of aberrations and fey...

Any ideas on quests?


Think about the adventure as a three act structure, and dont worry too much about planning details until you get close to them. An exanple:

Prologue: Players are called on by a summoner friend they all have in common who thinks he found something important. When they get there, he's been murdered and the party has to put down his Unfettered Eidolon (a creature you can make as powerful or weak as needed). The object he spoke of is jowhere to be found.

Act One: What happened to him, and where is the gem? Players gather clues that lead to rumors of a secret cult of chaos that works in the shadows beneath the city, who may have been enemies of the summoner. Players journey down into the undercity (encountering some an ooze and mayve a warren of ratfolk along the way) and eventuakly encounter the cultists, defeat their leader and steal the gem, but not before the leader tells them its too late.

Act Two: The players try to figure out what this object is. They go on a brief journey to find the summoner's old apprentice, who tells them it is tied to the proteans. Ehile on this journey, the notice the weather and landscaoe beginning to change and become more wild. The only way to destroy it is to find an Inevitable (LN outsider) to destroy it. They are presented with several options on how to go about it.

Act Three: The adventure becomes a race against time as the world becomea more and more chaotic. Voidworms start appearing frequently, and once on their journey thy encounter a stronger protean. By the time they find the Inevitable, the world is a mess. They enliat his help, but not before a powerdul protean is unleashed on the material plane. With the Inevitabke's help, the heroes must defeat the powerful outaider.


I had a similiar idea about an alchemist (the one who spotted the gem) going mad and granting his "twin" familiar traits, him getting posessed by his twin's desire to build a a new host. (The alchemist was a internal chemist/vivisectionist).
basically the alch would chop up humans and animals and turn them into "living undead". At the final confrontation they either:
1. Save the alchemist and kill the familiartwin.
2. Kill the alchemist (or he dies of old age) and the familiar escapes in a unfinished host abomination. (and needs the gem to infuse its life to the host and become immortal)
3. Kill both, and find the alchemist's notes.

I like the summoner idea a lot too. I'll try to think of a way to work that in.

Act 3 is very close to what I already had in mind, but I like your ideas a lot. I was already tossing around using an inevitable, but your ideas are logical. They made my mind up.

The pcs are a sorceror (a former member and escapee from the protean culk and a neutral good monk on a quest for knowledge, researching the disease I mentioned.


Obky 2 pcs? You'll need to make an NPC or to to accompany them temprarily. A devoted caster and melee isnt well rounded enough to take on any real threats. Throw in a wilderness guide or friend of one of the other NPCs to fill things out. Yoy'll need sone who can heal a little at least. A monk can deal decent damage and take hits okay, but without a healer they're both screwed.

You could even introduce some non-humanoid conpanions, low CR outsiders that want to foil the protean's plans.


Gestalt rules for 2 players - even if they have an eidolon / animal companion that will barely bring the action economy into line for the norm.


They travel with the oracle and her 'posse'. The oracle, an archeologist bard, a brute of a thief, a paladin, a barbarian, and probably a summoner. (for the idea above).

A lot of the 'quests' by the oracle will revolve around an important decision. Which npc to bring?

They all have plot-related info as well, that they'll only discuss when they're alone with the pcs (and asked).

One is a spy for a lawful neutral sect, one is chaotic neutral and wants the gem for himself, one is a former enemy of the oracle that was permenantly charmed/dominated, etc (hello, antimagic field/dispel magic)

The pcs will level very fast up to level 6-8 or so, and then they have a shot at finding out the oracle's intentions.

There will also be times where the group as a whole is attacked,and the party seperated.


Oh, as far as pacing - do you want an 'action movie' vibe or a slow build into horror and madness? The former, just set the scene and have at it!


Redchigh wrote:

They travel with the oracle and her 'posse'. The oracle, an archeologist bard, a brute of a thief, a paladin, a barbarian, and probably a summoner. (for the idea above).

A lot of the 'quests' by the oracle will revolve around an important decision. Which npc to bring?

They all have plot-related info as well, that they'll only discuss when they're alone with the pcs (and asked).

One is a spy for a lawful neutral sect, one is chaotic neutral and wants the gem for himself, one is a former enemy of the oracle that was permenantly charmed/dominated, etc (hello, antimagic field/dispel magic)

The pcs will level very fast up to level 6-8 or so, and then they have a shot at finding out the oracle's intentions.

There will also be times where the group as a whole is attacked,and the party seperated.

That is a lot of NPCs to be following around the party. Be careful of that, having so many individual characters in a combat situation can really slow things down, and end up with your players waiting for 5 minutes to take their 30 second turn while the GM controls a host of different characters/creatures and essentially plays with himself. Even with a very experience GM, it can bog down the flow of turns a lot.

If I were you I would restrict it to 1-2 character that participate in combat and maybe a couple non-combat NPCs if you really want a bigger group (an ordinary blacksmith or archaeologist with no PC class levels).


The "battles" involving the whole posse will either be short (1 round or less), running away and hiding, or the group will be seperated, and only the pcs will actually roll, and npcs will be out of sight.. There won't be any 8-person battles....


I'm glad to hear that. My one concern is making sure you players don't start to feel resentment toward these folks if they seem perfectly capable of defending the group but keep running away, or wondering why they travel with the party but are conveniently absent during battles. You can avoid this if you frame everything right, but it's something to keep in mind. Also, if one of your players is playing a diplomatic character, be aware he might try to convince the posse members to fight him him.


If he happens to roll crazy high on a Diplomacy check to get one of them to accompany the group and the character still doesn't agree, the player might feel like you're blocking him and wonder why the posse is there in the first place.

Make sure you aren't trying to force your own characters into a story that should be for and about the PCs.


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A high diplomacy check *might* work, but the oracle is a constant target for assassins, the posse is mostly there to protect her. If the PCs convince several npcs to occampany them, I'll probably have the npcs they didn't bring die in an attack, andthey have to figure out how to drag around an unconscious oracle. The npcs won't level up, and the players will likely pass them in just a few sessions. They are free to notice the oracle's alignment and leave. (Out of character, Ive told them things are often not what they seem.)

I'll admit, I'm an experienced writer and inexperienced dm, but I've also made notes on videogames I plan on making that are "sandboxy". I'm dming the game almost like a video game with "cinematic" elements for story purposes.

Most (70% of each session) are pc only, with 10-15% with only an npc or two. The whole posse is present mostly for meals and "down time", which is when the cinematics happen. Such as:

Spoiler:

Resting after the PC's thorough search of the city, the entire group enjoys a fine meal.
Before the npcs can take their first bite, the oracle stands up and sounds a silent alarm of some sort (minor prestidigitation, the candles and torch flames shift to a cool blue.) And she turns to the PCs with a stern look. "Hide."

One of the non-combat npcs flips the table the pcs are sitting at. Simultaniously, there are brief yells and the sounds of battle from outside, but they stop as suddenly as they began.Then there is loud pounding at the door to the sanctum.
As the non-combat npc (chef or wench probably) pulls the pcs behind the table, the iron-banded door explodes into splinters, and a heavily armed warrior (paladin) charges in.

If the pcs peek over the table, they see the warrior with a pulsating symbol on his jet-black armor.

A few NPCs rush to defend, but are (mostly harmlessly) deflected. (The 'enemy' is lawful good if detect alignment is on.)

(Perception check) The oracle raises her hand towards the intruder, and looks puzzled.

One lucky blow from an npc stikes the intruder's armor (or just the helm), and the helm/or armor vanishes. (detect magic would recognise it as a modified version of shadow conjuration)

The 'paladin' rushes across the room towards the oracle. (the pcs get an AoO if they are watching/standing.)
When/if the paladin reaches the oracle, her readied action activates. (a touch attack, I forget what I named the homebrew affect... Essentially it does 1d6 damage to wis and int, and 'steals' the thoughts of the target. For the cinematic, its insta-death to the paladin. Detect magic and knowledge arcane DC 10 reveals the evil nature of the spell, detect magic and perception 15 reveals a briefly glowing chaotic gem on her body.)

This triggers an espionage quest for the pcs to investigate the invader's "evil cult".

Although there are important details within, the whole event happens in less than 5 minutes, and less than 10 minutes realtime. (Since the sound of my rolling dice are for atmosphere, the outcomes are predestined.)

I also have contingincies for the pcs rushing in (the pcs are fighting a monkish paladin with AC 22 who prefers non-lethal damage), critting on the AoO (possibly incapping the invader who actually has pretty low hp, leading to his imprisonment and interrogation, followed by the oracle using her touch attack anyway), failing checks (they can talk to the npcs laterand ask) or hiding and seeing nothing (see previous)


Hold on, why would they leave when they noticed the oracle's alignment? Is she evil? If she's evil, why is she being accompanied by a paladin?


I'm a little confused, I think you left some important details out. The paladin is LG, but he's attacking the players and using shadow conjuration (which a paladin does not have access to)?

Why is the oracle just killing this person outright? Are all of the players okay with this, especially since his alignment detected as good and he was clearly udner soem sort of compulsion? Don't put the players in a position where their characters have to do something that goes against their alignment. It will either hurt roleplaying (by forcing them to act a certain way) or or hurt the adventure (by making a player go against the group).

Where are the other "posse" members during this scene? Did they simply vanish for the duration of the fight? They're all player classes that can handle themselves in a fight.

Videogames can be a source of inspiration, but be wary of approaching Pathfinder with a videogame mentality. You can't have npcs and characters pop in and out for "cinematics". If a player asks "Where's the barbarian?" and you have to say "He's disappeared for the fight", you are going to run into problems.


I may have left some important details out in the above scenario.

The paladin is working for a neutral-good sect, that is potrayed as evil by the oracle.
The oracle is CN, but views the NG cult as an enemy. (she values power above all else, and she has a 'gem'. Its the source of her psionic power.)

The paladin belongs to a sect who's leade also has a 'gem' that grants modified shadow conjuration powers (even to the point of being able to make "shadow armor", which the paladin was wearing. When I use the term 'sect' and 'cult', they do not neccesarily reflect actual deities, only fanatic loyalty or idolisation.

If the invader is allowed to speak, it might blow her cover. Only a few npcs know her true nature. She slides to CE over the course of the campaign. The paladin working for her is also being decieved, but isn't very bright. NPCs won't disappear mid-combat, but for story reasons they have better things to do occasionally. (other missions, guarding the oracle, etc.)


Any other advice? Feel free to point out plot holes or confusing elements.


I think you might be trying to put too many plot elements into one adventure.

The gem alone was a great adventure seed you could use to make a concise, compelling adventure. The evil-shifting Oracle that convinces the party that the good guys are bad is another. The shadow paladin is kind of odd... as a paladin he would be opposed to using powers that come from a chaos gem.

Since you're new at this, you should really stick with something simple. Do simple adventures with relatively little planning, giving you room to practice improvising and making an adventure that fits your players more. You seem like you're trying to plan everything out meticulously, which is a bad idea. The more you plan, the more disappointed you'll be when your players decide to go off the rails (which WILL HAPPEN if you make rails) and the less prepared you will be to improvise. It's also very difficult to keep track of all these characters and details when you're new.

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