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Oracles, Deities, and God-Associated Spells


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.

I'm cross-polinating this with the rules forum in that I'm more interested in a PFS specific answer if available:

The God-Associated spells like defending bone and channel vigor have deities next to them in parentheses. The author said on another forum that his intention was that those spells could only be cast by followers of that deity, but I'm not sure if that is RAW, and if PFS goes by RAW or RAI in a case like this.

The Oracles mention they tend to follow multiple gods that share beliefs with them. Does this make them followers of those associated with their mystery, or just any that they choose. For example, my Flame Oracle is respectful of many religions, and pays homage to various gods, but particularly associates herself with Sarenrae. Could she take something like Defending Bone or Channel Vigor? Or is that not allowed?

Any insight is appreciated, thanks!

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Well, you can't really play an oracle like it's intended in PFS due to the whole having to be one step away from your god in alignment rule. You can't be an oracle of fire and pay homage to all the gods listed in that mystery, for example, because Asmodeus is LE and Sarenrae is NG. It's impossible to be one step away from both without being evil and you can't be evil in pfs. I usually just pick one deity to be the sort of patron for my oracles. I think that you could say you pay homage to all of them but this particular one is your patron and that would give you access to the patron's spells (but not the spells of other gods listed in the mystery)

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PRD wrote:
Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.

could you please link the spells your looking at?

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Valmoon wrote:
PRD wrote:
Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.

could you please link the spells your looking at?

Couldn't find it in the PRD on this site, but both spells are PFS legal by the Alternate Sources.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defending-bone

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/channel-vigor

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Anoka

teribithia9 wrote:
Well, you can't really play an oracle like it's intended in PFS due to the whole having to be one step away from your god in alignment rule. You can't be an oracle of fire and pay homage to all the gods listed in that mystery, for example, because Asmodeus is LE and Sarenrae is NG. It's impossible to be one step away from both without being evil and you can't be evil in pfs. I usually just pick one deity to be the sort of patron for my oracles. I think that you could say you pay homage to all of them but this particular one is your patron and that would give you access to the patron's spells (but not the spells of other gods listed in the mystery)

That's not specifically true. While an Oracle could pick a specific god to pay homage to, they do not need to pay homage to their entire mystery mini-pantheon.

As a matter of fact, they could pick a deity not on the mystery mini-pantheon if they wanted.

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DrakeRoberts wrote:
Valmoon wrote:
PRD wrote:
Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.

could you please link the spells your looking at?

Couldn't find it in the PRD on this site, but both spells are PFS legal by the Alternate Sources.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/defending-bone

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/channel-vigor

I personally wouldn't allow them for organized play unless you could show me were on piazo's site they say you could and you would need a print out of how the spell works just encase there is confusion. However, by rules as written Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components. there for you could not believe in a divine power and still be able to cast spells like the two listed.

edit: thank you for the links by the way.

Osirion **

They are both legal according to the additional resources page.

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Gods and Magic:

Spells: Abadar's truthtelling, blessing of the watch, burst of glory, channel the gift, channel vigor, Deadeye's arrow, defending bone, fallback strategy, Gorum's armor, Gozreh's trident, greater infernal healing, infernal healing, pick your poison, poisoned egg, shield of the dawnflower, traveling dream, unbreakable heart, waters of Lamashtu

Like Valmoon said, you either need the book or a watermarked printout in case the judge needs to see the spell.

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
noswald wrote:

They are both legal according to the additional resources page.

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Gods and Magic:

Spells: Abadar's truthtelling, blessing of the watch, burst of glory, channel the gift, channel vigor, Deadeye's arrow, defending bone, fallback strategy, Gorum's armor, Gozreh's trident, greater infernal healing, infernal healing, pick your poison, poisoned egg, shield of the dawnflower, traveling dream, unbreakable heart, waters of Lamashtu
Like Valmoon said, you either need the book or a watermarked printout in case the judge needs to see the spell.

O I love how the find function didn't grab them...

then yea i'd allow them. :)

Osirion **

No worries Valmoon, I figured something like that happened. Just trying to help out.

Silver Crusade **

They're legal for PFS play, but do you have to be a worshiper of the appropriate god to use them? As a cleric, I know you do, but what about oracles? That's the question.

I'm also a little confused on how oracles and deity worship work, especially in PFS. I'm making my first oracle, and he doesn't know what god cursed him with divine power. He just wants to be a warrior, and accepts that the magic that he was cursed with is always going to be part of him, so he uses it, as well. But he doesn't thank any god for it, and really does see it as a curse.

Behind the scenes, I actually haven't decided yet which deity cursed him. But I also haven't picked a mystery for sure yet, though I've got it narrowed down to Battle and Metal, since I want him to be a front line melee combatant. I'm just trying to learn about the class, so I haven't finalized any details yet.

Osirion **

Good point Fromper. Looking at the Oracle (not having made one yet), I would assume that the deity would have to be a part of the mystery in order to get the spells. Since Gods and Magic came out before UM (I think), this probably wasn't thought about for the Oracle (someone correct me if I'm wrong). This looks like we could use an FAQ answer from Mike/Mark on this to see what the Campaign ruling is.

EDIT: Anyone able to find the FAQ page from the PFS main page? I may have failed my spot check, but I can't locate it.

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html

under the spells section

PRD wrote:


Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.

Shadow Lodge ***

Fromper wrote:


I'm also a little confused on how oracles and deity worship work, especially in PFS. I'm making my first oracle, and he doesn't know what god cursed him with divine power. He just wants to be a warrior, and accepts that the magic that he was cursed with is always going to be part of him, so he uses it, as well. But he doesn't thank any god for it, and really does see it as a curse.

Cleric: Dali Lamma, The Pope, Temple Priest in Shinto or Hindu setting, your local pastor.

Oracle: Joan of Arc, Moses, The Blues Brothers (multiclass Bard), many types of shamans, particulary the vision quest and possesion types.

In your case, part of the 'curse' might be acting in a certain way at certain times, basically, getting an 'insight', and acting on it, deciding something is important, etc.

Hope that helps.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Valmoon wrote:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html

under the spells section

PRD wrote:


Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.

That doesn't answer the question of whether or not spells that are tied to a specific deity are knowable by an oracle. For clerics, they have to worship that deity to have access to that spell. Does the same rule apply to oracles?

Lantern Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Fromper wrote:
Valmoon wrote:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html

under the spells section

PRD wrote:


Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.
That doesn't answer the question of whether or not spells that are tied to a specific deity are knowable by an oracle. For clerics, they have to worship that deity to have access to that spell. Does the same rule apply to oracles?

I'm not sure in oracles case but, I would think so because of were its placed.

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