Places of Worship

[Skwiziks]

Even without the Cleric class, the Gods and Goddesses of Golarion have a large influence on the world and the daily lives of its inhabitants. The GW blog has discussed player built structures, but I am wondering about the benefits of churches, temples, and shrines. These structures could provide bonuses to PC’s or the common folk (NPC’s) in small but significant ways. Some thoughts:

1.) Churches could be a way to grant bonuses to players who give proper homage. By going to a church and providing a sacrifice appropriate for that deity (money, food, objects, sentient beings, etc.) the player or players could receive the deity’s blessing in the form of an in-game bonus. Benefits would be minor but have a long duration, and could include increases to damage, movement speed, fast travel speed, stealth, etc. Churches would be built and maintained by players. This would probably be the largest structure that could be built outside of a Settlement.

2.) Temples could be a way to grant bonuses to entire companies/alliances or an entire hex. Only one Temple could be built per hex and per company/alliance, and could only be constructed as part of a Settlement. (Other options for less civilization-friendly deities may be appropriate.) Benefits could apply to players in the form of damage bonuses and what not, but depending on the deity, could affect the entire hex instead. Benefits to the hex could include a buff to the common folk’s production speed, a greater yield from harvesting, or an increased presence of game and/or monsters.

3.) Shrines are the smallest place of worship, and are unique in that they can be built away from civilization. The Green Faith has their wilderness shrines and Desna has her roadside shrines. Shrines grant the weakest boon, but require no sacrifice other than a brief prayer.

4.) Depending on how the alignment system is handled, it may be an interesting choice to have your alignment shift depending on which deities you worship. Someone seeking redemption could speed the process along by visiting a Temple (or Church?) of a good-aligned deity. Though I would not expect worshipping the Gods to change alignments significantly, small shifts could be a useful option for some players.

[Obsidaeus]

Sounds like a great idea to me.

[Forencith]

Agreed.

[Quandary]

diety linked churches sound like an interesting effect that's parallel to guilds/kingdoms.

[Sumutherguy]

Do we want religion to be dumbed down to the point of "pray, get buffs"? I feel it would be more true to the setting to have rewards from gods based upon player actions that fit within their portfolio and are done in their names. Helping farmers with goblin raids near one's home in the name of Erastil, for example, may get rewards from the diety, either temporary or permanent. Otherwise, deities and religious devotion may be reduced to a chore that folks do before hard dungeons.

[Icyshadow]

Sumutherguy wrote:

Do we want religion to be dumbed down to the point of "pray, get buffs"? I feel it would be more true to the setting to have rewards from gods based upon player actions that fit within their portfolio and are done in their names. Helping farmers with goblin raids near one's home in the name of Erastil, for example, may get rewards from the diety, either temporary or permanent. Otherwise, deities and religious devotion may be reduced to a chore that folks do before hard dungeons.

Both you and the OP make good points, but I'm not sure if I could pick a side. I'd say sometimes, the deities just might give a small helping to someone who truly goes through a bit of trouble to help their fellow followers and such.

[Finn The Human]

I find the OP's ideas very interesting. I'd love to see the gods of Golarion play as large a role in PFO as they are implied to play in the lives of its NPC inhabitants. I'm not totally sure about buffs for just anyone--maybe only for more religious classes, or maybe not. However, there should definitely be some kind of incentive for behaving in a manner consistent with your character's deity's goals.

Perhaps high-level holy classes could even receive divine guidance?

[Skwiziks]

Sumutherguy wrote:

Do we want religion to be dumbed down to the point of "pray, get buffs"? I feel it would be more true to the setting to have rewards from gods based upon player actions that fit within their portfolio and are done in their names. Helping farmers with goblin raids near one's home in the name of Erastil, for example, may get rewards from the diety, either temporary or permanent. Otherwise, deities and religious devotion may be reduced to a chore that folks do before hard dungeons.

Good point. I was thinking more on a mechanical level than an RP one. I like the sound of that system, it could be used as "Faction Quests" wherein working for a deity grants you specific bonuses. My only concern is that it doesn't involve the player community very much, and would rely on NPC's instead.

And religion becoming a chore is certainly a problem. The benefits could be mitigated by limiting the duration such that multiple blessings would be hard to come by, seeking favor from rival deities would negate all blessings, etc. And I don't advocate "pray, get buffs" with the exception of smalls shrines that would grant a very small bonus. Anything else should require a noteworthy sacrifice.

Still, on a mechanical level, it's akin to a vending machine. Hmmm....

[Finn The Human]

I just want to take a moment to clarify what I meant by divine guidance in my previous post. I'm basically thinking of a situation months or more after release, where the developers write a few examples of divine guidance for each deity and then famous, high-level paladins or clerics might get them under special conditions, e.g. while praying at a significant temple/shrine. These instances of divine inspiration would be unique. That character would be the only one in the game-world to receive that particular message. It would relate directly to the goals of their deity, and it would be an interesting way for GW to nudge the community in a desirable direction, sans fiat.

[Skwiziks]

Now that would be cool, though perhaps also a logistical nightmare.

[Sreq]

Finn The Human wrote:

I just want to take a moment to clarify what I meant by divine guidance in my previous post. I'm basically thinking of a situation months or more after release, where the developers write a few examples of divine guidance for each deity and then famous, high-level paladins or clerics might get them under special conditions, e.g. while praying at a significant temple/shrine. These instances of divine inspiration would be unique. That character would be the only one in the game-world to receive that particular message. It would relate directly to the goals of their deity, and it would be an interesting way for GW to nudge the community in a desirable direction, sans fiat.

Finn, this seems amazing. If the devs put this in the game, I would make a holy class simply to be able to hear from the gods. I would want to know beforehand though, if it would be a pre-scripted message, or if it would require someone at GW to tailor it to my character specifically.

[JakBlitz]

I like the idea of the churches in a settlement determining its alignment. I mean if people set up a bunch of unholy shrines in your city its hardly going to be LG unless the major churches are aligned that way.