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# Lance Critical

### Rules Questions

A player in a game of mine just rolled a critical hit with his lance while charging on a horse. So, would he triple the extra dice from charging with a lance for a total of 6d8 damage?

In PFRPG if you are multiplying multiples, you actually add instead of multiply. Thus charging lance = x2 and crit = x3, total is x5, not x6.

OK, thank you. For some reason that confuses me beyond measure.

Actually it would be x4. Each multiplier is essentially how many times you add damage, INCLUDING the damage you are normally entitled to. Thus, x2 means you deal normal damage, plus normal damage a second time. x3 means you deal your base damage, then twice again.

martinaj wrote:
Actually it would be x4. Each multiplier is essentially how many times you add damage, INCLUDING the damage you are normally entitled to. Thus, x2 means you deal normal damage, plus normal damage a second time. x3 means you deal your base damage, then twice again.

But the lance is already X3 on a critical hit in addition to the double damage from charging on a horse.

Martinaj is correct.

On a charge you deal double damage (normal damage + 1 Bonus Die)

On a crit you deal x3 damage (normal damage + 2 Bonus die)

On a charge crit you deal the combination of bonus dice (Normal Damage + 1 Bonus die for charging and +2 Bonus Die for critting)

Alright, look at it like this. When you crit with a normal weapon, you deal double damage - you add the weapon damage one more time.

When you crit with an axe, triple damage mean you add damage two more times.

The fact that you're adding, not multiplying, is the key here. The multipliers of "x2" and "x3" BOTH have the initial damage figured into them, but it should only apply once. Thus, when determining how many times you add damage, subtract one from the multiplier of each instance, then add those on top of your base damage.

Ahh, OK, I see. Thank you. I think they made this rule too confusing.

Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Note that the following occurs if you have spirited charge and crit.

Spirited Charge : 3x Damage from Lance (Base + 2d8)
Critical : 3x Damage from Lance (Base + 2d8)
Spirited Charge Critical : 5x Damage from Lance (Base + 2d8 + 2d8)

Note that you add the strength bonus multiple times as well.

So, if the cavalier (I'm assuming it's a Cavalier or Dragoon, applies both ways) had a +1 Shocking Lance, and an 18 strength, then his base damage with the lance is 1d8 (Lance) + 1d6 (Shocking) + 1 (Enhancement) + 4 (Strength, or + 6 if he's using it two-handed). I'll assume he's using it one-handed on horseback.

Spirited Charge : 3d8 + 1d6 + 15
Critical : 3d8 + 1d6 + 21 (Note, assuming he's not on horseback and using two hands)
Spirited Charge Critical : 5d8 + 1d6 + 25

I recently one-shotted an ogre with a critical spirited charge hit with my halfling cavalier. :) So I've gotten good at this.

mdt wrote:

Spirited Charge : 3d8 + 1d6 + 15

Critical : 3d8 + 1d6 + 21 (Note, assuming he's not on horseback and using two hands)
Spirited Charge Critical : 5d8 + 1d6 + 25

I'm not certain I understand where you are getting the 15 on the Spirited charge. Is that the +1 enhancement +4 Str multiplied X3? That seems confusing since they indicate that you are supposed to add the extra damage.

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Deleon wrote:
Ahh, OK, I see. Thank you. I think they made this rule too confusing.

It was my cavalier that did the crit in Deleon's game. Thanks for clearing this up!

Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deleon wrote:
mdt wrote:

Spirited Charge : 3d8 + 1d6 + 15

Critical : 3d8 + 1d6 + 21 (Note, assuming he's not on horseback and using two hands)
Spirited Charge Critical : 5d8 + 1d6 + 25
I'm not certain I understand where you are getting the 15 on the Spirited charge. Is that the +1 enhancement +4 Str multiplied X3? That seems confusing since they indicate that you are supposed to add the extra damage.

Whenever you have damage multipliers, you always multiply all of the following :

* Enhancement Bonuses to damage
* Untyped direct additions to damage (IE: Power Attack's bonus damage) That is, anything that's just +N where N is some fixed number
* Strength Bonuses (including the 'boosted' strength bonus from two-hand)

What you don't multiply is Precision Damage (Ala sneak attack), bonus damage from energy effects, or any other bonus that is +XdY where XdY is some number of dice to roll.

So, the damage is (And I'll spell it out this time)

Spirited Charge : 1d8 (Base Weapon) + 2d8 (Spirited Charge Bonus) + 1d6 (Shocking) + 3 (+1 Enhancement x 3) + 12 (+4 Str x 3)

Critical : 1d8 (Base Weapon) + 2d8 (Critical Bonus) + 1d6 (Shocking) + 3 (+1 Enhancement x 3) + 18 (+6 two-handed Str bonus x 3)

Spirited Charge Critical : 1d8 (Base Weapon) + 2d8 (Critical Bonus) + 2d8 (Spirited Charge Bonus) + 1d6 (Shocking) + 5 (+1 Enhancement x 5) + 20 (+4 Str x 5)

EDIT : Just to fully clarify, those +N's to the base attack damage are considered part of the base attack damage, so they get multiplied on crits as well.

Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm, maybe this would make more sense as an example :

Base Weapon Damage : 1d8 + 1 (enhancemnt) + 4 (Str) + 1d6 (Shocking) = 1d8 + 5 + 1d6

Spirited Charge : (1d8+5)+(1d8+5)+(1d8+5)+1d6 = 3d8+15+1d6

etc...

As you see, you're multiplying the base damage by applying it over and over again, up to N times (Where N is xN multiplier).