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Officers, apprentices and acolytes, oh my!
This is primarily a reaction to Kae’s request, but it should apply to all.
Kae – after reading your request on the military there are two things to consider. The first is; if you wish to have your men geared and equipped the way you recommend – that is fine; but their gear must be paid for from the treasury. If you want them to have studded leather or plate mail – that is fine; but the treasury must pay for it – and for each man you equip.
Next – your general army is built of NPC types – with an 18 point buy for stats; and two Traits. They are currently level 1 NPC. You need to pay for their starting equipment; but since you have a barracks and stable – it will only cost 4 gold pieces a month per man. In this case that is 1,200 gold pieces a month (not counting cavalry – same rate of pay – but if you add on additional 30 horseman – that will mean you will end up paying 1,260 gold pieces a month).
Kae – you are free use the “point buy” on your guys as you see fit. If you want 100 archers, for example – you can use the point buy on the archers to give them better Dexterity then Strength, for example.
Note: For purposes of simplicity all “Squads” are of the same race. If you want 100 Elven Archers – with a 18 point buy – then you can do so. Make them all elves for simplicity sake on stat modifiers. This way each Squad” will have the same basic Stat Block – HP, Attack Mods, Traits, Feats, and so forth. This will be useful later when Mass Combat arrives – it gives you more flexibility now to create better powers later.
Leveling As long as a squad wins a pitched battle– they automatically “level up” to the next NPC level. Squads will “lose” a level every time you add new troops to it – this is for reasons of moral and game balance.
Officers, etcetera: Kae – there are two ways you can have formal officers in your company. The first way is to create an officer from scratch, the second way is for me to create one for you.
If you want an officer who is higher then First Level – I will create it for you. If you want to create your own officer from scratch – he must start on First Level and then gradually will improve with time.
His build is the same as a Cohort (25 point buy, three traits, one must be regional) – but he is not loyal to you specifically – only to the job and money. You will need to pay him. The rules for paying “NPC Class Characters” are here –
Rules for hirelings
As you continue to adventure in the game, there may be times when you want your character to go on specific missions or quests, yet do not feel up to the challenge or properly equipped. As such, there is a wide range of people now available for you to “hire’ on to assist you.
Typically, the following rules are not meant for a PC who wants to hire on the service of another NPC for a specific task, like asking a wizard to brew you a potion. Instead, they are for gathering up a “posse” of trusty people to help you on a quest. If you elect to hire on more people, then you will end up spending more money, diving more experience, but having some (theoretical) much needed backup.
That said, here are a few simple guidelines if you want to have hirelings come with you.
1. All Hirelings start with a “Zero” for their modifier for payment.
2. All Hirelings who go have actual class levels split experience with you, just like a normal Player Character. They can advance in level, and (theoretically) are no different then a cohort, except that you do not build their stats and abilities, and (theoretically) they can raise level higher then you, if given the chance.
3. All Hirelings have a flat rate per level for basic cost. This rate goes up or down on a sliding scale. A player gains bonuses or penalties for specific actions, much like a Leadership Feat with a Cohort. Typically, a Hireling with levels will also take his cut of the loot, but he may not, if under contract.
Finally: While under contract, a hireling obeys your orders almost exclusively, unless you order them to do something suicidal. Also, because they are a hireling, there is no sure way of knowing they simply won’t take the money and run. Again, they are not followers, but people you hire to do a job.
Relative Cost Bonus’s
+1 .... +2-3 .... +4-5 .... +6-7 .... +8-9 .... +10
-20% .. -40% .. -50% .. -60% .. -70% .. -80%
-1 .... -2-3 .... -4-5 .... -6-7 .... -8-9 .... -10
+10% .. +20% .. +40% .. +50% .. +80% .. Not for sale
Base Costs per Level per week
Level 1: 200 GP Level 5: 2,000 GP Level 9: 10,000 GP
Level 2: 500 GP Level 6: 4,000 GP Level 10: 12,000 GP
Level 3: 750 GP Level 7: 6,500 GP Level 11: 14,000 GP
Level 4: 1,000 GP Level 8: 8,000 GP Level 12: 16,000 GP
Bonuses
+2 Pays in advance
+1 Same alignment
+1 Per level greater then hireling
+1 Every successful deal done with PC before
+1 Has vault, stronghold, or safe to store coin
+1 If PC has twice as much, or more, as needed in his vault
+1 if “room and board” are provided free of cost.
+1 if “quality” room and board are provided.
Penalties
-2 Didn’t pay another hireling in the past
-4 Failed to pay THIS hireling in the past
-1 Every level the PC is below the hireling
-1 If partial coin is paid after completion of task
-4 If no coin is paid until completion of task
-2 Small Chance of Success
-3 Slim chance of success
-5 No chance of success
-8 Suicidal
Therefore, if you want a first level Cavalier as your officer in charge of cavalry, you can build him from scratch; create an icon for him, and give him gear (you do not need to pay for his gear on Level 1 – he begins with usual starting gold). This is now your officer in charge of cavalry.
The rest of you: The same is true for you all, too. If, for example – Shaezon wants to make a school for magic users, and wants to create a first level “Apprentice” for himself – he can do so. Same rules as above for an officer. But Shaezon must pay this fellow on a weekly basis out of his own pocket. If he continue to do so – the fellow may become more loyal to Shaezon, and, in time, help him with certain quests. However, he will level if Shaezon takes him on quests. If he stays at home working on scrolls all day – he will not level at all.
So if Arasmes wants a Apprentice, or Ariarh wants a Acolyte – they are free to build one and toss it up. But such a specialist must be paid for out of pocket on a weekly basis. They aren’t cheap – but they can be useful.
Please let me know if there are any questions.
As usual – this is not specifically set in stone. I want Kae to have the ability to create and build his own officers – but so too with the rest of you. They won’t be that powerful, not to start – but they can be very useful, and they can gain levels independent of you, and help you later.
Please let me know what you think. Too simple, too confusing, just right, lot of fun, whatever you want to say. Thanks!
To All
Okay – been doing some thinking.
Currently we have a pretty good group of players, but I was really hoping to have one player join up – most likely a Cleric. Now, Ariarh has offered to create a “Second Character” to role-play out in the form of a Cleric, and I have agreed.
However – I am still eager to see more posting. As such, it occurs to me that if you each had another character (not a Cohort, but a second character – with his/her own motives and ideas) that you may be more eager to post. Naturally, this is just a suggestion, though. Having so many posts is a little daunting at times – but I’d like to see more – more story and so forth – I do enjoy reading it. If making another character encourages more chatter – I say go for it! Same rules apply – 28 point buy, Three Traits (one must be from the character’s starting Region) and you should make the character level 6 – though there is no guarantee when they will join up with the party.
I’m not really looking for a formal “Open Recruitment” right now – there has been too many high hopes and failures, in my opinion, of players who join up then quit after a week. But if any of you guys know a player out there who is good, and might like to invite them to play, let me know and we can examine that option.
I don’t want things to get unwieldy here – having another person post is fine to me – if you know a good friend, or would rather make a second character; or if you feel the whole thing is too daunting – that is cool with me. Just let me know more about it, or if you have an idea for a second character and we can go from there.
One thing: If you do make another character, please remember this is a character that is specifically unique from your own. It should compliment the story, not be a “third cohort” for your primary character to control or order around.
Finally – this is only if you’re up for it. There’s a lot of posting to read through already – so there’s no pressure. It’s completely up to you.
i'm possibly interested in rolling up a second character now that ip'm done school and should have a bit more time to keep up with things after the holiday season. not sure what, exactly, but something fun to fill a necessary role would be good inspiration, so if there's any spots the other players have no interest in, I'll see what strikes my fancy...
I'm going to stick with the one character and familiar.
Shae - good times! No worries, and no pressure
Kae - interested in seeing what you decide to toss up
To all What did you guys think of creating "officers" or "apprentices" and so on? I'd be interested in seeing such folk running around with you - if you want to stat them out to hire them - you can, if you can afford them.
Kae, any idea on what you're doing with the military, or do you need more time? Remember - no matter what your plan is for the dealings with the temple and the return trip home - you are free to "ret-con" your decision with the military any time you'd like.
Arasmes - the same goes for you on apprentices... if you are interested.
Finally - if we do have another play join us - does anyone know someone in particular who would enjoy writing with us? I would prefer someone who likes to read/write a lot - but you probably already guessed that.
Okay - hope to hear from you soon - meanwhile, Merry Christmas to all!
xmas is being busy. I'll need some time, bu i'll work it out out soon as i can.
I'll work up an apprentice to find me when I open up a shop.
Cool - but remember; for apprentices, bodyguards, officers, or anything like that - you'll need to pay for them specifically out of pocket. They start with level 1 equipment - but if you want to upgrade their gear, you can - but at cost.
But, for example - if someone wants a Half-Orc Barbarian Bodyguard - or a Acolyte for a temple - or something like that - you can easily do it. But, it will cost money for their services...
More on your total loot either tonight or tomorrow, though...
So some ideas that i'd have fun with:
Bard: Ruler/diplomat
Now 'Ras is stated out to make a good ruler, but also a Diplomat with his higher stability bonus. Now I've always wanted to play a bard, but never had the chance, but he'd be a flamboyant high Cha gent too and fir for ruler or diplomat. We could see how they develop.
Treasurer: High int non-wizard
I'm kinda thinking about Sage Sorc based on Int not cha, or a Duelist of some sort, maybe a rogue, with slightly less int, but lots of skills. Or i can make my bard differently, dip into duelist for some added combat prowess, as he's likely going to be focused on using the skill points to make an economic genius.
Or a magus would be fun too. High int, and lots of skills from int, and he'll be useful for a fight, on the front lines. Less buffing for the party, tho.
SO either an Int or Cha based kind of guy. Any opinion folks?
Dain, I'd like to have my new friend possibly show up at the end of the week, The party arrives with Drake after clearing the temple, and he/she's there to greet them???
I'll chat with you about the toon later, via skype, hammer things out and such, of course, but That might be a possibility???
New friend concept is pretty good - here's what needs to happen first, though.
1. Since you asked, I guess we will probably need party approval - so far Ariarh is making a second character who is a Cleric - something the group needs. I don't think there is much question there - but you have put forth a few ideas. It will be up to the party to look at the ideas and decide what they want to do. Once we hear feedback from the group - then I can tell you more about when the person shows up.
A bard may work better later in the quest then a magus would - and a magus/wizard would work a lot better farther south - near the tower on the island (for plot reasons). When I know for sure what you want to play, I'll have a better angle on when to work it into the campaign.
2. Even if your new guy shows up after clearing the temple - it may take a bit longer then the end of the week. Personally - I'm gung-ho about posting/writing. But with the holidays now people may be a little backed up and not have the time to post as much. In other words - the sooner you're on board - the better. But it will depend a lot on the rest of the players and how fast they can post before we get to a place to do a battle, and how fast the battle is resolved.
Remember - the battle with the trolls took about two weeks or so - when I created it I envisioned a one night battle - possibly 2 if we went long. So, there's no telling how long the battle will take - though I hope it goes quickly.
I meant the in-game week. So when we get back to saravale, he could have entered the city, gotten aquainted with people, and have a reason to help out the party for further exploration and such.
OK, So I'm liking the Bard ideas.
Treasurer:
He'd have much more of a focus on int than cha, and pour ranks into Craft, take some crafting feats, and ask Shae to contribute the spells as needed for the crafting magic and alchemical items and stuff. Thinking since he'll have lower Cha, he'll go into Chronicler PRC, continue gaining performance, and associated powers. Maybe going Archivist Archetype to use his Knowledge checks to grant AC and Save bonuses instead of damage. Seems like a fun character, a bookish sort of bard, academic and intelligent.
Ruler:
Take the Celebrity archetype, and sacrifice inspire courage for Fame, giving him bonuses within the community to Diplomacy and Intimidate, which will scale nicely in terms of region size of his ability, and the size of the community, it looks. Great public speaker, high powered caster, likely go into control combat style trip-master with a whip/net and some other trip weapon. Mostly the idea is having Massive Cha and using it, with another combat option that doesn't need strength. He'd also make a fast friend to the populace.
Ruler/Diplomat
If 'Raz is wants to pursue that role, I don't want to step on his toes, and get in the way of the goals of his player, so if that's the case i don't want to make a character specifically built to aim for that, designed to pursue it. In which case it'll be another sort of bard, Still a heavy cha caster but more likely vanilla or not Celeb.
Then again, I could make a Green-Widow Changeling, and we got one to play diplomat and one ruler, or 2 rulers.
Honestly, I think I'd like to go with a Green Widow Bard for the Cha based one anyway, and the question Goes to 'Raz about whether she should be traditional or a Celebrity.
Either that or I'll make my craft-master Archivist/Chronicler Treasurer.
I'm cool with two rulers. Usually it is because they are married but there may be other ways. I'm ok with you going celebrity with the caveat that I really don't want much in the way of intra party conflict, dain is sending more than enough our way without us helping him on that front lol. So I like the green widow changeling bard and go two rulers, assuming we live that long also lol. I love that we could potentially have a changeling and a tiefling ruling the country lol.
that would be interesting. May even take the bastard trait for her. =P
I guess the question is whether or not trading inspire courage is worth it. The performances are worth it, for sure.
So the question goes to, Do we want the Co-Ruler/Diplomat, or the Treasurer/Crafter? cause i like both, and can't decide what do do...
I have a sea hag changeling cleric/oracle, just so you guys know.
Ry, what do you think would be better, my green widow, or the bookworm?
Honestly, would love to see a bookworm. Yet, I want you happy with your character. I just think it's going to be strange suddenly having two changelings in town right after the cleansing of the temple but I suppose we could make it work.
I'm in love with both. It'd be a lot of fun to play up the whole changelings from different hags, making them sort of sisterly rivals. Mine could play up being the pretty one. they could also know each other, and have traveled for a bit, after having found each other as they are changelings and have that as a commonality. What god does your cleric worship?
Then again a crafter could be nice, and having a straight-edged Lawful-Good character trying to keep records while Kae goes around paying out a couple grand to black-marketeers an the DL would make his life hilarious. Plus a strong Economy is nice...
so that's one for treasurer, and Raz likes the changeling?
She worships Sarenrae. The stats etc for the new character are under my alias. She is a changeling from Osirion. She has a strong backstory (it'll be up on her profile later today) and I'm not sure how it would fit in with meeting up another changeling ... But if the GM is okay with it, I can try and weave her together with your own in some way. BTW, my changeling IS pretty so yeah, your one can blather on about being the prettier one ... my one may not care. ;) LOL
I'm still prettiest ;-)
she'll fight you for that title. and she's got claws... or will, if i go celeb...
wonder what Qwykee would think of her...
I'm sorely tempted to make a hulking changeling to round out the set lol
Make her a witch, she'll act as treasure, and run a coven of the three. =P
Please remember that story - not stats - are what makes the character. If everyone has a interesting reason to be choosing Changeling's, I'm happy to read it, but I do want to see a good story. And don't forget - no matter how high a person's charisma is - this does NOT guarantee the throne. Just saying...
Personally, I would say that cunning, ruthlessness, audacity, and determination are better traits then a single stat. But then, that's just me.
Of course, if I go by the book on strict basis - the massive amount of penalties your town/nation will receive when it does not have positions filled - (there are ten other positions in the realm that need to be filled - other then "ruler") - may offset things a bit. The advantage to having players play multiple "characters" is to have a well rounded team - and a good story.
I liked the green hag, and there's other traits to stack on that aspect. I just like the fun of finding mechanical justifications for character aspects and letting the mechanics inform various character traits when making a character.
Kae's not super optimized, he just does his thing, and I've grown him pretty organically. There was a mechanical aspect that I thought was interesting and I liked how he grew based on that.
I'd say cleverness, mediative ability, and a magnetic personality are more important than the number, but that's cause I think saravale wants more goody-goody types.
So Shae, what would you support, celebrity or financier?
:) - no worries, Kae.
I guess what I meant is; sometimes it feels like people pick a race because it gives them the best stats to do something, not because the they think the race or story is very cool.
Other times it feels like they take a stat mod. - not because it is right for the character's story or background - but because it gives them the best bonus in the game.
But of course - this is just an academic theory. Whatever you guys want to do will be fine - in the end, having a fun is the goal.
So - yay...
I liked the green hag, and there's other traits to stack on that aspect. I just like the fun of finding mechanical justifications for character aspects and letting the mechanics inform various character traits when making a character.
Kae's not super optimized, he just does his thing, and I've grown him pretty organically. There was a mechanical aspect that I thought was interesting and I liked how he grew based on that.I'd say cleverness, mediative ability, and a magnetic personality are more important than the number, but that's cause I think saravale wants more goody-goody types.
So Shae, what would you support, celebrity or financier?
Thinking of him as a king and not a CEO, I'd say celebrity. Rulers don't actually have to know what they're doing. They just have to have presence of mind enough to surround themsleves with competent advisors.
Of course a financier would be far more confident in his abilities, however "the people" don't fanatically devote themselves to lines on a ledger. They devote themselves to charasmatic leaders.
Well, THe Celebrity would go for Ruler, and try to fill that post, Or i could role up another bard, that would be better suited to full the Treasurer position, going Archivist to Chronicler, and focusing on Int, with many skills, and Take some crafting.
So one is the charasmatic leader that people love, and the other is just a party member who takes up treasurer, as he's an archivist, and loves that sort of treasure-hunt, and all associated cataloging as well as is very interested in the way economies work.
So should i role a Ruler or Treasurer, was the question
Well, THe Celebrity would go for Ruler, and try to fill that post, Or i could role up another bard, that would be better suited to full the Treasurer position, going Archivist to Chronicler, and focusing on Int, with many skills, and Take some crafting.
So one is the charasmatic leader that people love, and the other is just a party member who takes up treasurer, as he's an archivist, and loves that sort of treasure-hunt, and all associated cataloging as well as is very interested in the way economies work.
So should i role a Ruler or Treasurer, was the question
Celebrity. Though remember you won't start out with Kardashian level fame. You'll have to earn it.
Heh, I know that. It's just a +2, in the city and surrounding areas for a while, but it's still helpful. Maybe she'll take leadership and get a "manager" cohort that will, appaled by our fiscal irresponsibility, take it upon him/herself to take over the country's finances... =P
Heh, I know that. It's just a +2, in the city and surrounding areas for a while, but it's still helpful. Maybe she'll take leadership and get a "manager" cohort that will, appaled by our fiscal irresponsibility, take it upon him/herself to take over the country's finances... =P
just make sure shes a citizen and not an outsider. that will speed the process
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"Commander of the cavalry checking in, SIR!"
Submiting for approval as the commander of the outriders of Saravale
"Requesting approval for 29 warrior NPC humans with
Stats: str:16, dex:12, con:14, int:13, wis:13, cha:10
Feats: Mounted Combat, and Ride-by Attack,
Equipment: Lances: 10gp, wooden shields: 3gp, Hide Armor: 15gp
Skills: Ride:+5 Perception:+5 Handle Animal:+4
to serve as the Saravale cavalry"
In a setting like Kingmaker it's not a terrible idea to just give everyone leadership for free to fill the various minion roles.
In a setting like Kingmaker it's not a terrible idea to just give everyone leadership for free to fill the various minion roles.
I actually mentioned that to dain a couple of days ago lol.
Celebrity. Though remember you won't start out with Kardashian level fame. You'll have to earn it.Well, THe Celebrity would go for Ruler, and try to fill that post, Or i could role up another bard, that would be better suited to full the Treasurer position, going Archivist to Chronicler, and focusing on Int, with many skills, and Take some crafting.
So one is the charasmatic leader that people love, and the other is just a party member who takes up treasurer, as he's an archivist, and loves that sort of treasure-hunt, and all associated cataloging as well as is very interested in the way economies work.
So should i role a Ruler or Treasurer, was the question
Kae - if Shaezon is right then all you will need to do is the following:
1. Have your dad defend OJ Simpson -
2. Make a low budget, poor quality B Style amateur porn video
3. Get a cheap and poorly made show on MTV
4. Whore yourself out like a third-class hooker, and get your siblings and mom to do the same thing...
"Commander of the cavalry checking in, SIR!"
Submiting for approval as the commander of the outriders of Saravale"Requesting approval for 29 warrior NPC humans with
Stats: str:16, dex:12, con:14, int:13, wis:13, cha:10
Feats: Mounted Combat, and Ride-by Attack,
Equipment: Lances: 10gp, wooden shields: 3gp, Hide Armor: 15gp
Skills: Ride:+5 Perception:+5 Handle Animal:+4
to serve as the Saravale cavalry"
Cavalry look pretty good - waiting on stats for infantry - meanwhile - Since Sir Garith is technically a level one Cavalier - he gets level 1 starting gold for free - the gear you gave him is over 200 GP - you can do this, but you must supplement it from your income.
He answers to you - if you are the general - but you pay for his services out of pocket.
The same is true for the infantry - this reminds me - how are you planning on dividing gold? Currently you guys have a finite amount of gold in the treasury. With that gold you will need to do basic things like pay for your equipment. However - it is also needed to upgrade/maintain the town - pay for hirelings - and a host of other services. You have already personally spent 2,000 of the GP on Grishnak - this fellow will require more. You must pay for him out of your own pocket, though.
The trick to this is that even though the treasury may have (for example) 10,000 GP - it is not divided between the council members. Far from it - it is the "Nations" treasury - collected for the nation and to spend on the nation - for building roads, schools, police, fire department - and so forth.
You gain a monthly "salary" that is determined by the group and paid out of the treasury. Once that salary is determined - you have more flexibility. So far - there has been no monthly salary set.
More on that in a second...
Each month every member of the Council should earn an income. It is my proposal that the income is set in advance - and all loot which we find is simply dumped in bulk into the treasury. Then - at the start of the month - all council members get their monthly "cut" of loot - and can decide for themselves what they do with it.
This includes constructing buildings; hiring aids or services, purchasing magical gear and goods - and other things.
But as for assuming that the collected treasury is divided equally among the council members - and the rest of the nation must earn their coin on their own - I don't think that is going to be a good idea.
It makes things difficult - both for in/out-of-game accounting, as well as the RP value of why the council always gets the money - not the nation.
Be advised - if you use the treasury for your own income solely- then it means there will be no money (or very little) left for your citizens to rely on. This is by no means a bad/wrong thing - it merely means that if your citizens feel that they cannot count on their leaders for substantial coin or support, then they must do things "on their own".
You have only recently got a taste of how enterprising citizens do things on their own - all citizens (except for NPC hirelings) have a 25 point buy, and of the 20 prominent citizens you have met in Saravale (that is - the one's who you learned names and occupations) the average level to these people is 4.
This is because they all do their own thing when you aren't around. This is fine - and can be great - if you look at folk like Sylvath, for example - but others (like Grishnak) having him privately use his own resources to pimp himself out - this might be problematic, or not. Grishnak is doing well for himself - though others are making more money and have even better resources then HE does...
In the end, it's all up to you. But a flat monthly salary would help you a lot. That is my suggestion. The only question I see is - how much should you each earn a month?
Let me know what you think...
What if we find loot that we want to keep?
What if we find loot that we want to keep?
Well - again, this is just a suggestion - let's say you find a magic wand worth 6,000 GP.
Let's also say that your character earns 2,000 GP a month, as a council member. Finally, let's say you have 3,000 in savings.
For me - I would say "For now the wand goes in the treasury, or you can take it now, but pay us back. You don't "keep" the wand - it's not actually yours - it's the nations - anyone can use it."
If you say "but I want the wand for myself, and no one else CAN use it" then I might say...
"Okay - put your 3,000 GP back in the treasury - and for the next three months take only 1,000 GP instead of 2,000 GP. Then the nation gets the value of the wand back - and you get the wand. You bought it - it's yours."
This way your character has exclusive rights/use to the wand - it is his. Also, having a 6,000 GP wand in the treasury may be useful - but in the end, it can't be spent. It's like having a million dollar statue in your private vault - sure your estimated vault earnings went up - but who can use the statue (or in this case, the wand).
This also solves complications like finding a sword worth 10,000 GP with five Council members. If the "warrior" wants the sword - doesn't he have to give the rest of the party 2,000 GP a piece? Well - that would be the fair thing - then the other members could use their "cut of the loot" to buy potions to help each other and the warrior - even as he uses his sword to help himself and the party.
Now - if we go back to the wand - and you have six council members and you say - "but shouldn't I pay only 5,000 for the wand, since 1/6 of the party loot is 1,000 and the wand is 6,000 - so really I'm putting the money back into the party?"
I would say "Yes, and no". If the group were taking all collected loot and splitting equally among themselves - that would be fine. But for now, your "loot" is really property of the nation. If you go a year without questing - does that mean you gain no loot and cannot spend/buy anything? I would say "No - you get your monthly salary - same as always - whether you quest or not. It is paid from the vault - and the wand goes there. You are not splitting the value of the wand between PC's - it's a find of the nation - the treasury pays your salary - with your salary you know exactly how much you'll get each month - and what you can do with it each month".
Meanwhile - you could say "well - there is only one person in the party that is going to use the Druids Robes or the Halflings Handsome Hat or the Half-elf Barbarian Brood Bracelet - so why shouldn't they each get those items and be done with it? Why even put them into the vault?"
But we all know that in the end - if a player gets a treasure that only ONE player can use - it feels like favoritism - and if the others don't get anything because Player One says "but guys - my handy sword/wand/robe will help ALL of the party!" - I mean, come on! We all know that is equally a farce.
But that is my two cents on that matter. I hope it answers the question - but I encourage chatter. Dividing party loot is a pain in the butt, and if we figure out a good system now - we can go from there and the rest of the game it's pretty easy.
I would add that monthly "salary" should also be level dependent. The higher the level - the more a Council member should earn each month (this is mainly for RP/Game balance - if you have an NPC Council Member on level 3 - I don't think he should earn as much as a PC Council Member on level 6; for example).
Does that sound pretty good? Please let me know if it doesn't - I kind of want to get this issue hacked out soon - preferably before you hit the temple - definitely before you hit the south lands...
What does the kingmaker book suggest? Are we reinventing the wheel?
Are we not generating income/BP through economy checks/taxes? I thought that loot that we get in the field is surplus to those checks, as in they are separate. I know we are using GP because saying "you have 10 BP in the vault" sounds weird but I didn't realize we were using our loot we find in the field on quests to run the kingdom, if that is indeed what we are doing.
What does the kingmaker book suggest? Are we reinventing the wheel?
Personally - I haven't really seen any formal rules on how you divide your loot.
I know your nation earns "money" each month - and the money is used to buy things - but I also know that the book is very specific at what things can be purchased.
For example - magical potions/armor/weapons/gear - this is all determined by random - once a month - based on the size of the town. Once the town's size is made, the GM rolls a dice to determine the specific "magical item" that is available for sale that month. It remains in your "magical item inventory" until is purchased - with a finite amount of magical items.
It is assumed also that magical gear that is found on quests is divided specifically among the party members - the town gets nothing because it is autonomous tool that exists specifically to outfit the party with random gear so they can go out - slay more monsters - get better gear, wait until their town grows - and when it gets big enough get better "random magical items" on the inventory. The town crafts you gear magically - if you can pay them for it - which you can easily do - if you find treasure on the quests to buy magical gear; and if someone in town is wiling to craft it.
Formally, though - there isn't. The town doesn't have "magic shops" so you can "custom order" a special item. It is all random - you want a custom order weapon - you must craft it, and pay for the cost with out of pocket loot that you found on quests. No matter how successful your town is - all it does is provide more random magic items and gear. You want specifics - you must craft them yourself.
Personally, though that is the rule - I find it boring, dull - and very un-imaginative.
Also, I have never seen a formal rule system for dividing loot among players in any RPG I've played in. The GM says "this is what you find" and the players figure out who gets what. The above idea was my suggestion alone - but it generally conforms to the majority of gaming styles (as in - you find a weapon worth X - if only one person can use it - he has to pay out the cash to the other players, so they can at least save it to buy/craft their own gear later, if they return to town). But if the players find no specific magical gear made for wizards for a while - it could be a very lean time for wizards - (this assumes I use the rules from the core book, though).
Further - the formal rules have no specific guidelines for hiring out apprentices, assistants, acolytes, and others (like Kae's Cavalier officer, for example). That function was my own creation to give you each specific power and control of who works for you and is loyal to you.
Further - the game has multiple pre-made NPC's to fulfill the roles of important Council Members - because it is likely that a gaming group is not made of 10+ people who want to run the kingdom. Again - I deviated from that by allowing the players the chance to make multiple characters.
I have made many deviations from the core rules - crafting magical items and gear - for example - even with the appropriate feats - is an expensive and time consuming process best left to Cohorts who do not adventure with the group. But in my system - you can pay someone to do it for you in town while both you and your cohort do what you need to do.
Again - it is pretty obvious my system deviates strongly from the core system. But then, I like how I am running the game. The town is an organic thing - if it is run well it will reward you much more then "random treasure rolls" - if it is ignored - you may have a rebellion.
I like that better for both good RP and because it feels better.
But again - dividing the loot works how you all decide. So far, however - players who took specific things had to pay out of pocket to "own" those things - the money going back into the treasury.
This includes (for example) the money Kae invested on contacts with Grishnak. Currently that was out of his own pocket - which is why Grisnak and his people are loyal to him alone. It is also like Ariarh spending out of HER pocket for a medallion that helps with her healing. Yes, healing helps the group - but she paid for it on her own - it is now "her" medallion. If another person wants it - she can give it to them - but that's up to her.
Right now you are getting a "cut" of the loot. That could be very good, or it could be very bad - it's up to you. A steady monthly salary has its perks, though - that was all I was suggesting on that end.
I have no problem with the idea of a steady monthly income and leaving the "loot" in the vault representing the "fiscal value" or "monetary worth" of the kingdom/town.
Are we not generating income/BP through economy checks/taxes? I thought that loot that we get in the field is surplus to those checks, as in they are separate. I know we are using GP because saying "you have 10 BP in the vault" sounds weird but I didn't realize we were using our loot we find in the field on quests to run the kingdom, if that is indeed what we are doing.
Okay - so...
Formally in the book your kingdom is just a tool to provide you with specific random magical items. That's pretty much it. The "Larger" your kingdom is - the "better" your random magical items can be.
A Barony - for example - gets five random magical items a month. They stay in your inventory. You can buy them, if you want. If you buy them, then the GM rolls again for the remainder - if you DON'T buy them, they stay there taking up space.
If you have a formal "kingdom" - then you can get "Major Magical Items" - all by chance, all taking up slots - and all staying there until you buy them. When you buy them with the gold you found on quests - then they go away, and a new magical item pops up by random.
The only real value that BP provides is that it gives you random amounts of BP per month (base on rolls) so you can have more BP to build better things in the city - the things you build have a few basic function - provide bonus's to your roll for next month - and give you more citizens. The more citizens you have - the bigger your "town". The bigger your town - the more potentially random stuff you can get on your cities sheet.
All your "roles" in the kingdom do - in the "Formal Rules" is give appropriate modifiers for the usual three monthly rolls of Economy, Stability, and Loyalty - and all THOSE rolls do is tell you (at the end of the month) - how much more BP you got so you can build more stuff and get more random drops.
If you want to craft something, you can do it - at cost, usual rules apply.
However...
That is not how I've been running it.
Currently your citizens can craft magical gear for you at cost. Your citizens have personalities and do things very different. Your town grows organically.
While the size of your town provides you with more population - different buildings grant you different bonus's - other then the usual Loyalty, Economy and Stability. They grant you the ability to recruit soldiers (if you have a barracks) - or hire someone to craft a magical item for you (if you can't do it yourself and have a particular desire to do have something special).
I am not planning on changing it back to the very "cut and dry" method the book prescribes. I find it dull, and bland. Your "council members" are pigeon-holed into a wandering group of people who travel the grounds every couple of months looking for loot so you can buy random things - and build things in the town who's only function is to give you better bonus's to dice rolls.
A castle should be cool - an advantage to the town - not just an icon on a map that grants you better rolls for better stuff. The same is true for a wizard academy - and NPC's shouldn't be cookie cutter cut-outs from the books.
My version is different - it is not how the boxed set is formally run (except for down time between quests - at which point it reverts to the standard method prescribed in the book - but only for the purposes of "time lapse").
I guess what I'm saying is - I'm not running this version like the Boxed Set - there are obvious differences by now. You don't know the all the differences, because your character shouldn't know them.
Please let me know if there more questions - I am happy to answer any - and again, my goal is to have fun. So, if it is really a problem - I can be flexible. Just let me know...
Frankly, I don't want to have to micromanage everything. That's not fun. Some things, like taxes, etc should be on autopilot unless something specific happens (like a plot hook) that draws our attention.
Frankly, I don't want to have to micromanage everything. That's not fun. Some things, like taxes, etc should be on autopilot unless something specific happens (like a plot hook) that draws our attention.
You don't have to micromanage anything. Taxes are "theoretically" on autopilot (as in the council votes on the amount of "Tax" they want to levy on their citizens - the higher the percent, the more they make - but the citizens may not be happy).
Actually, all you have to do - theoretically - (assuming you are a council member) is go on quests, collect your monthly wage, and decide what to do with it.
Of course, you could also decide to get no monthly pay - take only the cut of the "loot" you earn from questing - and the only loot/coin you get is when you go on quests (assuming you wanted to go that way personally).
If you are not a council member - all you do is take a cut of loot for quests you go on. Even if you are a council member - you could formally say "I want no monthly wage - I want only an equal portion of the loot each quest" and that is all.
By the rules - all the "Taxes" do is provide you with more BP - which make a bigger kingdom - which get you more random magic items to choose from.
Either way - you don't have to micro manage anything.
But I'm not going to do it a flat series of monthly rolls. All buildings will have story purposes behind them - as will citizens. If you guys build a building just for "bonus's to rolls" - and aren't interested in the value it grants your city via story - that's okay too. You don't even have to pay attention to those things.
Some people build barrack's so they can recruit an army - other people do it just for the bonus's to rolls. Either way works - but in this game the "challenges" are a result of the buildings you have - or don't have - and the people who frequent the town because those buildings exist, or don't exist.
All you have to do is deal with the challenges that come to you at any given time. The nature of those challenges will be created by what is in your town - what is NOT in your town - and what surrounds your town.
So, in short, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep doing what you're doing and I think you'll be fine. If all you want is your cut of the loot on adventures, that works, too.
Just let me know your preference - and we can go from there.
I'll work out kae's actions, when I can. I'm in colorado on a trip, so I'll be on when I can.
I'll work out kae's actions, when I can. I'm in colorado on a trip, so I'll be on when I can.
No worries - the fact that you have your first officer is cool - and well done!
To simplify things - you have Max Starting gold for him - the rest of his gear is yours out of pocket.
As soon as you get your Infantry officer - you'll formally have 2 officers under you. They will level up when you take them on quests - and they will be aligned specifically to you - as long as you pay them.
HOWEVER: if you treat them well, they may even go a few weeks/months without pay - but they will be "your men". You cannot control them - they are independent of your will - but they are at least loyal to you - so... you got that going for you :)
To all
It seems like there is a bit of division on how the game flows in terms of "rules mechanics". Some of you want to do things in a more traditional way from the game - while others don't.
To simplify things - those of you who wish to do things "formally and by the book" are free to remain in Saravale. All rules for the town - and how the people who live in the town function - shall remain by the book for the people who remain in the "capital city".
Otherwise - I am going to be providing "baronies" for any people interested in having a land to run and govern "outside" of Saravale.
These baronies will be run more loosely then the book. Specifically - taxes will give you gold to buy things - citizens can craft things for you to buy - but the nature of running such a barony will be much more complex - you will have more duties to deal with in your town. Such as building and stating out a council - creating designing NPC's in your town - and some other things - basically it will be run very much like Saravale.
For those of you interested in this feature - please let me know in the coming days - I will work it into the story for those interested - for those who are NOT interested - no worries - there is always room in Saravale if you prefer doing things more "by the book".
Just let me know either way...
Finally Those in Saravale - you will earn loot the traditional way - those who take on a "barony" will not earn loot the traditional way - you will actually get a monthly "wage/living" to pay for your people and NPC's.
In either case - when you quest together - you will most likely just split the loot across the board - trying to be as equal as possible, and as traditional as possible.
Just let me know your preferences...
One last note: For all your excellent posting today - everyone who accepts the role of a barony is free to take an additional 4 BP and 6,000 GP to start on your barony. This is money meant for the town, not "personal spending money", though.
Ariarh would like to branch out and set up a barony of her own and will abide by the other set of rules. She is okay with a monthly wage or living allowance ...
She has put forward her desire to settle on the lands (build her barony) where the Temple of the Elk is currently situated (i.e. around the temple).