Ranged Natural Attack on Eidolon Possible?

[Fatespinner]

I don't really see any way to do it by the rules as written, but maybe I'm missing something here. Is there any way to design an Eidolon such that it has a ranged natural attack? My intent is to create something similar to StarCraft's Zerg Hydralisk: A serpentine creature that spits poison spikes at range. Obviously you would start with the "serpentine" base and build it from there.

For 2 Evolution points, an Eidolon can gain proficiency with simple weapons, which would include ranged weapons like a crossbow. Another 2 points gives it martial weapons, which would include a longbow. Let's operate on this as a basis and call it 5 evolution points to get, essentially, a built-in longbow with self-regenerating ammunition. Is that fair? Should this be 6 points or more? Or should it be completely impossible?

Then I want to add Magic Attacks (1 point) and Energy Attacks (acid) (2 points). Finally, another 2 points for Poison.

I now have a serpentine Eidolon that spits magic, poisonous, acid-coated spikes at ranges and rates of fire identical to a longbow for the cost of 10 Evolution points. Is this unbalanced? Is there a way to make it work? I'm interested to hear your feedback.

[KilroySummoner]

It is impossible to create an unbalanced Serpentine Eidolon since it is horrendously weaker than a Quadruped, who is also weaker than a Biped.

[Fatespinner]

KilroySummoner wrote:

It is impossible to create an unbalanced Serpentine Eidolon since it is horrendously weaker than a Quadruped, who is also weaker than a Biped.

Well, for the purposes of my question, whether the Eidolon is biped, quadruped, or serpentine is irrelevant. I just want to know if the idea of a "ranged natural attack" is unbalancing in general or, if not, how it can be balanced to work in the way that I want it to.

[StabbittyDoom]

Look at the Manticore or the Tarrasque for examples of ranged natural attacks.
I wouldn't say they're too unbalancing. Heck, the Manicore can shoot 4 spikes as a standard action, and the tarrasque can shoot 6! They appear to be primary weapons (full str mod to damage).

[Fatespinner]

StabbittyDoom wrote:

Look at the Manticore or the Tarrasque for examples of ranged natural attacks.

I wouldn't say they're too unbalancing. Heck, the Manicore can shoot 4 spikes as a standard action, and the tarrasque can shoot 6! They appear to be primary weapons (full str mod to damage).

I know that these kind of attacks exist in the game. I'm just wondering how to give it to an Eidolon without being a game-breaker. The Manticore was actually where I originally got the idea, but then I wanted to go and add some more flavor... and the idea of ranged attacks with poison makes me giggle.

[StabbittyDoom]

I'd say a 2 point evo with a 40ft increment is fair. 1d6 or 1d8 damage at medium size, 20/x3 crit (like bows).

Remember that the eidolon will need to take other feats to make these attacks useful due to soft cover and firing into melee penalties, which more than balance out the range. Also, the Eidolon has a lot easier time getting high str than high dex thanks to the large/huge evolution, so their to-hit will be less than their compatriots before even counting the other penalties.

[Kelandis]

This may be a bit of a necro, but in a campaign I'm playing the GM allowed me to homebrew a ranged attack since I want a hydralisk eidolon. Granted we haven't played yet, this is what I've come up with.

Spine Shot [Ex] – 1 Evolution Point
An eidolon possesses the ability to fire armor-piercing spines, giving it a spine shot attack. This is a primary attack. The spine deals 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). The range of the spine shot is 45 feet. This attack deals damage with the Strength stat. The poison evolution can be applied to spine shot. If the eidolon already has a spine shot attack, taking this evolution again gives an additional attack and a range increase of 5 feet for each extra purchase. This ability can be taken once for every 5 levels the summoner possesses.

[benthic]

Thanks, Kelandis! I was just trying to stat up a manticore model eidolon and stumbled upon this. The build I had before this was 20 points, but this Evolution fixes a lot of problems. Using the Spine Shot evolution, I came up with the following build:

MANTICORE
15 points
Base Form: quadruped
Free Evolutions: bite, limbs (legs) (x2)
Primary Evolutions: claws, tail, spine shot
Secondary Evolutions: flight (+20 ft.), large, low-light vision, scent, spine shot (x3)

(The tail evolution may be wholly unnecessary at this point, but I like the build to make as much sense structurally as possible.)

Thanks for the Evolution!

[Da'ath]

My suggestion would be slightly different (though I think the above evolution is great). I'd use the breath weapon as the model evolution for anything that deals damage (comparable amounts) with fluff revisions.

For something that "spit poison", I'd again use the breath weapon model, but halve most of it, ie 2 pt evolution requiring poison evolution, 30ft ray for single target, 15ft cone, but the uses remain the same, using the poison's DC. Level limit 5th or 7th - not sure on that part.