What to do when the only sensible option is to kill a PC?

[Yaramos]

I ran "Black Waters" over this weekend and ended up in a bit of a dilema, one that cost a PC his life.

Spoiler:

In the last fight with the ghast, the party went right for his alcove without knowing he was there. Two of the characters got paralyzed in the alcove, and the rest retreated (without their paralyzed party members) back into the room with the circle of students. A ghast has an Int of 17 and a Wis of 18, so wouldn't just blindly charge out and leave his two meals alone to un-paralyze and hit him from behind. I gave a 30/30/40 chance that he'd try and kill (coup de grace) one of the PCs (30% for each) or would actually charge out and try to get the others. I rolled really low, so one of the PCs died. After this, of course, the other PCs came running back to try and protect their other party member.

How should I have handled this? Should I have had the ghoul just make normal full round attacks on each paralyzed individual (which would have probably killed them anyways)?

I know that the PCs didn't run away because they were hoping the ghould followed them and leave their friends alone.

I guess this boils down to a more fundamental question - how to play intelligent evil? I feel that the game is more fun when there is actually a chance that your character can die. Intelligent creatures are where I feel this danger lies. While it's easy to have a mindless creature switch from the incapacitated character to whoever struck it last, I feel the smarter ones will be more methodical in how they deal with the heroes.

I don't like killing PCs. However, other than blantanly going "Well, everyone else ran away and left you to die but instead I'm going to run out and chase the rest of the party" I didn't see away around this. While I don't think that the players (especially the one who died) would have objected, it seems like it turns the game into a "show up and win" scenario with no challenge.

I'd like to know if there's any official stance on something like this, as well as other GM's thoughts.

[Erik Freund]

As a GM, I hate being put in situations like that.

However, you made the right move. Doing it the other way encourages them to do stuff like that in the future, and eventually it just snowballs as they realize they can take advantage of the situation. Teaching them a few lessons at the school of hard knocks will be an investment for the future. It hurts now, I know, but it is the way to go for long-term success.

[Doug Doug]

It depends on the players at the table. If they are experienced players and should know better I would let them have it. No intelligent enemy would leave opponents at his back.

If they are new players then it's not really fun to get killed when you're just learning the game.

Spoiler:

I'd have the ghast do something dramatic to give the players a break and crank up the tension. If the players fled to room with the salt spray I'd have the ghast carry the paralyzed PCs out to a sarcophagus and stuff them inside for later. He could also tie them up with seaweed. I'd give new players another chance to escape and let their own dice kill them rather than a coup de gras.

Coming up with these decisions on the fly is a challenge though, and essentially the game is not as exciting if there's never any death. It has to happen once in a while to remind the players what's at stake.

[Yaramos]

Thank you both for your feedback. I agree that it's a sucky position to be in.

Doug Doug, thanks for the idea. I'll keep that in mind if I ever find myself in such an unpleasant situation again.

[TwilightKnight]

Doug Doug wrote:

It depends on the players at the table. If they are experienced players and should know better I would let them have it. No intelligent enemy would leave opponents at his back.

Doug, for future reference, I am a novice player ;-P

[The Admiral Jose Monkamuck]

If he's that intelligent why not have him bargain with them?

"I'll spare their lives if you can give me X and guarantee my safety till I get clear."

He doesn't want to die (well...re-die anyway) of course if he's outnumbered by adventurers he might start thinking of way to turn this to his advantage.

If course Doug Doug's idea is good too. :)

[KenderKin]

Good reason to bring back the scent feat....

The ghast should smell in about a 10 foot radius....

I am picturing these two PC's in the alcove, smelling this horrible odor, and looking at each other and pointing as the Ghast gets ahold of them.....

Very three stooges PF,

[TwilightKnight]

Sometimes you have to kill a PC for their own good. I recently ran a mod with an earth elemental. As PC's dropped one after another due to its powerful attacks, they just kept melee'ing until only one PC remained. He finally fled escaping due to a combined high AC and mobility. Later, two of the deceased we're raised but three other chose to remain dead. The three surviving PC's returned and used magic, from range, to destroy the elemental without taking as much as a point of damage. Initially, I felt bad for the dead PC's. However, after thinking about it, they used bad tactics and refused to back down. I'm fairly confident that should they be presented with such a formidable opponent in the future, the players will make better decisions.

[uncleden]

Yaramos wrote:

I ran "Black Waters" over this weekend and ended up in a bit of a dilema, one that cost a PC his life.

** spoiler omitted **

I guess this boils down to a more fundamental question - how to play intelligent evil? I feel that the game is more fun when there is actually a chance that your character can die. Intelligent creatures are where I feel this danger lies. While it's easy to have a mindless creature switch from the incapacitated character to whoever struck it last, I feel the smarter ones will be more methodical in how they deal with the heroes.

I don't like killing PCs. However, other than blantanly going "Well, everyone else ran away and left you to die but instead I'm going to run out and chase the rest of the party" I didn't see away around this. While I don't think that the players (especially the one who died) would have objected, it seems like it turns the game into a "show up and win" scenario with no challenge.

I'd like to know if there's any official stance on something like this, as...

A little different to Dougs answer, i would likely spread a full attack on the paralyzed PCs Then round after round I'd let the players hear their friend bleeding out as they try to stabilize. If they took too long they would have to find where i hid their friend. If still not aiding their team mate, i'd feel ok that it was them and not me as a judge.

Coup de gras just doesn't have that kind of thrill at low levels.

I'm not saying that I am never going to use coup de gras, just not in a case like this. When i have used it. A pc got paralyzed by hold person. The villain immediately says "drop your weapons or your buddy dies." they then fail to drop their weapons or drop the villain or actually get to where the villain will have to eat AOOs for what he is about to do. Then yeah, save or die unless all this damage already kills you.

[Euan]

'for their own good' is not correct. Kill them for the good of PFS. One thing I do not like is the idea that Living Greyhawk players cannot die. I've heard it reliably from many sources (OK, they can die, but it's really hard to do - and they have nearly unlimited raise dead potential).

I like the idea that we are on the edge. I've had a character die on me - and managed to squeeze in a raise dead. It added color to the character and makes me appreciate him even more!

If he had simply been swept away and let live, I would have lost a lot of interest in him, and PFS. This is gaming - not life. Death is just fine. :D