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This was brought up in the most recent Pathfinder Chronicle podcast. The idea is basically to just pick up and drop the skill challenge system from 4e into Pathfinder. This seems like it might work out pretty well for players who are looking for something more than just a "I roll my d20" and I was wondering if anyone had any experience in playing this out in an actual game.
I haven't looked too far into it yet and I'd imagine it would require a little bit of conversion.
Your thoughts?
I don't nessessarily agree with taking anything from 4e. When it comes to skill challenges in 4e its like "ok u can do either athletics or survival to pass this. Oh look u rolled a nat 20. Ok u get past this. Next part of the adventure." With pathfinder I like to present the players with the problem and then let them ask if they can make particular skill checks to either get past or help them get past the obstacle. And all players are gonna have to make some sort of skill check to get past it. I don't see how 2 people can make an athletics roll and everyone gets past the narrow log bridge.
I say give them the situation and let them figure it out instead of telling them to give u a check from a few skills. The players need to figure out answers to their problems. Its kinda like presenting them with a puzzle. U don't want to say gimme a skill check and then they get past it. Give them hints and help instead of answers. That's what make pathfinder different from 4e.
I did it, but it is more complex in 3.5
In 4E everyone increases all their skills a bit each 2 levels. So the difference between someone focused in a skill and someone that neglects it isn't so big, everyone can fail and succeed.
However in 3.5 a mid level character will automatically succeed against a DC that other character will automatically fail.
That table shows generic skill modifiers you can expect from PC's (standard wealth per level)
PC Level 1 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 19 20
Null +0
Barely Trained +0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +9 +10
Trained +6 +7 +9 +11 +14 +17 +19 +20 +24 +26 +28 +29
Specialist +8 +9 +12 +14 +17 +20 +23 +24 +29 +31 +34 +38
Super-Spec +11 +12 +15 +17 +20 +26 +29 +30 +35 +37 +40 +44
That other table shows skill DCs to challenge PCs of different levels (or Skill Challenge Level), IMO
LEVEL Easy Moderate Difficult
1-2 5-6 10-11 14-15
3-4 6-7 12-13 16-17
5-6 7-8 14-15 18-19
7-8 8-9 16-18 20-22
9-10 9-10 19-21 23-25
11-12 10-11 22-23 26-27
13-14 11-12 24-25 28-29
15-16 12-13 26-28 30-32
17-18 13-14 29-30 33-34
19-20 14-15 32-33 36-37
Very Difficult: DC + 1/2 level (min +1)
Very Easy: DC 4 for any level
Experience: complexity x XPs granted by a creature of the Challenge level -2.
(it is different because in 4E monster levels are higher than what you expect for CRs)
Fun you should mention this. I might have exactly what you are looking for. You should check out our product Skill Encounter: Non-Combat Challenges on sale at Paizo.
Check out our website as well. We've posted the basic rules for Skill Encounters in our downloads section. We've modified the format quite a bit attempting to work out some of the kinks as well as translate it to Pathfinder/3.5 but the basic idea is the same.
You can also check out a reviewof the Skill Encounters: Non-Combat Challenges over at EN World (it was also repeated at RPG.net.)
Lastly we just released the 2nd in the Skill Encounter series Skill Encounters: Deadly Challenges - Traps.
Anyways hope this help. Let me know if you have any questions.
All the best.
Robert Hahn
www.4th-dimensiongames.com
For Gamers By Gamers. Level up your game!
... When it comes to skill challenges in 4e its like "ok u can do either athletics or survival to pass this. Oh look u rolled a nat 20. Ok u get past this. Next part of the adventure." With pathfinder I like to present the players with the problem and then let them ask if they can make particular skill checks to either get past or help them get past the obstacle. ... Its kinda like presenting them with a puzzle. U don't want to say gimme a skill check and then they get past it. Give them hints and help instead of answers. That's what make pathfinder different from 4e.
Quite honestly, if that's how the skill challenges are being run, then I'm not surprised you wouldn't like them.
I did an article over on Kobold Quarterly that talked about abstracting things out and creating the details for those challenges, even working to handle failure. (and to be sneaksy-previewy, there's one in Rite Publishing's Breaking of Forstor Nagar for Pathfinder)
Done properly, with its own scenes and special conditions for scenes, a skill challenge can be a fantastic addition to an adventure. Consider how many combats you've seen or run that go along the lines of "Oh, you rolled a nat 20. Ok, you hit. Roll damage. It's dead. Time for loots." Hell, I listened to a podcast the other day that wasn't far from that and thought, "Dear god, this is painful, and they're having fun!"
The game needs its delicious flavor text. Skill Challenges (or Complex Skill Checks, as they were known in 3.5/d20) are still a newish mechanic that haven't yet matured or become ingrained in the d20 gamer consciousness and that means we're going to have to work on that, and do it well in order to avoid what you're highlighting here. Bare bones of any encounter is boring. It all needs the delicious flavor.
-Ben.