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PG 33 of Dragons Revisited has a dragon named Tyraxalan, who apparently has a resistance group that's been fighting against the powers that be since Chilax fell, this group is based in Westcrown...
Do you plan on incorporating this group into your games? I'm unsure if I should or not, by adding this much power (a CR 19 Copper and his troops) may significantly change the end game, however I've stated before that I'm also looking at the lvl 20 overthrow the Asmodian worshipers story arc, and that would be a good friend to have.
What do the boards think?
Part of my issues are that I tend to like the world that Paizo has created, so I'm unsure if I want to remove elements that I have read about in the books.
Balancing that issue is really the problem of adding that powerful of a contact to the game. And again, it's good for the later game... I might have them fully show up after the events of the Adventure Path... I dunno, I'll see what comes up in the discussion.
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The problem is that Trylaxan was part of Mike McArtor's idea of dragons rubbing shoulders with humans in Golarion. The dragon from Olfden, whatever his name was, was also written up in this vein.
Once Mike left Paizo, several of his ideas that didn't fit with Erik's and James' vision of Golarion got rolled back. Among them was the presence of dragons - IIRC, James did say that dragons hanging out in taverns was far too Forogtten Realmsy and didn't fit with the idea of Golarion being less "powered up" than the Realms are. Likely, the revised Campiagn Setting will alter the dragon status quo.
As a consequence, Trylaxan got cut out off CoT, and isn't mentioned anywhere. Which, I think, is good, because as the AP is written at some point it would be more than logical for a CR 19 dragon to get down and funky on the bad guys. Which would cause all kinds of storyline and balance problems.
I think it's best just to ignore Trylaxan, or make him a weaker dragon associated with Children of Westcrown.
Oh, okay... Hmm. Okay. I was under the impression that all the PF stuff was "as a whole" as it were. I suppose I need to look at the stuff that is printed for the "new gen" of Golarian adventuring.
Thanks.
Yah, I've taken most of my home material from the Chilax book and the stuff in the AP itself. Putting pieces together from various sources as I can find them (such as the question that started this thread). As a side note, is there anything major in The great beyond that's been noted as non applicable so far? There is an element of my players that are really asking to overthrow the rulers of Cheliax... and I think I'm going to take them into plainer travel to do that.
My thought, however dangerous, suggest that they release Ravogog, and his desire to be revenged upon Asmodius will distract Asmodius enough so he's not focusing on anything other than the fight.... that would buy the PC's enough time to launch an assault on the capital.
Creative Director
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If you like the idea of a disguised dragon interacting with a campaign and helping/hindering things, as is the case with several dragons in Dragons Revisited, by all means run with them in your game!
The reason that Tyraxalan isn't even mentioned once in all of Council of Thieves is precisely as Gorbacz mentions—the concept of dragons interacting with humanoid society while disguised as humans doesn't fit with how Golarion has developed. It's a fun way to include dragons in a game, but it's also more or less been done to death, in my opinion, in the Forgotten Realms and (to a lesser extent) in Dragonlance.
Dragons in Golarion actually LIKE being dragons, and they enjoy the power and awe their true forms exude. Dragons that disguise themselves as humanoids and spend a majority of their time in this form are exceptions, and are generally thought of as insane or mad by other dragons. Usually, those other dragons are right. We've had one such dragon do this type of thing in an AP already, and he most certainly WAS insane.
Golarion is a relatively humanocentric place as well, and my preference is that if you have a humanoid-shaped major NPC... that NPC should BE a human or close analogue (such as an elf or whatever). The only time you should have such an NPC be something shapechanged into a human is when the element of deception is key to the plot.
In the case of Tyraxalan, that deception is not key to the plot; his role doesn't change really at all if he's a human helping fight against the new government.
First off; Thank you James Jacobs, I love it when a gaming company cares enough to interact with it's players. I've been a fan of Hero games for years, and I've been an active person on their boards since '03... and one of the reasons for this is the interaction between DOJ and us, the fanbase (Steve is very interactive with us I'm reminded of the same vibe here). One of the reasons I'm starting to get into Paizo is that same level of respect and dedication. Thank you all, and keep it going. :)
Well, looking at that response I think I'll mix the two. The portion talking about the age/ general non-interaction by the Westcrani people and the sewers.... hmm. Well, hows this:
Tyraxalan is as he is described in the dragons book, however, he is not assumed the shape of a human. He has had time to establish a group of followers, a set of resources. He has allied himself with the family of Kajen Tilernos (a head of the Tilernos family, and a Paladin of Iomedae), Tyraxalan has made a lair for himself under the family home in the sewers (or at least branching off from the sewers) and he uses one of the grates as an entrance/ exit. He doesn't enjoy keeping himself in the shape of a human, however he understands how unhealthy to exit the lair without a disguise, and so has hidden himself as a number of creatures etc. In fact more than a few noble Chilaxian (Asmodian loyalist) families have had issue for some time now with flock being lost to "beasts of the forest."
Both Kajen and Tyraxalan have been running a rebellion, but a quiet, underground. It isn't full of active members, but it's responsible for most of the "freedoms" and "good acts" that have survived legally.
It's a rough draft, but I think it'll do for now. That way most of their power is political, and not directly physical... That will help them in being able to help more during the late game, and I can ally the PC's with Kajen openly, without reveling Tyraxalan until after the AP is done.
How does that sound?
Or what if Tyraxalan is either waning, diminished, injured, bound or otherwise reduced in power from his prime?
Perhaps in the process of fighting to stabilize Westcrown at some point, he was poisoned, cursed or bound so that now he lives below the city, served by a small group of dedicated followers. He still fights the good fight, but must do so through others.
That allows a potential future ally for the PCs post-CoT, but only if the PCs can remove the binding that keeps him trapped in whatever virtual prison he languishes within. It also tells the PC's that they should be wary as their opponents were powerful enough to take out a mature copper. Just be sure you want the PC's knowing anything that Tyraxalan is willing to tell them.
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Or what if Tyraxalan is either waning, diminished, injured, bound or otherwise reduced in power from his prime?
I really like this idea. I think I'll snag it incase my group goes beyond the AP. It all depends on what other APs are around at the time, and if the players want to keep going or start a new campaign.
You could also stipulate that "your" Tyraxalan was bound in a similar manner to a certain other critter.
When said certain other critter breaks free/is released, draw the parallels to Tyraxalan. Or ... swap accordingly, with the period of being bound having driven Tyraxalan nutters ...
Alternatively, maybe he has decided that he wants to take a backseat and allow the humans to make their own freedom, while secretly funding groups he sees as positive developments (like, say, the Children of Westcrown).
I like the idea of a somehow "reduced" dragon. I think I'll have Kajen Tilernos be in cahoots with Tyraxalan and watching the PC's. They ended up treating the opera singer so well, they got an invite and so interacted with much of the upper crust that was there that night.
If they go beyond the AP then they will see the "power" behind Kajen and "his" freedom fighters.
After rereading my copy of Dragons Revisited, and being a fan of draconic intrigues, here's how I'll be using Tyraxalan in my game:
"Tyrax the Scribe", a half-elf follower of Milani, founded a resistance group thirty years ago after the coming of the shadowbeasts and curfew, with the aid of the Tilernos family. He was eventually arrested, taking the fall so that his agents could escape, and charged with heresy, blasphemy, and conspiracy to commit treason, though direct treason could never be proven. Due to his Tilernos connections, he served his 30-year sentence in Westcrown, and was never handed over to either Thrune or the Order of the Rack. Thirty years later (a trivial amount of time for a dragon), "Tyrax" is somewhat mellowed, craftier, and though he was somewhat depowered by a Thrunish curse and had most of his assets seized, he still has connections with which he'll act as something of an Obi-Wan-style mentor to the newer generation Wiscrani resistance.
And likewise in my game, his half-elven guise is an old family friend to one of my PCs, Luca Valenti, a firebrand whose father, a printer/bookbinder, was Disappeared semi-recently by the Order of the Rack. As it turns out, the missing Pavo Valenti was once in Tyrax's group, when Pavo was about the age that Luca is now. :3
Could the curse have affected Tyraxalan sufficiently that he's more or less incapable of action, and now he's known as Bluehood, funder of activists?
Hum... I'm planning to use Tyrax as a new government council member since the players are countinuing playing Council of Thieves after Book 6 and are now ruling the city.
The players are evil PCs so Tyrax keeping an eye on them is a good plot point and will eventually step in to stop their evil plans.
But maybe it's a 3.5 thing that I don't get or a retcon because Dragons Revisited don't fit anymore into Golarion but ... How can dragons disguise themselves as human in society? Do they usually wear some magical item, cast "Veil" on them or something? Looking at Tyrax stat block, I don't see how he can be disguised as a human.