Can you Rapid Shot Eldritch Blasts?(3.5 warlock)
The 3.5 Warlocks Eldritch blasts are based of the characters BAB for number of blasts.
Eldritch Blast qualifies for Point Blank and Precise Shot and Rapid Shot is worded much the same as these two feats. They specifically say 'weapon' in the text, but it has already been clarified that rays and spells that requires a ranged atk qualify as a 'weapon' in these cases.
Rapid Shot- When making a full-attack action with a ranged
weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of
your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using
Rapid Shot.
You can indeed atk with Eldritch Blast as a full-attack action and it counts as a 'weapon' so I see no reason for this not to work.
Thoughts? Arguments? Objections?
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Can you Rapid Shot Eldritch Blasts?(3.5 warlock)
The 3.5 Warlocks Eldritch blasts are based of the characters BAB for number of blasts.
Eldritch Blast qualifies for Point Blank and Precise Shot and Rapid Shot is worded much the same as these two feats. They specifically say 'weapon' in the text, but it has already been clarified that rays and spells that requires a ranged atk qualify as a 'weapon' in these cases.Rapid Shot- When making a full-attack action with a ranged
weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of
your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using
Rapid Shot.You can indeed atk with Eldritch Blast as a full-attack action and it counts as a 'weapon' so I see no reason for this not to work.
Thoughts? Arguments? Objections?
Using EB is a Standard Action. You only get one per round, unless you get the quicken SLA. That's it, no more than two per round and that's only at like 12th lvl when you can pick up QSLA. You've never been able to get iterative attacks with an Eldritch Blast.
Using EB is a Standard Action. You only get one per round, unless you get the quicken SLA. That's it, no more than two per round and that's only at like 12th lvl when you can pick up QSLA. You've never been able to get iterative attacks with an Eldritch Blast.
Hmmm, I'll have to double check that I thought it was a standard atk for an EB meaning you could get iterative atks.
If that's not the case then I may have to 'Paizofy' the Warlock somehow, as it will be very underpowered compared to the Pathfinders Core Classes.
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Using EB is a Standard Action. You only get one per round, unless you get the quicken SLA. That's it, no more than two per round and that's only at like 12th lvl when you can pick up QSLA. You've never been able to get iterative attacks with an Eldritch Blast.Hmmm, I'll have to double check that I thought it was a standard atk for an EB meaning you could get iterative atks.
If that's not the case then I may have to 'Paizofy' the Warlock somehow, as it will be very underpowered compared to the Pathfinders Core Classes.
In the errata for Comp Arcane they specified that EB is an invocation, and all of the Warlock's invocations are standard actions.
And you really think having an ability at will that does 1d6 every other level and is a touch attack is weak compared to pathfinder classes? The alchemist's bombs are close to that, but they only get so many bombs per day, a warlock can EB all day long. Sure, an alchemist gets splash damage, but a warlock can chain or cone or spread his blast. The original reason for giving the base classes a boost from 3.5 to pathfinder was to bring them up to the same level as classes like the warlock.
When using the eldritch glaive invocation, it specifies that you get iterative eldritch blast melee attacks, but it definitely doesn't mention anything about iterative regular eldritch blast attacks. The problem you're going to run into with house-ruling the class is that, whereas at high-levels the lack of iterative attacks is underpowered, I think you'll quickly find that the addition of iterative attacks will be overpowered. 27d6/round as ranged touch attacks with good range so you never even have to move to get into position? Actually, that sounds like a lot, but I guess average damage would only be around 100 or so, so maybe it's not that bad.
At 11th level, in our gaming group, most characters can do an average aprox. 40-50pts of damage a round in an all out attack whether they be caster or martial.
A 11th level Warlock with NON-ENHANCED Eldritch Blasts house-ruled to an atk action would do 12d6 in a round which averages to 42pts of damage with ranged touch atk.This would fall in line with avg party damage, BUT as a touch atk it may be a little broken as it will almost always hit.
On top of that it would qualify for the Rapid Shot Feat making it Aproximately 62pts per round with only a -2 to a ranged touch atk(hardly noticeable) at which point I would call it overpowered.
This may require a bit of thought to make balanced...
In the errata for Comp Arcane they specified that EB is an invocation, and all of the Warlock's invocations are standard actions.
And you really think having an ability at will that does 1d6 every other level and is a touch attack is weak compared to pathfinder classes? The alchemist's bombs are close to that, but they only get so many bombs per day, a warlock can EB all day long. Sure, an alchemist gets splash damage, but a warlock can chain or cone or spread his blast. The original reason for giving the base classes a boost from 3.5 to pathfinder was to bring them up to the same level as classes like the warlock.
Good to know, thanks.
I've noticed Paizo's standard for average class ability damage across ALL classes seems to always average out to about 1d6/per 2 levels. It seems to be their baseline. Which means the amount of dmg isn't out of line it's the fact that you can do it as a touch atk all day long.
Maybe the solution is to limit the number of uses per day similar to the alchemist.
Also the alchemist can do a decent amount of damage with splash on top of their initial damage plus get buffs for the bombs so yeah I would still say it's much more powerful than a standard Warlock.
If houseruled, I would consider a limited number of Non-Enhanced EB's/day as standard atks = the alchemists bomb ability.
The Warlock's EB isn't about damage.
Sure, the damage is nice (rarely miss, etc) but its really about debuffing and debuffing multiple targets.
Check through the Essence enhancements. *alot* of them debuff the opponent and the higher you get the better the debuffs get. That's really what the Blast is all about, moreso than sheer damage potential.
-S
And you really think having an ability at will that does 1d6 every other level and is a touch attack is weak compared to pathfinder classes? The alchemist's bombs are close to that, but they only get so many bombs per day, a warlock can EB all day long. Sure, an alchemist gets splash damage, but a warlock can chain or cone or spread his blast. The original reason for giving the base classes a boost from 3.5 to pathfinder was to bring them up to the same level as classes like the warlock.
Sorry there Eric, didn't see you had mentioned splash damage and chaining blasts in my other response. You have a valid point. I think I am going to re-examine the Warlock in relation to the Alchemist. I think having Invocations work at the same progression as Discoveries and limiting the # of EB's/day while making them a standard atk(and in general looking for similar mechanics to the Alchemist and adjusting accordingly) would bring this class in line.
The focus wouldn't be on damage or status conditions but a mix of both.
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*Sigh* This thread is really making me miss playing my warlock... I used to love seeing the look on my dm's face when I would chain my nauseous blast and cause all his monsters to be out of the fight. :)
And I'll never forget the look on his face when I Destroyed his leveled magic itemed Beholder with UMD from a scroll.. Ahhh.... :D
And you really think having an ability at will that does 1d6 every other level and is a touch attack is weak compared to pathfinder classes? The alchemist's bombs are close to that, but they only get so many bombs per day, a warlock can EB all day long. Sure, an alchemist gets splash damage, but a warlock can chain or cone or spread his blast. The original reason for giving the base classes a boost from 3.5 to pathfinder was to bring them up to the same level as classes like the warlock.Sorry there Eric, didn't see you had mentioned splash damage and chaining blasts in my other response. You have a valid point. I think I am going to re-examine the Warlock in relation to the Alchemist. I think having Invocations work at the same progression as Discoveries and limiting the # of EB's/day while making them a standard atk(and in general looking for similar mechanics to the Alchemist and adjusting accordingly) would bring this class in line.
The focus wouldn't be on damage or status conditions but a mix of both.
Perhaps instead of just making the the blast work as an attack automaticly, create a invocation to let you full attack with it, like the alchemist fast bombs discovery.