Age of Worms 4E Conversion: Three Faces of Evil


4th Edition


A friend of mine asked me to DM for a new group he's forming, so I wrote back, that I'd love to, that I've been wanting to run the Age of Worms campaign for a while, and that this would give me a chance to do that. I then went and downloaded all of the modules. Perhaps I should have waited because later, he wrote me back and said, "You realize we're playing 4E, right?"

Anyway, rather than eating 60 bucks, I decided to try and convert the Age of Worms to 4E.

I've already converted the first module with no problems. However, I'm working on the second one and I have a question. In the Citadel of Hextor, there are a lot of different groups in different rooms who try to lure the PCs into the Battle Temple of Hextor. There, they have a pretty epic battle with all the different groups attacking the PCs at once.

Now this works fine in 3.5, since a party can basically go through five encounters before they need to replenish resources for the day. However, since resources in 4E are encounter based, and since each of these encounters occurs one right after the other, I'm worried that if I try to bring multiple encounters together like this, it will be too much for the party.

Now I've thought of a few ways to overcome this problem. One is to give the PCs an opportunity to recharge their encounter powers throughout the combat the way some monsters do by rolling a 5 or a 6. Another is to just count up the number of individual encounters in the temple and allow the PCs to use their encounter powers that many times. Still another is to adjust the levels of the cultists so that all of the encounters are treated as one large encounter.

Personally, I like the first option the best because I think it prevents the players from just burning through their encounter powers all at once. However, if they don't roll those numbers often enough, it could turn into a blood bath, which is why I'm thinking maybe I should give them all their encounter powers up front. Personally, I don't like the last option at all, because if the players are smart and are somehow able to take the different groups on one at a time, it will be way too easy for them. However, maybe that's the way to go.

Since this is really my first ever 4E game, I'm curious to know what others think. How would you handle this combat scenario?


I haven't seen the specific adventure, so I'm not sure what my absolute answer would be. However, I'd go with one of two options, along the lines of what you are already looking at.

Option 1: One Big Encounter.

Basically, you expect all the enemies to get drawn into the encounter, so you plan it out as a single fight in advance. Liberal use of minions helps with this. Feel free to design it as a higher level encounter than the party might normally face, since enemies coming at them in waves should makes things somewhat easier.

As you mention, the PCs might take them all on individually and have an easy time of it. But if they can do that, the same will likely be true no matter what approach you take. And each fight might be an 'easy' fight, but still will drain some resources

I don't know what level this is at, but to illustrate, here are some numbers for a level 4 party of 5 PCs.

A level 2 encounter (an easy fight for them) is 625 xp. A level 8 encounter (a really tough fight for them) is 1,750 xp. So three level 2 fights combining into one comes out to 1,875 xp - just over a really tough normal fight! So if those three fights are joined, with enemies joining in over the course of numerous rounds so it isn't too deadly right from the start, the result is a tough but doable fight. Worst case, the PCs fight several easy fights, but none so low-level as to be completely trivial.

Option 2: Recharging Powers.

In this case, I wouldn't have powers recharged based on simply dice rolls or the like - instead, have specific elements in the encounter that can do so. This could be location or terrain based - perhaps there is an evil altar in the room, and if a PC reaches it and topples it over, they recharge an encounter power and can spend a healing surge. Perhaps this is goal based - the cultists have a number of leaders, and each time one gets taken out, the PCs regain an encounter power of second wind.

Stuff like that can make for a dynamic encounter, and if each room has these sort of elements scattered through it, the recharging will come naturally as they progress, rather than being tied to random chance or simpy DM fiat.

I still wouldn't make each fight too dangerous in its own right, since even if the PCs are having opportunities to refresh powers and spend surges, too many enemies at once can really overwhelm them. But you can definitely up the ante a bit more than normal, and force them to fight through a lot more enemies than they would expect, while giving them the tools to still come out triumphant.


DoveArrow wrote:

A friend of mine asked me to DM for a new group he's forming, so I wrote back, that I'd love to, that I've been wanting to run the Age of Worms campaign for a while, and that this would give me a chance to do that. I then went and downloaded all of the modules. Perhaps I should have waited because later, he wrote me back and said, "You realize we're playing 4E, right?"

Anyway, rather than eating 60 bucks, I decided to try and convert the Age of Worms to 4E.

I've already converted the first module with no problems. However, I'm working on the second one and I have a question. In the Citadel of Hextor, there are a lot of different groups in different rooms who try to lure the PCs into the Battle Temple of Hextor. There, they have a pretty epic battle with all the different groups attacking the PCs at once.

Now this works fine in 3.5, since a party can basically go through five encounters before they need to replenish resources for the day. However, since resources in 4E are encounter based, and since each of these encounters occurs one right after the other, I'm worried that if I try to bring multiple encounters together like this, it will be too much for the party.

Now I've thought of a few ways to overcome this problem. One is to give the PCs an opportunity to recharge their encounter powers throughout the combat the way some monsters do by rolling a 5 or a 6. Another is to just count up the number of individual encounters in the temple and allow the PCs to use their encounter powers that many times. Still another is to adjust the levels of the cultists so that all of the encounters are treated as one large encounter.

Personally, I like the first option the best because I think it prevents the players from just burning through their encounter powers all at once. However, if they don't roll those numbers often enough, it could turn into a blood bath, which is why I'm thinking maybe I should give them all their encounter powers up front. Personally, I don't like the last option at all, because if...

I've done a full conversion of 3FoE, in fact my players are just about to fight The Faceless One and then its on to Blackwall Keep which I'm about 3/4s the way through converting.

You'd actually see me struggling with this very issue one these boards about a month ago in a thread called 'Questions'.

What I found, for 4E, was that it was easiest to look at the gestalt of the adventures layout and then work out how many actual encounters that was, as opposed to the room by room layout that you are actually reading.

So in 4E terms the Temple of Hextor is Encounter #1 and in this we have the skeletons with the alarm system (the bells attached), which will bring in the cultists from the room on the left and the Tieflings from the room on the right. The encounter is complex because the cultists will not stay in the fight - they flee to the battle arena trying to get the PCs to follow them, while the Tieflings will try and flee, but they want to unlock the Dire Boar to cover their retreat back to their brethren.

So you see. when reading this module, room #1, room #2...up to I believe Room #6. But its not six encounters - its Encounter #1, all of it. Truth be told my write up actually is stuck in the layout of room #1, Room #2...up to Room #6 because this was the encounter that taught me (with some advice from these boards) to think of encounters from a higher level but I had already written it out is smaller chunks.

OK so the entire Temple of Hextor is actually two encounters - the first one which I've mentioned (and will come back to in a moment) and a second one that either takes place in the Battle Arena if the PCs fall for the trap or takes place along the side of the Arena if the PCs are smart and take that route.

Its odd to think of an encounter as potentially taking place in two different locals but with the same people but its certainly do able.

Because there are only two actual fights here you've got a budget for what amounts to two encounters. Since its only two fights before they can (and should) take a long rest set that budget near the max. Thinking about that first encounter I know your worried that your going to overwhelm your poor players...I was worried too but thats not what happened. I gave a budget that was 2 xp shy of being beyond the recommended encounter level for a party of my groups level but it was not that hard in practice, my players used a few action points (making sure no cultists actually escaped) but no daily's.

The reality is that the players have several rounds alone with the skeletons before the rabble and the Tieflings show up, the rabble and the tieflings don't concentrate on them really because they are busy trying to get to either the battle arena (rabble) or free Beast - the nasty Dire Boar. That means that the players get to mostly deal with each group for some rounds before new baddies show up and, believe me, this makes the encounter a LOT easier on them. In my case the last skeleton went down the round after the rabble appeared, the rabble was dispatched about around after the Tie flings showed up and the last Tiefling just managed to open the lock to Beasts lair before dropping. The boar gave them a brief scare as they where out of encounter powers but all alone it was no match.

The same deal more or less applies to the second encounter - make it real tough but consider that even if the players fall for the ambush (so long as they are not real dumb and wander into it without a short rest) the whole enemy complex is not at the actual arena - they'll come streaming into the arena over the next 4 rounds or so even being nice about their reaction time so the players have a fair bit of time to identify the weak statue and run up it, if that happens some of the bad guys are supposed to go and then get the zombies, more lost time there. Hence the players never fight everyone at once.

Lastly if they take door #2 (as my players did) then they end up in a running battle with the bad guys shooting at them while trying to retreat to the next room where more baddies can support them. What happened for me was a fight that finally ended back in the temple room but generally meant that the first enemies encountered where dispatched not to long after they had retreated back to the room with the next group of enemies.

So some final thoughts - they don't need recharges if you insure that this is all really two encounters. The first part plays that way by module description and the second part does if they screw up and should (by having the bad guys fall back while shooting) if they take door #2. You should do that because many small super easy encounters is just boring and you need things to be reasonable if very hard if they do enter the battle arena. Hence you have to design the second part as one encounter budget anyway, your just left with how you'll play it out.

Also you seem to want to encourage them to save encounter powers - I recommend you don't do that, you want them to burn their encounter powers early. Encounter powers are fun and flashy, at wills usually not so much. You'll get the best long term play experience if they use their flashy stuff every combat. Makes the combats faster and helps to avoid grind. Some encounter powers, by design come later - ones that give healing or saves and such but the combats will generally be quicker and full of more exciting moments if they use the encounter powers instead of saving them for an emergency, which will probably not even occure in most combats. Having them decide to use the encounter powers at the end when they know they have won is not nearly so exciting at the table. Hence - like action points, encourage them to 'go for it'. Their dailies are their - oh s##& we are in it deep reserve. Those they should usually save.

Good luck with your conversion and if you have any questions etc. there is a trhead devoted to converting Age of Worms to 4E in the Age of Worms section of the board - I post a fair number of my thoughts there and would be happy to get more of a dialog going with a fellow 4E converter.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Look at me. I'm helpful.

I think you're right. I think I need to think of these as two large encounters instead of multiple, smaller encounters.

I went back through what I've written, made a few revisions, and decided to divide the encounters up thus:

Level 6 Encounter (XP 1,250)
-4 tiefling guards (level 3 soldier) (area 1)
-8 decrepit skeletons (level 1 minion) (area 2)
-4 Hextor cult fanatics (level 5 minion) (area 3)
-1 dire boar (level 6 brute) (area 5)

Level 7 Encounter (XP 1,638)
-4 Hextor cult fanatics (level 5 minion) (area 3)
-4 tiefling guards (level 3 soldier) (areas 4 and 6)
-Garras (level 4 soldier) (area 8)
-Kendra (level 4 controller) (area 8)
-4 troglodyte zombies (level 4 minion) (area 9)
-Theldrick (level 5 elite controller) (area 10)

The module calls for two tiefling guards in area 6, but adding an extra guard bumps the encounter up to level 8, so I took it out. However, even with that adjustment, I'm still concerned that this second encounter is a little too powerful. After all, the PCs are only about level 3 at this point, and the DMG says encounters shouldn't be more than three levels higher than the party.

On the other hand, the PCs could very easily take out a few Hextor cult fanatics, as well as a tiefling guard or two, before they reach the battle temple. If they did that, that would reduce the encounter level of the second encounter.

I don't know. Thoughts?


You have "4 tiefling guards (level 3 soldier) (areas 4 and 6)" but here you need to be breaking them up as Tieflings at area #4 are going to be part of encounter #1 while Tieflings at area #6 are part of encounter #2.

Also "-4 Hextor cult fanatics (level 5 minion) (area 3)" are listed as part of encounter #2 but in fact they are part of encounter #1.

I understand that some of these guys may be trying to retreat and therefore may play a role in both encounters but you should probably only budget them for the encounter where they first make an appearance unless there is going to be enough time for them to heal up and such for the second.

This is especially true for your minion cultists in area #3. If they move into room #2 while the PCs are in that room and then try and retreat - as the module indicates their plan is, I don't give them a snowballs chance in hell of pulling it off. The PCs will nearly certainly cut them down before they can escape and/or kill them with ranged fire from the doorway to the battle arena. Minions are a lot of fun but they under perform at every level in my experience.

If your nervous about the encounter lethality slow down the reaction times of the various people in getting to the battle arena. Your biggest fear in terms of having a TPK in this part of the adventure is really if the PCs don't take a short rest between encounter #1 and #2 and instead enter the battle arena and get trapped there.

Otherwise, so long as your giving your players a round or two between various enemies showing up on the scene I suspect it'll all be fine. That said you know your players party better then I and have seen them in Whispering Cairn. If your really concerned with the power level based on your experience with them then you can make a few cuts...but I honestly doubt its needed. Maybe a better option is to be willing to delay for a round or two how fast the next group of baddies shows up on the scene if your players are getting their butts handed to them. Essentially by the end of these two encounters your going to have a good feel for how 'wave' type fights play out but its a bit nerve racking the first time (and maybe with good reason in 3.5 a lot of groups ended up with a TPK here).

Also my understanding is the Tiefling Guards don't enter the battle arena, they know its just bait for a trap and they don't want to be bait. They instead head for area #6...which could well be what tips the players off to try bust down that door.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
You have "4 tiefling guards (level 3 soldier) (areas 4 and 6)" but here you need to be breaking them up as Tieflings at area #4 are going to be part of encounter #1 while Tieflings at area #6 are part of encounter #2.

Well, the module is a little unclear about what these guards do. However, I see your point. If these guards are part of the first encounter, it lowers the rating of the second encounter. On the other hand, if I move both of them over, it bumps the first encounter up to level 7, and it makes the second encounter less challenging than the first.

I think what I'll do is remove a couple of guards from area 1. That'll keep the challenge rating of the first encounter exactly where it is, and lower the difficulty of the second encounter to 1,338 XP.

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Also "-4 Hextor cult fanatics (level 5 minion) (area 3)" are listed as part of encounter #2 but in fact they are part of encounter #1.

The module doesn't actually specify how many cultists are in area 3, but it lists them as an EL 3 encounter, with each of the cultists listed as CR 1/3 creatures. I'm therefore assuming that there are about eight or nine of them.

As far as which encounter they're part of, it depends on which part of the module you're reading. One part says that they defend area 2. Another says that they retreat to area 11. Since they don't add that much XP much to the encounter anyway, I decided to split them up into two groups of four, with one heading for the entrance, and the other heading towards the temple.


One idea that came to mind would be seeing if you could add potentially useful terrain for the PCs to take advantage of. The biggest downside of a long, running battle is that PCs will quickly find themselves reduced to using At-Will powers over and over again - and even if they are weathering the waves just fine, it can get dull.

If they can instead intersperse their At-Will powers with Terrain Powers - like knocking over tables, or hurling enemies into spiked walls, or the like - it can keep things dynamic, and even potentially give them a bit of a power boost for when things get rough.

I'm not sure whether, in this specific encounter, there would be the opportunity for such things. But if it could be added, it might give the PCs some useful options.

I don't know if you have it, but DMG2 has a good section on terrain powers, offering some sample ones and advice on designing them - things like boulders you can roll at people, chandelier's you can drop on them, ruined walls you can topple over, etc. If you do have it, even if the specific options aren't appropriate ones, you might be able to reflavor them or redesign them for elements appropriate to this specific encounter.


DoveArrow wrote:


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Also "-4 Hextor cult fanatics (level 5 minion) (area 3)" are listed as part of encounter #2 but in fact they are part of encounter #1.

The module doesn't actually specify how many cultists are in area 3, but it lists them as an EL 3 encounter, with each of the cultists listed as CR 1/3 creatures. I'm therefore assuming that there are about eight or nine of them.

As far as which encounter they're part of, it depends on which part of the module you're reading. One part says that they defend area 2. Another says that they retreat to area 11. Since they don't add that much XP much to the encounter anyway, I decided to split them up into two groups of four, with one heading for the entrance, and the other heading towards the temple.

But they start in area #3. So your encounter #1 plays out something like PCs enter dark cathedral, see tiefling guards - everyone rolls initiative. Tieflings retreat backward past area #2 with the skeletons. PCs give chase and encounter skeletons. Now at this point the cultists in area #3 are alerted by by all the racket and they move to pull off the plan - thing is they can't physically get to area #11 without passing through area #2 - your going to have to roll initiative for them - they are definitely in the first encounter.

In fact, because they are minions I bet they don't live to see area #11, even if there are 8 of them (I had 8 human rabble myself). Here's how I'm guessing it goes down. Players chase tieflings and encounter skeletons. One of them shoots something at the skeletons and its a minion - so it dies. Players realize skeletons represent a negligible threat and delegate 1 or 2 players to 'deal with the skeletons'. The rest of the party moves to continue giving chase. Your tiefling guards are meanwhile either continuing to flee through the door to area #6 or trying to release beast or both.

Players move up to investigate - if the last living tiefling goes through the door to area #6 there is a fairly good chance the PCs may halt...doors are dangerous, anything could be on the other side and your players will likely at least debate what to do here. If the tieflings lock the door to area #6 the PCs will likely let them go - it'll take to long to bust it down to have any hope of catching the fleeing teifling.

Any Tiefling that is fiddling with the chain on beasts door will receive the concentrated firepower of every PC in the area - they will not like the bad guys fiddling with chained doors - it'll scare them that some one put a chain on the door...I mean whatever is on the other side has got to be bad news if the baddies chained the friggen door shut.

In any case while all this is going on the balance of your party has moved more or less into the passage between area #2 and area #11. So the cultists that emerge from area #3 into area #2 physically cannot get to area #11 without getting past the PCs...they'll never pull it off, either Beast won't be out in which case the players have no trouble more or less concentrating fire on them or Beast has been released and the players are freaking out...but if they are their first order of business will be to clear their path of escape...they'll throw everything but the kitchen sink at these minions in order to not have the party split and be able to get the most support against the dire boar.

The same argument applies to any guards placed at area #4 - because they'll only be alerted to the PCs after the PCs are moving physically into area #2 and, because, such guards can't get to area #6 without traveling through area #2 they have to be part of encounter #1 - they'll need to be part of the initiative and thats where the players will engage them - maybe they live to also be part of encounter #2 but they should be paid for in encounter #1s budget.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:
I don't know if you have it, but DMG2 has a good section on terrain powers, offering some sample ones and advice on designing them - things like boulders you can roll at people, chandelier's you can drop on them, ruined walls you can topple over, etc.

The DMG2 also has a section on how to run encounters exactly like the one you're describing - extended battles that would normally encompass multiple encounters under the 4e system, and how to make them work without short rests. Of course, they suggest the obvious tactic of "Ignore the 5-minute requirement for a short rest," but another suggestion they offer, and one that I think is way cooler, is to allow the party to dynamically recover powers or spend surges over the course of the battle by rewarding them for accomplishing certain tasks - ending the encounter in a certain number of rounds, or taking out the orc leader, or wiping out all the minions, things like that. These can be thematic accomplishments, and you can even let the players know about them ahead of time to add the extra tension of trying desperately to get those powers back.

Greg Bilsland (Editor at WotC) runs a really great blog at In the Eye of the Beholder, and just wrote an excellent post on how the DM should feel free to adjust short rests to suit the flow of the game.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
But they start in area #3. So your encounter #1 plays out something like PCs enter dark cathedral, see tiefling guards - everyone rolls initiative. Tieflings retreat backward past area #2 with the skeletons. PCs give chase and encounter skeletons. Now at this point the cultists in area #3 are alerted by by all the racket and they move to pull off the plan - thing is they can't physically get to area #11 without passing through area #2 - your going to have to roll initiative for them - they are definitely in the first encounter.

I'm not entirely sure how things work in 4E, but I know that in 3.5, monster groups that are introduced into an encounter just go at the end of the round. With that in mind, I saw combat going like this:

The PCs encounter the tieflings in area 1. One of the tieflings knocks on the door, alerting the skeletons, who go at the bottom of the round. The skeletons then open the doors leading into area 1, alerting the cultists and the guards in areas 3 and 4; who also go at the bottom of the round. Since nobody gets to go before the cultists, half of them run to area 11, the other half run to area 1, and at least one of them runs to open Beast's cage. Call it a conceit, but I think if I can keep my 8 skeletons and 4 cultists tightly packed around the door, none of the party will be able to get into the temple complex until after Beast has been released.

In any event, the 4 cultists I added to the second encounter only add 88 XP. So whether I add them to the first or the second encounter, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter.

Scott Betts wrote:
Allow the party to dynamically recover powers or spend surges over the course of the battle by rewarding them for accomplishing certain tasks.

I actually plan to do that. There's a statue of the Ebon Aspect in area 11 that the PCs can knock over to reach a balcony that overlooks the temple floor. If they move from the first encounter to the second one in quick succession, I figure they can recharge their encounter powers at that point.


DoveArrow wrote:


I'm not entirely sure how things work in 4E, but I know that in 3.5, monster groups that are introduced into an encounter just go at the end of the round. With that in mind, I saw combat going like this:

The PCs encounter the tieflings in area 1. One of the tieflings knocks on the door, alerting the skeletons, who go at the bottom of the round. The skeletons then open the doors leading into area 1, alerting the cultists and the guards in areas 3 and 4; who also go at the bottom of the round. Since nobody gets to go before the cultists, half of them run to area 11, the other half run to area 1, and at least one of them runs to open Beast's cage. Call it a conceit, but I think if I can keep my 8 skeletons and 4 cultists tightly packed around the door, none of the party will be able to get into the temple complex until after Beast has been released.

I still think that your players can pull this off but it sounds tough. What you describe is not a wave encounter but something close to a standard encounter since everything will be in position extremely quickly.

I'll note that you can run it like this only because your doing a conversion and you expect to change monsters from the 3.5 presentation and are following a budget guideline.

If you ran it like this in 3.5 your players would surely be slaughtered. Your extremely rapidly adding an EL 3 encounter (the initial Tieflings in area #1) to an EL 3 encounter (skeletons area #2) to an EL 3 encounter (cultists from area #3) to an EL 3 encounter (tieflings from area #4) to an EL 4 encounter (beast from area #5). Whats the EL on all that? I no longer know how to work that out but its got to be at least 8. Probably slaughter a 3rd level party.

This is not how the module expects things to play out. According to the tactics section for area #2 the cultists in area #3 react 1d4 rounds from the time they hear the skeletons. While the Tieflings need to make DC 9 listen checks every round their is commotion in area #2 and then, when they hear something, they react in 1d4 rounds. So probably 3-4 rounds after the skeletons start moving the Teiflings are on the move and the Cultists are moving anywhere from 1-4 rounds after the skeletons started moving. Even here the cultists have to transit from area #3 to the doorway to area #5. Then there is a full round action open the door. Maybe beast enters the scene on round 6 if things are working out reasonably well for the bad guys.

What your describing strikes me as far to quick reaction times for the baddies - I mean it sounds like a SWAT team on a really good day.


Its also worth pointing out that the encounter as written for 3.5 was probably too hard. Beast from area #5 is likely the single most dangerous creature in all of 3.5. Age of Worms was extremely popular when it first came out and a lot of groups played it - a lot of them never got past this encounter as the obituaries thread in the Age of Worms forum will make clear. Beast is easily the leader in character deaths in that thread and the next time we really see a character slaughtering creature won't be until Rise of the Runelords when Xensha proceeds to massacre group after group.

When I played this out I went with the set reaction times to avoid the encounter being too hard if the Cultists rolled a 1 and the Tieflings heard the commotion and also rolled a 1 or too easy if the cultists rolled a 4 and the Tieflings where unlucky with their perception checks and then rolled a 4.

I simply had the cultists on the move 3 rounds after the skeletons started to go and the Tieflings on the move 5 rounds after the skeletons where reacting.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

I'll note that you can run it like this only because your doing a conversion and you expect to change monsters from the 3.5 presentation and are following a budget guideline.

If you ran it like this in 3.5 your players would surely be slaughtered. Your extremely rapidly adding an EL 3 encounter (the initial Tieflings in area #1) to an EL 3 encounter (skeletons area #2) to an EL 3 encounter (cultists from area #3) to an EL 3 encounter (tieflings from area #4) to an EL 4 encounter (beast from area #5). Whats the EL on all that? I no longer know how to work that out but its got to be at least 8. Probably slaughter a 3rd level party.

This is not how the module expects things to play out. According to the tactics section for area #2 the cultists in area #3 react 1d4 rounds from the time they hear the skeletons.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the tactics written in the module. What I'm not as aware of is how a 4E game works (which is why I'm here). You mentioned that minions tend to go down pretty quickly. If that's the case, I'm concerned that if I don't have the skeletons and the cultists all moving at the same time, the PCs will slaughter the skeletons before the cultists even have a chance to make it on the scene.

On the other hand, maybe I should have the cultists wait a round or two. Maybe the skeletons are a little more difficult than I currently understand. Again, I don't know. I can adjust the tactics of my monsters a lot to make the encounter more or less challenging. The question is, how much do I adjust them?


Keep in mind, you can even somewhat 'cheat'. If the players are dropping enemies really quickly, you can have the reinforcements show up sooner. If they are having a tough time, the next wave takes longer to arrive.

Basically, I'd had a flexible schedule for the arrivals. The first group might show up between 1 and 3 rounds after the fight starts; the next wave, another 1 to 3 rounds later. That gives you the ability to adapt to how the party is doing, to prevent things from either getting too overwhelming, or being able to walk through it like a series of seperate, easy encounters.


DoveArrow wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

I'll note that you can run it like this only because your doing a conversion and you expect to change monsters from the 3.5 presentation and are following a budget guideline.

If you ran it like this in 3.5 your players would surely be slaughtered. Your extremely rapidly adding an EL 3 encounter (the initial Tieflings in area #1) to an EL 3 encounter (skeletons area #2) to an EL 3 encounter (cultists from area #3) to an EL 3 encounter (tieflings from area #4) to an EL 4 encounter (beast from area #5). Whats the EL on all that? I no longer know how to work that out but its got to be at least 8. Probably slaughter a 3rd level party.

This is not how the module expects things to play out. According to the tactics section for area #2 the cultists in area #3 react 1d4 rounds from the time they hear the skeletons.

Believe me, I'm well aware of the tactics written in the module. What I'm not as aware of is how a 4E game works (which is why I'm here). You mentioned that minions tend to go down pretty quickly. If that's the case, I'm concerned that if I don't have the skeletons and the cultists all moving at the same time, the PCs will slaughter the skeletons before the cultists even have a chance to make it on the scene.

On the other hand, maybe I should have the cultists wait a round or two. Maybe the skeletons are a little more difficult than I currently understand. Again, I don't know. I can adjust the tactics of my monsters a lot to make the encounter more or less challenging. The question is, how much do I adjust them?

Using some kind of an average of what the module describes should get you a pretty good encounter. Even if the skeletons are easy the initial Tieflings, as level 3 Soldiers are not (any one of them can probably soak up roughly 6-8 standard actions from the players) and they're running back toward Beasts lair should keep your players busy until more things show up.

One of the benefits of this style of fight is it feels more dangerous then it actually is which is often what one wants in an encounter - players at the edge of their seats for a bit, but are never totally drained and therefore convinced that their only viable response is to go and spend 8 hours taking a long rest.

Hence a battle with the players well into room #2 and enemies now pouring in from all sides ought to be a very exciting fight. Especially since it keeps happening with one new threat showing up, the players adjusting, then another etc.

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