Now, a great failing of the Arcane Casters was that those who followed the path of the Undead generally found themselves fubared when it came to the blasting part of the job, at least at low levels when the Skeletons were piddly and the enemy has access to Holy Water and the like.
Granted, the Necromancer could always not take Evocation as a prohibited school, but Pathfinder gives us the option to be able to be the spooky pale-looking guy and STILL lob blazing loogies of death at the annoyingly tanned good guys, just at a higher cost in terms of spell slots.
Still, there comes a time when, really, the Necromancer falls flat on his/her/it's face, and the need to come up with a nasty, low-level spell. Most Necromancers at the low levels go along the route of Ray of Enfeeblement to drop the Fighter in his heavy plate or to counter that really big and angry Paladin's power attacks, and Spectral Hand and either Ghoul Touch if we feel like being a right prick, or Chill Touch or Touch of Fatigue if we're trying to not enrage the DM.
Still, that's some really pathetic spellcasting there. Oh, sure, the spells have some great use and the old "PRESS X TO NOT DIE!" or 'Save or Die' as the paleos call it, can be fun, but Necromancers lack a truly offensive spell in the lower bracket of spells.
Here we go, once again assuming the Necro has taken Evocation as a prohibited school. That leaves Acid Splash (Conjuration) as our sole ranged Cantrip spell, Summon Monster I (Conjuration), True Strike (Bleh) (Divination), Hypnotism and Sleep (Enchantment), Color Spray (Illusion) and Animate Rope (Transmutation) as our level 1 'offensive' spells.
2nd level spells are: Acid Arrow (Conjuration), Summon Swarm (Conjuration), Summon Monster II (Conjuration), and possibly Levitate (Transmutation), if you feel like having a boulder floating above the Paladin's head before you cancel the spell. Oddly enough the most effective, if messy, spell in our arsenal if used in such a way.
3rd level spells are: Explosive Runes (Abjuration), Stinking Cloud (Conjuration), Deep Slumber (Enchantment), Beast Shape (Transmutation), Slow (Transmutation) and possibly Flame Arrow (Transmutation).
Not exactly overflowing with blasty goodness, are we? Even if we use the 'fingerbone' feat from the Arcane Manual from D&D (purposefully NOT mentioning the exact names)to add some negative energy damage to the Fear Cones and Strength-sapping Lines, that's still a costly way to deal damage.
So, I came up with these spells. Now I figure they're probably going to make career Evocationists start sharpening their pitchforks and stacking kindling around a large, sturdy pole, hence why I am submitting them here so that they can be brought down to useable levels.
NAMES NOT FINAL
Ray of Scouring: Level 1 Necromancy Spell, effectively similar to Ray of Enfeeblement but causes 1d4 negative Energy Damage, increasing by one die every 4 levels to 4d4 at 12th level.
I think this spell will do the trick. Think Magic Missile but limited to a single target, does minimal damage but still uses an energy type connected to the Spell School, and scales much slower and weaker than an Evocation or Conjuration spell does.
alternatively: Lesser Enervation: Level 1 Necromancy Spell, as Enervation, but drops a target by 1 level for a number of rounds equal to the caster level. If the target is already at level 1 or has 1 HD, it is o HP and falls prone, but is otherwise unharmed. After a number of rounds equal to the Necromancer's caster level, the target is restored to normal health (unless damaged by some other means) and react as per normal.
Now, I think Lesser Enervation has some massive abusive tendencies further ahead, but considering that Enervation is the biggest 'one hit wonder' the non-Evocation Necromancer has, and most creatures around the 7th level aren't really going to flinch at the prospect of taking a 1-4 debuff on their rolls, with a 5-20 hit-points loss. Still, it has no saving throw, although it does have a spell resistance check, so technically for a 1st, 2nd or 3rd level Necromancer, Lesser Enervation could be overpowered when most players are fighting level 1 Kobold Warriors or a standard Skum. Drop the Kobolds for the Rogue to make a coup-de-grace, or basically cripple the Skum's attacks and saves and take a 1/4 of the health off with a non-save spell.
Or am I just horrendously overthinking this?
Still, there comes a time when, really, the Necromancer falls flat on his/her/it's face, and the need to come up with a nasty, low-level spell.
Chill touch? Cause fear? Ray of enfeeblement?
Still, that's some really pathetic spellcasting there. Oh, sure, the spells have some great use and the old "PRESS X TO NOT DIE!" or 'Save or Die' as the paleos call it, can be fun, but Necromancers lack a truly offensive spell in the lower bracket of spells.
Well, they're necromancers. Their school isn't known for many blasting spells. They get by with other stuff.
And as you have said: You can always not take evocation as a prohibited school.
The schools are not meant to enable versatile and self-sufficient spellcasters who use only one school of magic. You get to use at least 6 of those school without significant problems for a reason.
Here we go, once again assuming the Necro has taken Evocation as a prohibited school.
That means the necromancer has made a conscious decision not to use blasting magic. That's what you get for "banning" evocation (note that you're not totally banned - spells are just harder to cast).
You're supposed to give something up when you play a specialist. And just like giving up abjuration will mean your defensive powers will be limited, and giving up transmutation will mean your buffs will be limited, giving up evocation means you won't be a good blaster.
Either go a different route than pure damage or give up a different school. It may be a touch choice, but life's not a pony ranch.
Not exactly overflowing with blasty goodness, are we?
Of course not, we're no blaster, after all.
It's like playing a fighter and complaining about the lack of magic.
Even if we use the 'fingerbone' feat from the Arcane Manual from D&D (purposefully NOT mentioning the exact names)
Is your hate for wizards that great, or do you fear prosecution?
Ray of Scouring: Level 1 Necromancy Spell, effectively similar to Ray of Enfeeblement but causes 1d4 negative Energy Damage, increasing by one die every 4 levels to 4d4 at 12th level.
What about "ray of suck?" ;-P
Seriously, that's really weak. I wouldn't waste a slot for this.
alternatively: Lesser Enervation: Level 1 Necromancy Spell, as Enervation, but drops a target by 1 level for a number of rounds equal to the caster level. If the target is already at level 1 or has 1 HD, it is o HP and falls prone, but is otherwise unharmed.
That one's too good. A ray that virtually kills 1st-level enemies?
I don't think negative levels should stay out of the players' hands until they can get enervation.
most creatures around the 7th level aren't really going to flinch at the prospect of taking a 1-4 debuff on their rolls, with a 5-20 hit-points loss.
Pardon?
Enervation is THE offensive sor/wiz 4 spell. Being hexed for up to 4 points on attacks and saves is always major bad news. Of course, on lower levels, it's even worse, because two of those spells can kill you.
Either that, or whatever save-requiring ability follows the first one.
In conclusion, I can only say keep the schools as they are. If you want to be a blaster caster, don't choose evocation as one of the schools you cannot cast without difficulty. If you want to choose evocation, don't complain that your choice of damage-dealing magics is limited.
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A good wizard never ever casts a spell that does direct damage to an enemy. They are pretty much all bad choices.
Check out Treantmonk's guide for more info.
That said, it is true that necromancers generally don't have much in the way of necro-boomy spells they can cast.
A good wizard never ever casts a spell that does direct damage to an enemy. They are pretty much all bad choices.
Check out Treantmonk's guide for more info.
That said, it is true that necromancers generally don't have much in the way of necro-boomy spells they can cast.
I know, I know, just I'm dealing with a situation where the party is having some slight (re: we're getting pushed around by a band of deranged sorcerers with fireballs) issues with the fact our main Arcanist chose to go Necromancer and he isn't so much looking for the Negative Energy version of the Chain Lightning, but a small, light-weight 'die now' spell that doesn't require him to either touch a target or spend 2 actions preparing while those lovely buffs he's flinging around get dispelled en-mass.
And I disagree about the Direct Damage spells. A Arcane Caster should have a few on hand every day. Not every spell, but a few, somewhere around the 1/3 to 1/4 mark, to provide that damage boost if the party is struggling or to provide cover fire for the melee to get within range of, well, melee. Nothing says "Dive for Cover!" like a lightning bolt you've blasted through the main gates, sending the enemy Warriors scrambling for cover in case of a second barrage while your warrior friend runs in with Guisarme at the ready, and a Wall of Fire is great for keeping the heavy hitter at bay for a few rounds while the Cleric runs around healing everyone's broken spines and such..
I also tend to dislike Treantmonk's guide for the fact his attitude to anyone who disagrees being incredibly grating. He raises excellent points, but comes off like the fellows at ElitestJerks. Wonderful knowledge of the class but g!@@#~n awful social skills that makes taking that advice about as pleasant as a sulphuric acid enema.
@KaeYoss: More along the lines I mentioned them in one of my posts and somebody took the time to send me an email listing what could possibly happen to me, going so far as to mention permanent bans and potential legal action, if I were to directly list the feats, spells, etc of the 'Other Team', ie Power Attack and a sentence out of the feat's description, and given that there seems to be a few people running around with their fingers glued to the report button I chose to not give them any more ammunition, since I'm fairly sure the person who sent me said email is also the same person who spent four months harrassing me on the 'Other Team's' boards over my commentary about selling out to be more like WoW until I snapped, said something I shouldn't have and haven't been able to show my face back there since.
And no, I don't believe any one class should be penalized for going a certain route. Yes, Wizards who prohibit Evocation should not be flinging magic missiles around with abandon anymore than a Warrior who specialises in ranged attacks should be running into the middle of a Goblin scrum with a Club in hand, but s%++ happens and more often than not you are placed into a situation where your characters are put into positions where the carefully thought out strategies come to bugger all against a DM who'se craftier than you are and possesses maximum ranks in sadism.
That said, I did ask for advice, and you've both given me a lot to think about. I did like the 'ray' attack because it was 'weak' but it was also a spell a necromancer could turn into a wand or pay to have turned into a wand and be useful as a 'throw away' healing spell for a undead minion, having a single target effect. But by making it too much like 'Ray of Enfeeblement', it becomes too ... well 'same-y'. And having run a few more calculations, Lesser Enervate .... oh hell no. Ran a simulation in which a 5th level Necromancer with a 4th level wand of this spell belted the tar out of Minotaur solo then walked up and coup-de-graced him.
SOLO. So that's a "Bleh, not worth it" to the Ray version and a "Gamebreaking No" to the Enervation version.
Thank you both for your input.
@KaeYoss: More along the lines I mentioned them in one of my posts and somebody took the time to send me an email listing what could possibly happen to me, going so far as to mention permanent bans and potential legal action, if I were to directly list the feats, spells, etc of the 'Other Team', ie Power Attack and a sentence out of the feat's description, and given that there seems to be a few people running around with their fingers glued to the report button I chose to not give them any more ammunition, since I'm fairly sure the person who sent me said email is also the same person who spent four months harrassing me on the 'Other Team's' boards over my commentary about selling out to be more like WoW until I snapped, said something I shouldn't have and haven't been able to show my face back there since.
Pfft. Listing names of feats, as well as a general description and saying where they're from will not get you banned here, and while I don't like wizards, either, I doubt that they'd sue you over this, especially since they got nothing.
And you can be sure that if people report you here unnecessarily for mentioning how Practised Spellcaster, that Feat from Complete Arcane gives you a bonus to your caster level (but never increases your caster level above your total level)... or anything like that, that person will get a stern talking-to from Paizo's staff, and might get a forced downtime or even ban themselves for harassing people.
Some people are just a$@++&~s, but don't let yourself be intimidated by them. They might be able to pull off their gestapo methods elsewhere, but they can forget it here.
And no, I don't believe any one class should be penalized for going a certain route.
It's not a penalty. It's a consequence for a choice. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.
If you choose to play a wizard with evocation as one of his "banned" schoools, you won't get blast magic.
Yes, Wizards who prohibit Evocation should not be flinging magic missiles around with abandon anymore than a Warrior who specialises in ranged attacks should be running into the middle of a Goblin scrum with a Club in hand, but s*~@ happens and more often than not you are placed into a situation where your characters are put into positions where the carefully thought out strategies come to bugger all against a DM who'se craftier than you are and possesses maximum ranks in sadism.
Of course. If the GM wants to bugger you, he'll bugger you. And there will be situations where you need to fall back on Plan B.
The solution: Have a Plan B.
If you want to fall back on blast magic and you are a wizard that has chosen evocation as one of his banned schools and didn't prepare any evocation spells (because they were so expensive at double the slot cost) and didn't bring any items, you don't have a Plan B.
That said, I did ask for advice, and you've both given me a lot to think about. I did like the 'ray' attack because it was 'weak' but it was also a spell a necromancer could turn into a wand or pay to have turned into a wand and be useful as a 'throw away' healing spell for a undead minion, having a single target effect. But by making it too much like 'Ray of Enfeeblement', it becomes too ... well 'same-y'.
It might make more sense as a ray that deals 1d4 per level, or maybe two levels, maximum 5d4. It would be weak as an attack option, but you could get around energy resistance and heal your undead minions with it if you had to.
But maybe that's the problem: You can heal undead with it. Some sorcerers and wizards are undead, which means they suddenly had a heal spell (albeit a weak one)
Thank you both for your input.
No problem. I'm always happy to burst people's bub.. I mean, to give valuable advice (<-- not a sadist. Honest!)>:D
A good wizard never ever casts a spell that does direct damage to an enemy. They are pretty much all bad choices.
Yeah, I have heard about that. I think it's utter nonsense. It might not be the best choice, and often sub-par, but it's parsecs away from being useless.
Especially since I have seen wizards use blast spells to great effect.
A good wizard never ever casts a spell that does direct damage to an enemy. They are pretty much all bad choices.
Yeah, I have heard about that. I think it's utter nonsense. It might not be the best choice, and often sub-par, but it's parsecs away from being useless.
Especially since I have seen wizards use blast spells to great effect.
Agreed. Everything is situational. Even fireball has its nice tactical uses. There are many times when a blasting spell is indeed the most beneficial spell to use at the moment.
I have definitely seen blasting spells used to devastating benefit.
My personal take on spells presented in the 3.5 PHB and now in the PF Core Rule Book is that they represent a list of the common knowledge spells of all schools. Spells which are easily found in any Wizard academy or in the personal libraries of most Wizards. They are also a fair and balanced guideline for spells of all schools of magic from 1st to 9th level. All that said, there is a reason Wizards guard their personal libraries and spell books with their lives and a reason why rival Wizards desire to steal/learn each other’s secrets. Rival Wizards in fantasy novels are constantly risking life and limb over the faintest opportunity to gain the knowledge of ancient Wizards or even the mighty Wizards of their own time. It would be a bit silly for an adventuring Wizard to get fanatically exited over the discovery of some ancient Arch Mage’s personal spell book if all he expected to find was a list of the same spells found in the PHB/PF-CRB. Those spells which, if not already in his own books, he would most certainly already have access to via Wizard academies and guilds. The reason for all that excitement is represented by, IMO, one of the most under-utilized portions of the core rules, the section dealing with researching and creating new/unique spells. Players and DM's are constantly coming up with new and unique magic items for their PC's/NPC's but rarely have I ever seen a player or DM come up with their own unique spells.
Personally I feel every Wizard academy or guild should have a library of unique spells researched by, and taught only to, members of their organization. I also think that any, if not every, Wizard you meet over 5th level or so should have a book (or several books) containing his own personal research and uniquely crafted spells. Not just spells from his academy or guild (if the Wizard is even a member of such an organization) but also spells which were researched and created by that particular Wizard and never shared with or taught to anyone else, save maybe an apprentice. In a system like this unique spells could be used as currency between Wizards. Of course, that doesn't mean that you will get a Wizard's unique research just because you defeated him in battle. In most cases you will have to actually find the Wizard's hidden laboratory and manage to escape with the writings. Adventuring Wizards are about the only Wizards who should ever walk around in public with a spell book hung from their belt. A particularly paranoid Wizard might have several devastating traps in place, not only to protect his secret laboratory but also to destroy his personal library if anyone other than himself ever accesses it.
I never really understood why D&D/PF necromantic magic didn't have more life leaching spells or inflict wounds type spells, an evil cleric who chooses infliction is a better representation of a Necromancer than a Wizard who specializes in Necromancy is if you only use core spells. There are a lot of necromantic debuff spells in the core rules but the life leaching spells are few and far between. That does fit in with my opinions of what the PHB/PF-CRB spell lists represent though, they are the common knowledge of magic. Really there shouldn't be all that much common knowledge about necromancy; it is a dark, secretive (even more so than other forms of magic), and forbidden practice. A deep knowledge of necromantic spells should be reserved for the most corrupt of outcast Wizards and evil cults.
I support players and DM's creating their own unique spells but those spells have to be balanced with the power level of the core list of spells for that level. My opinion of the spells you have posted is that Ray of Scouring is a bit too weak and Lesser Enervation is too powerful. Ray of Scouring should deal 1d4/2 levels damage (but not more than the target's current HP + CON score) and should give the caster an amount of temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt that last 1 hour/caster level. A ranged touch attack subject to Spell Resistance and the ray should have a short range. (This would be rather like the 1st level spell Larloch's Minor Drain of 2nd edition D&D games like Baldure's Gate 2. It would also be similar to Vampiric Touch but would trade lower damage for higher range.) I would also definitely change the name of this spell, possibly to Ray of Leaching; scouring is ok if you are only inflicting damage but not if you are siphoning life. As for Lesser Enervation, I don't really think making a 1st level spell for draining levels is balanced but if you do go ahead with it I would say you should lessen the effect that the spell has on 1HD creatures to the effect of a Raise Dead on creatures that don't have enough HD: If the target of the Lesser Enervation has only 1HD than he suffers -2 CON for the duration of the spell. A ranged touch attack subject to Spell Resistance and possibly a Fortitude Save as well(to balance the fact that it's a 1st level spell with a level drain effect) and should also be a short ranged spell.
Okay, just quickly listing the Necromancer in question
Note: Some of you will ask "How can he afford that?" Well, our Wizard was smart enough to spend some cash on getting a controlling share in one of the more popular taverns. He gets a fair whack of cash every month (around 200-300 gold) and it gives us a decent hideout.
9th level Human Wizard (Necromancer Specialist)
Stats: Str 10 / Dex 14 / Con 14 (+1 at level 4) / Int 17 (+1 at level 8) / Wis 12 / Cha 12 (he got some great rolls)
Hit-points: (9d6 +18 Con +9 Toughness) 64 hit points.
Saves: Fort +4 / Dex +4 / Will +7
AC: 16, Touch 14, Flat-Footed 12.
Arcane Bond Item: Platinum Ring of Protection +2
Has the Command Undead Supernatural Ability. Total amount of Undead HD available at this level is 36.
Feats: Combat Casting, Toughness, Craft Wand, Spell Penetration, Corpsecrafter, Craft Wondrous Item, Destructive Retribution, Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Weapons: +1/Masterwork Quarterstaff, Ritual Dagger (gold blade, masterwork cost but -1 to damage), +1Seeking Double Crossbow, 40 crossbow bolts.
Magical Items: Metamagic Rod of Extend (lesser), Wand of Light, Wand of Floating Disc, Wand of Scorching Ray, Bracers of Armor (2), Cloak or Resistance (+2), Handy Haversack and Ring of Protection (2).
Scrolls: Scroll of Comprehend Languagesx3, Scroll of Grease, Scroll of Webx2, Scroll of Gust of Wind, Scroll of Wind Wall, Scroll of Water Breathing, Scroll of Protection from Energy , Scroll of Charm Monster.
He's got a total of 2000 gold left, roughly, after some downtime and the crafting of the Wand of Light and Spell-stitching his Undead Bodyguards, after we used up the last charge of the previous Light Wand. Also, we have a Bard in the party so the two can use each other's wands for the most part >.> and thus the Necromancer can make the various scrolls listed above, in addition to buying others.
Spells Known(Prohibited Spells are Evocation and Enchantment):
Spells marked with * have been acquired via trading with a friendly Wizard, ie one spell of a non-prohibited school for the same from the friendly Wizard. If this keeps on going, the Necromancer could potentially double his known spells so the GM is probably cooking something devious up for us ...
Spells marked with ^ have been researched by the Wizard.
Cantrips: (all except Evocation and Enchantment).
1st level: Mage Armor, Alarm, Cause Fear, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement and *Feather Fall.
2nd level: Command Undead, Ghoul Touch, Spectral Hand, ^Magic Mouth, *Phantom Trap and *Make Whole.
3rd level: Gentle Repose, Invisibility Sphere and *Dispel Magic.
4th level: Animate Dead, Fear, ^Enervation and *Secure Shelter.
5th level: Waves of Fatigue, Summon Monster v and *Transmute Rock to Mud.
Currently the Necromancer has a pair of Bloody Bugbear Spellstitched Skeletons (12 HD worth) with AC of 19 (+4 Chain Shirt +2 Dex +2 Natural armor +1 shield) (Touch 14 Flat-Footed 17), Fast Healing 1, Channel Resistance +8, Spell Resistance 17 and both can cast Mage Armor 2/Day and Sleep 2/day and 18 hitpoints each. Both Bugbear Bloody Spellstitched Skeletons have been equipped with Morning Stars, Chain shirts and Small Shields as well as 'kibble' such as Black Monk Robes, Leather Gloves and Boots and oval masks with two eye-holes strapped to their faces. It's a decent enough disguise so that most people assume the Necromancer just has two really big thugs guarding him at all times. And given that they regenerate after death, we've had to expend precious little in the way of replacing them. Add to the fact that if one dies it will create an explosion of of Negative Energy (2d6 for each one) it will often heal the other to full health on death, which is fun.
Other Undead include Three Heavy Warhorse Skeletons (6HD worth)as mounts for the Necromancer and his two Bodyguards, 10 Human Warrior/Rogue Skeletons (bandits we encountered a few fights ago) armed with Longbows and Longspears, generally used to soften up the enemy with a barrage of arrows (few actually hit but it generally causes the enemy to take cover or use defensive actions long enough for the rest of the party to get their buffs on and get ready) before dropping the weapons and pulling out their longspears to harrass the enemy, taking a 5 foot step back every round before making their attack, which is hilarious if you're near a bridge or something and forget to tell them to stop and a Ogre Zombie, also Spellstitched, with a Large Greatclub and Large Chainmail armor (had 6HD, 31 hitpoints, AC 15, Touch 7, Flat-Footed 15) as the 'big bruiser'.
Uhhhh..... in case the kibble broke people's will to read further, I posted that in the hopes of craftier gamers giving some advice on his minions and spell selections.
And if anyone remembers my tripping fighter thread, yes, our damn Cleric is still beating on me with her spell-channeling whip. Gah.