| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I stumbled on to a base class at Giant in the Playground forums based on clowns. I think it's great class and that the created of it did a great job. I'm think of playing it in an up coming game. I was hoping people could look it over for balance. I think it may tip a bit overpowered but not by much.
Go to The Clown.
My main concern is that the face paint may be too powerful, but I'm trying to keep in mind you can only have 1 and it does cut into you wealth by level I suppose.
All help appreciated
And congrats to Keinnicht for this amazing class
Fizz
Wow....just wow.
The bits that seemed overpowered to me:
- Balloon animals (animal companions limited only by size)
- Knock at will at level 1
- Charm Monster at will at level 6
- Dimension Door at will at level 6
- Etherealness at will at level 11
- 100 fly speed for 2000 gp
- petrifying gaze attack at will for 14000 gp
- weretiger/werebear template for 16000/18000 gp (or dire weretiger/werebear template for 32000/36000 gp!)
The bits that seemed overpowered to me:
- Balloon animals (animal companions limited only by size)
- Knock at will at level 1
- Charm Monster at will at level 6
- Dimension Door at will at level 6
- Etherealness at will at level 11
- 100 fly speed for 2000 gp
- petrifying gaze attack at will for 14000 gp
- weretiger/werebear template for 16000/18000 gp (or dire weretiger/werebear template for 32000/36000 gp!)
Ok I've been really looking over this class and I think I have a few fixes for the points you pointed out.
Knock at will at level 1: I would point out that the target must be a door, so no manacles, chest, etc can be opened. I would also pair this up with the warlocks Baleful Utterance which can "open" doors, chest locks, chains etc
Charm Monster at will at level 6: The warlock gets the same ability it's called Charm.
Dimension Door at will at level 6: The warlock gets a similar ability called Flee the Scene except different range and Flee the Scene leaves a mirror imagine in your place.
Etherealness at will at level 11: I would move this to level 16 to be on par with the warlock's Path of Shadows.
100 fly speed for 2000 gp: I would scale this.
40ft for 2000gp
60ft for 4000gp
80ft for 8000gp
100ft for 15000gp
120ft for 20000gp
Petrifying gaze attack at will for 14000 gp: I would move this to level 16 to be on par with the warlock's Word of Changing.
Balloon animals (animal companions limited only by size): Well they aren't companions more summoned animals. Size isn't the only restriction it must be animal type and the right size and not a dinosaurs until level 17. Then at 20th level it can be anything. Plus you must make the craft balloon animal check to even summon the animal. Can you point out some unbalancing aspects of balloon animals?
Weretiger/werebear template for 16000/18000 gp (or dire weretiger/werebear template for 32000/36000 gp!): as much as I like it I would either drop it or have it just grant natural attacks, enhancement bonuses, and something like scent not the template.
Thanks for the response so far. I've really gotten behind this class and want to make sure it balanced.
Fizz
1) If the Knock only works on doors, it might be O.K. I'd maybe change it to be "Range: Touch" for thematic reasons, though. :-)
2) The warlock can only Charm one creature at a time; there's no such restriction on the clown's ability.
3) With regards to the Balloon Animals, a level 3 clown with 16 Charisma can have three small animals under his control at any time. That's not so bad (assuming that you're not playing with some non-Core monster manual that has a super-duper animal of size Small), although he can replace them any time he wants so it's effectively an unending supply of summons.
But at level 13, he'll have at least 22 Charisma (more likely 25 Charisma + a cloak of charisma), so that means 9 Huge flying animals (elephants, giant crocodiles, dire bears, dire tigers, whatever) that can be trivially replaced. At level 15, he has access to even bigger creatures like rocs. Note that the skill check isn't really a problem since the clown can try over and over again until he succeeds.
On a personal note, I'm not crazy about a class that can summon a huge amount of creatures (a dozen balloon animals, 20d4 gibbering mouthers, etc.); it can really slow combat down to a crawl.
EDIT: One more thing -- I don't think that Clown Size should be an immediate action; a swift action would be better, IMO.
Ok I've been really looking over this class and I think I have a few fixes for the points you pointed out.
Knock at will at level 1: I would point out that the target must be a door, so no manacles, chest, etc can be opened. I would also pair this up with the warlocks Baleful Utterance which can "open" doors, chest locks, chains etc
Charm Monster at will at level 6: The warlock gets the same ability it's called Charm.
Dimension Door at will at level 6: The warlock gets a similar ability called Flee the Scene except different range and Flee the Scene leaves a mirror imagine in your place.
Etherealness at will at level 11: I would move this to level 16 to be on par with the warlock's Path of Shadows.
100 fly speed for 2000 gp: I would scale this.
40ft for 2000gp
60ft for 4000gp
80ft for 8000gp
100ft for 15000gp
120ft for 20000gpPetrifying gaze attack at will for 14000 gp: I would move this to level 16 to be on par with the warlock's Word of Changing.
Balloon animals (animal companions limited only by size): Well they aren't companions more summoned animals. Size isn't the only restriction it must be animal type and the right size and not a dinosaurs until level 17. Then at 20th level it can be anything. Plus you must make the craft balloon animal check to even summon the animal. Can you point out some unbalancing aspects of balloon animals?
Weretiger/werebear template for 16000/18000 gp (or dire weretiger/werebear template for 32000/36000 gp!): as much as I like it I would either drop it or have it...
3) With regards to the Balloon Animals, a level 3 clown with 16 Charisma can have three small animals under his control at any time. That's not so bad (assuming that you're not playing with some non-Core monster manual that has a super-duper animal of size Small), although he can replace them any time he wants so it's effectively an unending supply of summons.
But at level 13, he'll have at least 22 Charisma (more likely 25 Charisma + a cloak of charisma), so that means 9 Huge flying animals (elephants, giant crocodiles, dire bears, dire tigers, whatever) that can be trivially replaced. At level 15, he has access to even bigger creatures like rocs. Note that the skill check isn't really a problem since the clown can try over and over again until he succeeds.
On a personal note, I'm not crazy about a class that can summon a huge amount of creatures (a dozen balloon animals, 20d4 gibbering mouthers, etc.); it can really slow combat down to a crawl.
Good point I rarely use summons which is more than likely why I over looked this. Would just being able to have your cha mod help out with this. The clown may only have his cha mod in "summons" that would still be quite a bit because the clown will have a high cha mod.
Also what would be a good scale for the gibbering mouthers: 1d4+1/4 clown levels? These are not under the clown's control. I'm guess this ability is to breed chaos and to help make escapes.
Fizz
Good point I rarely use summons which is more than likely why I over looked this. Would just being able to have your cha mod help out with this. The clown may only have his cha mod in "summons" that would still be quite a bit because the clown will have a high cha mod.
Having one long-duration balloon animal would be fine (similar to a druid's animal companion). And having an endless supply of short-duration balloon animals would also be fine (similar to a druid's Summon Nature's Ally spell). But having an endless supply of long-duration balloon animals is too much (IMO).
Also what would be a good scale for the gibbering mouthers: 1d4+1/4 clown levels? These are not under the clown's control. I'm guess this ability is to breed chaos and to help make escapes.
I don't think that power is unbalanced or overpowered; I just think it would be annoying for the DM and the other players. "O.K. everyone; make 50 DC 13 Will saves!" :-)