yea, everything was awesome...back in 08. By the time they actually get this up and running outside of interoffice beta, it'll need a new game engine to compete. I understand that they've gone through some difficult history with the recession, but they're dragging their feet way to hard to get a competitive edge on this day's market.
for lord snow: too bloody right. My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging. It's going to really ruin what, to now, has been a fantastic RPG for my computer. I'm still reloading VTR: Redemption and Bloodlines onto my computer for an excellent break from fantasy.
The kind of short attention span gaming encouraged by MMOs just doesn't fit the setting, I feel. The gameplay of MMO includes things like farming, collecting and trading loot, and other kinds of grinding. That's not what playing in WoD is about, for me at least.
My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging.
I'm curious as to where these sentiments come from. I see a lot of these comments, especially here at Paizo, and it makes me wonder.
The kind of short attention span gaming encouraged by MMOs just doesn't fit the setting, I feel. The gameplay of MMO includes things like farming, collecting and trading loot, and other kinds of grinding. That's not what playing in WoD is about, for me at least.My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging.I'm curious as to where these sentiments come from. I see a lot of these comments, especially here at Paizo, and it makes me wonder.
There is an unfortunate stigma that MMOs are the source of all evil. They tend to play out much differently than tabletops, which isn't necessarily bad, but they are different.
The kind of short attention span gaming encouraged by MMOs just doesn't fit the setting, I feel. The gameplay of MMO includes things like farming, collecting and trading loot, and other kinds of grinding. That's not what playing in WoD is about, for me at least.My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging.I'm curious as to where these sentiments come from. I see a lot of these comments, especially here at Paizo, and it makes me wonder.
Well, at least for some of us that is partly dictated by actual play experience in various MMORPGs. This varies between games and even between servers of single game, though, and is a bit of exaggeration. A bit.
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There is an unfortunate stigma that MMOs are the source of all evil. They tend to play out much differently than tabletops, which isn't necessarily bad, but they are different.The kind of short attention span gaming encouraged by MMOs just doesn't fit the setting, I feel. The gameplay of MMO includes things like farming, collecting and trading loot, and other kinds of grinding. That's not what playing in WoD is about, for me at least.My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging.I'm curious as to where these sentiments come from. I see a lot of these comments, especially here at Paizo, and it makes me wonder.
Eh, i don't mind MMOs, i play some for a while and then get bored and move on.
What i hate though, is players approaching tabletops with an "MMO mentality". That thing really really annoys me. Using MMO terminology i am beginning to be able to swallow, but, MMO approach to a tabletop kills my mood faster then anything else.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, i don't mind MMOs, i play some for a while and then get bored and move on.
What i hate though, is players approaching tabletops with an "MMO mentality". That thing really really annoys me. Using MMO terminology i am beginning to be able to swallow, but, MMO approach to a tabletop kills my mood faster then anything else.
It's bad enough that the MMO devs approach MMOs with an "MMO mentality" ;)
Although I have to say, from my time in EVE Online, I find the sandbox style far far better than World of Warcraft's "Theme Park". The pressure to be constantly working on bettering yourself just isn't there, and you can take a far more relaxed attitude to playing. If you poke around enough you can find games that don't channel you into grinding, focusing on a combat role, or generally having to constantly run around on rails or risk falling behind.
I spent the majority of my time in EVE training other players, just because there wasn't any real need to spend my time doing anything else. As a result I got to meet far more people and have far more interesting interactions with other players, rather than being forced to actually play the game itself every waking moment ;)
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Eh, i don't mind MMOs, i play some for a while and then get bored and move on.
What i hate though, is players approaching tabletops with an "MMO mentality". That thing really really annoys me. Using MMO terminology i am beginning to be able to swallow, but, MMO approach to a tabletop kills my mood faster then anything else.It's bad enough that the MMO devs approach MMOs with an "MMO mentality" ;)
Although I have to say, from my time in EVE Online, I find the sandbox style far far better than World of Warcraft's "Theme Park". The pressure to be constantly working on bettering yourself just isn't there, and you can take a far more relaxed attitude to playing. If you poke around enough you can find games that don't channel you into grinding, focusing on a combat role, or generally having to constantly run around on rails or risk falling behind.
I spent the majority of my time in EVE training other players, just because there wasn't any real need to spend my time doing anything else. As a result I got to meet far more people and have far more interesting interactions with other players, rather than being forced to actually play the game itself every waking moment ;)
Eve and DDO were the only two MMOs to get me to stick around. Neither has stellar gameplay but the people were great. I made many friends. That made the games fun enough to keep going. I'm sure I've met a few folks like yourself and want to thank you for making the experience a good one.
Eve and DDO were the only two MMOs to get me to stick around. Neither has stellar gameplay but the people were great. I made many friends. That made the games fun enough to keep going. I'm sure I've met a few folks like yourself and want to thank you for making the experience a good one.
And this is one of the reasons why I think World of Darkness will be a great game, if it doesn't get cancelled. Plus game play, graphics, and everything else.
Eve and DDO were the only two MMOs to get me to stick around. Neither has stellar gameplay but the people were great. I made many friends. That made the games fun enough to keep going. I'm sure I've met a few folks like yourself and want to thank you for making the experience a good one.
I spent the majority of my time in EVE training other players, just because there wasn't any real need to spend my time doing anything else. As a result I got to meet far more people and have far more interesting interactions with other players, rather than being forced to actually play the game itself every waking moment ;)
Heh, yes, I remember thinking often how little of the game I'd actually seen (and then reading up to find there really wasn't that much of it beyond what I had seen) but finding the interaction with other players was the thing that kept me hooked.
And if you were ever a member of Eve Uni, chances are you either came to one of my lectures or one I'd had a hand in setting up or editing - even if not, it's much appreciated to hear how much you enjoyed the type of work we and others did :)
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The kind of short attention span gaming encouraged by MMOs just doesn't fit the setting, I feel. The gameplay of MMO includes things like farming, collecting and trading loot, and other kinds of grinding. That's not what playing in WoD is about, for me at least.My first thought when someone says MMO, All I can imagine is thousands of gold sellers, trolls, and 12 year old nerd raging.I'm curious as to where these sentiments come from. I see a lot of these comments, especially here at Paizo, and it makes me wonder.
My comment was based on personal playing experience (played through about 8 levels of World of Warcraft - exactly enough time to realize there's no point in reading the texts of a quest I was given, because they are as a rule dumb and bland and uninteresting - which reduced the game to a series of fetch quests for me, which made it boring) as well as just general familiarity with MMO players.
When you hear a couple of MMO players discussing their game, it's never about how cool the setting is, or speculations about the story, or sharing the fun of an encounter with some NPC. They are talking about their builds, the 251 new items that the new expansion set will bring, and how fun was that PvP.
I just can't see how this works well with WoD.
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When you hear a couple of MMO players discussing their game, it's never about how cool the setting is, or speculations about the story, or sharing the fun of an encounter with some NPC. They are talking about their builds, the 251 new items that the new expansion set will bring, and how fun was that PvP.
There are those. And then there are those who scripted entire events back in EverQuest (big weddings with surprise betrayals and duels and whatnot) or held costume contests in City of Heroes (complete with prizes and guest judges) or form entire guilds that wear specific outfits or follow specific storylines or are based off of in-game lore.
In Star Wars: the Old Republic, the most fun I've had was with the Black Bisector storyline (love those Gree!) and listening to the storylines and dialogue of companions like 4-X and Blizz (both of whom are hilarious, for different reasons).
There's exactly one person in our guild who talks about gear all the time. Just as in EverQuest, Dark Ages of Camelot, City of Heroes, etc. my gaming friends generally shun loot-freaks or people who obsess over their DPS.
Warcraft is perhaps a bad example, since it's got whole sections of the game locked off by 'item value' so that those whose gear isn't uber enough can't play in those sections. That, IMO, panders to the worst element, but, like City of Heroes, which didn't even *have* gear (or attributes, for that matter!), Vampire was never a gear-centric game, and is built around vampires *avoiding* open conflict (since the local Prince would just call a Blood Hunt and annihilate your night-stocking *** if you capped another Kindred without his permission, and the easiest way for people to 'get permission' would be to kill someone else without permission...).
I'd love if a Vampire MMO went the way of CoH and was mostly gear-less (it's already been proven to be feasible and even viable), with any sort of mundane weapon being just that, mundane. A knife is a knife. A gun is a gun. Some might have different graphics, but they all do the same basic thing, leaving the truly impressive options the use of vampiric (werewolf, mage, etc.) powers (just as some 'temporary powers' in COH allowed one to pull out a gun and shoot someone, but it was never as good as shooting a fireball at someone, 'cause it was primarily a game about superheroes, not about guns).
That all aside, I don't expect to see a Vampire MMO.
It's not impossible that the World of Darkness / Vampire / White Wolf could rise like a phoenix from the ashes of their own self-immolation, but I'm not a vampire, so I'm not gonna hold my breath.
There are those. And then there are those who scripted entire events back in EverQuest (big weddings with surprise betrayals and duels and whatnot) or held costume contests in City of Heroes (complete with prizes and guest judges) or form entire guilds that wear specific outfits or follow specific storylines or are based off of in-game lore.In Star Wars: the Old Republic, the most fun I've had was with the Black Bisector storyline (love those Gree!) and listening to the storylines and dialogue of companions like 4-X and Blizz (both of whom are hilarious, for different reasons).
There's exactly one person in our guild who talks about gear all the time. Just as in EverQuest, Dark Ages of Camelot, City of Heroes, etc. my gaming friends generally shun loot-freaks or people who obsess over their DPS.
Warcraft is perhaps a bad example, since it's got whole sections of the game locked off by 'item value' so that those whose gear isn't uber enough can't play in those sections.
I spent a good year or so in WoW as part of an RP guild, and for the majority of that time didn't touch any PvE or PvP, and just sat around RPing :) So yeah, it's not as black and white as a lot of people think. It's just that it can be hard to dig past the hundreds of grinding players to find those few who are more interested in just having fun together. It's also very easy to play WoW or similarly-designed games and assume just because of their popularity that is the only MMO model out there.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks in MMO design is finding methods of player retention. Unfortunately, this seems to result in systems designed to give you things you have to do in order to remain competitive enough to validate your existence in the game, rather than systems designed to give you enough options that you can find something to do whenever you feel like doing it while not being penalized for taking a month or two off. After all, if people can take a few months off and not feel they fell behind, they might actually do that ;) What the companies who work with those designs don't tend to see, however, is the number of players who need to take that month or two off for other reasons, and then just don't come back after because it's simply not worth it now they fell so far behind. I really do think we need much more friendly player retention models that don't rely on picking up the stragglers every couple of years with an expansion pack that effectively resets everything you accomplished - all that gives me is the impression of a giant racetrack where everyone runs a 400m lap then gets lined up again back to the start to do it all over again.
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When you hear a couple of MMO players discussing their game, it's never about how cool the setting is, or speculations about the story, or sharing the fun of an encounter with some NPC. They are talking about their builds, the 251 new items that the new expansion set will bring, and how fun was that PvP.There are those. And then there are those who scripted entire events back in EverQuest (big weddings with surprise betrayals and duels and whatnot) or held costume contests in City of Heroes (complete with prizes and guest judges) or form entire guilds that wear specific outfits or follow specific storylines or are based off of in-game lore.
In Star Wars: the Old Republic, the most fun I've had was with the Black Bisector storyline (love those Gree!) and listening to the storylines and dialogue of companions like 4-X and Blizz (both of whom are hilarious, for different reasons).
There's exactly one person in our guild who talks about gear all the time. Just as in EverQuest, Dark Ages of Camelot, City of Heroes, etc. my gaming friends generally shun loot-freaks or people who obsess over their DPS.
Warcraft is perhaps a bad example, since it's got whole sections of the game locked off by 'item value' so that those whose gear isn't uber enough can't play in those sections. That, IMO, panders to the worst element, but, like City of Heroes, which didn't even *have* gear (or attributes, for that matter!), Vampire was never a gear-centric game, and is built around vampires *avoiding* open conflict (since the local Prince would just call a Blood Hunt and annihilate your night-stocking *** if you capped another Kindred without his permission, and the easiest way for people to 'get permission' would be to kill someone else without permission...).
I'd love if a Vampire MMO went the way of CoH and was mostly gear-less (it's already been proven to be feasible and even viable), with any sort of mundane weapon being just that, mundane. A knife is a knife. A gun is a gun. Some...
Never said it's not *possible* to enjoy MMOs in different ways... didn't even say it never happens. But it IS the exception rather than the rule. And the reason to that is simply that that just about all MMOs are constructed in ways that encourage that kind of play - completing grinding tasks and worrying about builds.
While the game style does not strictly prevent roleplaying, it never does anything to encourage it or enable it, leaving it up to the players to come up with all sorts of rag tag solutions of their own if they want to make RP happen.So it's not that MMO cannot possibly be a good choice for a WoD game, it's just that it will never be the best choice. In my opinion a point and click adventure similar to "The Walking Dead" by Telltale games would be best - barring that, a single player roleplaying game like Biowere are do.
Never said it's not *possible* to enjoy MMOs in different ways... didn't even say it never happens. But it IS the exception rather than the rule. And the reason to that is simply that that just about all MMOs are constructed in ways that encourage that kind of play - completing grinding tasks and worrying about builds.
Depends on your game, your putting all of them in one box. Many of them have different playstyles and do generate a different playerbase. Playing TERA, CoH, WoW, and Vindictus will make you run into entirely different people and the games will have a very different focus. This is created not only by the game itself, but its history and origin. Warcraft has a lot of backstory to it before WoW ever came out, TERA is a subscription game that went F2P and didn't originate in English, and GW2 has a heavy focus on story elements and has references to the first.
So it's not that MMO cannot possibly be a good choice for a WoD game, it's just that it will never be the best choice. In my opinion a point and click adventure similar to "The Walking Dead" by Telltale games would be best - barring that, a single player roleplaying game like Biowere are do.
FPS will never work. Its all about guns and shooting and stuff! No RP or stealth elements at all.
Don't you need (a prince's) permission to kill another vampire in WoD? I think so. That would limit PVP.
Yeah, not sure how PVP would work unless there was basically anarchy. The good news is you will probably know if this game is great or bad, just based on the design.
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My comment was based on personal playing experience (played through about 8 levels of World of Warcraft - exactly enough time to realize there's no point in reading the texts of a quest I was given, because they are as a rule dumb and bland and uninteresting - which reduced the game to a series of fetch quests for me, which made it boring) as well as just general familiarity with MMO players.
When you hear a couple of MMO players discussing their game, it's never about how cool the setting is, or speculations about the story, or sharing the fun of an encounter with some NPC. They are talking about their builds, the 251 new items that the new expansion set will bring, and how fun was that PvP.
I just can't see how this works well with WoD.
To be fair, that attitude was just as prevalent, in my experience, when it came to table-top D&D - especially in 3E.
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To be fair, that attitude was just as prevalent, in my experience, when it came to table-top D&D - especially in 3E.My comment was based on personal playing experience (played through about 8 levels of World of Warcraft - exactly enough time to realize there's no point in reading the texts of a quest I was given, because they are as a rule dumb and bland and uninteresting - which reduced the game to a series of fetch quests for me, which made it boring) as well as just general familiarity with MMO players.
When you hear a couple of MMO players discussing their game, it's never about how cool the setting is, or speculations about the story, or sharing the fun of an encounter with some NPC. They are talking about their builds, the 251 new items that the new expansion set will bring, and how fun was that PvP.
I just can't see how this works well with WoD.
Oh, in 3E, certainly - and the game encourages it by having a really fun and diverse character creation system.
But, when two WoD players tell each other of their games, are they talking about their builds? rarely, from my experience.
D&D can work as an MMO. WoD, not so much.
D&D can work as an MMO. WoD, not so much.
I can't argue with that. If they do make a WoD MMO, it'll just be an MMO with the WoD name slapped on the cover. I've no expectation that it'll in any way capture the spirit or feel of the actual WoD.
CCP lays off 15 in Atlanta, but World of Darkness MMO continues dev
You can see the small info on World of Darkness that CCP has in (interminable) development in their last company 6-month update brochure (worth a look): CCP 6-month Update: September 2013 (WoD: p.28)
CCP lays off 15 in Atlanta, but World of Darkness MMO continues dev
Although they say they're going to continue development, I can't see it being very positive that they're laying off 15 of 70 staff. When writing software, you ramp up, not down at this point. And no, they're no different than any other company. This company seems to be in dire need of at least a little venture capital or public funding. And then buy back shares if they want to go private again.
