One of my players' character died last session, after a 50 hp critical hit (a bit hard for a 3rd level character).
He want to play a paladin now, but I don0t want him to start at 1st level, but maybe 3rd or 4th to put them at the same level of the rest of the party.
What are the rules for starting equipment for higher level characters?
Should I pick npc suggested equipment from 3.5 DMG? How do you handle that choice?
Also if the rest of the players finished Burnt Offerings at 4th level, should I make him start by playing a 3rd level character?
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See the table "Table: Character Wealth by Level" here.
A 3rd level PC would start with about 3k in equipment.
A 4th level PC would start with about 6k in equipment.
Guidelines for spending that cash are:
PCs that are built after 1st level should spend no more than 25% of their wealth on weapons, 25% on armor and protective devices, 25% on other magic items, 15% on disposable items like potions, scrolls, and wands, and 10% on ordinary gear and coins. Different character types might spend their wealth differently than these percentages suggest; for example, arcane casters might spend very little on weapons but a great deal more on other magic items and disposable items.
In the Gamemastering section it outlines character wealth by level. A lvl 3 character would have 3000 in gear.
If the party looted his corpse, you may want to reduce his new money a little. If you don't have a lot of player deaths it wont be a problem, but you don't want new characters to be a source for money.
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Page 399 of the Core Book.
That has the PC wealth by level chart. It's a little bit more than the PC wealth by level from 3E. As you'll see, it's waaay more than the NPC by level wealth chart.
.... As for what level you allow your Player to make -- it's up to the DM (and you should typically inform all the Players before the campaign begins of your policy, oops) -- but I go with one level lower than the dead PC. This is what the PC would be with a Raise Dead or Resurrection, after all. More importantly, it lets the Players know that there is a consequence of PC death. You do lose something (one level).
Some DMs allow Players make new PCs equal to the level of the former PC. In large groups many DMs let the Player make a PC equal to the APL.
I usually put the new PC at an EXP loss, but not necessarily a level loss. Usually deaths don't happen just before or just after a leveling. So usually rounding down to starting xp for APL works fine. If the party averages 7.5, I round them down to 7. That's a kick in the teeth (especially if they were 8) but they are still in the same ballpark as the rest of the characters. About the only time they lose a level is if they were just over the next level (like the 8 vs 7.5 I just used as an example), but even then, they aren't 1 level behind everyone, just 1 level behind where they were).
The wealth by level chart that others have mentioned is definitely a good start, but it can lead to some serious min-maxing at times. If you want new characters to feel a bit more organic and hold back the min-maxing a little, I'd suggest giving them the starting wealth for a character one or two levels lower, and then making up the difference in starting wealth by randomly selecting some loot for them. This way they don't end up with all hand selected gear, while the rest of the party just has what they've managed to find or craft.
Thank you very much indeed! That's what I needed.
A questin, though.
3000 gp for a 3rd level charatcer seems fair, although I couldn't find any magic amor worth less than 750 gp... all armors have a set price of 1000 gp which in fact sounds a bit weird. Is this a +1000 gp cost on the base cost of the armor (banded mail 250 gp, banded mail +1 1250 gp?)
.... As for what level you allow your Player to make -- it's up to the DM (and you should typically inform all the Players before the campaign begins of your policy, oops) -- but I go with one level lower than the dead PC. This is what the PC would be with a Raise Dead or Resurrection, after all. More importantly, it lets the Players know that there is a consequence of PC death. You do lose something (one level).
Raise Dead and Resurrection no longer cause level loss, instead they give you negative levels (just like an energy drain attack) that can be removed with a few castings of Restoration. While I agree there should be some consequence for death, the loss of a level doesn't really fit anymore.
Thank you very much indeed! That's what I needed.
A questin, though.
3000 gp for a 3rd level charatcer seems fair, although I couldn't find any magic amor worth less than 750 gp... all armors have a set price of 1000 gp which in fact sounds a bit weird. Is this a +1000 gp cost on the base cost of the armor (banded mail 250 gp, banded mail +1 1250 gp?)
Yep, the 1000 gp is the cost of making the armor +1, so the total cost would be 1250 gp.
yes, you also have to pay for the masterwork component of the armor as well.
yes, you also have to pay for the masterwork component of the armor as well.
I guess this is already covered in the +1000 gp price... right?
BTW this also means you can't afford a magical armor before 4th level? (talking strictly by the rules of course)
Level 3 actually, and that would be for a simple +1 armor.
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Raise Dead and Resurrection no longer cause level loss
Thanks for the correction. I'm still quite behind on many of the spell adjustments (the learning curve has me bent out of date).
.... Hmmm, I'll have to look at the three spells, now -- I felt that Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Res were quite well designed in 3E, with no need for redesigning. Hmmm...
I thought they gave negative levels that could be removed with a restoration spell.
Level 3 actually, and that would be for a simple +1 armor.
3rd level allows for 3000 gp worth of equipment of which 750 gp (25%) of armor.
With 750 you cannot afford even a +1 armor...Or am I missing something?
that is a guideline, a defensive minded character can certainly spend his money skewed towards armor as opposed to a weapon. Magic weapons are twice the price of armor so following that guideline too closely would mean no magic weapons or armor for you. I'm sure a wizard would spend his money differently (no armor at all and maybe an enhancement to his bonded weapon.)
I thought they gave negative levels that could be removed with a restoration spell.
They do, that was what I was saying in the post above, instead of causing you to lose a level, putting you at a fairly permanent disadvantage in terms of experience, they cause you gain one or two negative levels, that put you at a temporary disadvantage.
Personally I'm a fan of the change, along with all the other changes that removed experience loss entirely from the game. Having to decide what you gained at which level if you lost one or more levels was a pain, and removing XP costs from spells and magic items means alternate levelling systems are possible. (For instance, it's dead easy for the DM to just let everyone know when they level instead of tracking individual XP).
(For instance, it's dead easy for the DM to just let everyone know when they level instead of tracking individual XP).
It was dead easy before.
(For instance, it's dead easy for the DM to just let everyone know when they level instead of tracking individual XP).It was dead easy before.
Not in 3.5 it wasn't. Half the time players would be losing varying amounts of XP to crafting, XP cost spells and the like. If one or two party members slipped behind in level, you had to calculate the XP everyone gained separately, as the lower level characters would gain more XP for facing the same CR encounter.
It wasn't all that hard sure, but you couldn't easily just tell everyone at the end of a long session or two, "You've all leveled, please update your characters by next week" because you couldn't be sure everyone had the same XP total. (At least, if you were trying to run it RAW)
In Pathfinder you can easily total up the XP for all the encounters, and be pretty certain everyone is going to level together.
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Level 3 actually, and that would be for a simple +1 armor.3rd level allows for 3000 gp worth of equipment of which 750 gp (25%) of armor.
With 750 you cannot afford even a +1 armor...
Or am I missing something?
The 25% bit is a guideline, not a restriction. You can spend 1,500 GP on just armor if you really want, unless your DM says otherwise.
And Masterwork price is not factored into the +1. So your +1 armor would cost 1,000 + 150 + base armor cost.
The wealth by level chart that others have mentioned is definitely a good start, but it can lead to some serious min-maxing at times. If you want new characters to feel a bit more organic and hold back the min-maxing a little, I'd suggest giving them the starting wealth for a character one or two levels lower, and then making up the difference in starting wealth by randomly selecting some loot for them. This way they don't end up with all hand selected gear, while the rest of the party just has what they've managed to find or craft.
I think this depends on the game. I pretty much make available to my party whatever they want over time. So when a player is creating a new character in my game, they give me a list of things they like, and i pick from it as i do their 'wishlists' as the game progresses. So basically i think however the dm gives out treasure (whether its random, whether the party sells everything and buys new things, or what have you) do it that way, just all at once.
Well of course it's a guideline, just like everything else in the game I guess :) but thank you very much for sharing your home brew choices. I was just investigating the RAW ruleset as if I was writing a software to generate higher level characters. It really sounds strange to me that according to the rules by the word, you won0t be able to afford magic armor before 4th level (25% of 6000 gp = 1500 gp. Cost of a +1 banded mail 250+150+1000=1400 gp). But in the end it might make sense, it allows the player to find the real treasure in adventuring.
Well of course it's a guideline, just like everything else in the game I guess :) but thank you very much for sharing your home brew choices. I was just investigating the RAW ruleset as if I was writing a software to generate higher level characters. It really sounds strange to me that according to the rules by the word, you won0t be able to afford magic armor before 4th level (25% of 6000 gp = 1500 gp. Cost of a +1 banded mail 250+150+1000=1400 gp). But in the end it might make sense, it allows the player to find the real treasure in adventuring.
Well, glad we could help (at least somewhat). The bit under wealth by level that mentions spending X% on each category really is just a guideline though, the very next line of the text is:
"Different character types might spend their wealth differently than these percentages suggest; for example, arcane casters might spend very little on weapons but a great deal more on other magic items and disposable items."
It might not be entirely fair to just apply those percentages as a hard and fast rule.
Well of course it's a guideline, just like everything else in the game I guess :) but thank you very much for sharing your home brew choices. I was just investigating the RAW ruleset as if I was writing a software to generate higher level characters. It really sounds strange to me that according to the rules by the word, you won0t be able to afford magic armor before 4th level (25% of 6000 gp = 1500 gp. Cost of a +1 banded mail 250+150+1000=1400 gp). But in the end it might make sense, it allows the player to find the real treasure in adventuring.
Or, you couuld just give them a few simple items. Based on what the party has got so far.
At level 3, You get either a +1 weapon or +1 Armor, 3 level 1 potions, all the standard gear you can carry, a minor item or two to be chosen by the GM. I'd allow a Wizard to take a scroll ro two as well. this also allows you to add in something to help balance the party.
And your WIS as dice for coins ( WIS x d10 for CP, x d8 for SP, x d6 for GP and x d4 for PP. Plus your WIS in each coin. So a character with WIS 13 would roll 13d10, +13 for CP; 13d8, +13 for SP, etc.)
Why WIS, I assume that higher Wisdom characters are better at not splurging thier money...
Just a guideline. For higher level characters, you can add more to the pot and more to the MI choices.
It makes it quick and doesn't allow for as much min-maxing.
Don't forget about all of the "simi-magic" items that characters should just be acquiring at around level 3-4:
Cold iron and silver weapons.
Darkwood and mithral weapons or armor.
Holy water, alchemists fire, antitoxin, tanglefoot bags and thunderstones.
Then there are the REALLY nice-to-have single use items:
Potion of...
Protection from evil
Remove blindness - (better then a scroll!)
Delay poison
Resist energy (fire or acid)
Remove paralysis
Lesser restoration
Remove poison
Cure Disease
Waterbreathing
Oil of magic weapon
Oil of align weapon
It is a wonder there is anything left for magic weapons and armor at all.