Heroclix


Card & Board Games


I just read issue 9.The heroclix article does a brilliant job of showing how inadequate and ridiculous the Heroclix rules are.And I quote "...Thor hide behind Invisible Girl...". Say that aloud (I'll wait).We made our own rules almost from the start.Add MKDungeon,bits of D&D, a pinch of M&M in a blender.Mix well.I just feel sorry for all the people who waited and waited for a quick and easy superhero battle game.They got stuck with some of the worst rules ever made.If anyone calls, take a message. I'll be playing Heroclix3.5 and having fun.


I vaguely remember a broken rule in MK 1.0 that allowed a figure to hide behind an invisible figure. Kinda counterintuitive. At least Sue Storm could theoretically make Thor invisible for little or no effort (in the comic books at least). Or Thor's a big sissy, hiding behind a girl. One or the other.


I play mostly at home, but even when I hit one or two of my local venues to play in a tournament, they both have a house rule specifically dealing with this problem.

The general thought is "Only Stealthed (Invisible) characters should benefit from Stealth."

They assume Stealth isn't just Concealment, it's also active dodging, or using some other method of "disrupting" your opponent's targeting capability.

So, a character in Stealth on the Gumball machine adds an additional +1 Hindering terrain penalty. You can't hit the Stealthed character (as per the description) and what ever he/she is doing is throwing off taking an effective shot at those behind.

I finally recieved my copy yesterday of issue #9.

I love the mag as a whole, and love the facelift. And I loved the layout of the HC Team article. I like seeing the dials, I like the explanations of why the character made the team.

The article also made me realize I don't see all that much use of Barrier at the local venues. My cousin and I don't use it a lot. I don't see Smoke Cloud used all that much either. (Except with Stealth characters like Mysterio or any Batman Ally team member.)

Is there room in Undefeated to do more "general" HC strategy articles, ones that might focus on Powers/Abilities not often seen?

Back to Barrier, I wonder how a Barrier centered team might look. Should it focus on a close-combat bruiser? Or be a bunch of range-shooters? Moving in and out from behind Barriers? Would such a team be flexible enough to stand up to an HSS-focused team? What about these anti-Stealth Ultimates teams that are the team du jour?

Anyway, I liked #9's article. Hope to see more of it in the future. :)


As luck would have it, I played a Barrier-heavy team just last weekend, with Pyro and a good barrier maker (with 2 target Incapacitate at range, sorry, I"m terrible with names).

You're right, Barrier isn't often used, which is why I wanted to try it in a team theme. In this game, I used it to tie down the veteran Green Arrow (10" range is BRUTAL)...he can't shoot through them, and by pushing, I kept the barriers up long enough for my Blob to give some tender lovin' to him.

The heavy hitter in my team was Judge Dredd...again, he has 2 target Incapacitate. So, anything that comes around the Barriers is going to get pushed. That was the theory, anway, although mostly I used Barrier to restrict lines of fire instead of movement.

I'm not sure it's the strongest strategy around. I won, but it was a brutally hard fought match (although perhaps Blob isn't the best melee support); I healed up perhaps 15 points of damage (yay Probability Control!), it was the only thing that saved me.

Take care,

Rick


Thanks for the props, grey_zealot. We really like the way the HeroClix article looks too.

As for the theme strategy suggestion, we're starting a new feature series in #10 called the "Essential" series. Each article takes a strategic archetype from a game--the first two are Sligh (Magic: The Gathering) and Burn (Vs. System)--and describes what they are, what makes them work, and gives examples of how to make them.

The goal is to pass along not just some winning builds, but to show the thought process that created that build. That way, you can carry that knowledge forward.

Got a suggestion for an Essential HeroClix archetype?


I wrote the article you're discussing, so thanks for all the feedback. Willy, you're right that the HeroClix rules don't do a perfect job of capturing every element of the comics, but I don't see how they could without becoming orders of magnitude more complex than the designers intended. HeroClix is an accessible game that is easy for newcomers to grasp, but in casual play it also lends itself to the house rules you mentioned. I have a great time playing it either way.

The new cards that come in Mutant Mayhem boosters (and that will come in Legacy boosters) should do a great job of fixing some of the major restrictions posed by the fixed stat dials and really help figures play more like their comic book counterparts.

Regarding Barrier, it's one of the most useful powers in the entire game and can completely wreck your opponent's plans. Many players rely on "Telekinesis cannons" to shoot low-cost heavy hitters like Justice Is Served or charging bruisers like Doc Samson into the fray, and properly-placed barriers defang that tactic. Remember that soaring figures can throw a barrier at their full range over the heads of intervening grounded figures, which makes Iceman much more useful than he looks at first glance. Also remember that you only need line of sight to place the first barrier token, which effectively increases the Barrier figure's range and makes it much easier to wall characters in completely.

With the impending retirement of Clobberin' Time and much of Xplosion, most of the best Barrier figures unfortunately are going bye-bye (I'll really miss the George Tarleton LE from CT). Only U Mimic, U Loki, and LE Angelica Jones have the power in the Mutant Mayhem set, and it isn't front-loaded on any of them, so don't expect to see any teams built around this power in future sanctioned tournament games.

As for teams that work best with Barrier, it somewhat depends on your style of play, but it can be devastating when used in conjunction with a decent Hypersonic Speed figure like V Black Adam, U Amazo, U Nightcrawler, U Shazam, LE OWAW Superman, or even U KC Superman. The trick with HSS figures is getting them within striking range without exposing them to retaliation, and throwing a barrier around them as they move closer to an enemy or retreat back towards home is a great way to do that. Don't worry about creating a team that can run out from behind barriers because you'll never have to -- the barrier tokens always disappear at the beginning of your next turn, opening up your lines of fire. That said, Running Shot characters are great for use with Barrier because they can hide behind blocking terrain, run out to take a shot, and then get protected by a barrier.

Doom, I'm glad to hear you're using Dredd. He's definitely one of the most underrated figures in the game. In fact, so many IndyClix figures are underrated that it would be easy to write an entire article about this seemingly forgotten set. Throw V Shi, LE Witchblade, V Bron, any Johnny Alpha, V Rasputin, or LE Aphrodite on a team if you want to see what I mean. Many of these figures have great range and deal huge damage for a very low cost.

Finally, you mentioned that Probability Control saved you in your last game, and as you likely gleaned from the article it is one of my favorite powers. With the whittling down of available Barrier figures for tournament play I'm looking more and more into fielding teams that use multiple Probability Controllers to dramatically boost my Attack and Defense stats. Couple the power with figures that have Supersenses or team abilities like Danger Girl and your opponent will get sick at the thought of attacking you. Domino from the new Mutant Mayhem set looks to be an incredible PC figure for the points, and should make a decent replacement for the soon-to-be-retired Black Cat.


Hey, you mighta gleaned from MY article (with a Mind Control team) it's one of my favorite powers as well...I especially like using it with a Defend character, since this ability best allows you to maximize the usefulness of Probability Control (since it gets better the harder the rolls your opponenent needs to make).

I'm not so sure multiple control will work well; I find that keeping the controller in line of sight of everything she (I tend to use Scarlet Witch) needs to see can be problematic, and doing it for two characters sounds almost impossible.

Yeah, Dredd is cool...starting off with Outwit is darn helpful, since I can mess up an opponent's plans right way. I'm also, of late, a big fan of double target Incapacitate.

In Mechwarrior, there's an ability, "heavy armor" (among others) that reduces damage...but over half the pieces in the game have one or more armor-piercing attack. High damage values on even lower cost pieces even further reduce the usefulness of armor.

On the other hand, few characters have a good way to get past Toughness, and even fewer low cost figures have damage 4 or more, where reducing things a click still hurts bad.

But, Incapacitate cuts right through Toughness (at least for pushing), and gives a bonus effect as well...and two targets doubles the fun!

Ah well, back to the funnies,

Rick


Doom wrote:

Hey, you mighta gleaned from MY article (with a Mind Control team) it's one of my favorite powers as well...

Oh ho! Are you the guy who did the Professor X/SHIELD team article?

If so, cool! I have yet to use that exact team; I used the article as a spring board, trying to come up with my own version for a strictly "villain" team.

With MODOK coming out in Mutant Mayhem, I'll be revisiting it.

(It's going to be tough, as I'd like to hit a tourney one more time, using MODOK for a Hydra-centered team. And all the Hydra/AIM agents are retired!! (LoL) I'll be stuck with MODOK, Dreadnoughts, and Hand Ninjas!)

Your and Mr. Baker's comments are making me wonder if I can get a good Mind Control/Barrier/ProbCon team assembled.


Michael Mikaelian wrote:


Got a suggestion for an Essential HeroClix archetype?

Probably the most universally hated team type these days is the "hooker bomb." A bunch of con artists, sometimes with a Pulse Wave on the team to get them all to their Perplex click in one action. This is often combined with a Sentinel to devastating (and frustrating) effect. Not even incorporating the Rule of Three to Heroclix put much of a dent in this strategy.

Another archetype I run into frequently is a team based on Stealth. Batman team figures are popular, but anyone with Stealth can find a place on the team. Immune to Outwit. Immune to a high percentage of ranged attacks. Park a figure with Stealth and a decent ranged attack in cover on a building corner and you've got a sniper pinning down most of the map.

The counter strategy to the Stealth team, of course, is an Ultimates team.

One of my least favorite team types is the Wildcard Abuse team - a bunch of Minions of Doom or Spider-Man Allies combined with figures from the right teams to give them access to almost any team ability. Rookie Robin and Steel gives everyone Stealth and "anti-Stealth." A Hydra or Shield medic will give everyone ways to boost ranged attacks, and rookie Invisible Girl not only lets everyone get clicks of healing when someone dies, but her high defense and Defend power can make the team tough to crack.

I also humbly offer my services to write the article about any of these team archetypes - I'm a professional freelance writer. I've already sent an email in response to the "Writers Wanted" thread. :-)


I hate using multiples of the same figure on my teams, but using two R Domino figures from the MM set is very tempting. With Stealth, Supersenses, and PC on her first two clicks she's easy to hide and hard to hit, yet she still has a ranged attack and does two damage all the way down her dial for 35 points. Her combined powers really mitigate the line-of-sight issues.

I'm also a huge fan of multi-target Incapacitate and multi-target Energy Explosion. The cheap Enhancement figures in MM will really help EE teams, and the set also has a few exciting triple-incapacitators in Vertigo and Dagger. Getting them into range may be a problem, but it's always easier to take advantage of multiple-target incap than it is to pull off an multi-target EE attack.


I've never used duplicate figures on a team either, except for generic figures like AIM Agents. That's in part because I only bother to collect one of each figure, but also because I like the game to be fun and "comic bookish.". Actually, I've never really built teams like the archetypes I mentioned above. I always seem to put together "all-around" teams, with a good mix of abilities, or teams designed specifically to counter a strategy I know I'll be facing.

I'm very fond of taxiing in figures with the Mastermind/Poison combo to deal with turtle teams that stack all their figures around R Invisible Girl. Once they scatter the team to avoid the Poison damage, I pick them off with a good ranged attacker. Keeping a medic or two in reserve works well against these annoying teams, because they can't stick to their turtle tactics and still cross the board to take out your medics. You can run in, take your shot, push for another, and then run back and heal.


Poison is so good. It really slaps around anyone that wants to hang together.


Yeah, Poison is great, like getting a free action that guarantees damage.

But, the only way I ever make it work is either with Mastermind (problematic, since you might well take a huge load of damage to deliver two clicks), or with Incapacitate. The latter is even more problematic, since you need to hit and push what you plan to Poison, usually forgoing a click of damage...in exchange for doing a click of damage from Venom, and if defense is so high that Poison is the answer, I sure don't want to use a tactic that requires me to roll to hit so that I don't need to roll to hit.

So, what's the 'real' way to use Venom to great effect?

Take care,

Rick


Doom wrote:


But, the only way I ever make it work is either with Mastermind (problematic, since you might well take a huge load of damage to deliver two clicks).

So, what's the 'real' way to use Venom to great effect?

You actually said it yourself - you risk taking a load of damage to do two clicks. Poison is for that specific situation where you will have a very difficult time hitting the figure normally because of a high defense or Stealth. Although you may sacrifice a figure to do it, once you deal those two (or hopefully a few more) clicks, you have probably solved the problem. The defense score has dropped, the figure is less useful, maybe they even lost Stealth. You've thrown a serious wrench into your opponent's strategy. Meanwhile, you spent, what, 35 points on a figure with Poison? You still come out way ahead.

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