There has to be one because quite a few of them involve fractions of 1,000 gp; if the prices were just a 'ballpark' they would all be in flat thousounds of gp, if not tens of thousands. Does anyone know what it is?
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There has to be one because quite a few of them involve fractions of 1,000 gp; if the prices were just a 'ballpark' they would all be in flat thousounds of gp, if not tens of thousands. Does anyone know what it is?
The prices in the Complete Arcane are much more consistent with a formula than the ones in the DMG. It took me a while to come up with a formula, but I did it -- I just don't remember what it is anymore. Basically --
+0 Level Metamagic Feats -- 2,700 gp Lesser, 10,500 gp Normal, 24,300 Greater -- Example: Energy Substitution
+1 Level Metamagic Feats -- 5,400 gp Lesser, 21,600 gp Normal, 48,600 Greater -- Example: Enlarge Spell
+2 Level Metamagic Feats -- 13,500 gp Lesser, 54,000 gp Normal, 121,500 Greater -- Example: Empower Spell
+3 Level Metamagic Feats -- 27,200 gp Lesser, 108,000 gp Normal, 243,000 Greater -- Example: Chain Spell or Maximize Spell
+4 Level Metamagic Feats -- 46,000 gp Lesser, 184,000 gp Normal, 414,000 Greater -- Example: Quicken Spell or Twin Spell
+5 Level Metamagic Feats -- 70,200 gp Lesser, 280,800 gp Normal, 631,800 Greater -- Example: Fortify Spell or Heighten Spell
+6 Level Metamagic Feats -- 100,000 gp Lesser, 400,000 gp Normal, 900,000 Greater -- Example: Persistent Spell
(I didn't go higher than that as there really weren't any feats higher and the cost was quickly getting prohibative.)
Let me know if you still want the formula that I came up with. I will need to do some work on it, but I think that I can probably duplicate my work if I put my mind to it.
There has to be one because quite a few of them involve fractions of 1,000 gp; if the prices were just a 'ballpark' they would all be in flat thousounds of gp, if not tens of thousands. Does anyone know what it is?The prices in the Complete Arcane are much more consistent with a formula than the ones in the DMG. It took me a while to come up with a formula, but I did it -- I just don't remember what it is anymore. Basically --
+0 Level Metamagic Feats -- 2,700 gp Lesser, 10,500 gp Normal, 24,300 Greater -- Example: Energy Substitution
+1 Level Metamagic Feats -- 5,400 gp Lesser, 21,600 gp Normal, 48,600 Greater -- Example: Enlarge Spell
+2 Level Metamagic Feats -- 13,500 gp Lesser, 54,000 gp Normal, 121,500 Greater -- Example: Empower Spell
+3 Level Metamagic Feats -- 27,200 gp Lesser, 108,000 gp Normal, 243,000 Greater -- Example: Chain Spell or Maximize Spell
+4 Level Metamagic Feats -- 46,000 gp Lesser, 184,000 gp Normal, 414,000 Greater -- Example: Quicken Spell or Twin Spell
+5 Level Metamagic Feats -- 70,200 gp Lesser, 280,800 gp Normal, 631,800 Greater -- Example: Fortify Spell or Heighten Spell
+6 Level Metamagic Feats -- 100,000 gp Lesser, 400,000 gp Normal, 900,000 Greater -- Example: Persistent Spell(I didn't go higher than that as there really weren't any feats higher and the cost was quickly getting prohibative.)
Let me know if you still want the formula that I came up with. I will need to do some work on it, but I think that I can probably duplicate my work if I put my mind to it.
Thanks Moff! Yes, the formula itself would be awesome 'cause it just bugs me to not know.
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Thanks Moff! Yes, the formula itself would be awesome 'cause it just bugs me to not know.
I did a little rounding to get fairly nice round numbers, but I came up with --
(Level Adjustment squared +1) * (half the +1 level cost)
So a Lesser Empowered Spell Metamagic Rod would be (2*2+1)*2,700=5*2,700= 13,500
A Normal Energy Admixture Metamagic Rod would be (4*4+1)*10,800=17*10,800 = 183,600 (I rounded it to 184,000)
And so on. This was the closest that I could come. It isn't perfect but it is a far cry better and more consistent than what was found in the DMG and I too felt that there should be more metamagic rods than simply those given.
Hope that this helps.
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And so on. This was the closest that I could come. It isn't perfect but it is a far cry better and more consistent than what was found in the DMG and I too felt that there should be more metamagic rods than simply those given.Hope that this helps.
It helps me and I wasn't even thinking of that question. Thanks for the math Moff!
And my students always ask me "When am I ever going to need to know this?"
I am of course a math teacher and this is a great example of when they need to know how to use formulas (Of course the school I work at they laugh at me when I mention I play along with 3 others at the school) :)
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And my students always ask me "When am I ever going to need to know this?"
I am of course a math teacher and this is a great example of when they need to know how to use formulas (Of course the school I work at they laugh at me when I mention I play along with 3 others at the school) :)
I was a math teacher for a time.
The one formula that I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to is with golem manuals. I worked on that for around two days and gave up. If anyone has a formula for that, I would be interested in hearing about it.
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I did a little rounding to get fairly nice round numbers, but I came up with --(Level Adjustment squared +1) * (half the +1 level cost)
You might also notice that a "Normal" Metamagic Rod is (approximately) 4 times a "Lesser" one and a "Greater" one is around 9 times the cost of a "Lesser" one.
What seems strange to me is that 2,700 gp is an odd base multiplier to use compared to all of their other magic bonus multipliers.
I was a math teacher for a time.
The one formula that I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to is with golem manuals. I worked on that for around two days and gave up. If anyone has a formula for that, I would be interested in hearing about it.
It's a small world. Where is this formula found at, I would love to take a look at it and maybe give it as a test question.
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It's a small world. Where is this formula found at, I would love to take a look at it and maybe give it as a test question.
There is no formula -- I was trying to come up with one. Take a look at the costs/values of the golem manuals in the DMG. The values don't seem to have any kind of direct correlation to CR, HD, spells used in creation, CL, or anything else tangible that I can use. I could just be missing it, but I have a feeling that the creators, at the time, just came up with a value that "felt" right. The metamagic rods in the DMG also seem to have this feel as well. (IMO) The other problem is that there haven't been any other books out that have golem manuals in them to compare.
As far as test question, I still think that it (should) have to do with spells with related costs, etc. which requires a bit more understanding of D&D in general. Not sure if it will work as a test question, but good luck if it does.
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Slightly off-topic but what the hell is Fortify Spell and where can it be found? It just *SOUNDS* cool. Is it a Complete Arcane thing?
To my knowledge, there currently aren't any metamagic feats that (only) raise a spell level by 5 levels. The only ones that I came up with were Heighten spell and Fortify spell.
Heighten spell adds one "spell level" to the spell in question which in turn inproves the DC of the spell.
Fortify spell is very similar. And yes it can be found in Complete Arcane. It improves your chance to get through Spell Resistance by adding a number to the attempt equal to the number of spell levels you add to the spell. So, if you were a 12th level spellcaster trying to cast a fireball spell to get through spell resistance, you could add three levels to the fireball spell, making it equivalent to a 6th level spell and you would add 15 (12+3) to your roll to get through spell resistance. It doesn't say specifically, but I don't see why it wouldn't stack with Spell Penetration.
The problem with Heighten spell and Fortify spell is that the spell level increase is variable. For that reason, I came up with a Fortify Spell Metamagic Rod with +1 level increase, +2 level increase, etc. up to +6. Basically 6 different metamagic rod types. (And the same with Heighten spell.)
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As far as test question, I still think that it (should) have to do with spells with related costs, etc. which requires a bit more understanding of D&D in general. Not sure if it will work as a test question, but good luck if it does.
You could simplify it and effectively 'un-D&D' it for your students by equating spell levels to 'eyes of newt.' For example:
Morloch the Wizard needs eye of newt to cast his spells. He wants to cast a spell to make his secret forest home invisible. His home is 1250 sq. ft. The first square foot of his home requires one eye of newt to render invisible. For each additional eye of newt used in the spell, the amount of space made invisible increases by 1.9 times. If eyes of newt cost 5 gold pieces from the local apothecary, how many gold pieces will Morloch need to spend in order to have enough eyes for the spell to render his entire home invisible?
I'm really bad at math, so I don't know if that is even worded in a way that is functional, but its a thought.
Thanks for the reply on Fortify. I'm done threadjacking now.
Hope that this helps.
I'm not following your equation. Am I missing something, or did you leave out the 'lesser, normal or greater' factor? I think I'm not reading right because I'm coming up with different numbers with your formula:
Empower:
2 X 2 = 4
4 + 1 = 5
5 X 2.5 (5/2) = 10.5
= 10,500 gp
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I'm not following your equation.
Ok, let me try again. Let's look at Maximize. Maximize is +3 levels. So for a Lesser Maximize Metamagic Rod --
3x3 = 9
9+1 = 10
10x3,000 = 30,000
(I believe that ericthecleric is correct in reducing this by 10%, so...)
90% of 30,000 = 27,000
To get a "Normal" metamagic rod the cost is 4 times the Lesser Metamagic Rod, so...
27,000x4 = 108,000
To get a "Greater" metamagic rod the cost is 9 times the Lesser Metamagic Rod, so...
27,000x9 = 243,000
With some of the amounts I rounded a little bit. (The creators/writers seemed to do a little bit of this in the Complete Arcane as it was.) For instance: Take a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Persistent Spell (Complete Arcane). This will add 6 levels to a spell, so...
6x6 = 36
36+1 = 37
37x3,000 = 111,000
90% of 111,000 = 99,900 gp.
This felt like it was close enough to 100,000 gp to round up, so I did. (I also felt that if I were to round, it was better to round up rather than down for these items.)
If it helps, for "normal" metamagic rods, you can replace the 3,000 (in the equation) with 12,000 and for "greater" rods you can replace the 3,000 with 27,000.
Hope that this helps.
Yes it does Moff, thanks a bunch of ever-lucky dice!
I'm attempting to make wondrous items that imbue feats(including meta-magic feats) as continuous effects.
the usual math would be spell level* castern lvl*2,000gp (+ other duration, slot-less related adjusters)
so i figure, (Level Adjustment squared +1) * (half the +1 level cost) * 2000 pg
does that sound right?
the 2 meta magic feats i'm most interested in are Still still spell and silent spell. as i have a character concept for a spell caster that's had its tongue cut out, and is missing a hand.
Also, i'm looking at the Warbringers rod from Complete Mage(pg129). its math doesn't add up. as per the usually crafting rules, 1 day/1,ooogp it should only take 4 days to make, its claiming 8 days.
what ability allows it to simultaneously cast to spells? or is that just a rod thing?