| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Has there been a official ruling regarding the ability of a lev. 17 barbarian to get into a rage and out of it during the same turn, in order to nullifies its associated penalties during the remaining of the round, and to enable the barbarian to use his once per rage powers every round?
There seems to be many people thinking along those lines since a lot of barb build suggestions incorporate some ways to be immune to fatigue before lev 17 in order to get that trick going earlier.
Now, what if a errata was issued on the barbarian ability, going along the lines :
Old :
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.
New :
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage. In addition, the barbarian’s once per rage rage powers are now treated as once per round.
This would actually mean you don’t end your rage every round and undergo the silliness some have pointed out, while keeping the rage penalties and benefits (through rage powers selection and rage features) out of your turn.
What do you think?
Of course those who do not wait for the barbarian lev.17 to get the trick going will still have to face the angry look of their DM when trying to justify their strength surge every round and no AC penalty on ennemies' turn.
-Jelly
Has there been a official ruling regarding the ability of a lev. 17 barbarian to get into a rage and out of it during the same turn, in order to nullifies its associated penalties during the remaining of the round, and to enable the barbarian to use his once per rage powers every round?
There seems to be many people thinking along those lines since a lot of barb build suggestions incorporate some ways to be immune to fatigue before lev 17 in order to get that trick going earlier.
Now, what if a errata was issued on the barbarian ability, going along the lines :
Old :
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.New :
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage. In addition, the barbarian’s once per rage rage powers are now treated as once per round.This would actually mean you don’t end your rage every round and undergo the silliness some have pointed out, while keeping the rage penalties and benefits (through rage powers selection and rage features) out of your turn.
What do you think?
Of course those who do not wait for the barbarian lev.17 to get the trick going will still have to face the angry look of their DM when trying to justify their strength surge every round and no AC penalty on ennemies' turn.
-Jelly
At level 17? I don't see why not. At that high of level you are already dealing with 9th level spells. I'm not well verse, but I doubt Auspicious Mark or Sprint being used multiple times per combat would be as damning as anything else you can muster up at level freaken 17.
I can roll a 1d6 to my d20 if i miss. "You where missing?!!?!"
I can go 3x my charge speed every round now. "You weren't hitting something?" :p
Yes, this is a legal combination. I do not think they should keep the penalties.
For reference, the wizard is now bending reality itself twice per day by casting Wish.
Seriously, there are so many ways to get Fatigue immunity, either limited or un-limited, that you can´t NOT accept that this is fully intended. Generally you have to go a little bit out of your way for real-deal unlimited immunity, but not really all that much out of your way:
1 level Oracle dip (Lame Curse), counting subsequent Barb levels @1/2 towards Curse = Fatigue Immunity around 9th character level).
A 5 level dip in Martial Artist monk also works.
Even a pure Barbarian (Scarred Rager Archetype, which I love even aside from this aspect) gets a ´limited´ version of it from *2nd LEVEL* : offensive/on-your-turn-Rage-only, and you suffer from Fatigue ´off your Turn´ which gives you vulnerability to becoming Exhausted (Rage Fatigue duration reduced to half, i.e. 1 round Rage = 1 round duration Fatigue, so end it the same turn you start it, and you aren´t Fatigued at the beginning of your next Turn).
There´s other options as well (Human Heart of the Fields for 1/day immunity to Fatigue OR Exhaustion, and probably other stuff), besides just Fatigue Condition removal).
Note that none of this stuff changes the basic fact that going into and out of Rage every round either leaves you missing out on Rage´s benefits either on or off your turn (depending when you start/end Rage), or paying double Rage Rounds (if your GM allows re-entering Rage multiple times per turn).
Rage cycling is a perfectly legal strategy. This is why most people consider the cap stone of the barbarian to be at lvl 17 and not at 20. There are no penalties other than the extra rage round costs (what else are you gonna use all of them for anyway).
Here is how it works.
Round 1:
Enter rage
Do stuff - use a 1/rage power
Round 2:
Exit rage
Enter Rage
Do stuff - use same 1/rage power you used in round 1
You can do this because entering and exiting a rage is a free action. Please note that in doing this your first round of rage costs 1 rage round but that second round is costing you 2 rage rounds. This is because rage rounds end just before your next turn and so when you start your next turn you are charged for a second round before you can turn it off and then when you turn it back on you are charged another. So overall rage cycling costs: rnd1=1 rage, rnd 2=2 rage, rnd 3=2 rage, etc.
You may even do something like this.
Round 1:
Enter rage
use 1/rage power
Exit rage
Enter Rage
Use same 1/rage power
etc.
You could use this to do something like use str surge on multiple sunder checks while full attacking.
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You may even do something like this.
Round 1:
Enter rage
use 1/rage power
Exit rage
Enter Rage
Use same 1/rage power
etc.You could use this to do something like use str surge on multiple sunder checks while full attacking.
Only if the DM chooses to permit it. By RAW, the DM is permitted to place limits on the number of free actions you can take in one round.
RAI, the ability to place a limit on the number of free actions a player can take is there to prevent exactly this kind of abuse.
As a DM, I would not stop someone from performing a small number of discreet free actions, but I certainly would not permit a player to perform the same action repeatedly.
The comparison: speaking a few words is a free action, a longer speech is not. You would not be permitted to break a speech into unlimited 3-word bits to get around the limitation. Same applies to other free actions.
You could use this to do something like use str surge on multiple sunder checks while full attacking.
I wouldn´t have used Sunder as an example of this in play during a Full-Attack... ;-)
(though if you levels of Monk it could work...)
I fully acknowledge everything said so far. Yet my main point remains:
Any official stance in the forums from Mister J.J. or J.B. on the matter ? FAQ or errata I missed ?
While RAW allows it (pending free action economy DM approval), is it RAI ? There is nowhere mention that you can convert a once per rage event to once per round or even multiple times per round event, like immunity to fatigue seems to mechanically imply.
So yeah, I question the very RAI behind that, even though many ways to “immunity to fatigue” can be achieved (you missed Horizon Walker btw Quandary), it cannot be said to be aimed at fixing/enhancing the Barbarian mechanics. Gaining immunity to fatigue increases your options by an order of magnitude. No other class rely on such a single boon, achieved MOST of the time by dipping in another class.
So if it's RAI, there should be an entry for that or something. I hate bringing debatable builds to the table.
Plus it’s silly. I want to rage all the time in combat, not like a freakn terahertz switching device.
-Jelly
I FAQed you up there!
:0, I mean, I pressed "FAQ", ya' know, up there at your 1st post.
;)