Bluespawn Stormlizard

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RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. Organized Play Member. 154 posts (200 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters. 2 aliases.


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I just want to say a very grateful "Thank You" to everyone involved in bringing this 2e update to the Crown of the Kobold King series. These adventures were among the first I ran for my table when I was first introduced to Pathfinder and I had actually been contemplating updating the adventures (as well as a few of the other old modules) to 2e to run my first 2e campaign. I am happily awaiting the release of the anniversary edition and the chance to pit the might of the Kobold King up against a new squad of heroes!


I would totally be down for this sequel adventure if anyone decided to compile these adventures and update them using the 2e rules.

Brinebeast wrote:

So I wanted to see if there was a way to pull Carnival of Tears, Revenge of the Kobold King, Realm of the Fellnight Queen, and Guardians of Dragon Fall into combined story that would serve as a sequel to the Crown of the Kobold King Anniversary Edition. Looking at the Fey eliminates included in Hollow’s Last Hope, I realized they planted some really good seeds for a bigger fey themed adventure.

The biggest issue was Guardians of Dragon Fall as that whole adventure was largely retconned and basically has to be rewritten. However, simply changing the theme from dragons to draconic fey really started to add a solid through line to the adventures. Plus, this allows a lot more of Guardians of Dragon Fall to be salvaged. Below is what I came up with.

Carnival of Tears (Level 7-8)
Relations with the Fey were already strained from the logging operations, but the release of a powerful burst of necromantic energy upset the local Fey beyond reason. They Fey of Darkmoon Vale have called out to the First World for Aid. An icy patron has heard that call and has set a plan in motion to avenge the troubled Fey. An icy herald rides to Darkmoon Vale to bring about cold revenge on Falcon’s Hollow.
Revenge of the Kobold King (Level 8-9)
They Fey are not the only ones seeking revenge. Given new life in undeath, the Kobold King has built an undead army and plans to conquer all of Darkmoon Vale. Can the heroes ally with the Fey of Falcon’s Hollow long enough to stop the forces of the Kobold King.
Realm of the Fellnight Queen (Level 10-11)
The heroes have gained Syntira, a powerful Nymph Queen, as their patron. As a “thank you?” for their assistance in defeating the undead forces of the Kobold King, she has tasked the heroes with investigating rumors of a dark and mysterious Fey arising in power in the Verduran Forest. Transported to the outskirts of the town of Bellis, what new dangers await the heroes in the forest’s shadows.
Guardians of Reaching Claw (Level 11-12) (aka Guardians of...


My issue has been resolved.

My thanks to Diego from customer support for helping me figure out the issue.


I have attempted multiple times unsuccessfully to order a copy of the PDF version of the PF2 Core Rulebook. When I click "place order" nothing happens and I get no confirmation. Also the product is still in my shopping cart. The debit for the product shows up on my bank account where it lingers for a few days until it eventually drops off because the sale did not go through. I'm not sure what could be going wrong and potentially I may be making an error and not realizing it. Any help that you could provide in resolving the issue would be most appreciated.

Thank you,


Cellion wrote:
I would be totally OK with this in a game I GM'd without any feats or traits, but if you want to stick by the rules you need something to let you do it. Talonhawke ninja'd me with the simpler option, but another way of gaining this ability is via: Improved Whip Mastery

I've been playing my Simon Belmont themed Magus in a Rappan Athuk campaign a friend of mine has been running. I've enjoyed Whip Mastery quite a bit. I'll be picking up Improved Whip Mastery next level and I agree it should allow you to get all of that cinematic fun you're "Jonesing" for.

My apologies for the pun, but I couldn't resist, lol.


I just want to give a big thank you to everyone who came out and tossed in their two coppers. Even though it's obvious that the modifications that I referred to in my opening post do not appeal to everyone, I feel that you all took it for what it was and offered some great advice.

I feel like I have a good basis for what I want to do to add in these "realistic" elements but not deterring from the aspects of the game that are fun. The community is one of the reasons why I enjoy playing Pathfinder so much!

I failed to mention this earlier, but one of the reasons why my mind returned to this quandary was because I have been running the Reign of Winter Adventure Path for one of my gaming groups which features a lot of trudging through a snow covered wilderness with only occasional opportunities to restock and resupply at a settlement. That may change as the group has finally reached Baba Yaga's hut and will be moving on to book 3 of the AP soon. Regardless this all gives me some great pointers for the future.

Thanks again!


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I just wanted to say thanks for all of the feedback. Based off of the suggestions I will be doing a slight rebuild of the character to insert two levels of Fighter into the build, and making plenty of room for Thunder and Fang and the other feats we discussed.

This takes the character away from the question that started this thread, but sometimes that's what happens when you start exploring options. I appreciate all of your help!


Ascalaphus wrote:

@theporkchopxpress:

I think you may be conflating several different but important concepts here.

Realism - could this happen in the real world. Almost nothing in Pathfinder could happen in the real world; no dragons, no worrying about how many calories a wizard burns when casting a fireball, no worrying about how the NPC economy works or why there's equilibrium prices for mundane objects across the entire cosmos.

Internal Consistency and Immersion - does what's happening in the current scene feel like it makes sense, like it's consistent, with what we already know about the game world? A wizard casting fireball doesn't bother us, but if a wizard suddenly casts remove disease, we're scratching our heads saying "hey, that's not right, wizards can't do that". Realistically wizards don't even exist. But what we saw here was not a breach of realism, but of internal consistency of the game world. Maintaining immersion by being consistent is quite important.

Zoom - In a movie, not everything ends up on screen. We don't say Avengers was unrealistic because we never saw people go to the toilet. In some stone-cold Scandinavian psychological thriller, we're not put off because someone eats a breakfast that we never saw him purchase.

In an RPG, just because we didn't spend any game time on refilling a spell component pouch, polishing armor or sharpening swords, doesn't mean the PCs weren't doing those things off-screen.

However, it becomes a different story if the PCs couldn't do those things. If the PCs are imprisoned and break out with scavenged gear and then wander the desert, it does make sense to ask "how are you restocking spell components?".

We're changing what the camera zooms in on because suddenly it turned from something everyday to something not so trivial.

Indeed. More great points to consider. I think I'm being guilty of what some of my players have lovingly referred to as "inserting too much physics into the Land of Fireballs". I really appreciate all of the feedback and I will definitely take Realism vs. Internal Consistency and Immersion into account going forward!


Jiggy wrote:

There's a great video from some game design experts on the concept of "Depth" versus "Complexity". It's really important to understand both the difference between the two things, and how they interact.

"Complexity" refers to all the rules, mechanics, expertise, and work that are required in order to play the game. Anything that requires either mental real estate or player action is complexity. For example, the fact that a shortsword and a longsword have different stats is a form of complexity.

"Depth" refers to how many meaningfully different gameplay experiences a game (or aspect of a game) provides to the player(s). If making a different decision makes the experience feel different, that's depth. For example, critting 25% of the time with your keen scimitar feels like a different play experience than critting 5% of the time with your club.

Here's the relationship:
Complexity is like a currency with which the game purchases depth.

Every attempt to add some depth to a game (that is, to add the possibility of additional distinct experiences) has a "cost" in the form of increased complexity (because you had to add a mechanism by which that depth would be created, and that mechanism has to be learned and executed by the players). This is important to understand because any given player has a limited "budget" of how much complexity they're willing to deal with at the top end, as well as a minimum requirement of depth they demand at the bottom end.

Therefore, it's important that when designing (or houseruling) a game, you try to "get the most bang for your buck" by finding things with a good depth to complexity ratio. (Either that, or find players with ludicrously high "budgets".) Generally, a mechanic that adds very little complexity while adding a good deal of depth is likely to be worth keeping in, but a mechanic that adds more complexity than depth is a good candidate for cutting.

For example, consider all...

I really appreciate all of the feedback, Jiggy! Thanks for the advice and for the link to the video!


Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:

I try to imagin all the little things. Without exaggerating (many things in a PC day are done without describing explictely, unless you want to play every single second).

I love realism.
Personally I'll suggest you to be as more realistic as you can.

Great advice! Using descriptive commentary to imply realism could be the compromise I've been looking for. You've given me some things to think about! I appreciate your help!


Entymal wrote:
A few ideas that work at my table:

Much appreciated! These are some great ideas. Thanks so much for your feedback!


Hello all. I have been playing this game and its famous predecessor for over twenty years now and there is a theme that comes up periodically for my players. How realistic do we want to get?

Typically the concept gets tabled because any standard practice of adding levels of realism to the game typically ends up in creating additional rules to a system that is already rules heavy. That being said there are a couple of things that pop into my head as a game master that I would prefer not to ignore if I can find a reasonable way of managing them.

1 - Spell component pouches. These handy little items can be found in most spell casters' inventories. They cost 5 gold pieces and once acquired that particular spell caster is set for life assuming they aren't robbed blind, dipped in lava, or otherwise left bereft of all of their earthly belongings.

Part of me has always thought about applying some kind of rule in the vein of 1 spell component pouch = x castings of spells. The problem is that not all spells require material spell components and tracking could become cumbersome.

Another idea that I had is that spell component pouches have an expiration date, and after a certain amount of time has passed that fresh components would need to be acquired.

2 - Gear wear and tear. This is similar thematically to the spell component pouch situation but with a twist. Adventurers are out in some of the most dangerous places in the world fighting hard and putting their gear through just as much stress as they are putting their bodies' through. How frequently should I as a game master make the players aware that their gear is not invincible?

A big portion of this question applies to weapons and armor which of course take the largest brunt of the characters' punishment. Do I make the player roll saves on all of his gear whenever they are victim of an area of effect saving throw? How about potential of a weapon breaking from repeated use? Should their armor take damage whenever the character takes enough damage to bypass the hardness of the armor?

The same questions could be applied to clothing, backpacks or other containers, as well as some other gear.

What do you guys think? Is there anything you do in your games to handle the types of situations I've mentioned above, or am I just putting too much thought into this little game of fantastical heroes, magic, and monsters?


Thanks again for the great feedback Scott! Sorry for not replying sooner but I had a crazy busy weekend.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I would complicate your build at least a little bit with a couple of levels in Fighter to get Thunder and Fang Early.

Nice. I haven't played much with multi-classing in PFRPG, so I honestly didn't think about doing this. It would definitely allow me the ability to pick up Thunder and Fang pretty quick.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
When you fight Thunder And Fang, you don't use your AC bonus to Shield when you Bash with your Klar.

Did you mean that I would get my AC bonus to shield when attacking with my klar. Per the description of Thunder and Fang I was pretty sure that I would still get my AC shield bonus. Thunder and Fang is a really nice feat as it seems to give a limited version of 3.5's Monkey-grip feat and also provides the bonus of Improved Shield Bash while using a Klar. I could be reading it incorrectly though. Regardless, I think I would still want to get Improved Shield Bash as it is a requirement for Shield Master later on.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
You are taking Shield Slam: maybe you should take Greater Bull Rush so you can give an Attack of Opportunity to every Ally.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to this, however, it does require me to find space for Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and then Greater Bull Rush. I could certainly see some feats that could go away to make room for these though so that's not a huge problem.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Since you are planning on taking Improved and Greater 2 Weapon Fighting, you seem to want a high Dex, and that says to me you would really benefit from an Attack of Opportunity feature in your build.

Since I was purchasing the Two Weapon Fighting feats with Ranger bonus feats I did not need to meet the high Dex requirements, but if I switched to the multi-classing build you mentioned earlier I might need to tweak that a bit. The character is currently running around with a Dex of 14, so Combat Reflexes or another AoO feat wouldn't be a horrible idea. Also the character is wearing medium armor as of the current build I have for them.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I notice you are taking Dodge and Mobility, but I don't really see what you are doing with it.

Yeah, these were some of the feats that I took that were handy feats to have although they weren't doing anything specific. Covering Shield, Saving Shield, and Missile Shield are also in this category. I guess the idea behind them was to allow the character to move between multiple opponents in an effort to tank for less defensive allies when they got into trouble while keeping my character as protected as possible from incoming AoO's that he would get from this kind of movement.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
You were saying you wanted to be a Tiefling.

Once again, this part was more about character background/role play elements more so than the benefits of being of a particular race. I took an alternative racial trait for Tieflings called "Light from the Darkness" which allows the character to cast corruption resistance once per day instead of darkness. It's a situational ability so it will not always as good as the standard spell-like ability however it lasts an hour/level when the characters casts it on themselves so it's something good to cast and then forget about until it becomes an issue.

I also agree that this whole build could have been made further simplified by playing a standard race like a dwarf, but sometimes I just like to try something that's a little different and see if I can have some fun with it.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Roleplaying reasons are good reasons to pick a less-than-optimal weapon. But I am too lawyerly a player not to offer an argument in favor of optimization.

Thanks Scott and that is never a problem. Also, I totally agree with you on the whole concept of militarized versions of common tools not actually being the same as the common tool. Your earth breaker theory is interesting to me for sure. I'm willing to walk down this road for a little bit to see where it takes me. The one thing I'm concerned about is how it will interfere with the build I had been working on. Obviously it would require me to trade out some feats in order to take WF: Earthbreaker, WF: Klar, and Thunder and Fang.

blashimov wrote:
See shield mastery though, which lets you use the shield ARMOR enhancement bonus as a WEAPON enhancement bonus.

Shield Master was definitely a part of my original build. For discussion I'll provide my original feat selection for my build. The character would be starting the game I'm playing in at level 6 but I've gone ahead and plotted out the feats through 20th level:

1st - Improved Shield Bash
2nd - Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger Combat Style)
3rd - Shield Focus
5th - Dodge
6th - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger Combat Style)
7th - Shield Slam
9th - Mobility
10th - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger Combat Style)
11th - Shield Master
13th - Bashing Finish
14th - Two Weapon Rend (Ranger Combat Style)
15th - Covering Shield
17th - Saving Shield
18th - Double Slice (Ranger Combat Style)
19th - Missile Shield

As you can see a lot of the feats are designed around the use of the shield. I'm curious as to how switching from the light shield to the klar would effect those feats or if it would make certain feats useless or unnecessary.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I guess you could say it's an exception to the rule, but I'd hesitate to say it breaks the rule.

You are, of course, very correct here Scott. In my head I meant exception to the rule, but wrote breaks the rule in error. I appreciate your response!

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If you want a +5 Shield, the way to go is to enchant it as a weapon. The Bashing Enchantment gives the Shield a +1 Attack and Damage, but I know of no provision for that enhancement to be increased, and it won't stack with Weapon Enhancements on the Shield. It will still give your Shield Bash a +2 damage for a Virtual Size Increase that will stack with your Enhancemnt Bonuses.

This is what I was looking for. I thought this was the case but wanted to refer with others to make sure I was on the right track! Thanks again!

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Nope. Shield Spikes are officially a Virtual Size Increase which do not stack with other Virtual Size Increases. The reason to put a Spike on a Bashing Shield is if you wanted it to do Piercing Damage, and since you are already doing Piercing Damage with you Pick, I advise against it. My instinct is to diversify, not double down. But I don't know what your character build will be like.

Ah ha! This makes a lot of sense! This one I wasn't really sure on and cruising around the internet I found some conflicting reports. I also agree with diversifying whenever possible.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
So, why a Heavy Pick? It seems unusual and far from optimal. What's your concept?

Character concept is a little on the simple side. The character is a Tiefling Ranger. Raised by his human parent and taught to leave the evil of his ancestry behind and embrace something better. Years later while the character appreciates where he comes from there's still far too much prejudice for him to make a life for himself in the sleepy hamlet he's from so he goes off on his own. He learns everything he can from anyone he can meet that is willing to talk to him, and eventually settles down in the wilderness becoming a ranger.

A large chunk of his time is spent exploring many of the various natural caverns where he lives, and so after a while he even leaves the forests behind in preference for learning how to survive below ground. The pick becomes a trusty tool and weapon that he is able to implement underground as it has a short haft which is good to use in close quarters and can be used in a pinch to pry an object out of a wall or possibly even dig through a collapsed tunnel or whatever might be needed.

In the end, I agree it is not an optimal weapon at all other than those very few instances where he scores a crit with the thing. However, it seemed to fit with his archetype which is the Deep Walker Ranger, and I found it interesting as it is a weapon that is not typically found among the people I play with on a regular basis.


Hello everyone.

I'm in the middle of constructing a two-weapon fighting combat style Ranger who employs a shield the majority of the time.

The character is 6th level, with a Strength of 16 (25 point build), and currently has the Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, Shield Focus, Dodge, and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

The character is currently armed with a Heavy Pick and a +1 bashing light wooden shield. Here's where my question begins.

From the reading of the Bashing shield special ability, "...The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash...". Does this break the normal rule of the enhancement bonus applied to a shield for armor class must be purchased separately from the enhancement bonus applied to a shield for attack and damage? I feel that it does as the description does not say that the weapon acts as a magical weapon. It specifically states "as a +1 weapon". Also the Bashing quality does not state that it provides all of your enhancement bonus to your shield bash so theoretically if I had a +5 Bashing shield but did not buy a separate enhancement bonus for attack and damage then the shield would still only act as a +1 weapon when used to bash. I could be off but that's why I'm here. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Also would the upgraded shield bash damage from the Bashing special ability and the increased shield bash damage from adding shield spikes stack with each other? Currently the shield does not have spikes, but I wonder if I should change that or not?


Thanks Dasrak. You've confirmed a lot of stuff that I already knew and gave me a few additional things to consider. I like the theme of the character put perhaps it would be better to RP the character's mission like you stated, and use either a different class or archetype that isn't so counterintuitive in regards to its' combat abilities.


Good afternoon gamers!

I am currently playing in a Rappan Athuk game. One character has already fallen to the super dungeon and I'm on my second. Seeing on how this place is a grinder for PC's I thought it would be a good idea to start building my next replacement character should the worst befall my current character.

With that being said I have a couple of questions about the character concept I'm currently building. The character is a Tiefling Cavalier in the Order of the Seal. This reference, this order is called to protect a specific object, a place, or a secret. In this case the place he has been ordered to protect is Rappan Athuk itself, or in actuality he has been ordered to find a team to go into Rappan Athuk, discover what source of evil is drawing all of the little baddies to it and destroy that source. Failing that he has been ordered to find a way to seal the dungeon so it can no longer be a threat to anyone. Basically these are some really impossible goals, but as he is a Tiefling and perhaps not as trusted as other members of his order it gives me a good reason to send another character to this death trap. Now that we have the backstory out of the way here are my questions:

1) Are there any rules that I can be pointed to that describe the dangers of using firearms underground? There may not be, but I just figured I would ask, I imagine a lot of this is going to be common sense type stuff (how sound travels underground, loud noises causing cave ins, and those sorts of things).

2) Can the "Gifted Firearm" ever be upgraded. I can't seem to find any reference to if it is possible or what would be required. I could just elect to pay the masterwork weapon price and then later the price for enchantment, but I'd like to be sure I was doing it within the rules. Alternatively I could have the Gunsmithing feat apply to the character the same way it applies to a Gunslinger which more or less seems to the first option, but it makes no mention of anyone being able to do that other than a pure Gunslinger. It may be possible that the "Gifted Firearm" can not be upgraded but I was just curious.

3) Are there any feats that allow you to take additional Gunslinger Deeds? I know that Amateur Gunslinger allows you to take one 1st level Deed, but I was unsure if there were any feats that allowed you to expand this feature for the Luring Cavalier/Musketeer. Once again the option may not be out there. The main reason I am asking on this one is to determine if Extra Grit would be worthwhile.

4) What feats would you recommend? Just the ranged combat feats (kind of a no-brainer), but are there any other feats that you would recommend that lie outside of the Point Blank Shot tree?

Disclaimer: I've read a few earlier threads that answered some of these questions but not all of them, and I do know that it seems a bit more cost effective to multiclass Cavalier and Gunslinger, but I would like to see what could be made without multi-classing if possible. Thanks in advance for your help!


Not sure if I will get an answer to this, but I have a bit of time before my party gets here so I'll give it a shot. I was looking up info on Alebrecht so that I could include him as a contact that the party could meet early on in the campaign via the dusk market if they chose to. In the reading I see that Alebrecht offers to pay the party the money he was going to give to Goren to get out of town. As far as I can tell the AP never states exactly how much money that is. Alebrecht has 88 platinum pieces listed in his stat block, but that is the only reference I can find in regards to money and this particular NPC. Maybe I've missed something, but I was wondering if anyone else ran into this particular problem and if so, how did you resolve it. Thanks in advance.


I like what you did with this Barbazul. I think I would also like to use Bluehood in my CoT campaign as another character in disguise, but I'm not sure which one yet.

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RonarsCorruption wrote:
I'd put a maximum around 7 billion. I can't assume we'd get more entries than there are people currently living on the planet.

Well now you're just getting technical ;)


In my groups the stat builds vary on the power level of the game. 15 and 20 point builds are common, however I do occasionally go back to the ole 4d6 drop the lowest, for some of my veteran players.

As far as XP goes my general method is to use Fast XP until the group hits 5th, then switch over to medium until 13th, and then go slow the rest of the way. This way it speeds up the squishy levels, and puts on the brakes at higher levels where the game seems to get overly complex, and out of hand.


Kryzbyn wrote:


"Rhode Island is neither a road, nor an island. Discuss."

It's like butter!

"something something...OMG! Barbara Streisand!....something"

goes back to lurking


Yeah I had thought about the sword cane as well, but I really don't want to spend a feat in order to use it. I can use Sleight of Hand to conceal light weapons, so hidden daggers are probably going to be the way to go. Besides every good stage magician worth his salt has done the whole knife throwing trick, so I imagine that would be something that he's fairly comfortable with. I imagine this character will be spending the majority of this time supporting his allies and baffling his foes so melee will be a distant third option when he has to do it.


Once again, I may be wrong, but the wording "If used as part of a full attack action" is probably assuming that you are attacking with a manufactured weapon in addition to making the bite attack which would automatically make it a secondary attack.

At least that's how it seems to me.


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To my understanding, if you have claws as natural attack then you have a few options.

Move + Attack (with one claw)

Sit still + Full Attack (with both claws at the same attack bonus)

Sit still + Full Attack (with manufactured weapon at normal attack bonus and then claw at -5 per a secondary attack)

However, I've been wrong before.


If there's anything else we can do to help just let us know!


-Crosswind

One of my fellow gamers here in the local group I play with suggested Silent Image over Summon Minor Monster at first level since it would only last one round. I laughed because you had already suggested switching Hypnotism for Silent Image. If I end up dropping one of the spells it will probably be the Summon, just because Hypnotism is Enchantment which is going to be the characters go to School.

-Azaelas

I thought the same thing about the Armored Coat (curses!). Oh well. Leather Armor or a Chain Shirt could easily go in until I can get some magical (and much less visible) armor.

I also figure as weaspons go, he'll probably be carrying a Cane (club) openly, but will have various other things hidden on his person via Sleight of Hand (a dagger hidden under a jacket or coat, brass knuckles concealed in a hidden pocket, or other things like that).


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I was thinking we just add it to the Ki entry. So technically they would get it as soon as they get their Ki pool. As written, once the player hits 4th level, they will be able to move half of their normal speed (so either 15 or 20 ft) and then flurry with 2 attacks hitting either one or two enemies with no AoO.

I will try to run a playtest of this concept asap. Unfortunately in the game I am currently running and the one I am about to start I don't believe I have anyone playing a monk, so either I'll have to toss in one as an NPC, or I'll just have to set aside some time to playtest it separately.


I agree with Master Arminas that if you are going to be spending a limited resource like Ki, that you should get a little more bang for your buck since there are precidents of other classes getting similar abilities, and in some cases being able to do them an umlimited number of times, such as the Two Weapon Warrior.

To this aim I suggest this:

Ki Barrage (Ex): By spending 2 points of Ki the monk is allowed to move and perform a flurry of blows simultaneously. The monk can move up to half of his normal movement when performing a Ki Barrage and may split the flurry of blows attacks between various enemies as long as the monk does not move more than half of their normal movement. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

This adaption provides mobility, the ability to attack multiple opponents, and freedom from AoO's. Is it too much?


What about a variation on the re-wording that Dabbler mentioned.

Spend 1 ki point to add 20 feet of movement

Spend 2 ki points to add 20 feet of movement as a swift action

This way the movement is still a short burst, and you get the benefit of a move+flurry option.


-Kryzbyn

I definitely like the archetype. I may even carry it over into my homegames now that you've pointed it out to me. A very cool way to blend weapons with the monk.

-Cheapy

That also seems to be another good way to handle the issue. I guess there's a lot of good ways to go about it. The trick is just picking which one (or more than one maybe) that someone would want for their game, or which one the Devs will pick up on when they get around to fixing the monk officially.


Kryzbyn wrote:

I added this to an archtype I made:

Zen Weaponmaster wrote:

Dance of Blows (Ex): At 7th level, while flurrying, a zen weaponmaster may take a 5' step between each attack, up to half his movement. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

At 14th level he may move up to half his movement and still use flurry of blows. This ability replaces wholeness of body.
I liked it, of course. If not a class feature, they could certainly spend ki on it as a ki power.

Very nice Kryzbyn! I'm glad to see that I'm not the first one to think of this as a great way to modify/improve the monk. Not to mention that yours looks a lot more official than mine!


Cheapy wrote:
You know what would be simpler? Making Flurry of Blows a standard action eventually.

While that too would also be quite simple, is this something that we think that the Devs would actually go with? I'm only a passing number cruncher compared to many of the other people on these boards, but it seems that flurrying as a standard action might be considered a bit much from the balance piece.

Keep in mind. I am not saying that Cheapy is wrong at all. I'm just putting the question/thought out there.


Dabbler wrote:
You know something? What would be easy is if the line that read "You can add twenty feet to your speed" instead said "You can move 20 feet as a swift action" when you spend a point of ki.

Good call, Dabbler! Quite easy indeed. Perhaps that's a better direction to go than to invent a whole new Ki ability. ponders


Thanks for putting your two coppers in here Da'ath. I also like that the proposed fix is on the simple side.

So you think that moving up to 2/3 normal movement would still be pretty easy and balanced?

Just comparing here. A monk with normal or slow speed who hasn't buffed their movement through feats or magic:

Mine
-Slow speed
--30ft/3rd, 40ft/6th, 50ft/9th, 60ft/12th, 70ft/15th, 80ft/18th; so the slow speed monk would be able to barrage and move between 15ft - 40ft depending on their level.
-Normal speed
--adding 10ft for normal speed would give the monk barrage and move between 20ft-45ft depending on level.

Your suggestion
-Slow speed
--2/3 speed instead of half speed gives the small monk barrage and move between 20ft - 50ft(after rounding down) depending on level.
-Medium speed
--barrage and move between 25ft(after rounding down) - 60ft depending on level.

In the end result we are looking at 10 extra feet of movement for the slow monk and 15 for the normal monk which probably isn't that big of a game killer at 18th level and up. I would probably be ok with that.


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I've been lurking around on the boards and reading all of the "monk-hate", and have been noticing that one of the things that people wish was different about the monk is the whole not being able to move and flurry business. This makes sense, and I know I've seen more than my share of "kick-flicks" that feature some martial artist clearing a room in a matter of seconds by zipping from one place to another swinging and kicking and whatnot until all of the bad guys are drooling on the floor.

Various people have also mentioned that this could be balanced by allowing the Ki Pool give your monk a Pounce like ability, which seems like a good way to balance it.

So here's what I've come up with, Ki Barrage: By spending __ amount of Ki from your Ki Pool you can move up to half of your move action and flurry as a standard action.

This doesn't seem overpowered to me being as by the time you get Ki Pool you are moving 40 ft which would get knocked down to 20 ft for the use of this ability, and at level 20 (assuming your character goes that far) your looking at 45 feet of movement with a flurry (also assuming you don't have anything that allows you to increase your speed further like the Fleet feat).

So what do you think? Sucks/Doesn't Sucks? How much Ki would make this mechanically sound for the class? Would it be possible to use this for a Dervish like hit-move-hit-move tactic in addition to a pounce tactic?


Ok here's what I came up with for ya, not sure if you'll like it or not but anyways:

Human Fighter 4/Ranger (Infiltrator/Skirmisher) 12

Str 14 (18 at 16th level) Dex 15 Con 16 (18 after racial bonus), Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8

BAB +16, Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +5, CMB +20, CMD 32 (at 16th level)

1. Ranger 1 - Favored Enemy (goblin +2), Track, Wild Empathy, (B) Exotic Weapon - Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus - Bastard Sword
2. Ranger 2 - (Combat Style) Two Weapon Fighting
3. Fighter 1 - (B) Double Slice, Quick Draw
4. Fighter 2 - (B) Power Attack, Bravery +1
5. Fighter 3 - Armor Training 1, Improved Initiative
6. Fighter 4 - (B) Weapon Specialization - Bastard Sword
7. Ranger 3 - Endurance, Adaptation (Goblin/Nat AC +2), Two Weapon Defense
8. Ranger 4 - Hunter's Bond (Companions)
9. Ranger 5 - Favored Enemy (giants +4), Furious Focus, Hunter's Trick
10. Ranger 6 - (Combat Style) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11. Ranger 7 - Woodland Stride, Improved Critical - Bastard Sword, Hunter's Trick
12. Ranger 8 - Swift Tracker, Adaptation (giant/lunge)
13. Ranger 9 - Evastion, Hunter's Trick, Weapon Focus - Handaxe
14. Ranger 10 - Favored Enemy (Undead +4), (Combat Style) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15. Ranger 11 - Quarry, Hunter's Trick, Weapon Specialization - Handaxe
16. Ranger 12 - Camouflage

I didn't pick out the Hunter's Tricks, and you could shuffle the feats around of course


Glamoured Armor would certainly work once you have achieved a high enough level to come into some magical gear, however, I am more concerned with what he's going to be running about with at levels 1-3. I think I'm probably going to have to deal with grabbing up some light armor, and there's already a precedent for using a cane as a club, but I don't know if I'm overthinking this too much and missing an element that could bring this to life.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

If you want I could give this a whirl and have a Lvl 1 NPC up sometime tomorrow night.

Note: the NPC is more for myself... I always use arrays for my NPCs...

Sure, Knock yourself out Azaelas! I'd be interested to see what you come up with!

Not really sure how this would all work out on an end game level but I have been thinking of saturating this character with the "Human" feats, and then a few extra that I think will just fit well with the character.

(In alphabetical order) Bestow Luck, Dauntless Destiny, Defiant Luck, Dilletante, Fast Learner, Fearless Curiosity, Greater Spell Focus (enchantment), Improvisation, Improved Improvisation, Inexplicable Luck, Spell Focus (enchantment).

Also, to Geekgumbo. I definitely appreciate your input on this. Unfortunately playing as an Elf/Dwarf/Gnome just doesn't fit with this particular concept, but I agree that the Breadth of Experience feat is quite nice! My main concern is how I am going to gear this guy up and still maintain the appearance of the travelling showman. This has got me vexed at the moment.


Do you have any idea how you want to split your Fighter and Ranger levels? Are you a trained soldier with some expert survival training, or are you a backwoods mercenary who spent some time with a small organized militia or guard.

Whatever your concept is I'm sure there's something that can be made to fit, although most people will probably say to take a small dip into Fighter and go the rest as Ranger.


-TheThousandfold

"Yes sir, the check is in the mail."

:)


Those are both good starting places and I'm sure there will be plenty of people who can come up with some good builds for either of those. Another route you may want to look at is a Barbarian.

From a mechanics point of view, Barbarians have lots of hitpoints and can take lots of hits before they go down. The Rage ability enhances that as well as their strength so that can dish out a lot of damage as well.

From a role playing standpoint, I'm sure it would be all sorts of fun to play a berserker from the north. Perhaps he's caused too much trouble for even his own kin, so now he travels from town to town, wherever he can find food and lodging for the night, selling his swordarm to whomever is brave or foolish enough to hire him.

Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 12

If you're going for a human toss the +2 bonus to either Strength or Constitution (personally I would go Con), or you could even go with a Dwarf which would go well with the Ulfen region.

Lock your feats into something fun like Power Attack (and Cleave if you are a Human and get the extra feat), or something similar so you can start diving into the battle and tearing up whatever your GM throws at you. Of course you could always go the Two Weapon route as well in which case I would Recommend Two Weapon Fighting and Double Slice with an Axe and a sword (or a smaller axe, or a hammer, whatever fits your flavor).

Well that's what I came up with anyway.


bump-fu


Aren't there some traits that grant a Will bonus based off of having intense faith in something.

Now this isn't really a huge plus since you'll already have a high Will save, however, it occurred to me that the character's loved one dying could be where they've found this faith/willpower. It gives your character a "I've let this happen once, but I'll never let it happen again" kind of attitude which could be cool to roleplay at the table.


The Amazing Waylon, Master of the Mystic Arts
Human, 1st level Bard (Magician/Soundstriker)
Abilities:
• Str 10 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 13 (+2 racial bonus) = 15
(I used the 15 point build)
Combat:
• BAB +0, CMB +0, CMD 12, Fort +0, Ref +4, Will +3
• AC 12 (+2 Dex), Touch 12, Flat Footed 10
(as this build does not yet take into account gear, I have left it pretty bare)
Racial Traits:
• +2 racial bonus to one ability score, Medium size, Speed – 30 feet, Bonus feat at 1st level, 1 additional skill rank per level
Class Traits:
• Bardic Knowledge, Cantrips, Distraction, Dweomercraft, Fascinate, Improved Counterspell, Magical Talent
Feats:
• Fast Learner (two favored class abilities instead of one)
o +1 skill point per level
o Add one spell known from the Bard spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the Bard can cast.
• Spell Focus (enchantment)
Skills:
• Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +6, Knowledge (arcane) +7, Perception +5, Perform (act) +6, Profession (entertainer) +5, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +7
Traits:
• (not really sure, obviously anything that makes him better at tricking people would be a plus, beyond that I’m not really sure where I want to go with this one, beyond that anything that would fit in with the style of the overly well dressed entertainer type)

Spells:
• Concentration +3
• 0 level spells (unlimited, DC 12)
o Detect Magic, Mending, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, and Read Magic
• 1st level spells (2/day, DC 13)
o Hypnotism (DC 12/14/16 depending on the situation) and Summon Minor Monster
Gear:
• (Again, kinda lost as the concept I’m working with is based off of a guy who never used weapons or armor. I’m sure I’ll have to suck it up and get some armor for adventuring purposes. Weapons would most likely be small things that are easy to conceal on his person via Sleight of Hand. I imagine various alchemical items would be great to have on hand for circumventing certain issues, although those are pretty expensive for a first level character to come by. Maybe I should go for the Rich Parents Trait?)
*****Well that’s what I have so far. What do you think?


Thomas, the Tiefling Hero! wrote:
This is a PFS character made with Core, APG, UC, ARG, Blood of Fiends, a convention boon, and the ISWG. His pre-racial stats are 14/14/13/13/12/12. How does he fit into the ideas of powergaming versus roleplaying discussed in this thread?

Off hand I find nothing wrong with the character. The backstory is nice and it's clear that you put a little thought behind your character. I don't see anything powergamer-y about the character although other than you telling us what books were used and his ability scores we don't have that much to go on.

If you are looking for a deeper breakdown of powergaming versus roleplaying then it might be good to see what you picked from the different books.

Personally, if one of my players came to me with a similar character and background to this, I'd probably let them play it because even if it was overly optimized you are already showing that you lean towards serious role playing.


Hah! I was just thinking this over yesterday, and knew that a Cape of the Mountebank was a must have for this character! Good call, VoodooHoodoo!

And you're definitely right! We can't forget the theme song! I was figuring on Hypnotism as one of his low level spells, and picking up things like Confusion and various Illusions to warp the minds of the bad guys as he progresses.


When building characters for games I wish to play in I've always adopted the "build to the concept" model, and I heavily suggest the same when people make characters for games that I run in.

Sometimes this ends up with optimized characters and sometimes it doesn't. Usually this involves diving into this book or that book to find the rules/archetypes/feats/spells that would best adapt to the concept being played.

Are there powergamers out there? Of course. Is everyone who builds a diversified or versatile character a power gamer? Certainly not.

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