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joeyfixit's page

807 posts. Alias of Peter Heleva.


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Piccolo wrote:

Well, if the books stay mostly on the shelves before impact, that would magnify the damage, which was induced by hundreds of pounds of weight.

I'd put it in Fireball country, 5-10d6. No reflex save for half, it's either all or nothing reflex save. That's some serious bleep!

Seems way overpowered for pushing over a bookshelf. I'm thinking that the base is a bit bigger than the top, making for a little room at the base that a swift adventurer could jump for in a pinch.

... course, that'd make it tougher to knock over.


lemeres wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
Deadmoon wrote:

The taller the shelf, the easier it is to tip.

The more it is loaded toward the top, the easier it is to tip.
The narrower the base, the easier it is to tip.

If the base is unsecured or even a bit loose, it may be possible to topple even a very large and sturdy shelf by rocking it back and forth, creating a harmonic effect similar to the way wind destroyed the Tacoma Narrows Bridge

And the closer to the top, the easier to topple. I'll give a +5 circumstantial if a character manages to push/slam the top half of a shelf, rather than the base.
That makes me want to take a rogue option through an acrobatics check in order to climb my way up to rather close bookshelves by proping myself between them so that I could just kick one shelf over at the top. Would real bookshelves be that close? Obviously not...but fantasy worlds are not well known for their safety codes.

I was thinking more of an enlarged creature taking a running jump, or somehow throwing something really heavy at the top. Like a big hammer.


Deadmoon wrote:

The taller the shelf, the easier it is to tip.

The more it is loaded toward the top, the easier it is to tip.
The narrower the base, the easier it is to tip.

If the base is unsecured or even a bit loose, it may be possible to topple even a very large and sturdy shelf by rocking it back and forth, creating a harmonic effect similar to the way wind destroyed the Tacoma Narrows Bridge

And the closer to the top, the easier to topple. I'll give a +5 circumstantial if a character manages to push/slam the top half of a shelf, rather than the base.


Piccolo wrote:
Most library bookshelves are dual sided, so they tend to be wider, at least 2-3ft. Being made of oak, and heavy, you are going to have a serious danger if they fall.

Good point! What do you think should be the damage from one falling on a PC?

First of all there should be a Reflex save to avoid the worst of the damage. 12 sounds appropriate; the first shelf will take a moment to start falling and the subsequent ones will have the warning of the prior shelves.

The party will be 4th level when they hit this encounter; I think 4d6 bludgeoning damage and the pinned condition (35 Strength or 20 Escape Artist to get out of it). Reflex for half and to avoid the pinned condition, but if character is not adjacent to an open (non-shelf) square at time of impact, character will be knocked prone.

As cool as it would be for the PC's to knock over a shelf to flush out the Mites they'll be up against, I don't think any of them will try. Nobody in the party has a strength score over 12 at the moment, I'm pretty sure (though the cleric has two skeleton companions and access to Summon Monster). It will, however, be fun to try and line the PC's up and topple some dominoes with the Spriggan they'll be up against.

EDIT: Actually there is a summoner with a 4-legged beastie and Enlarge Person. It's quite likely the beastie will try and charge a bookshelf before the night is through.


Piccolo wrote:

That really depends on how huge the bookshelves are. Remember, if you have ever had to move your domicile, you know that books are incredibly heavy when bunched up. How wide are the bookshelves?

I would not think a 20 Strength could pull it off. We are talking in the realm of 30 or more.

On the map, I have their width taking up about a quarter of a square. Taking into account that no spatial relationships are really exact on a map, they're a little more than two feet wide, I'd say. 30 seems a little high, since it's not lifting or really pushing that's required, it's tipping them over. I'll probably put it at about 25, with a +3 momentum bonus on a charge.


Built a dungeon around a library. It's got twenty or so bookshelves. The bookshelves are twenty feet long. I put them on the border between spaces, assuming they're about three or so feet thick, sort of straddling between five foot spaces. Leaves a nice non-difficult aisle for five foot squares. Twenty feet long, between 8-10 feet high, and loaded with books and scrolls. This is an old emperor's hideout, so let's say the wood is solid oak or something thereabout (but it's been sitting around for 200 years).

What do you think the DC ought to be to knock one over?


Thanks, folks. Except for some derailment, this was very helpful. I feel a lot more justified upholding my interpretation of the rules (non-synthetic Eidolons are healed by positive energy).


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I take that to mean that the Eidolon doesn't heal on its own. As in, will not regain HP from a good night's sleep, and by extension will not regain extra HP from a healer's kit/heal check.

But magical healing should work, right? A cleric's channel or CLW should work as normal on an Eidolon. It's the synthetic Eidolons that suffer from temporary Hit Pointitis, far as I knew.

I bring it here because there's some debate about this at actual tables. And if I'm wrong I want to know.


Crosswind wrote:


If you put it in strength, you will not be able to carry anything. In int, you will have 1 skill point.

And?

Discarding archetypes, there are exactly three four classes that utilize Intelligence as a power stat. May I recommend not picking one of those?

I would highly recommend putting that dump into Intelligence because it's the least penalizing mechanically and probably the most fun to roleplay.

Barbarian?


To my mind, forbid action and murderous command are debuffs. Also, they offer saving throws. My impression of control spells (as taught by Treantmonk) is that the good ones don't offer a save (especially a will save).

For this list I tried to eliminate most straight up buffs, debuffs, heals, and (most) divinations. I also left out spells that have a casting time longer than about two rounds, thinking they aren't much good to be cast on a battlefield. Some debuffs got through by their lack of save or by virtue of multiple uses and/or saving throws. Some utility spells get through by virtue of multi-uses, like locate object.

So, I'd say

Spark

Darkness
Hide from Undead (against zombies and mindless undead)
Obscuring Mist (especially against ranged attackers)
Summon _____ (pretty much all of them)

Consecrate/Desecrate (Technically a debuff, but it offers no save)
Status (Great for keeping track of buddies in a dark dungeon or under an obscuring mist)
Trail of the Rose
Chain of Perdition (practically a Grasping Hand)
Daylight
Deeper Darkness
Invisibility Purge (technically another debuff, but again, no save)
Locate Object
Prayer (a buff and debuff at the same time, with no save)
Stone Shape
Water Walk
Wind Wall

Air Walk
Control Water
Giant Vermin
Tongues

Fickle Winds
Ghoul Army
Holy Ice
Insect Plague
Plane Shift
Planar Ally series
Snake Staff
Wall of Stone

Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Wind Walk
Word of Recall

Ethereal Jaunt
Impart Mind
Lunar Veil
Refuge
Repulsion (Will negates, but if this isn't battlefield control, I don't know what is)

Antimagic Field
Dimensional Lock
Earthquake
Rift of Ruin
Spellscar

Energy Drain (a debuff, but save isn't allowed for 24 hours)
Etherealness
Gate
Interplanetary Teleport
Miracle
Polar Midnight
Winds of Vengeance


D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright I recently joined a new Pathfinder game.

I am coming in a bit late.
All the players are currently level 3.
There is a Monk, a Paladin and a Wizard.
None of them have archetypes or specialization.
I was going to come in as a witch...but I just found out that the GM wants only core class and race (archetypes however are allowed.)
Now I have no idea what to play....
I need inspiration/advice...what would you play if you where in my situation?
Ability are rolled out (god save our souls)

Feats and other stuff can be from any of the main five books...Core, Adv. Player, Ult Magic, Ult Combat and Equipment Guide.

No Guns allowed.

P.S. Also should posted this in General Discussion instead?

What kind of Monk?

What kind of Wizard?

What kind of Paladin?

Potentially, all three of these things could be ranged damage. What I see lacking is an divine spellcasting and healing. So I'd go think about going cleric.

If the Paladin is going to be all about healing, then maybe a rogue?


Jadeite wrote:

Compared to alchemists, bards and inquisitors, the magus seems rather weak. He has a medium BAB and no good way to increase it. There's an arcana that let's him add his intelligence bonus but that one uses a swift action and is also rather costly. He can also increase his weapons enhancement bonus, but he can't raise it over +5.

With the limitation of haste, zorroing Arcane Marks doesn't seem that good, either. Shocking Grasp seems impressive till you meet an archer or charger. Blades Dash + Spell Combat is nice, but he's still limited to a one-handed weapon, so true pounce is probably better.

I have to say, I'm unimpressed. So, what is great about the magus?

No way to increase BAB? What about True Strike, Bull's Strength, magic weapon built into the class (bladebound).

Or Haste.

They can deliver touch spells through melee attacks. They cast spells in the same round as a full attack, and they don't even have to cough up an attack to do it.

Not sure what your problem with a +5 cap on enhanced weapons. Every other class suffers the same penalty.

Can a Magus outdamage a fighter? At level one, maybe. At higher levels? Not unless the fighter is built wrong. Nothing's stopping you from playing a fighter.

To answer your question, a Magus is (arguably) about as close as PF comes to a Jedi.


Whoops, forgot power attack. So actually it should look more like:

1 Deadly Aim
2 Superstitious
3 Point Blank Shot
4 Witch Hunter
5 Rapid Shot
6 Auspicious Mark
7 Power Attack
8 Increased Damage Reduction
9 Manyshot
10 Eater of Magic

Too many Rage Powers, not enough levels...


rangerjeff wrote:

Wait, hold on. You played a 1st level character in a 4-5 tier event (which shouldn't happen, you should feel lucky to be alive.) Don't get all excited about using up your rage in this situation, you had what, 6-7 rounds? And if you were a level 1 in this game, I'm guessing the others weren't all levels 4 and 5, there were probably a couple of 2's and 3's, and you all decided to play up. That can be asking for a TPK depending on the scenario. And will certainly extend combats beyond the usual 2-4 rounds expected. Experienced players will almost never allow a level 1 to play in a tier 4-5, make the player use a level 4 pregen instead.

You get more rage every level. At 4th level, you'd have another 6 rounds, and you'd need them less since you're now 4th level in a 4-5 tier scenario. Think as a 4th level character with 12-13 rounds of rage in the same scenario you'd still have needed Extra Rage? Would you have even needed to rage at all for half the encounters? And what are you giving up for Extra Rage?

Maybe you're right. I'm thinking of focusing more on the ranged now anyway. Toying with:

1 Deadly Aim
2 Superstitious
3 Point Blank Shot
4 Witch Hunter
5 Rapid Shot
6 No Escape
7 Combat Reflexes (or Stabbing Shot)
8 Unexpected Strike
9 Manyshot

Basically this focuses on ranged for the first five levels; melee would seem to have less of a feat/power tax. Putting Controlled Anger's bonus into Dex will help keep me alive while the Hit Points catch up.

Manyshot will have to wait until level 9, since I don't have 17 Dex to start with and can't justify pushing it there at level 4 when Strength is 15.

Luckily, my first session netted me a little over 1000gp, so I can afford a masterwork composite longbow +2, MW Greatsword, and MW Leather Armor, all ready for enhancement when I can afford it.

Roused Anger sounds pretty good as a one-man army, but my thinking now is that it will be a rare instance when a Society group actually needs a switch hitter to fill both roles in the same encounter; most of the time either ranged or melee will be sufficiently covered and I can fill whatever gap is needed.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

What about

(4) Realize that you might be in over your head, leave the castle to heal up completely, and come back at the problem with a new approach?


...


Pendagast wrote:

AS an elf you can get extra fast move which is kinda cool. Plenty fo get up an go.

If it were me, I'd go urban ranger, instead of savage elf, you get the same kind of rage choice where you can pump dex.

You dont have to blow a ton of feats to shoot a bow, and I wouldnt especially as a switch hitter.

IF you look into Drow (if the race is allowed) you dont need to go noble drow, just regular ARG Drow, they get dark lands stalker and some other alternate abilites that are really kinda cool for a mobile switch hitter, giving you some feats for free to dance around rough terrain.

Could be kinda fun if you think about it...a dark lands stalker with surface infiltrator. Cook up a story how he was being raised as a surface agent for the Drow, but the surface elves wiped out his secret encampment when he was really young, as such he knows nothing of and has not connection to the darklands, and knows nothing of drow society. Maybe he was out fishing when the strike happened, came back to camp found them all wiped out. Doesnt even know who did it.

Boom you have a CN drow barbarian, adapted to surface life who raised himself from a young age and has some repressed anger issues. complete with some really cool alternate racial traits.

IF he was an urban barbarian, he migrated to a city like Absalom or Korvosa etc, where he eeked out a living amoungst the cities lowest denizens, where he could hide his appearance and go unnoticed easily.
He could be simply an Elf with a particularly startling appearance, as a surface dweller without knowledge of his homeland or any of the drow magical powers, it would be hard to place the albino elf with pink eyes, and even he doesnt know exactly what he is.

I assume you mean urban barbarian. You know I already picked that, right?


Went with Nicos' list, but I reversed Deadly Aim and Power Attack. And guess what? I was being a complete rage miser and still ran out before we even got to the end of the adventure (this was a 4-5 mod, however). He only got dropped once, which probably wouldn't have happened with more rage.

Def going to rework it with Extra Rage as the 1st level feat, and Roused Anger as the first RP, and see what needs fixin' before level 3.


You really don't think I need Extra Rage? In that case I might go with Nicos' list. I think you're both right; there's really no switch hitting without rapid and many.

You're probably right about Cleave; the idea was to get something to put a little icing on the Urban Barbarian's crowd control. I had thought Combat Reflexes would go well with both the high dex and No Escape. Of course, that's a feat and a rage power devoted to melee.

Vital Strike I liked because it can apply to either melee or ranged. So can Witch Hunter and so can Spell Sunder.


Basically the idea is to pump up the Dex with Focused anger for the initial round, and then end rage as a free action and switch to regular rage for melee via Roused Anger. Alternatively, if the combat begins in melee, the reverse can be done after the adjacent threat is dealt with and additional opponents are beyond melee range (flying, for example).

The third level feat will probably be Deadly Aim, unless I'm constantly finding myself wanting/needing to take more opportunity attacks.

I'm also tempted to squeeze Combat Reflexes and Cleave in there somewhere, since the urban barbarian gets a bonus to attacks against multiple adjacent enemies. If I went this way as of third level, I'd consider dumping Superstition for No Escape.


This is for Society Play.

Probably the first advice people will give me is that I shouldn't build a barbarian out of an elf. Elf barbarian is kind of the challenge I'm giving myself.

Zero the Elf:

Zero
Male Elf Barbarian (Urban) 1

Str 15
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 7

AC 15, Touch 13, FF 12

Fort 4
Ref 3
Will 2

Extra Rage (12/day)
Traits: Freed Slave (Will +1)
Warrior of Old (Init +2)

Savage Elf Alt Racial Traits

150 gp

Longbow
Greatsword
Arrows
Dagger
Leather Armor
Backpack
Rope

This is for Society Play.

Basically the feat/Rage Power tree I have planned out is:

1 Extra Rage
2 Roused Anger
3 Deadly Aim (or Combat Reflexes)
4 Superstitious
5 Witch Hunter (Extra Rage Power)
6 Vital Strike
7 Spell Sunder
8 Clear Mind

I considered a two level dip into Ranger to get rapid shot for free, but I'm afraid of nerfing the Barb's power. Also, I'll need the extra HP with a racial Con penalty.


MrSin wrote:
What is there to what? The answer is no, bombs are a type of splash weapon, alchemist add their int to damage with all splash weapons(Alchemist fire/acid and the like. Also bombs!)

huh


Wind Chime wrote:
Synthesist summoner all the way why have lousy stats when you can replace them with good stats instead, switch out the 14 into charisma so you will have full spell-casting by the later levels and your set.

+1.

Put the 14 into Charisma and the 12 into Constitution. Play a Gnome, so that those become 16/14.

If you want to get really crazy, take a level dip into Paladin (not to start with, though). Two levels will boost your saving throws forever, give you weapon proficiencies (if you want to play something with arms that uses weapons, which is recommended if you want to be able to cast spells), and a few good skills, like diplomacy. And the ability to heal yourself as a swift action.

It shouldn't be too complicated.


Belafon wrote:
If you want the reason behind the "no:" acid flasks and alchemist fire are not "bombs" they are "splash weapons." A bomb is a specific weapon (bomb is to splash weapon as rapier is to martial weapon). However you do get to add your intelligence modifier to damage with all splash weapons.

What?


Weables wrote:

Lawful has nothing to do with following the law. Following an internal personal code in a strict manner, as well as an orderly method of doing things is what makes one lawful.

I would define lawful as adhering to codes that exist beyond oneself. I am certain that many a chaotic neutral, neutral evil, chaotic evil character behaves in a way that adheres to a strict moral and/or behavioral standard that they set for themselves. Like "always look out for numero uno" or "it is my duty to eat the rude."


And the two gunslingers are, of course, gunless, which certainly falls under the purview of "lacking basic equipment to use class abilities".

Of course, part of the purpose of the sniper is to provide said gunslingers with firearms, paper cartridges, and a wondrous item. So I do want him to go down, but not too easy. I would like the encounter to take at least an hour, which is why I spent so much time on the environment. I suppose this is why I might be tempted to keep the ghost bard's grease spell in reserve, since she can use it on the enemy musket when he's got a PC in his crosshairs.

I suppose I should point out that I'm fairly new to GMing, at least at Pathfinder, and it's hard to know where to draw the line when planning out an encounter.


The Fox wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
The Fox wrote:

If you had a normal party with expected equipment, then this encounter would fall under "average" to "challenging" (because of environmental effects). This is assuming they have about 50% of their resources left.

As is, however, your party will likely find even CR 1 encounters to be challenging. They are severely lacking equipment. 2nd level and they lack the basic equipment to use their class abilities.

That said, I might suggest against having the ghost interfere. It could just frustrate the players even more, leading to feelings of "why am I even playing?" Consider having the sniper flee after the kill, and let the PCs face him later when they are better equipped. Tracking him down can be an entire story arc.

Interesting, but a couple of points:

The sniper killed the gnome because she has something important (plot hook).

The party is fairly well equipped and armored. When they were thrown in jail, it was with most of their gear, sans obvious weapons. Despite not having their firearms, the cleric has a switchscythe that she's letting the bloody skeleton use, the gun tank has a breastplate and longsword, and the fetchling was in the process of pulling a branch off a tree to turn it into a club when the gunshot happened. They tore through a giant spider and a crocodile in the sewers like they were paper.

Do you think a ghost bard giving you a +1 to your attack and damage rolls translates into "why am I even playing?"

Still, tracking down the sniper would actually make for an interesting arc. Thank you for the suggestion.

Sorry. My post sounded bad. I worded it poorly. Of course adding in a bardic performance isn't going to feel like too much deus ex machina. I meant that you should avoid having the ghost interfere too much.

You certainly I know better than I do what equipment your characters have. I was basing my assumptions on what you posted.

No apology needed. I posted so that I could be challenged.


The Fox wrote:

If you had a normal party with expected equipment, then this encounter would fall under "average" to "challenging" (because of environmental effects). This is assuming they have about 50% of their resources left.

As is, however, your party will likely find even CR 1 encounters to be challenging. They are severely lacking equipment. 2nd level and they lack the basic equipment to use their class abilities.

That said, I might suggest against having the ghost interfere. It could just frustrate the players even more, leading to feelings of "why am I even playing?" Consider having the sniper flee after the kill, and let the PCs face him later when they are better equipped. Tracking him down can be an entire story arc.

Interesting, but a couple of points:

The sniper killed the gnome because she has something important (plot hook).

The party is fairly well equipped and armored. When they were thrown in jail, it was with most of their gear, sans obvious weapons. Despite not having their firearms, the cleric has a switchscythe that she's letting the bloody skeleton use, the gun tank has a breastplate and longsword, and the fetchling was in the process of pulling a branch off a tree to turn it into a club when the gunshot happened. They tore through a giant spider and a crocodile in the sewers like they were paper.

Do you think a ghost bard giving you a +1 to your attack and damage rolls translates into "why am I even playing?"

Still, tracking down the sniper would actually make for an interesting arc. Thank you for the suggestion.


Yeah, but I'm already stretching things by auto-critting a "PC" and declaring that her head is blown off with no chance of saving her.

How about the encounter? OP? UP?


I'm running a homebrew campaign, 15 point buy. PC's are at level 2. I ended the last session on a cliffhanger; dropped a PC with a sneak attack from a musket-wielding sniper gunslinger/rogue. Why did I do this? Because said player just played her last session. It was always my plan to kill her at the end of the third session, which she knew from the start. Really PC is kind of an NPC, except that she was played by a live player for three sessions.

The party just got through a pretty brief dungeon crawl after having escaped from prison

PC's:

Player characters:

Gnome Sorcerer: focuses on illusion spells. With Spell Focus, he's got the illusion DCs up to 15, which isn't too bad for a second level character. Newb player; despite my advice he's got a 10 Dex and an 11 AC.

Fetchling Ninja: Probably the strongest player of the group, mechanically. Picked Ray of Frost magical talent as a SLA so that he can make a ranged sneak attack vs. touch AC once per day. Unfortunately he doesn't have a proper weapon at the moment.

Human Undead Lord Cleric: Has an undead skeleton companion, wrapped up like the invisible man. I think she's nearly out of spells, but she has a few negative channels yet. The undead companion has a switchscythe.

Human Buccaneer: Has alchohol, but no firearm.

Human Gun Tank: In the dungeon crawl, I provided him with a breastplate and longsword.

The PC's traveled through a sewer to escape from prison. At the exit tunnel into a swamp, the gnome bard was shot in the head and killed. Next session will begin with initiative. As far as I know, the party doesn't have HP damage.

Here's what they're up against:

The Sniper:

Ruggles the Rat

Ratfolk Sniper

Rogue 2 (fav class)
Gunslinger 1

Beneficial bandolier 1000
MW Musket 1800
Paper Cartridge x10 120

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 7

RT: Camouflage
Rapid Reload
Medium Firearms Feat
Alternate Racial Traits: Cornered Fury, Skulk

HP:30

BAB 2

Base Fort 2=4
Base Reflex 5=8
Base Will 0= 2

AC 14 (18 prone vs. ranged), Touch 14

Stealth (camouflaged) 19
Percep 8

The "Medium firearms feat" is a custom feat I offered the PC's for this campaign. Basically it's "Goblin Gunslinger", with the prereqs of Small size, BAB 1, and Grit class feature.

In addition to the MW musket, the sniper has a plain pistol in place of the battered one that a gunslinger gets for free, the idea being that both the gunslingers will get a weapon from defeating him.

So I'm a bit worried about dropping another PC with this guy. I spent yesterday creating a pretty big swamp battlefield for the encounter, with various areas of tall grass that can act as improved cover/concealment. It's already established that this takes place at night during the full moon, with thick cloud cover intermittently passing overhead. So in other words, the light will alternate between low light (fetchling and gnome) and dark (fetchling, undead companion, sniper). The gnome is also used to spamming dancing lights.

My thinking is that if the party gets into serious trouble, the gnome bard who was killed to kick off the encounter can help them out... as a ghost.

Ghost template - there's nothing in the rules about the amount of time it takes for a living creature can become a ghost. As this was a particularly violent and sudden death, I think it's pretty fitting that killing this sniper could count as her "unfinished business".

Can a ghost bard sing to give the PC's a bardic performance bonus?

Can a ghost arcane caster cast spells with physical effects on the living? (like grease)


How would you stat up the elements of the first two evil dead films?

So, we're talking:

Invisible, incorporeal malevolent entities.

Who possess the living and turn them into demons/ undead types. That are, you know, Evil.

The potential for getting better after said possession.

Living vines that grapple and strangle people (and, optionally, are quite rude to female people)

Zombies that talk and mock the living (the PC's). Which, optionally, can transform their bodies and sometimes fly.

A crawling hand. (okay, that one's a freebie).

Portals in time/space?


Broken Zenith wrote:

I actually think the Witch is a weaker option than the Sorcerer or Alchemist. The witch's main gig, hexes, are single target by and large. You need more crowd control, and area damage. Do you really need to debuff somebody if he is going to be surrounded on four sides by melee dudes? I'd be more worried about a horde of zombies, or swarms of bugs, or an angry mob.

Also, I wouldn't worry about being int based - your party basically has all the skills covered, and not an insubstantial amount of them.

Unless you rethink your approach. Flight, healing, ward, fortune, water lung are not debuffs.

Area damage? You got burning hands at level one. And, um....

Okay, so the witch doesn't rock at area damage. But how much are the four melee dudes going to mind it if the thing they're surrounding is dealing with debuffs?

At level one, battlefield control seems more like the druid's gig. He's at least got entangle. The witch will eventually have access to things like stinking cloud and black tentacles.


asthyril wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I get CLW for free by being an oracle. My 1st level spells chosen were Bless, Protection from Evil, and I don't remember the 3rd. And yes, I was looking at being mainly a healer with some buff spells and OOC utility. I have a light crossbow if I don't have a spell to cast and need something to do.
bless and prot from evil are best left for wands, since they don't get better as you go up in level. i would get burning disarm and shield of faith.

I only see three spells known at first level. Personally, I think the best use of Protection from E is to give a buddy a mulligan on a failed will save (not all of them, but plenty). Which, by the way, stays relevant at higher levels. You're not going to afford a wand at first level and you can retrain PfE at fourth level.


The Chort wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
Spell selection would seem to be an important part of the build. What do you want to do with this character? Just heal?

Well, of all the classes, an Oracle of Life can get a way with "Just heal." They're nova healers. xD

Eventually, they can heal as a standard action, (channel, cure spell) a move action, (quick channel) a swift action, (combat healer) a few as free actions (life bond, energy body after you start it up)

So "just heal" is actually a decent contribution to the party, even in combat. Add in bless and some other support spells and it should go okay.

However, I'll admit I really liked the Oracle of Life in our group with the Blackened curse. Sometimes our level 7 Oracle of Life launching off 2 rays off a scorching ray is just what the party needs to win.

In that case I suggest cure light and protection from evil.


Spell selection would seem to be an important part of the build. What do you want to do with this character? Just heal?


Xaratherus wrote:

See Invisible, Glitterdust, and True Seeing (I believe) all negate all aspects of Invisibility and Greater Invisibility - including the 50% miss chance.

Personally, I don't see it as overpowered. It's numerous rounds of concentration to identify the exact square, still leaves a 50% miss chance, and can be overcome simply by moving (stealthily) to another square out of the cone.

More than that, before I would let a caster use Detect Magic in this fashion he'd need to have a reason to do so - which would be a high-DC Perception check.

I don't see anything in Glitterdust to indicate that it negates the 50% miss chance. I do, however, see a -40 penalty to stealth.


Shifty wrote:

If the player had some plot related items, then the GM would have known what they were and simply reassignmed them, or are these plot related items somehow ones the GM doesn't know about and has to check?

I call shennanigans.

This isn't a 'player/gm' conversation, the game has nothing to do with it and is a trivial point, this is the breakdown of an interpersonal relationship and the 'GM' person wanting a reason to continue some form of social interaction, the way some people do when they break up.

+1.

I am VERY suspicious of the paradoxical situation in which the GM

a) provided items that the campaign can't continue without, and

b) can't remember what those items are, and must hound a former player to get access to the magical character sheet containing said items.

If both a and b are true, I think the game needs to start over with a new GM. But that seems like a real stretch, and I suspect that either GM can't take no for an answer or is simply engaging in some RL griefing, or some combination of both.

Seems to me that the player probably stopped coming to games because he (she?) had such a lousy GM. As a GM, I can't imagine stalking such a player to a Paizo forum and harassing him (or her) for leaving my game.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:

Beyond the normal behavioral stuff, there's an additional lesson to be learned here for GMs.

After every level up get a copy of the character sheets.

I find players to be notoriously unreliable at keeping track of their sheets and remembering to bring them to a game. If I'm running the game and hosting, I ask for the sheets to be handed in at the end of every session.

Works the other way, too. If I'm playing a regular home game at the GM's house, I prefer to turn my sheet in to said GM at the end of the game. One less thing to worry about bringing.

I should add that I typically run a character's stats by Paizo messageboards before I play it, so it's pretty easy for me to work on a character between sessions without having the sheet in front of me.


Why is $4.78 the cheapest shipping option available on Paizo? I mean, it's a magazine. That's half the price of the thing to begin with.

Gygaxmagazine.com will ship it to me for $1.05.


The rules seem awfully vague about what actually goes into using the bluff skill to feint. There's nothing explicitly stating that it only works for melee, which leads me to believe that feinting works for ranged attacks.

But how would this work in practice? Does the archer act like he's going to shoot his intended target, forcing him to flinch? And how would that make said target easier to hit?

Would it work on targets that can't actually see their attacker? Take a sniper. Can he use feint to, say, chuck a rock and distract his target?

Is it a moot point if the target can't actually see the attacker? Meaning, if the attacker is successfully using stealth, does the target lose his/her Dex bonus to stealth anyway, despite being past the first round of combat? (can't find the rule that addresses this)


Mystically Inclined wrote:

Yeah, you need to sit down and talk with people.

First, all of the players need to know that in your world, a person can raise undead and not be evil if it's done for noble purposes. They are likely going off of the default assumption that they have an evil party member in the group, when (at least for the undead lord) this isn't true.

Second, the group needs to be firmly told that PvP is simply not acceptable. If they have a big enough problem with something that their solution would be to kill another character, they need to bring it to you so you can mediate things out peacefully.

Third, Son of A needs to switch some things around with his character. You've already determined that you're uncomfortable with evil characters in a good party, or at least that it's a borderline concept. An adult with role playing experience and a non-evil concept is pushing the edges. A child playing a straight evil oracle? I doubt he's going to have the role playing experience and maturity required to keep group cohesion in mind. You're setting yourself up for problems later with this one.

Fourth, assign the new player in the group a mentor. Find an experienced player who is willing to do a lot of explaining on the side while the game continues, and make them the primary tutor of the new player. Mention to the mentor that you don't want the game rocking to a halt every time something new needs to be taught, and to try to keep things moving when it's the player's turn. Then come up with a really nice incentive for the mentor to reward them for their time. Maybe a nice magic item, or additional exp, or an out of game token of appreciation like their favorite food once in a while. Whatever works.

Fifth, the size of the group is a sticky problem. You don't want to kick anyone yet, but it may not be bad to announce your concern and put everyone 'on notice.' Something like "we have a lot of people in this group, and honestly we're too big by one. To make things go smoothly, I'm going to ask that all of you be on...

1 - I plan on making a speech to this effect at the start of the next session.

2 - A modified version of this will also be part of said speech.

3 - Done. I emailed the kid last night and he conceded to my polite request that he not be evil and pick a mystery power other than raising the dead.

4 - This actually took care of itself. Player, uh D, took new guy under his wing and invited him to D's house pre-game (D lives two blocks from me) to give him a crash course on fundamentals. The item reward is a good idea.

5 - One player is moving away after next session. I'm going to try and smooth things over; I suspect that either A and Son or B are going to drop out within a month anyway. Not so much from hard feelings; in a group of six, somebody's going to drop out. (and A has a history of consecutive last minute no-shows from time to time)


ummmmmmmmm yeah


Instead of entering a normal rage, the urban ranger can get a +4 morale bonus to one physical ability score, or divide that in +2 increments.

Question 1: Can he still rage normally?

Question 2: While in a controlled rage, can he shift that bonus around, or must he decide what the bonus is when he enters the rage, and keep it till he's done raging?


Hugo Rune wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
I can't really see a connection between your problems and the ones the OP put forth Hugo. Those are players who were clearly not trying to cooperate with the party, while the Undead Lord in the OP was cooperating really well with the party. He got ganked by a gunslinger for (as far as I can tell) no legitimate reason.

The players had created characters they thought were going to be fun to play, without considering how the character concept would sit with a general party. The player who created an Undead Lord did the same. In most parties playing an Undead Lord can be predicted, as the OP did, to cause problems.

The gunslinger certainly wasn't in the right his actions but he was provoked - whether metaknowledge is involved or not is pretty much irrelevant to how the group of players get along.

Respectfully disagree. With that last statement, anyway.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

How was player A more wrong for playing a cooperative party member who was contributing to the team (even providing knowledge through his character's ritual when there was a chance the DM might force a concentration roll or something to not negate the ritual) and got shot because the character refused to cooperate at gunpoint?

*Points a gun at Person who is out of spells and resources with which to fight anyway* "Take care of this problem or I'll blow your brains out."

*Person without a means to fight and in the middle of an important ritual comparable to the one made to call an Animal Companion* "Better watch who you point that gun at boy, you won't always have it."

*BOOM! HEADSHOT!*

Um.... who's in the wrong there Byrdology?

This pretty much was my impression of the scene. To provide more context, the cleric burned up all his channels to heal one guy earlier in the day, negated a hostile lion by healing said lion's wounds and helping the bard with her handle animal check, and used healer's kits to heal wounded party members and bystander NPC's.

Along the way, there was some friction between the cleric and the gun tank, in which the cleric "threatened" (teasing, really) to withhold healing next time the gun tank went down.


FallofCamelot wrote:

To the OP. I think your issue is that you want to say yes to your players because you want them to do whatever they want. That's laudable, you want people to have fun and that's a good position to start from.

The problem though is what you have encountered here, if you say yes to everybody then you get clashes of this nature. The environment you have created is that everybody has created individual characters not a coherant group. As a result it's causing clashes because everybody is connected to their characters but not the group.

Here's what to do:

1) Learn to say no. If you are not comfortable with anything or you think it will cause problems then say no. Prevention is better than cure.

2) Read the riot act. Before the next game session say that you don't want the players fighting each other. One of the signs of a good player is acting with a group and mitigating his actions in order to maintain a harmonious environment. Try to encourage this and exert some control of your group.

3) Lay the ground rules... Say exactly what you want to the players which I assume at this point is a group of PC's that work together and try to get along without blowing each other's heads off.

4) ...Then let them sort it out. Playing RPG's is a group activity so everyone should have a say. When you talk to your group as players they don't have the old "it's what my character would do" excuse. Instead they have to work this out amongst themselves as players. Try to get the group to come to a consensus and compromise as a group.

Hopefully having a group meeting should sort this out. Make sure to do this in person, not online and be prepared to allow players to create new characters or alter existing ones as necessary.

Good luck.

As to 1 - there may be some truth to this. But also, I have no idea how a particular character is going to play out. I've certainly seen many PvP and near-PvP incidents come about with no evil PC involved (at least not on paper).

And even CE characters can be a good fun, in the right company.


Pendagast wrote:

from the description I dont understand what the problem was.

The cleric in session 1 healed everyone, in session 2 is going through a ritual that no one is the wiser of, there is 6 other characters to deal with the poltergeist and they are in no way in any real danger, because the oracle has just figured out all they need to do is back away.

So the first question is, why must the cleric do something about the poltergeist? How do any of the other characters know the cleric CAN do something about it, any more than they can? OOC assumptions?

The evil undead lord cleric (who isnt even evil, technically) hasnt done anything wrong, yet. Infact, he may even find a way to conceal his undead buddy depending on where that goes.

Raistlin Majere was a neutral (evil) character is a party of mostly goodie goods, even in the beginning when he was red robed he was a reluctant help and somewhat of a menace, which only got worse with time. But he was never a full disruption to the story.

I think the gun tank is using out of game knowledge and deciding he's had enough.... and what has the oracle done that has become a problem?

Nothing... yet. I have asked him privately if he would consider switching to a non-evil alignment (he's straight up NE on his sheet) and picking a mystery that isn't resurrecting dead critters.


FallofCamelot wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

That also depends on the Undead Slayer Cleric and how he reacts to it. I know that, personally speaking, having an ally to help me kill the undead that need to be killed is a good thing.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Sure I'd be watching the guy and his necrohort like a hawk, but that can be a fun and interesting roleplay scenario as well.

(I'm not saying this wasn't making the party dynamic more difficult than it had to be, because it certainly did. I'm just saying it didn't have to be a bad thing.)

I don't think the OP would have mentioned it if it wasn't a problem...

Undead Slayer cleric never showed up, and I haven't heard from him since (or ever met him, for that matter). So after what seemed like a pretty successful first session, I thought the matter solved.


Lord Tsarkon wrote:

Since you are the DM and you can bend the rules and this is a level 1 party, and the Domain Ability is 3+ Wisdom modifier (so atleast 4 times or more per day),

why not make a DM Fiat rule that if the Cleric spends a Full Round Action and expends 2 uses (or more on one person only) she can Burst Negative healing after the Full Round Action so the party member can be healed?

Was it during combat or out of combat>? Is this something you think the PC will abuse?

Being Level 1 has its disadvantages, and knowing is half the battle, so the player now understands the limitations of her character... especially at low level. Thid is also why your first level feat selection is so important. (Certain Feats can help with this situation, such as the ones already stated by others).

If she is the only healer in the party, allowing some kind of trade or balance to keep the party alive isn't going to bring the whole game to a halt.

Bend the Rules just a little bit, but be firm to the players that you are only doing this because of low levels or only until level 2,ect.

My example would be:

Round 1:Cleric moves to Corpse and begs her God to allow her crappy first level power last long enough for her to burst negative healing next round.

Round 2:DM/God listens... and suggests she contemplate her character (sheet) for a full round by expending multiple uses on one single player. (Trade off)

Round 3:Cleric uses Negative channel and heals that one person...

So, Cleric just got Swift Channel for free?

I'm going to go with my first instinct, but announce that it's a houserule that only applies to this ability, and the rules are being bent for the purpose of healing PC's (and NPC's)


FallofCamelot wrote:

OK so you have a guy raising undead in the party who is a follower of an evil deity who is in turn not helping the group when they are being attacked? Plus he has escalated a confrontation to threats of death and he knew this character would stomp all over other people's concepts? Yeah he's not blameless in this.

This PC is not conducive to party cohesion and worse he knew this would happen. He's not alone in the blame here, the Gunslinger shouldn't have escalated things that far, but what do you expect? The Undead Lord knew he was going to annoy the rest of the party and his actions support that hypothesis.

If you dump the Gunslinger player then you are condoning the actions of the Undead Lord and basically making him your pet player. I would not appreciate as a player my GM siding with a fellow player who seems to have created a deliberately antagonistic character.

My advice? Sit down with your players and discuss things.

Bear in mind that Player A was completely out of Spells and Channels and has negative Dex and Str scores. So she probably wouldn't have been much help.

... except that her Knowledge would totally have helped.

Pet player?

... yeah, I guess I might be guilty of that.

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