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1,020 posts. Alias of Peter Heleva.


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My prediction is more oriented on what pre-existing concepts they'll try and convert. Paizo doesn't seem to have any problem telegraphing the inspirations for their concepts, especially Archtypes. (Black Blade=Elric, Mysterious Stranger=Man with No Name, Reanimator=Reanimator, Ragechemist=Hulk, Shield Champion=Cap)

I'm thinking half the book will be Stephen King heavy, something like:

1. Carrie (telekinetic)
2. Firestarter (pyrokinetic)
3. Firestarter's Dad (Pusher/Psychic version of Charm Person/Command, but targets who succeed at the won't be immune for 24 hrs like hexes)
3. Daniel "Shining" Torrance aka Haley Joel (talking to dead people/history of touched objects)
4. Johnny "Dead Zone" Smith (psychically telling future)

Some of these have the potential for overlap. For example, 1 and 2 will probably both be options for the kineticist. I also predict there'll be some negative consquequences of overusing certain class abilities, somewhere between an Oracle's curse and the Ego of an Intelligent weapon. I'm recalling the way Firestarter went berserk or Jack Torrance succumbed to the ghosts of the Overlook and went axe-happy.

#4 might be hard to work into combat, but makes for fabulous RP potential.

At the very least there will be archeytpes that fit most of these molds almost exactly.

Heladriell wrote:
I would like the new material to be multiclass-friendly. The abilities of the new classes/ powers should continue to increase (although at a lower rate) with HD from other classes. Something like the oracles's curse. I think that integrating those new concepts into existing classes would be awesome.

But would probably be OP.

What I would like is for psychic power levels to stack with levels from other psychic classes in some way. AFAIK, the only spell progressions that stack so far that are for Prestige classes with fairly steep requirements.

I'd like to see a Mad Scientist/Golem-creator type class, where the PC creates a flesh golem type companion that levels like an AC or an Eidelon, but has unique tech/psychic based upgrades. I'm thinking Alchemist formula list, with a way to deliver the extracts to the creature at range, and crappy BAB, but Eidolon type BAB for monster. And maybe the creature reacts to channeling like Undead.

How about something like The Shadow? Hypnosis-based Invisibility from level one, but it offers a will save based off PC's charisma. Say, mintues per day equal Cha bonus +level or 1/2 level? 3/4 BAB and massive bonuses for target's will save if PC attacks target. Lots of face skills, with the idea being that you freak out your opponents via force of will. No spells, but maybe some Monk abilities, like Wisdom bonus to AC or good saves. Maybe a few goodies from other Occult classes.

Also, how about options for Undead or Undeadish PCs?

How about a class that specialized in Ghost-Touch weapons/abilities? Possibly through the collision of highly charged positrons. Or not.

Maybe Ghost Hunter should be an Inquisitor archetype?

2 people marked this as a favorite.

In the case of being on the receiving end of a healing bomb, I'd say that it sounds to me like catching a football. The amount of Dodge/Dex that you lower in order to catch it should count inversely to the chances of an enemy hitting you, since you're concentrating on catching. Different from a ray, but not much different.

Does that make sense?


SRD wrote:

Foolhardy Rush

At 2nd level, the cavalier can charge across the battlefield at a moment's notice. Whenever the cavalier attempts an initiative check, as long as he rolls an 11 or higher on the die, he can move up to his base speed as an immediate action and he is not considered flat-footed.

If the cavalier takes an action to move during his next turn, he subtracts the number of feet moved during the initiative check from his total movement.

So... the Cavalier can move at his base speed? Does this apply to a mount that the cavalier is on? At the mount's base speed, which will invariably be greater than the Cavalier's?

If the Cavalier does this and moves the mount's full speed, does he get to dismount and move his full speed?

Also, how do you attempt an initiative check? Shouldn't it read "rolls his initiative"?

Same question (mount or Cavalier?) on Blaze of Glory.

SRD wrote:

Foolhardy Rush

At 2nd level, the cavalier can charge across the battlefield at a moment's notice. Whenever the cavalier attempts an initiative check, as long as he rolls an 11 or higher on the die, he can move up to his base speed as an immediate action and he is not considered flat-footed.

If the cavalier takes an action to move during his next turn, he subtracts the number of feet moved during the initiative check from his total movement.

So... the Cavalier can move at his base speed? Does this apply to a mount that the cavalier is on? At the mount's base speed, which will invariably be greater than the Cavalier's?

If the Cavalier does this and moves the mount's full speed, does he get to dismount and move his full speed?

Also, how do you attempt an initiative check? Shouldn't it read "rolls his initiative"?

Same question (mount or Cavalier?) on Blaze of Glory.

Investigator has Diplomacy, all Knowledges, his Intelligence helps him hit things, and probably (if you have a good Intelligence) has the highest Skill point value in the game. As of third level you can start Infusing healing extracts to hand out to people. Or you can take Brew Potion and start making healing potions at level one.

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Its in the new advanced class guide. Just checked archives and your right. Wow. Did not know.

You could try drunken brute/ Alchemist with potion glutton. You would get more out of rage by swilling booze. Puts you down a feat but getting a nice boost in abilities.

I would do 8 barbarian/4 alchemist if you are going more martial.
If you want more alchemy power go 2 barb/7 alchemist/3 master chemist.

Either way will be vicious.

You can still sub fighter for feats but I really like free action rage, move action drink, and standard action drink again and area denial with AoO. Now your set up to own the field.

I like the arm idea but you could make yourself more bestial with a crab familiar tumor gainingfast healing and a +2 to grapple. Or a ttentacle which can take AoO and give you +4 to grapple CMB and CMD as well as the grab ability. You can mix it up as well an arm and a tentacle. Basically play make a monster.

The fast healing for the tumor familiar only applies to the familiar.

Zedorland wrote:

Hi all. I'm starting up a new PFS character, an alchemist fighter multiclass.

Str 15 (17) +2 racial
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wiz 12
Cha 7

Race- Half elf (dual minded. will save suffers pretty hard without it)

Traits- defender of the society (+1 AC), carefully hidden (that will save again)

Fighter 1- Combat reflexes, Feat- Power attack
Alchemist 1
Alchemist 2- Discovery- vestigial arm, feat- extra discovery vestigial arm.
alchemist 3
alchemist 4- Iron will/improved initiative/quick draw

The goal is to wield a 2 handed reach weapon, a shield, and a one handed melee weapon all at the same time, chug an extract of enlarge person, and play zone denial with large reach.

I'm pretty happy with the build up to level 5, but I'm not sure what to do from there. Do I go more martial, grab another level of fighter or two, and keep my BAB up, or do I commit to full alchemist, maybe branching out into master chymist later (very late in a PFS career). Also, im not sure what (if any) archetypes i should take on my alchemist and fighter levels.

Thanks all!

An Investigator makes Alchemist extracts and has access to discoveries one level later than Alchemists.

More importantly for your build he has good Will and Reflex saves, and as far as I know is the only class that does apart from Bards. So that meshes well with a fighter mix. It would also let you bring Charisma up and drop Wisdom to ten.

I would consider going full Investigator and using a longspear. You can spend your trait buffing your Fortitude; poison resistance will help also. If you have an eye on a better reach weapon, you could be human and get it with your extra feat or get proficiency via half-elf. The latter is probably the better option because you probably already think of him (her?) as a half-elf and you get the resistance to sleep effects etc, which you'll need more than a bonus skill point.

Bad news - for what you want to do, going full investigator won't get you shield proficiency.

Good news-turns out Darkwood items are legal in PFS; a Darkwood heavy shield has no check penalty and you won't care about Arcane Spell Failure. My Alchemist uses his vestigial arm to hold one.

The first thing I notice is that this spell is the same level as Beast Shape 1, so I see no real reason for wizards to take this spell instead of that one for the purposes of morphing the familiar. Even if you were to Beast Shape your rhamphorynchus into a rat or something, that shouldn't affect the bonus the familiar gives you, AFAIK.

So really, it's better for witches and shamans, who don't have access to Beast Shape.

Utility? The first thing that comes to my mind is an easy way to grant your familiar the ability to breathe underwater.

Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
7crown wrote:

you can release your familiar and pay the new familiar cost of 200g per level and any associated cost of gaining the improved familiar (it would be stated in the familiars description, beyond clockwork and homunculus I'm not sure if there is any though)

"If a familiar is dismissed, lost, or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete"

Except you get the improved familiar for free (disregarding the feat cost).

"The exception to the above is if you take the Improved Familiar feat, which allows you to immediately replace your familiar with the new familiar, at no cost or time required (it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up)."

To clarify:

You are currently 5th level. Your eye is on the Faerie Dragon at level 7, but in the meantime you'd rather have a Sprite than the familiar you currently have. If you take the feat now, I was asking what was involved with replacing the familiar later, assuming it doesn't die.

greysector wrote:
Apocryphile wrote:

However, if your opponent is size Large, they will also occupy adjacent squares to your occupied square, and when they move, they will move through one of your adjacent squares. And that movement will trigger the AoO.

But if they are only taking a 5ft. step, the adjacent square movement won't provoke and AoO, even though the attempt to leave your square will. But you couldn't use stand still on them at that point.

Taking a 5' step doesn't provoke any AoO, ever.



Can a Sprite use a wand, being so small?


Am I allowed to have a Sprite Familiar at level 5? The d20pfsrd has it on the list, but I don't see it on the Paizo PRD.

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Most Elementals seem to be more or less humanoid, at least according to the artwork.


So when you take this feat, what's involved with picking a new, different familiar as you level, if your old familiar(s) don't die?

I couldn't find Sound of Mind on your list. It boosts Will saves by +2, but only mind-affecting ones.

I cross referenced spells that offer a will save that isn't mind- affecting. I had a tough time finding any that worried me. Most of them are illusions. The nastiest illusions (color spray, phantasmal killer, rainbow pattern) actually are mind-affecting.

Greater Invisibility is a third level Summoner spell. Is a potion legal in PFS?

Well... it is actually hiding a hand. Sleight of hand seems kind of appropriate.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I think you misunderstand what I said about two-weapon fighting.

Nobody is saying throwing a Bomb requires two hands.

I am saying you can two weapon fight, to throw an additional Bomb.

Okay, let's say you have the Vestigial Arm Discovery, and Quick Bombs Discovery, this is what you are doing with the arms:

Arm #1: Throwing Bomb

Arm #2: Throwing Bomb

Arm #3: Holding Shield

Does that make sense now?

Yeah, I got it. The character is only 4th level, and already has PB shot.

The business about the bomb requiring two hands is separate. Like, I could imagine a GM pulling some funny business, asking how I'm mixing a bomb with only one hand.

lemeres wrote:
Westphalian_Musketeer wrote:

One reach weapon, one non-reach weapon, add combat reflexes and enlarge person (making sure you still have a Dexterity bonus): you are now the closest thing to a mobile wall without anything other than a 1st level extract/spell/wand.

You can also use it to keep a wand at the ready for emergency buffing/healing at all times.

Tentacle might be a nicer discovery for that though, since it turns primary and gets 1.5x str and power attack bonus if it is your only natural attack.

Plus, it has grab, so free action grapple on a successful hit, and +4 to the relevant grapple checks. It is nice enough to consider a grapple build along side reach. Or at the very least, it gives you an amusing option against low CMD magical girls (or guys...not judgin').

I think tentacle is particularly relevant to this discussion, since it "can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms can". So I end up asking- if you are not going for that twin discovery... would tentacle be better in most circumstances?

If you were going for extra attacks or grapple, I would agree with you. The CMD is so low with my build that I'd rather have the bonus shield slot. Also, the entry for the tentacle discovery says nothing about wielding weapons, with is what I'd prefer to use the extra limb for.

Since there's nothing in the Alchemist's entry about needing two hands to make a bomb (is there a FAQ on this?), I'm going to leave one arm for bomb-making/extract consuming, one with a shield, and my hidden vestigial limb will be available for utility - holding a potion, if needed. If no potion seem is needed/available, the extra arm will default to holding a poisoned dagger for opportunity attacks.

There are a bunch of situations where I think an Alchemist hiding his vestigial arm could come in handy, such as:

1) Placing both hands on a table to illustrate that you're no threat to the person across the table, then stabbing them with a poisoned dagger.

2) Getting captured and shackled with the assumption that you only have two hands.

3) Cheating at cards.

4) Stealing/palming an item small enough to be held in one hand, and then showing your two innocent palms.

5) Picking a pocket.

6) Passing an item to a comrade surreptitiously.

Most of these are going to be sleight of hand checks, some of which might arguably be aided by a bluff.

But what of the basic hiding of the arm itself? Sleight of hand (An Alchemist skill)? Disguise? Bluff? Craft Clothing/costume?

blackbloodtroll wrote:

No. Throwing a Bomb only requires one hand.

With the Quick Bombs Discovery, you can two weapon fight, with Bombs.

Basically, the same way you would with any thrown weapon.

So, you end up throwing a barrage of Bombs as full-round action.

My suggestion, was that you would use the extra arm, to hold a shield, and benefit from the AC it provides, whilst not interfering with your ability to throw Bombs.

I personally wouldn't bother with TWF when I can Rapid Shot, but I take your meaning. And this might be the Pumpkin Ale talking, but I think I've just picked my 4th level discovery.

Q: How would you rule hiding the arm? Disguise or Sleight of Hand?

Calth wrote:
Alabartus The Bard wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The polymorph section is about spells, but this rule applies generally to all size affecting increases. You can't have more than one. I know it's not clear, but that is the situation. Since Demonic Bulk works like a spell, you cannot have any other size increasing effect that will work on you at the same time.

Basically because it says as Enlarge Person, it works exactly like the spell. Which has that restriction.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. You're jumping to a conclusion base on an assumption with very little supporting evidence. First, if it worked exactly like the spell (which the word "exactly" does not appear in the description in the book) it wouldn't be a supernatural ability it would be a spell like ability. You can dispel enlarge, but not demonic bulk. There are mechanical differences in how they function. It is not exact, a better word would be "comparable".

Second, you can not simply assume a given rule applies unilaterally even to unrelated effects, "just because". If it's not written, it's not a rule, unless the DM says otherwise of course. If you can point me to a Paizo book (not third party, not WotC) that says, "only one step of size increase is allowed from ANY source, not just spells" or some variation there of I'll gladly concede the point; but given the text here I have no reason to believe that a supernatural size increase doesn't stack with a spell induced size increase especially since other people in this thread have given the same interpretations of the rules as me. That passage is very clearly only prohibiting the stacking of spells. I could even see the argument being made if Daemonic Bulk was a magical or spell like ability, but it's not even that much.

It's not a spell so, as I see it, it does not apply.

From enlarge person, which demonic bulk replicates: Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack. Supernatural abilities are still magical....

Yeah, looks like you can't go Gargantuan, bro. The way that's worded, it seems to be a blanket rule that's written into a spell. Unusual, but there you go.

xavier c wrote:
Summoned Creatures are not real

Um, what?

Neither are bloodragers, or half-orcs, or sorcerers (probably).

If it can kill your character (without a Will save), it's real enough, isn't it?

Prometeus wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:
Not sure what the question is.
Sorry, the question is that is this thing viable ? Or I'm missing something here

Need more info. I certainly wouldn't advise that you wear it naked, for example.

And I don't know about ANY situation. There are some situations you can't handle with your claws or fists...

If you're asking if it's a good idea to get an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Guided enchantment, then sure, if he's got a high Wisdom mod. If it's the only thing you get on it, then your natural attacks will not count as magic weapons for the purpose of getting through DR, afaik.

So I just read the description of an Amulet of Mighty Fists based on another post, and it turns out you can add the Guided enchantment to one, without even having the initial +1 on Mighty Fists.

So basically, if you can wait until you earn 4K gp (and have access to ye olde magick shoppe), you can pay for a better version of guided hand. A Guided amulet will give you Wisdom bonus to attack and damage rolls.

So, no cleric dip needed? If you still want the AC bump, dip in the monk level.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Sorry, that was just a rant about how some approach the Discovery, in ridiculous ways.

Like, really nuts.


Holding a Darkwood Heavy Shield, whilst you two-weapon fight with Bombs using your other hands is a good option.

Do you need TWF? Does chucking a bomb require more than one hand?

Are Darkwood items allowed in PFS?

blackbloodtroll wrote:


Having the Vestigial Limb Discovery may actually decrease the number of attacks you can make, actions you can take, and might even require DC 20 Will Save, every round, or do nothing but punch yourself in the face.


Shield - yeah, maybe. Like a Darkwood buckler? But then, why couldn't I just use one of those anyway?

I suppose one could make an argument for a multiclassed Alchemist/Ranger or Alchemist/Fighter that uses TWF and a shield.

Pretty bad Will save, though.

7 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm actually planning an encounter in which PC's who step into a certain room in a dungeon (and fail a Will save) will be transported to an alternate dimension to fight for an extraplanar magic user (maybe an Illithid?) to do battle with an enemy. If a PC drops from damage, he's instantly returned to homeplane and all damage and ill effects healed.

But they'll remember.

Not sure what the question is.

This would be for a range-focused bomb-chucking Alchemist.

I'm thinking:

1)Always be holding a poisoned dagger in case of melee attacks.
2)Extra heal potion or wand for downed comrades? But administering it isn't a free action.
3)Be holding the magic MacGuffin item.
4)Extra potion.
5)Set of thieves' tools?

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Frost bombs is a pretty good one. It gives you a way to get around fire resistance, and the staggering can be good if you can land the save.

The thing I like about Strafe Bomb is that it doesn't require you to prepare Strafing Bombs. So if I'm in the middle of a fight I can switch to Strafing or regular bombs at will, depending on circumstances. Circumstances like: my target is completely surrounded by my comrades. Strafing lets me shoot the bomb in a straight line and excuse 2 or 3 (up to 6, really) of them from splash damage.

I've always been wary of frost bombs because there aren't a lot of outsider types with fire immunity at low levels in PFS. At higher levels I'll be tossing Force Bombs anyway, which will affect pretty much everything. Why waste an extra discovery?

Rynjin wrote:

Smoke Bombs, and then Stink Bombs are pretty radnasty. Stinking Cloud! Stinking Cloud for everyone!

Also, I don't play PFS, but something named "Shadow's Last Stand" screams undead to me.

Shadow Lodge is a faction. So probably it'll be inter-faction politics.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Explosive bombs is very nice as well, especially since you already have Precise Bombs. Also, have you considered Cognatogen? Assuming you're not a mind chemists, that is.

What I don't like about Cognatogen is the ability score damage that you suffer. I have access to Lesser Restoration, but I'd rather not eat up my extract slot.

Actually - and I should have mentioned this - I think I have enough spare gold for a headband of intelligence. Seems like a smarter bet (get it) than a belt of Dex. Belt of Dex + Cognatogen wont' give me bonus extract slots, so basically it'll only jack my DCs up by one point.

Whereas Headband of Intelligence + Dex Mutagen doesn't do ability score damage and frees up a slot for, say, a vestigial arm. Anybody ever take Vestigial Arm?

This is for PFS, btw.

Human Alchemist 4


Str 10
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 20
Wis 13
Cha 07


Indomitable Faith

1 Point Blank Shot, Improved Initiative
2 Tumor Familiar (Rhamporhyncus)
3 ED: Precise Bomb


Cloak +1
Chain Shirt +1
various goodies like Periscope, rope, brooch of shielding with forty points left

I'm thinking either Strafe Bomb or Ectoplasmic. I'm leaning Strafe because his next two mods are Shadow's Last Stand, which I have no reason to suspect include undead (no spoilers).

EDIT: Wrong mod.

Imbicatus wrote:
joeyfixit wrote:

I personally don't even need the BAB bit, which seems like it could lead to brokenness. Seems like maybe that could be a trait all its own.
I agree it's not needed, but it makes it possible to take weapon focus or power attack at one for non-full bab classes which makes a huge difference in feat selection on feat-starved builds. I just felt it would be nice to have a trait that helps people that don't multiclass fighter.

Now that the ACG's out, I think we have a lot of options for that BAB dip. I count 13 classes out of 32...

Maybe you're right, but I think that's enough for a trait of its own.

Warpriest as a frontline fighter benefits from high Str, Con, Wis, Charisma (for channeling).

A melee Alchemist will want a high Int, Str, Dexterity (light armor, throwing bombs, trained in Stealth), Constitution, Wisdom (poor Will save). They also get UMD so Charisma isn't too bad.

Melee Druid will want high Str, Con, Dex (no metal armor, no armor bonus while wildshaped), Wis (spell stat), and benefits from a good Charisma for Handle Animal/Wild Empathy.

Imbicatus wrote:

I could see there being a "Fighter's Knack" trait as follows:

Fighter's Knack
You qualify for feats as if you had two additional Fighter levels, as long as these levels would not raise you above your current hit dice. These levels only count for the purpose of qualifying for feats. They do not raise BAB. Additionally, you can take any feat that requires a base attack bonus of 1 regardless of your actual bonus.


BAB isn't what I was asking for. What I meant was Feats that require a specific FIGHTER level, not BAB (though it's sometimes both).

Disrupting Shot, for example, requires a Fighter level of 6. So when you're planning out your ranged attack build you now have a tough choice to make - do you drop the two-level dip in a different class (for skills, mostly), or do you bend your entire character around this feat?

Magical Knack gives casters a compromise when they're putting a build together with feats that require a specific caster level (like Quick Wildshape, for example). Be nice if Fighters had something similar.

I personally don't even need the BAB bit, which seems like it could lead to brokenness. Seems like maybe that could be a trait all its own.


What's the rest of the party?

Re: Proficiency -

I believe Drow are proficient with Whips, if DM will allow it. You'll want to be more Dex-focused, in that case.

Is there a way to increase your effective Fighter level for feats without actually taking all of the levels? Like, if you have a 6HD character with one or two levels dipping in Slayer, and you want to qualify for feats with a 6th level Fighter prereq?

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