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TwilightKnight's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur. 4,041 posts (4,115 including aliases). 12 reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 14 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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The Fox wrote:
it is the tone

Perhaps that is the crux of the issue. If anyone is reading tone into posts, they are making a mistake. Of course, I cannot speak for anyone else, but my approach to this is clinical. I have a lot of passion for PFS, but not for any specific rule (in fact there are number of them I wholly disagree with). I am interested to see how CORE is going to work out and since the decision to roll it out has already been made, I have hopes it will work and will endevour to make it so. However, I am not married to the concept and if it doesn't work, I will not force it on players I organize for, nor will I support its continuation.

The Fox wrote:
Possibly better would be "Your fears are justified and valid. There is every possibility that what you fear will come to pass. But none of us want that. We will do whatever we can to prevent that from happening. If your fears do, in fact, become the reality, then we will reverse course on this plan. We all care about the PFS community as much as you obviously do. We are here to support it, and to support you and your needs."

While not using those specific words that is exactly what we are trying to say.

After reading 1000+ posts over multiple threads and forums, the only conclusion I can come up with is that there is nothing we can say to appease the people with concerns, especially the ones who are die-hard against CORE. It seems the only solution is to let them vent and hope their fears will be assuaged when (hopefully) the program works. That doesn't mean I/we don't care about their concerns, it just means if there is nothing we can do or say to make a difference, then the best approach might be to remain quiet on the subject.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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The Fox wrote:
Instead of trying to prove that those who are fearful are wrong, I recommend trying to ease their fears.

The problem is, that is exactly what most of the VO's have tried to do. Give encouragement and solutions on how it could work. People post an example of their concern, and someone posts a suggestion how to overcome it. Most of us have said at least once, that we don't deny the concerns, we just think that the level of passion being attached to some of the concerns, may in fact, be unfounded, or at least over-reactive.

For those with fears how this is going to impact them, what are we supposed to do? It seems that the response to either wait and see how it works out in your area and/or to work with our local organizers for the best solution is not being received as an acceptable response. So I ask, What should we be saying? If offering possible/constructive solutions is not the answer, then what is?

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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There are a bazillion anecdotal scenarios that we can describe where CORE will work, won't work, kinda work, whatever. The hope is that local groups will not view this as a black and white, play or leave, situation. since the first OP starter there have been issues to overcome from party mix choices, to level coordination, etc. I think if everyone involved acts like an adult, communicates their wants/needs with the local group, solutions and compromises can be reached. IMO, this is really no different a challenge than most of the ones we encounter when organizing events. Sure it adds another challenge, but it also affords another opportunity. Please keep an open mind and work with your local organizers.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Dr Vinnie Boombatz wrote:
Iconic mounts...Pig

Umm, are you saying what I think you are?

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Imbicatus wrote:
I get that this is a volunteer job, and that the VOs have know about this longer than we have. But ignoring our concerns in this matter is only making it look worse for the campaign from my point of view.

And I would agree with you IF this was a case of a snap response. It is not. I spend hours watching/reviewing the forums after the announcement, and responding to various posters. I was getting a constant and unrelenting barrage of negative responses to my suggestions. No one's concerns were being ignored. Solutions and encouragement were being offered, but there is only so many times I'm beat my head against the "brick wall" before I stop. Where's the appreciation for the other side of the conversation? The side that didn't take a "sky is falling" approach to this topic. I guess they are permitted free reign to ignore or bash any idea that isn't their own.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Imbicatus wrote:
Always nice to see a venture officer belittle those who don't agree with them. And you wonder why there are those that feel this is going to hurt the player base and the game.

Really? So after multiple pages throughout numerous threads both in these forums and other places like Facebook, Yahoo, etc. where I have, up to this point done nothing but try to "sell" the possible benefits of CORE, offer suggestions as to how some people can use it to their advantage, and ask them to give it chance before destroying it out-of-hand only to be met with constant derision and negativity, I'm the one that gets called out for supposed bad behavior?

and people wonder why most Venture-Officers tend to avoid the forums *sigh*

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Well, it was a hard fight, but we managed to filling fill all outstanding GM slots. A few tables had a be cancelled along the way for various reasons, but luckily very few players were affected. We should have space for both Silverhex Chronicles and Pathfinder Adventure Card game, so we're excited about that.

Additionally, I can reveal the surprise we have been keeping secret until now. Two, count 'em two retired scenarios are being resurrected for Winter War.

On Saturday night, we will be offering #10 Blood at Dralkard Manor for character levels 4-5. And then on Sunday afternoon, we dust off #25 Hands of the Muted God for your 7-9th level PCs. Both are fully updated for the Pathfinder ruleset and include a new chronicle sheet with additional rewards. To make it even better, we have coaxed none other than our fearless leader, Mike Brock to GM these tables for us! It should be great fun so bring your applicable characters.

We did not list these events for pre-registration because the seats will be raffled off onsite to twelve lucky players. Proceeds from this raffle as well as some other little tidbits will be donated to the American Cancer Society via Relay for Life.

So see ya Friday night February 6th in Champaign Illinois for WINTER WAR!

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Another thing I thought of and don't recall seeing brought up is that this means there are twice as many options for specials since they can be offered both CORE and non-CORE. Areas where a lot of, but not all players, have already played previous season specials may benefit from being able to offer them again in CORE format and everyone can play AND GM for credit. As a bonus, GMs actively trying to earn their 5th star, now have more options to fulfill the 10-special requirement.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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I seriously doubt that CORE will grow to outshine PFS. Players like their toys afterall. There may be a big response over the next couple of months, but I expect overall, once the initial fervor subsides, CORE will be less than 20% of our total events.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Philderbeast wrote:
Please please please please let core characters sit at the same table as non-core characters without losing there core only status.

I disagree. Reporting is not the driving issue here. If a player with a CORE character is sitting at a mixed table, s/he gets to benefit directly or indirectly from non-CORE content through their interactions with the non-CORE characters at the table. That is not what CORE is about.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

this is why he shouldbe panicking. Or well.. at least worried.

He is not a venture officer. He does not control a region. There is every possibility that "his region" will go with an option that "his region" wants but that he doesn't like. There is every possibility that his region is not large enough to support both PFS Core and PFS Classic.

Balderdash. You do not have to be a Venture-Officer to organize games. If there isn't enough CORE, organize more. If there isn't enough non-CORE, organize more. Simple, and I'm sure that 99% of the VOs out there would appreciate more organizers/coordinators.

Besides, its always been about what is in the best interest of the region, not an individual player. What if he prefers high-tier and the local organizers/players prefer low-tier. OR maybe he likes the epic nature of adventure paths, but no one else wants to play them. It's just another bullet in the arsenal of organizers to try and muster up more options for players. The more options their are, the more players we can appease. Will everyone get everything they want every time? Of course not, but there is waaay too much "the sky is falling" regarding CORE and AFAIK we haven't even had a single event occur yet.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Do I just tell the player that the Golarion universe renders the action an impossibility?

Completely up to you. There are a plethora of ambiguities in the rules left to the GM to adjudicate. If you simply want to say, "no, you can't do that" it is certainly within your right. If you choose to be a more inventive GM and allow the player some imaginative flexibility, more power to ya. Losing Dirty Trick is both a bane and a boon. While the player no longer has a specific rule to define their custom action/s, you are no longer bound to strictly apply the rule as it exists outside of CORE. The important thing will be to apply your best judgement in such as way as to be as inclusive as possible without letting the player get away with murder.

OTOH, as the GM, you are still empowered to use all the rules in all the books at your disposal. So if to make things easier, you want to apply the mechanics for Dirty Trick to the player's actions as an aid in adjudicating the results, go for it.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Undone wrote:
Laundry list of complaints

Ya know, you're right. CORE is an absolutely terrible idea and you shouldn't play it. In fact, no one should play it. Mike should immediately repeal CORE because its not what YOU want.

I'm sorry, but I had to vent a bit. Relax Undone, it'll be okay. As I said in the other thread, CORE is going to be a great option for some regions. Let them use it to improve their game. If it doesn't work for you or your area, then just don't use it. Its no different than past complaints. Don't like gunslinger? Don't play one. Don't like modules? Don't play them. Don't like conventions? Don't go. Easy-peasy. There are compromises and solutions to be had so everyone can fun :-D

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Feral wrote:
I'm intrigued and curious what the ultimate purpose of the core campaign is?

Mike explains that in the opening sentence,

Blog wrote:
As the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign and the Pathfinder RPG itself has developed over the last several years, players have expressed increasing concerns about the availability of replay, new players being overwhelmed or overshadowed by over-optimized characters, Chronicle sheet rewards not having much meaning, and other concerns related to the sheer amount of information and options available to PFS players.

Like any rule/s it is not going to do everything for everyone. Some players will argue that CORE does not address any of the topics it claims to solve, while others will tell you it not only resolves those, but others as well. Only your local group/s can decide how best to use this new option to improve and enhance their gameplay.

Remember, this is just another OPTION for you. If it doesn't work for your local group, don't use it. CORE is no different than running modules, adventure paths, older scenarios, whatever. The local groups have complete control over what is/not running in their area. And assuming conventions are organized with even a modicum of skill, the events will be clearly identifiable as CORE or not. You should have [near]complete control over what you play and/or GM.

The funny thing is the people who can snap-judge a knee-jerk reaction to the proposal before the ink is even dry and declare CORE a complete failure without so much as a "we'll see" or a "I'll give it a try."
*sigh*

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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I hear a lot of "What ifs"...

The only two "real" complaints I've heard involved the challenge of scheduling CORE vs. PFS and elitism (or whatever you want to call it).

To those concerned with the former, its just another thing. What's the big deal? With all the factors an organizer has to weigh when scheduling events, this is just another minor challenge. The key is communication. Keep your players informed and other than the occasional hiccup, you'll be fine.

In regards to the latter, if think this is going to be any bigger blip in the forums than any other "argument" topic, I think you've been stricken with the "newest thing" disease. Will there be some people who find fault with this new campaign? Absolutely. Are they going to be any more disruptive than those who already incessantly complain about aspects of the existing campaign? Nope.

Nothing is going to please all the players, all the time

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Since I have complete, free rebuilds until I reach level two, can I take my existing level one character with 1-2 chronicles applied, and rebuild it as something else, but CORE only?

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Anyone who is a new or casual player is unlikely to peruse the forums and therefore will not gain anything from random players suggesting they will be a point of contact for anyone wanting suggestions/feedback on the sources of mature content.

Since this is a PFS forum concerning PFS material, it would seem that the easiest, most reasonable solution, if one is even required, would be to add a line or two to the Guide for Organized Play. Something to the effect that some material may not be suitable for younger viewersplayers, parental guidance is suggested. No change to the actual scenario is required. It also does what should already be the standard, which is leaving the responsibility on the parent/guardian/individual to access whether or not any material, or even this campaign, is appropriate.

There is also the issue that occurred when the PMRC forced the music industry to add warning labels to albums back in the 80's to denote adult content. It had the opposite effect and actually drew more attention to the "risque" material and increased consumption by those it was created to protect. In that vein, adding warning labels to gaming material might actually improve sales. Although, I would posit that sales increases based on that meme would not be the kind Paizo would want to get excited about.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Avatar, notice the emphasis on "no matter what". There is nothing wrong with digital devices as I have said now twice, the problem is when the GM wants to audit something, but does not want the responsibility/risk inherent with handling someone else's digital device. There a plenty of options to work through the issue, but I don't need to list them. The bottom line is that both the GM and the player can be accommodating to the other and compromise so the game can continue. If either side is being overly obstinate, then yes, they are BadWrongFun

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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IMO, if a GM bans a player simply because they don't have a printed copy of their character sheet, that is bad GMing. OTOH, if a player is being a jerk about only using their digital device no matter what, I have no sympathy for them either.

What happened to people just being accommodating to each other and trying to just make the gaming experience fun? Honestly, this incessant need to have every single nuance of the game governed by rules is exhausting and tends to drive players away.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Jiggy wrote:
Stuff

Sounds like you have a few options that allow you to continue to enjoy the game your way while still complying with the needs of the GM. WIN!

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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People, you're missing the "spirit" of this (and many other) discussions. Stop trying to one-up each other. There is nothing wrong with electronic devices, nor is there anything wrong with strictly paper. The issue is having some consideration for the other person, be it the GM or player, and having a solution that works for both without burdening either or the other players at the table. When you force a discussion like this to Brock's level, he has to make a ruling that becomes binding. Remember that in the future before you escalate an issue. You may not like the ruling he makes.
Table variation certainly spurs the largest amount of discussion, and often the most passionate, but its also one of the strengths or our campaign in that it allows a tiny bit of freedom to customize the gaming experience to suit your individual eccentricities. Embrace it before its gone. :-D

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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I have good news for those interested...Mike Brock will be attending Winter War and may be GMing a table or two. If/when we determine his involvement with any events, I will post the info. Until then, we will just welcome him as an attendee. I look forward to buying him a beer or two (or ten)
:-D

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Jiggy wrote:
That's not healthy

What has led you to believe that gamers, especially forum trolls are healthy? ;-)

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Player registration is now open!

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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I'm sorry to say, and I'm sure some will take offense, but if you have reached 3rd level or higher and still have not obtained a wayfinder, I don't have a lot of sympathy for failing this mission. The cost is minimal (certainly less than "wasted" expendable resources I've seen), but more importantly, it is a BADGE OF OFFICE, something that most members are expected to possess. Heck we offer a re-playable scenario such that you can get one for free or for minimum expense (250gp or 1 PA).

Sure, we can argue that the role-playing aspect of PFS is minimal compared to non-organized play, but to completely ignore it and turn the game into nothing more than a scale where every decision is an effort to weigh tangible benefits (power level) vs. cost defeats an integral part of the game. I just cannot fathom entire groups of characters that can be active members of the society, who have sworn allegiance to the tenets, "Explore, Report, Cooperate," and at the same time say they have absolutely no reason to own a wayfinder. Sorry if that sounds like an accusation of "BadWrongFun," guess I'm just a grognard.

Consider it a one-time occurrence of union dues :-D

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Once again we welcome you to join us for three full days of awesome gaming at Winter War 42 in Champaign, Illinois on 6-8 February 2015. The convention offers miniature/historical wargamming, an extensive library of board games, various collectable card games, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Role-playing games, etc. and of course plenty of Pathfinder Society events. There is also a silent auction and raffle on Saturday.

The schedule is not yet published, but all player registrations must be made through the official Winter War website, date/time to be announced soon. Volunteers/GMs will be accepted soon as well, so watch for updates.

Until then, here is the initial schedule of events:

Friday 2/6 2-6pm
#1 Silent Tide (1-5)
#24 Decline of Glory (1-7)
5-08 The Confirmation (1)
6-05 Slave Ships of Absalom (1-5)
6-06 Hall of the Flesheaters (1-5)
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
6-12 TBA (1-5)
3-08 Among the Gods (3-7)
6-02 Silver Mount Collection (3-7)
6-11 The Slave Master's Mirror (3-7)
1-50 Fortune's Blight (5-9)
2-06 The Heresy of Man part I: The First Heresy (5-9)
6-07 Valley of the Veiled Flame
5-10 Where Mammoth's Dare Not Tread (7-11)
6-13 TBA (7-11)

Friday 2/6 7-11pm
5-08 The Confirmation (1)
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
#17 Perils of the Pirate Act (1-7)
#55 The Infernal Vault (1-7)
6-01 Trial by Machine (1-5)
6-08 The Segang Expedition (1-5)
5-15 Day of the Demon (3-7)
4-05 The Sanos Abduction (3-7)
6-09 By Way of Bloodcove (3-7)
2-07 The Heresy of Man part II: Where Dark Things Sleep (5-9)
2-03 The Rebel's Ransom (5-9)
6-03 The Technic Siege (5-9)
5-05 The Elven Entanglement (7-11)
6-04 Beacon Below (7-11)

Saturday 2/7 9am-1pm
5-08 The Confirmation (1)
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
#1 Silent Tide (1-5)
#24 Decline of Glory (1-7)
6-05 Slave Ships of Absalom (1-5)
6-06 Hall of the Flesheaters (1-5)
6-12 TBA (1-5)
3-08 Among the Gods (3-7)
6-02 Silver Mount Collection (3-7)
6-11 The Slave Master's Mirror (3-7)
2-09 The Heresy of Man part III: Beneath Forgotten Sands (5-9)
#56 The Jester's Fraud (5-9)
6-07 Valley of the Veiled Flame (5-9)
2-18 The Forbidden Furnace of Forgotten Koor (7-11)
6-13 TBA (7-11)

Saturday 2/7 3-7pm
6-00 Legacy of the Stormlords (1-11)
6-12 TBA (1-5)
6-11 The Slave Master's Mirror (3-7)
6-03 The Technic Siege (5-9)
6-04 Beacon Below (7-11)

Saturday 2/7 8-midnight
5-08 The Confirmation (1)
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
#17 Perils of the Pirate Act (1-7)
#55 The Infernal Vault (1-7)
6-01 Trial by Machine (1-5)
6-06 Hall of the Flesheaters (1-5)
6-12 TBA (1-5)
5-15 Day of the Demon (3-7)
4-05 The Sanos Abduction (3-7)
6-09 By Way of Bloodcove (3-7)
2-06 The Heresy of Man part I: The First Heresy (5-9)
2-03 The Rebel's Ransom (5-9)
6-07 Valley of the Veiled Flame (5-9)
5-05 The Elven Entanglement (7-11)
6-13 TBA (7-11)

Sunday 2/8 9am-1pm
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
#1 Silent Tide (1-5)
#24 Decline of Glory (1-7)
6-05 Slave Ships of Absalom (1-5)
6-08 The Segang Expedition (1-5)
5-99 The Paths We Choose
2-07 The Heresy of Man part II: Where Dark Things Sleep (5-9)
6-03 The Technic Siege (5-9)
2-18 The Forbidden Furnace of Forgotten Koor (7-11)
5-10 Where Mammoth's Dar Not Tread (7-11)

Sunday 2/8 2-6pm
5-08 The Confirmation (1)
6-10 The Wounded Wisp (1-2)
#17 Perils of the Pirate Pact (1-7)
#55 The Infernal Vault (1-7)
6-01 Trial by Machine (1-5)
6-06 Hall of the Flesheaters (1-5)
6-12 TBA (1-5)
4-05 The Sanos Abduction (3-7)
6-09 By Way of Bloodcove (3-7)
6-11 The Slave Master's Mirror (3-7)
2-09 The Heresy of Man part III: Beneath Forgotten Sands (5-9)
#56 The Jester's Fraud (5-9)
6-07 Valley of the Veiled Flame (5-9)
6-04 Beacon Below (7-11)
6-13 TBA (7-11)

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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When we first went to the new model, I continued to print out the faction missions and asked, at the start of every session, if the players wanted to use them. I never once had a player say they wanted to do the missions, but most wanted the sheets for the additional information they could get on the challenges to come. Now some of those missions provided indirect information that the society couldn't possibly know or that it sounded more like a shot in the dark..."if you happened to run across ABC, or PDQ event happened to occur, make sure you do XYZ." Ridiculous. Some just came right out and told you who/what you were going to encounter. Sounds great, except that your only got said "juicy" info if you were lucky enough to have the "right" faction player at the table. Certainly did not support the idea of consistent play from table to table.

Anyway, after a short time, I stopped giving them out, even stopped bothering to print them. If there is actually important information on the mission sheet/s that the players need, but is otherwise not available, I will provide it during the course of the scenario. Otherwise, its at least a waste of paper and ink, or at worst a distraction from the main goals of the scenario which is exactly the reason we moved away from that model in the first place.

Personally, I think factions have evolved to the point of not even being necessary. I haven't had a single player reference their faction's annual goals. In fact, I would wager that I can count on one hand the number of players with whom I've played in the past year who even know or could tell me what their faction's goal is/was. It is unfortunate since the faction aspect is one of the things I liked best about PFS. IMO, they are having little to no impact on PFS and we could save some developer time and effort, not to mention valuable print-space, if we eliminated them and just focused on the Society's primary goals.

...and I am saddened to say it

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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I fail to see why this is being hashed out in the forums. We see posts all the time where a player bashes a GM or a GM complains about a "broken" character or disruptive GM. I just don't understand why these issues have to be aired-out in the forums.

In nearly every case, the OP is describing the situation from their perspective, often with selective memory, or at least skewed perspective (their own) or is unaware of some aspects of the situation that caused the other party to do what they did.

When you post these types of complaints in the forums, you get the same two types of responses. (1) one that sides with the OP as if everything they say is 100% accurate and complete, and they blast the other party for their failure. (2) a passive response, where the comments are "what-ifs" that try to speculate why what happened is what happened.

Why does it seem soo many players/GMs are unable/unwilling to just talk, face-to-face, to the person in question, express their feelings, and get feedback that will proceed to a resolution, or at least an understanding?

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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Isn't it interesting how we as players espouse rules/RAW when it comes to things like the GM sticking to tactics, not making things up, or adhering to the take 10 (or whatever) rules, but when it comes to things like wearing a shirt to earn a re-roll (RAW), we conveniently ignore it. Seems like sometimes we only like adjudication when its in our favor. Just an observation.

Grand Lodge ***** RPG Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

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With a little tactical forethought, you can mitigate may of the penalties he incurs.

Firing into melee? Delay and have your companions step back from the enemy after they have attacked.

Friendly cover in the way? Again, coordinated movement. Also, he's a ranger which should mean tracking and usually leading the party's formation. Firing with everyone behind you can mitigate the issue and then the melee'ers can charge in.

Its really no different than the struggles that other characters face. Merisiel depends heavily on flanking. Casters have to avoid companions or suffer collateral AoE damage. Clerics have to selectively channel or be careful where they stand so as to not provoke when trying to apply touch healing. Everyone has their subtle challenges to overcome. Often times, the complaints stem from lazy gaming.

I really don't want to fan the flames of pregen hate again. All, I'm saying is that too often the pregens are too harshly judged because they cannot just smash everything in the face until it coughs up loot.

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