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Raegos

Ravingdork's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 16,403 posts (16,768 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 7 aliases.


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Aelrinth: The behemoth hippo's base trample is 2d6, not 1d8, if only because that's what it says in its stat block.

I'm inclined to agree with most of the other stuff you said. And I was answering Demoyn's question based on the final numbers he he gave. Sorry to say I didn't check his initial numbers for accuracy.

You're right, it would be 8d8 base, 16d8 Vital Strike, and 24d8 Improved Vital strike--assuming no Improved Natural Attack.


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What am I missing? The only offensive abilities I recall were bonuses to combat maneuvers, which many people will tell you are a subpar option when compared to just killing your opponent more quickly.


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Demoyn wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Demoyn wrote:


Since improved natural attack isn't legal in PFS,...

It is legal with an approved source. You can qualify for it with two levels of Ranger or slayer and the Natural Weapon combat style.
Even if that's true, it's irrelevant to this discussion, as we're talking about a druid / barbarian.

Why couldn't a druid/barbarian also have levels in ranger or slayer? :P


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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If a colossal monster possesses the Improved Natural Attack feat, does it get any benefit?

For example, if such a monster has a natural attack that normally deals 4d6, does it's damage increase to 6d6? The progression shown clearly allows for it, and there is no apparent restriction on how far along the track it can potentially go, but the "...as if the creature's size had increased by one category" text gives me pause.

For official FAQing. Feel free to discuss it, but this thread really isn't meant to debate one side or the other.


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Generally, pages are added in sets of 4, since each spread that is printed takes up 2 pages and is double-sided. Adding 2 pages would essentially be an insert (good luck getting it to stay in!) and adding 1 page I guess would just be an insert which was only printed on one side (which is still like having two pages).


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Vital Strike would make it 24d8. IMPROVED Vital Strike makes it 36d8.


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Fixed Nudel's bite damage, which was being undervalued (if you can believe it).


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So this is what a Sean-less product looks like, eh? :P (Kidding)


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It's not worship at all. Ross is merely stating facts.

As a graphic designer by profession who used to work on newspaper and magazine layouts, I know exactly what he's talking about.


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Aelryinth wrote:

I just looked at your numbers.

You were 12d6 with INA, and INA plus rage.

You suddenly shot to 36d6 with strong jaw. So you suddenly went up 3 sizes instead of 2 with the spell.

I think the people seeing this fail to realize you could do the raw bit damage at level 8....and 12d6 + bonuses for a bite attack at 8th level isn't bad at all.

And strong jaw affects only a single natural attack, I think.

Strong Jaw: Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is.

So it effects all your natural attacks. Whether that applies to trample, is highly debatable.

Now that I've got a closer look at her, it looks like my numbers were off for her first two attack lines. I had her listed at 12d8 instead of 18d8.

A normal behemoth hippopotomus' bite attack comes in at a lofty 4d8 base damage (and they don't even have Improved Natural Attack), which is the highest single hit damage for its size of any animal currently printed. That means Nudel's base damage is 4d8 as well (huge). However, she does have Improved Natural Attack (unlike the normal behemoth hippopotamus), which increases it to 6d8 (gargantuan). Improved Vital Strike bumps that up to 18d8! Since she is considered gargantuan at this point, strong jaw doubles the damage to 12d8 (or 36d8 with Improved Vital Strike).

EDIT: Another interpretation is that her base bite damage with strong jaw is 12d8, or 36d8 with Improved Vital Strike

EDIT 2: A third interpretation is that her bite damage with Improved Vital Strike is 18d8+23, but then strong jaw doubles it to 36d8+46. That's even more powerful than what I have listed currently.

If anything, her non-strong jaw bites were being under-represented! In any case, regardless of which interpretation your GM subscribes too, she remains a powerful build.


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Aelryinth wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Nudel says your low numbers bite. (~310 damage in one chomp, every other round)

EDIT: And in the off rounds, she is still dealing ~180 damage a bite! Anybody care to run the DPR calculations on her? :D

Two errors on that build, unless I'm missing something.

1) Strong Jaw increases damage by two sizes. 12d6 -> 18d6 -> 24d6, not 36d6.

2)Trample damage is not bite damage and is unaffected by Strong Jaw.

Note: Your statement presumes you are rage cycling to do a Furious Finish every other round. Since you can't enter a rage while exhausted, and you're exhausted when you do the finish, how are you getting around that? I don't see exhaustion immunity in your build. I think you only get to do it 1/3 rounds (Rage round, exhausted for 2 rounds, rage round, etc). You may be exhausted the round you come out of rage, but that's not a full round of exhaustion, right? (Counting a round as both a rage round and an exhaustion round smacks of cheese).

==Aelryinth

Did you account for the Improved Natural Attack feat when you did the natural attack damage?

I probably misspoke. It likely is 1/3 rounds. I'll double check her various abilities once I get home to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Trample damage is based on a natural attack (usually slam I think). Strongjaw effects natural attacks. Ergo, it effects trample. Again, I will have to confirm once I get home as I don't have all my resources at work.


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I never understood why so many of the rogue's talents were limited to 1/day. If many more of them were usable at will, then the rogue might actually be a viable class.


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Nudel says your low numbers bite. (~310 damage in one chomp, every other round)

EDIT: And in the off rounds, she is still dealing ~180 damage a bite! Anybody care to run the DPR calculations on her? :D


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Yeah, those recharging spells really are useful for Numerian adventurers adventuring outside Numeria. Just don't target the battery and you're good to go.

My 7th-level magus, Jackal Maulsons, does this to power his Numerian dagger.


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Yeah. She still has terrible AC, something that could be easily corrected with enough levels and starting funds to get Craft Wondrous Items to buy/craft some more defensive gear (like an amulet of natural armor, bracers of armor and a ring of protection), but I felt that I have too many high level characters in the gallery already. So I found another way to keep her relatively safe (at least in open areas) while keeping her low level and making her "feel" awesome in play.

I may do some more work on her a little later. I feel that her ability scores could probably use some tweaking.


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???


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Upgraded Jevicca Dehlonna again since I was greatly troubled by her low armor class. I switched out one of some of her feats, as well as one of her domains in order to gain a roc animal companion.

She can now fly high in the sky, relatively safe from harm, while hurling lightning down upon her foes.


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So it should probably count against a character's starting wealth if they start a new character with impossible feat arrangements?


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Ssalarn wrote:
...and then accidentally shaved relevant information out of things like the Ecclesitheurge

I recently created a Ecclesitheurge without any apparent trouble. What relevant information is missing exactly?


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Torbyne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
What was so bad about the Lore Warden? It was one of the few fighter archetypes worth investing in.
I think he means in the sense that the archetype may very well replace the baseline variant of the class. As the other archetypes he mentions, such as the Daring Champion, are being considered better than the main class they emulate.

If that's the case, then I'm not seeing it. Lore Warden gives up the fighter's armor proficiencies (a big deal!) in return for knowledge skills and better combat maneuvers. That hardly invalidates the core fighter.


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What was so bad about the Lore Warden? It was one of the few fighter archetypes worth investing in.


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Artanthos wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Scavion has the right of it. Combining items is perfectly in line with the RAW, is not a house rule, and is hardly unbalanced.

Obviating the need for strength at the cost of 2000 gp, without giving up an item slot, is not unbalanced?

The choice between encumbrance or dedicating a slot to overcoming encumbrance is very much a limiting factor that prevents many builds from dumping strength down to 7 (or 5 with racial mods.) Allowing custom magic items to overcome this limit is something every GM should take a long, hard look at before permitting.

No, it is not unbalanced. The additional cost sees to that.


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Scavion has the right of it. Combining items is perfectly in line with the RAW, is not a house rule, and is hardly unbalanced.


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Zark wrote:

And why the heck do we get Extra channel and extra Hex from the APG in this book?

I was wondering about that myself. There are a handful of reprints for some odd reason.


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It's not really a house rule to combine magical items.


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I dunno. I haven't finished reading through it all yet (haven't even read all the classes). I got my digital copy, but I can't read it for long periods due to eyestrain, so I'm kind of holding off until I get my physical copy in the mail (which should be any day now).

I was considering making Balasar Frolo into an evil Investigator, and possibly the Dark Knight as well. May consider making Father Grigori into a Warpriest. Kirom Lancaster might become a Swashbuckler. There are several characters in the gallery whose concepts lend them well to the Slayer class. Others might maintain their current class, but pick up a new archetype somewhere along the way.

I'm having a hard time trying to determine which ones, if any, might make good Shamans or Skalds. Might not see any of those until I come up with a completely unique character.

I am open to suggestions as well. Which of the new classes do you think would fit an existing character and why?


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Can you use Pummeling Style with feats like Quick Bull Rush?


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graystone wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
What makes you guys think you can get extra attacks with Pummeling Style?

The feat. "Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack."

So you can add up all your attacks from either:
a full attack
a flurry of blows

Yes, but I often read about people using two-weapon fighting, brawler's flurry, haste, and other things that I'm not so certain work at all (since Pummeling Style is its own unique full round action).


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Why wouldn't you ever play a brawler?


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I'm surprised more people aren't FAQing this. I guess it's pretty clear that it doesn't stack with anything except flurry of blows then?

Tels wrote:

The multiclass restriction was removed in the ACG.

1) MoMS (Dragon Style), Feat of Choice
2) Brawler
3) Brawler (Pummeling Charge)
4) MoMS (Pummeling Charge)
5) Brawler (Dragon Ferocity)

Now, go forth and Kick Ass!

What's the point of getting it so early if you have no iterative attacks with which to use it? It doesn't look like it can be used with brawler's flurry, and master of many styles gives up flurry of blows.


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What makes you guys think you can get extra attacks with Pummeling Style?


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Yeah, when I resize my browser window, I find that some of the tables resize to fit while others remain static.


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*bump*


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Actually, it looks like the abilities themselves have exceptions:

If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.

If the arcanist already has an arcane school (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted the arcane school when determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school.

That takes precedent over the default rule mentioned above.

You only get the first level ability. All of this is readily apparent if you read the book.


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Each one of the [hybrid] classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).

It doesn't stack by default.


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Yes, the bookplate of recall is definitely a worthwhile investment. Hide your book in a tree, or bury it after preparing your spells, and call it only when you need it the next day.


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williamoak wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
If a player is smart, he will never pay more than 6,500gp for a copy of a spellbook.
I'd be curious to know about your "recommended 6,500gp spellbook" Ravingdork. Might be useful to know.

I was mistaken; it's actually 6,250gp. You use Craft Wondrous Items to make yourself a blessed book, which in turn allows you to scribe all of your spells into it FOR FREE.

Two such books is enough to hold every core wizard spell in the game and then some. Most wizards don't get to 7th-, 8th-, and 9th-level spells though, so you'll likely only need one to hold all your spells.

You can download my Spellbook Cost Calculator, one of the many great tools in my Crazy Character Gallery, and fiddle with the numbers yourself.

For example, I can tell you with absolute certainty that knowing every single 6th-level and lower core wizard spell in the game takes up 987 pages and will cost you 19,150gp in viewing costs (assuming 18 Intelligence at 1st-level and you already know free spells equivalent to a 12th-level wizard). Tack on another 12,500gp and you've only spent 32,050gp (~1/4 your starting funds at 12th) to know all the core spells you can cast AND have a backup book of all of said spells.


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The header style for the sleeves of many garments is absent. [link]

I brought this up earlier in this thread shortly after it was put into the PRD and I am dismayed to see it still hasn't been fixed.


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If a player is smart, he will never pay more than 6,500gp for a copy of a spellbook.


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When I first read it I thought "What!? They can get a metamagic feat or item creation feat every other level in addition to their own general feats and class abilities!? That's totes broken!"

Then I found out they could only do that once each, not once every other level.

But I've seen other people claiming the same thing, so I'm putting it here so they too can realize the truth.


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That has nothing to do with the question I asked, aceDiamond and Ssalarn.

I hadn't even considered haste, KutuluKultist. Thanks for bringing it up. An interesting point to be sure.


14 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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The Pummeling Style feat from the Advanced Class Guide says "As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch."

Does this mean it can't be used with two-weapon fighting, flurry of blows, brawler's flurry, and similar abilities? It uses the exact same wording as Spring Attack and similar feats, which definitely don't combine with much.

What about Power Attack and other abilities that augment attacks? Can they be used with Pummeling Style?

This thread for FAQing and discussing.


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Imbicatus wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Is this something you can use with Two-Weapon Fighting, flurry of blows, or brawler's flurry?
Yes.

Still, Pummeling Style appears to be its own full round action and therefore is unable to be combined with anything other than a standard full attack. Makes me wonder what kinds of things it can't be combined with.


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Malwing wrote:
Another knee-jerk reaction when I got the actual book; Holy hell is this book skinny. I feel like it could have expanded on the archetypes for everyone and made a fatter book. How rushed was this book?

You're joking right? According to my PDF, it is 258 pages. That's about half as thick as the Core Rulebook, which seems pretty standard for a supplemental book.

kBro wrote:

Canny Tumble sounds familiar...

Oh, I know why, it already exists :

** spoiler omitted **

Sure, the two stack, but Canny Tumble is just inferior to what already exists.

I too noticed--and am annoyed--by this.


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Is this something you can use with Two-Weapon Fighting, flurry of blows, or brawler's flurry?


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I've seen a great many groups play it the way the OP describes. It's perfectly fine, provided they are basing their decisions on in-game observations (and yes, a spellcaster knowing that his spells tend to be more effective against certain targets is perfectly acceptable).


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"It's alive!"

(Raise dead or greater spell.)


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I was most surprised to see my name come up while working my way down the list . :P

I have been in so many of these discussions over the years, that I had forgotten that I had said anything of the sort.


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I believe that telekinetic and force effects would not be halved, but would be reduced.

Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

Seems like you should always animate a stone wall or door, as it will be immune to weapon damage save for the pick or hammer (which I find few adventurers carry).


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The rings of wizardry is definitely what you're looking for.

Those runestones of power (Advanced Class Guide) also allow you to recall spent spell slots.

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