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Raegos

Ravingdork's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 20,538 posts (21,670 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 11 aliases.


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But if it's part of the weapon, would it not go wherever the weapon goes? It's not like the blade disappears, leaving you with a hilt. The entire weapon goes away then returns in full.


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Um...why would the lace be considered destroyed?


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And a whole lot more if you take Spell Perfection and lay on the metamagic (especially if you have the magical lineage trait).

Empower Spell
Intensify Spell
Maximize Spell

9th-level spell slot that deals (135 + [15d6+45]/2) damage followed by one with...

Empower Spell
Intensify
Quicken Spell

...for another (15d6+45*1.5) damage.

You might even be able to take it further with a metamagic rod in hand.


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That's not the point. The point is there can't be any physical contact whatsoever once he hits 3rd-level.

Isn't that somewhat necessary to be able to adventure together successfully?


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Rysky wrote:

There is still no "disease aura" though, he'd have to touch, bite, cough on, or use his touch of curruption + cruelty in order to infect some one else.

That all falls into PVP when it's directed at party members.

Again, it's not the class, it's the player.

Touch works both ways, friend. Nobody can even heal him with cure spells (or use any other touch range spell on him) without exposing themselves.


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Diseases have their own rules for spreading. If he has several diseases, he doesn't need some kind of offensive aura to spread them; they do that all on their own. Some might require a bite, others contact, and still others far less.

If he contracts leprosy, the shakes, and slimy doom, for example; then anyone trying to heal him via touch risks contracting all three!

And that assumes that any inhaled diseases he contracts don't create an airborne cloud of death about him. If the GM goes by that interpretation, just being nearby could ultimately prove to be quite lethal.


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Aren't reusable spell traps still around in Pathfinder?


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Daw wrote:
Your prestidigitation cantrip keeps erasing itself from your spellbook.

I don't get it.


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I have seen it used to devastating effect against humanoid PCs and NPCs several times. It rarely ever works well on big monsters though.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
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Baron Harkonnen would be an amazing character concept for Hell's Vengeance though!


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Jivan, the Dreamer wrote:

Harrow Chosen

Fortune Teller
Messenger of Fate
Dew of Lunary

What are those feats?

EDIT: Never mind. Found them anyways. Thank you for this! These are exactly the kinds of options I was looking for!

Harrow Chosen - Trait
Fortune Teller - Feat
Messenger of Fate - Feat
Dew of Lunary - Alchemy Reagent


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Huh. I've always interpreted it as stacking, and I'm certainly not the only one. I've seen a number of threads suggesting that over the years.

RobRendell wrote:

Perhaps your GM rolled two wandering monster encounters and got Shambling Mound and Will-o-wisp and decided that they've teamed up? There might be an invisible Will-o-wisp near the Shambling Mound zapping it every round. Or perhaps it's not doing so willingly - the Shambling Mound enveloped the Will-o-wisp and decided to hang on to it because of the lovely electricity.

We've encountered will'o'wisps before, and they have become quite the nuisance (even luring a hydra into our camp while we slept), but I'm fairly certain we've since wiped them out in the area.

Also, according to the GM, it's a shocking weapon stuck in the monster, apparently. He expects us to retrieve it by "grappling the shambler."

That's totally going to end well. *rolls eyes*


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Otagian wrote:
Antipaladin abilities pretty explicitly only work on enemies...

Plague Bringer (Ex): At 3rd level, the powers of darkness make an antipaladin a beacon of corruption and disease. An antipaladin does not take any damage or take any penalty from diseases. He can still contract diseases and spread them to others, but he is otherwise immune to their effects.

Where is it explicitly stated exactly? Even if we solve all the out-of-game problems, the character's very existence still puts the other characters at risk.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Antipaladin is best, especially the Lawful Evil one from Agents of Evil.

How does the party survive the walking plague that is the antipaladin in the long run???


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So the Hell's Vengeance Player's Guide recommends that antipaladin as one of its class/archetype choices. What I want to know is how this is supposed to work in anything that isn't PvP?

One of our players has opted to take that path, sadly.

Our first game was pretty bad overall. The antipaladin player was never supposed to have been part of the game in the first place, but I guess he either coerced the GM into getting in, or she invited him out of feelings of guilt. Either way, he spent the night criticizing my brother's character choices, criticizing my (real-world) religion, and actively causing chaos everywhere he went for no other reason than to annoy my friend's Hell Knight (a "law is all" Judge Dredd concept).

If that wasn't enough, he openly bragged about how powerful he was going to become, and how "you all better have good Fortitude saves, because I'm infecting all of you in a couple of levels!"

I understand that there is a lot of out-of-game things that need to be dealt with here, and I intend to talk to the GM about it, but what I really want to discuss is the following:

How does a party ever survive having an anti-paladin in it for long? Even if he chose to play the more controlled LE tyrant archetype (he didn't), then he would still be a walking, talking, festering plague factory that passively weakens everyone in the group just by being there. How does the party even begin to deal with that? How could an antipaladin ever be anything other than a loner?


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Covent wrote:
Varsarian Tattoo?

Doesn't cover divination, sadly, so it doesn't help me boost my mind thrust spell.


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What the hell is going on here?

Is this, or anything remotely like it, actually in the Kingmaker adventure path? Or is my GM just crazy enough to throw a super charged up shambler at us? Damn thing is using shocking grasp against us as attacks of opportunity for Pete's sake! What on earth is going on?


The inner voice within your ear
Powergaming DM wrote:
OK I will just tell you there is a +1 spear of shocking in the mound.

I suppose that's better than those infernal will-o'-wisps!

Shame I can't simply mage hand it out of there.


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What's wrong with getting a pearl of power or two and recasting it to last all day? They're like 500gp each to craft.


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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
1. One concern I have is whether your GM will let Gifted Adept and Spell Specialization for Mind Thrust I upgrade to future levels of Mind Thrust. It's not a given.

I haven't discussed it with the GM yet, but I can always retrain if I need to.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
2. That said, I don't like Mind Thrust because I don't like damage, and while it bypasses elemental resistances, it's mind affecting and only single target. The latter versions have very weak add on debuffs (one round of fatigue? seriously?) until Mind Thrust VI and that one round stun, but if you expect your target to fail a mind affecting save why would you choose to do damage rather than Dominate or Hold it?

Casting time. More utility at lower levels.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
A Psychic can be really good at save or sucks. Spell Focus in Enchantment or Illusion, Overwhelming Mind phrenic amplification when you really need to land them and need an extra DC boost.

I will certainly keep that in mind.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

3. Self Perfection isn't as a great discipline as you think unless you really want to buff others with those bonus spells. You're only getting +1 to +3 to AC bonus at reasonable lower levels, so why not just wear some cheap armor without an ACP? The self heal (HP) is weak, the self restoration/cures can be nice if you don't have a cleric I guess. The phrenic pool replenishment is easy, but limited at early levels.

For Hell's Vengeance I'd probably prefer Pain or Abomination thematically. Pain has better self heals for most purposes than Self Perfection, Abomination has a protective mode that also boosts your DCs for landing save or suck/loses. Rebirth doesn't have great spells, but lets you grab a free floating off list spell for off-time utility and flexibility or adventuring day Sorc/Wizard offense if you want that.

I'm surprised to see this. The psychic guides spoke very highly of the discipline due to its ability to jack up the AC and self-heal/condition-removal abilities. I actually do plan on wearing armor at low levels once I can get some, but the AC Bonus class ability will be damn useful at later levels once I am able to start jacking up my Dexterity and Wisdom scores more.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
4. You don't get feats, but you do get Phrenic amplifications. Do you want to affect undead, cut through spell resistance, or boost your mind affecting DCs? Those are usually the obvious three to choose from early, although I'm guessing undead is the last choice in a campaign most focused on good supported by outsiders. Do complementary feats, such as Spell Focus and Persistent Spell to go with Overpowering Mind amplification or Spell Penetration to go with Relentless Casting if you want to ignore outsider SR early.

I'm not too worried about undead. I don't expect there will be many, if any, in Hell's Vengeance. If anyone knows otherwise, I sure wouldn't mind a general warning though.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
5. Learn and leverage the best Psychic only or early access spells. Suggestion is level 2 for you as a full caster. Create Mindscape allows non-line or sight or effect assassinations. Etheric Shards is a great crowd control against mooks without DR or healing. Etc. You also get some good Bard or Witch only spells, be sure to take a look at Ill Omen if you go the save or suck route.

I like create mindscape and instigate psychic duel, but there's a whole butt load of rules associated with them, that I don't think my GM will want to take the time to learn. (She didn't even bother to read our character bios before starting the first game.)

Serisan wrote:
My PFS psychic, level 14. He's a much more generic caster given that he's for organized play, so I can't make the assumption that there will be a wizard or similar at the table to take care of the other extensive needs.

Thanks for the example!

Serisan wrote:
I cannot speak highly enough about Will of the Dead. It is truly wonderful at filling holes in coverage. It also allows for interesting mid to late game utility - any undead you come across can suddenly be affected by Feeblemind, for instance, and have a resultant loss in HP that's pretty significant. While I haven't read Hell's Vengeance, I would expect that there are likely places where undead could pop up as side enemies. Given that your primary focus is a mind-affecting spell, this could be a significant utility for you. The only easy-to-skip phrenic power to swap would be Defensive Prognostication, though.

Defensive Prognostication can increase my AC for several rounds at higher levels though. Seems like a good choice, short of my changing my build around.

Serisan wrote:
Logical Remove Fear is one of your most important defensive options in the mid-level range until you can get Intellect Fortress I and afford the slots for it. 7 seems like a reasonable choice for when to get Logical Spell based on your chosen specialization and the craft wonderous selection. The big thing is just remembering to take the spell. Until then, make sure to have potions or scrolls of it available.

If I succumb to a fear effect and am frightened or panicked, how do I cast logical remove fear? Aren't my actions dictated at that point? Except for instances of being shaken, I'm not sure how useful this would be.

Serisan wrote:

I'm up in the air about Gifted Adept vs Magical Lineage. ML is going to have a significant impact once you begin using more metamagic feats. You have a lot of them in your line-up. Just something to consider.

Yeah. I'm on the fence on that one too. Think I'm going to bank on the lower level game though, since most of our games don't survive to those higher levels.


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If that's true, then it might get awkward when the guards ask your party and your familiar to disarm. :P


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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Not needing to roll to maintain would make an already overpowered spell utterly ridiculous.

That's an argument against balance, not against the spell's text. We're discussing rules, not balance here.


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I have just started playing a level one shabti psychic (see link below) with the self-perfection discipline in Hell's Vengeance. Hardly optimal, I know, but the idea of playing a character that exists solely to suffer eternally in place of someone else in the afterlife in a setting chock full of damned NPCs was too good a concept to pass up. I have also never played a psychic before, and was interested in seeing what they could do.

The more I think about the long game, the more I have trouble deciding where I want the character to go mechanically. Psychics get no bonus feats, and I'm not human, so I'm basically as feat starved as one can possibly get. What's more, there isn't a whole lot synergy with their class abilities and other rules of the game.

So far, I have taken Spell Focus (divination) and the Gifted Adept (mind thrust) trait. I also plan on taking Spell Specialization (mind thrust) at 3rd-level.

I really want to be a "mind thrust specialist" I'm thinking, but the above, plus an orange prism ioun stone and Spell Perfection in the later game (which may never happen) is all that I can think of to boost it. I was also considering taking Bloatmage Initiate, but then I realized I would lose my AC bonus class ability in addition to the feat's already steep penalties.

Any help boosting my ability with mind thrust would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also open to ideas for alternate paths if you have any suggestions.

Here is my character sheet as it stands now.

Here is the progression that I am currently considering, but am not altogether happy with yet.


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Started a FAQ thread to address the apparent contradiction in the rules.


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Talonhawke wrote:
As I threw in on one of the other threads the ARG example for the orc gunslinger also would be incorrect since it assumes he took 20 levels for an ability he can't get till lvl 3.

Apparently there are other areas where the rules contradict Occult Adventures.

captain yesterday wrote:
Jeez, let's start ten threads about it.

I've started two threads, one for discussion, and one for FAQing. That's hardly ten. *rolls eyes*


31 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
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For FAQing, not discussion. Please discuss here. The rules in the the Advanced Player's Guide for favored class bonuses contradict those found in Occult Adventures.

Advanced Player's Guide, Page 9, paragraph 3 [PRD Link]

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
For example, a dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level rogue).

Occult Adventures, Page 84, paragraph 4, last two sentences. [PRD Link]

Occult Adventures wrote:
If an alternate favored class option modifies a class feature or ability, it can't be taken before the character has that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a class feature at 6th level, a character couldn't take a racial favored class option that applies to that class feature until 6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn't be high enough to add a bonus until a later level.

Which rule is supposed to be correct? Which is intended to take precedent?


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Melkiador wrote:
Clearly when this example was written, the intent was different than the current intent.

Clearly.

A fine example of how the developers change the rules, then forum goers who want to feel "right" claim that "it was like that all along."

Been seeing it over and over again for years.


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I've already included Spell Specialization. I'm looking for further boosts.


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STEALTH ERRATA!

Due to new stealth errata released with Occult Adventures, the following characters have had their favored class bonuses altered:

Cracked Man, The (19th-level human creationist)
Heathcliff, the Blood Knight (12th-level human Aldori Swordlord)
Hesbra Dehlonna (6th-level gnome witch doctor)
Nudel the Devourer (15th-level half orc nature guardian)
Vallairs Urn (6th-level half-drow underdark druid)

I also updated the formatting of Shisio Dafoe (20th-level samsaran abjurant champion), so that the text isn't so small.


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Ah. Thanks!


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Snowblind wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Thanks. So basically human paladins can never increase their energy resistance, since they never had it to begin with. Gotcha.

(Lame rule is lame.)

???

That's not what the rules say at all.

The Human Favored Class Bonus for Paladins doesn't apply to a Paladin class feature, so the quoted rule is completely irrelevant.

Scenarios where the rule would apply are things like a human gaining 1/6th of a rogue talent with their racial FCB. Since the rogue doesn't get talents till 2nd level, they can't take the racial FCB at first level. If you want to talk about paladins specifically, FCBs involving auras can't be taken till 3rd level, FCBs involving Lay on Hands can't be taken till 3rd level, FCBs involving spellcasting can't be taken until 4th, and so on. FCBs which give their own unique thing and don't ride off existing class features can be taken at any time.

It says class feature OR ability though. That covers quite a lot of non-class abilities.


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Paradozen wrote:
If you read it as Class Feature or (generic) Ability...

This is exactly how I read it.


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CBDunkerson wrote:

Page 84, paragraph 4, last two sentences.

Also, right here

"If an alternate favored class option modifies a class feature or ability, it can't be taken before the character has that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a class feature at 6th level, a character couldn't take a racial favored class option that applies to that class feature until 6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn't be high enough to add a bonus until a later level."

So, human paladins can no longer take the energy resistance option since they never had it to begin with? Hurrah for stealth errata!

I'm pretty sure this wasn't the law of the land before, but as of the release of Occult Adventures, it's certainly official now.

*head desk*


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Thanks. So basically human paladins can never increase their energy resistance, since they never had it to begin with. Gotcha.

(Lame rule is lame.)


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Ah f%+~! Now I have to redo the favored class bonuses for over 150 characters. What page? What paragraph?


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dragonhunterq wrote:
It is not exhaustive, you are under the effects of a medium load. Those are just the immediate consequences, as listed under the carrying capacity rules. It won't list other incidental impacts as there would be far too many - such as inability to acrobatics through a threatened square.

You sure? The spell then goes on to tell you exactly what those effects are. Wouldn't that indicate it is an exhaustive list?

Anyways, if you're right, then that certainly is a crummy feat! Is there any way around it? Such as another feat or ability that lets you ignore the effects of a medium load?


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Bloatmage Initiate wrote:
Unfortunately, the side effects cause you to be constantly under the effects of a medium load—your maximum bonus to AC from Dexterity is +3, you gain an armor check penalty of –3, and your speed decreases as appropriate (generally from 30 feet to 20 feet for a Medium creature).

The en dash has left me to wonder if the list of penalties mentioned is an exhaustive list. Is it?

Do I have to worry about other medium load interactions, or just those mentioned above?

For example, I am considering taking Bloodmage Initiate with my self-perfection discipline psychic in order to boost my Mind Thrust damage, but I fear that I will lose access to my AC bonus class ability.


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You can ignore anything that isn't a Crafting Feat.

Exceptions being Craft Construct, where you also must meet the caster level, and spell trigger/spell completion/potion items, where the spell being duplicated must be provided by someone.


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CWheezy wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The black tentacles spell says that the tentacles deal damage with a successful check to maintain the grapple. It never really says that the tentacles let go if they fail the check though. So...are the victims only able to escape on their turn?

Uhhh, normally your questions are pretty good.

What happened today?

The word "maintain" doesn't even appear in the spell description. So it made me wonder if you even needed to make any such check.

It only talks about checks to deal damage, not to maintain. The spell also says creatures can't move until THEY can break the grapple. That implies that they can only break out on their turn, rather than the caster's turn.

I don't really see it as a poor question at all.


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The black tentacles spell says that the tentacles deal damage with a successful check to maintain the grapple. It never really says that the tentacles let go if they fail the check though. So...are the victims only able to escape on their turn?


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Demiurge 1138 wrote:
The insinuation from Into the Darklands has been that, at least in Pathfinder, they're human refugees from Earthfall who fled underground and were warped by exposure to the Plane of Shadow. So they're human-like, mostly, but pale and wiry. Stunted, in the case of dark creepers.

I thought that was fetchlings, and that darkfolk were something else entirely.


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You've marked Intuitive Spell as orange. Shouldn't it be red?

Why on earth would you spend a full round action to remove the -10 Concentration penalty, when you can just spend a move action and a standard action to remove the penalty without having to increase the spell slot? This feat actually makes you WORSE at what you could already do if you use it.


The inner voice within your ear

I always state I'm moving before moving my pawn. Or did you mean something else?


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4mb4r4b4 wrote:

When playing a wizard my spellbook is not so in sight that you can throw an arrow at it.

I like the idea of target the spell pouch, but this plan is not quite ineffective against spellcasters with Eschew Materials feat?

I play the same way. I also carry multiple spell component pouches on myself and my companions, just in case. One should also be aware that using this kind of strategy on NPCs opens it up as fair play for the GM to use on you. Many GMs won't play that way by default, because they know it's not fun for most players, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.

For spellcasters with things like Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell, there aren't too many options short of killing them. I remember there was a thread a while back about how to imprison sorcerers. The general consensus was that it couldn't be done, at least not without extraordinary effort and expense. I think the best idea thrown out was to petrify them via flesh to stone and store them somewhere for the length of their term.


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I'm trying to find ways to boost my caster level with mind thrust for my psychic. Unfortunately, many of the tried and true methods (Varissian Tattoo, Outlander trait, etc.) only work for arcane casters, not psychic casters.

So far I have the gifted adept trait, and will be picking up Spell Specialization. At high levels, I guess I can get Spell Perfection to double the former feat's effect, as well as an orange prism ioun stone. Is there anything else I can do?


The inner voice within your ear

Aside from the martials, the most damaging thing we have available to us are magic missiles.


The inner voice within your ear

Anyone up for attempting a disarm or steal maneuver?


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Strictly speaking, I don't think there is a benefit for having more than one helper.

CC is a weird feat anyhow. Say you and your buddy wanted to craft four cloaks of resistance for the party. It takes you just as much time with the feat to finish all four as it does without the feat. The only difference is that someone gets a cloak a little bit earlier if you have the feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh wow. I could have sworn it said saves.

Oh well. There are still plenty of 1-round effects that work similarly, so the question is still quite pertinent.


The inner voice within your ear

I take it, it is not immediately visible then? I don't think we can go rummaging through the mound anymore than we could someone's internal organs.

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