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Raegos

Ravingdork's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 18,586 posts (19,429 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 8 aliases.


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Wang Fire wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Where does water get energy attacks? All the basic blasts I looked at appeared to be physical. Even some of the later stuff that added energy damage, still required an attack roll as opposed to a touch attack roll.
I based my statement off the playtest document, but isn't cold blast part of water element in the final version?

My mistake. I must have been thinking of some of the later ice powers, many of which aren't touch attacks.


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Axebeak Sanctuary Society wrote:
Just as with any Companion, you compare its natural reach to its Bestiary entry.

This is what I do, and believe it to be the intention. Nor do I believe this to be especially FAQ worthy.


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Axebeak Sanctuary Society wrote:
Just as with any Companion, you compare its natural reach to its Bestiary entry.

This is what I do, and believe to be the intention.


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This seems pedantic to me.


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Insain Dragoon wrote:

A lot of particularly complicated classes usually become a lot simpler when you actually make a character.

Sometimes the act of making a character sheet makes it worlds simpler.

I totally agree with this sentiment.


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Where does water get energy attacks? All the basic blasts I looked at appeared to be physical. Even some of the later stuff that added energy damage, still required an attack roll as opposed to a touch attack roll.


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I'm thinking it's likely air. Early on, it allows you to have a physical attack, an energy attack, great range and flight. It's pretty hard to beat a flying sniper hundreds of feet away who can snake attacks past your cover and deflect your ranged retaliation away from himself.


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Can you merge them and still have them appear in both places (kind fo like when you move a thread, a link for it still appears in its original forum)? Both forums seem topic appropriate to me.

If that can't be done, then I'd be inclined to leave them alone.


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LazarX wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
LazarX wrote:


For you, doesn't that usually translate into "Gold mine for corner interpretations of rules I need to work out?"

Did you really come into this thread only to attack ravingdork? Do you have a personal vendetta against him?

I have never attacked RD personally. He's mellowed out a bit lately but those who know his posting history will acknowledge that he's shaved RAW very tightly to argue for some questionable corner interpretations.

If you feel that I ever meant it personally, RD. Know that it was never intended to be so.

I didn't really take offense to your post in this thread. It's totally true that I get excited about the possible rules vaguaries. The only time people's comments bother me is either 1) when it is a direct attack against me, or 2) it is something that might hurt the chances of my getting a worthwhile answer.

I am a little curious to know what you meant by "mellowed out" though. I've not observed that myself.


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Alric Rahl wrote:

If people really are having a hard time doing the math on pen and paper then switch to hero lab. A couple of clicks and the math you have to do in your head is done for you. There are always easier ways to do things. They could of done it easier in editing but it's too late for that now, the book is printed and shipped, why are you complaining about something that can't be changed.

Now that the book is printed there are still ways to make it easier, such as hero lab.

Instead of criticizing the work or the writing, or complaining about something that can't be changed now, why don't you talk about what you liked about the class, and help people understand it by writing something about the ability you feel is a simpler explanation.

Except it can make things better, either in later prints, or in future products.

Also, criticizing someone's attempt to make a product better isn't really a good standard to be setting.

What's more, not everyone can (or are willing to) pay for Hero Lab. Last I heard, they charge you for each book you want to use in the program. I have better places for my money to go than the doubling of my roleplaying budget.


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Oh, it seems you can get the 7th- and 15th-level wild talents through Expanded Element. I guess that's where the extra talents are supposed to come from.

*facepalm*

EDIT: Ninja'd!


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That's certainly an option. Thanks!


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
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While in the process of trying to make a 6th-level kineticist, I realized that I couldn't take the 3rd-level infusion I wanted (even though my character meets the prerequisite of being twice its level) because the next opportunity to get it is 9th-level, not 6th or 7th.

Why is that? That makes it so there is literally no difference whatsoever between a 3rd-, 4th-, and 5th-level infusions except for their DCs and Concentration modifiers.

It also means a person can't get a low-level infusion, like the Snake form infusion wild talent (mouth full!), until 9th-level!

At first I thought, well I'll just retrain the class ability at 6th-level to get it then. Except the retraining rules only cover specific class abilities, and Occult Adventures doesn't seem to really go into that at all.

Then I thought maybe there is a built in switching mechanic, like how sorcerers switch out spells known. When I looked into it, however, the next available opportunity to switch out an infusion was 11th-level!

Next, I recalled that there was an Extra Wild Talent feat that would allow me to get it at 6th (since we all know that feats can definitely be retrained). However, when I looked that up I then found that the feat only allows for certain wild talents that are 2 levels lower than your maximum! That means I would only be able to get another 1st-level infusion or utility at 6th-level!

Why is it so hard to get a low-level infusion? Shouldn't there also be one at 7th- and 15th-level? Those gaps really muck things up! You'll end up with people essentially skipping over the low-level 3rd- and 4th-level infusions altogether in order to go straight for the more powerful 5th-level infusions (or the 5th- and 7th-level infusions for the 9th-level infusions for that higher level gap).

Why do those gaps exist? What could possibly be the design philosophy behind having them? Is it an error? The iconic kineticist Yoon is only 7th-level, and yet has a 3rd-level infusion...somehow (she also appears to have too many infusions). Please say it is a mistake and we are supposed to be able to get them sooner than 9th-level!


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While in the process of trying to make a 6th-level kineticist, I realized that I couldn't take the 3rd-level infusion I wanted (even though my character meets the prerequisite of being twice its level) because the next opportunity to get it is 9th-level, not 6th or 7th.

Why is that? That makes it so there is literally no difference whatsoever between a 3rd-, 4th-, and 5th-level infusions except for their DCs and Concentration modifiers.

It also means a person can't get a low-level infusion, like the Snake form infusion wild talent (mouth full!), until 9th-level!

At first I thought, well I'll just retrain the class ability at 6th-level to get it then. Except the retraining rules only cover specific class abilities, and Occult Adventures doesn't seem to really go into that at all.

Then I thought maybe there is a built in switching mechanic, like how sorcerers switch out spells known. When I looked into it, however, the next available opportunity to switch out an infusion was 11th-level!

Next, I recalled that there was an Extra Wild Talent feat that would allow me to get it at 6th (since we all know that feats can definitely be retrained). However, when I looked that up I then found that the feat only allows for certain wild talents that are 2 levels lower than your maximum! That means I would only be able to get another 1st-level infusion or utility at 6th-level!

Why is it so hard to get a low-level infusion? Shouldn't there also be one at 7th- and 15th-level? Those gaps really muck things up! You'll end up with people essentially skipping over the low-level 3rd- and 4th-level infusions altogether in order to go straight for the more powerful 5th-level infusions (or the 5th- and 7th-level infusions for the 9th-level infusions for that higher level gap).

Why do those gaps exist? What could possibly be the design philosophy behind having them? Is it an error? The iconic kineticist Yoon is only 7th-level, and yet has a 3rd-level infusion...somehow (she also appears to have too many infusions). Please say it is a mistake and we are supposed to be able to get them sooner than 9th-level!


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Is there no one else?


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
The Kineticist is designed to have versatility only outmatched by a Vancian caster; I don't think you could make it less complex without losing a lot of what makes the class great.
I can understand the just using "simple blast" or "form infusion." Truth be told, that's how I had it after the design passes. Putting the full name with wild talent every time is something the editors do to make it easier to understand. If it's actually making it harder, it's good feedback that I can tell the editors next time we're in a similar situation.

I feel it would have been enough to have state that blasts, defense, infusions (and its two sub-categories), and utility were all different types of wild talents. Would have saved a bit of page space too probably.

But when it says things like "infusion wild talent" and "form wild talent" I start thinking of them as being in the "wild talent" group, not the latter being in another subgroup of the former.


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Quandary wrote:

I would still take it on the right character, i.e. one with already decent/good if not OMG-amazing Saves,

i.e. i already expect to pass most saves, but for the one that i do fail, i can use this 1/day option.

This doesn't work. You have to use it BEFORE you roll (another new limitation people seem to forget about). That means you use it, roll a natural 20, and come to the realization that you've just wasted your once per day ability.


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Will'o'wisps (CR 6) against any party unable to cast see invisibility and/or fly.

What's worse, these guys are cunning, often luring the party into other hazards prior to attacking, or else luring other, more dangerous monsters straight into the party's camp while they sleep at night; things like that.


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I have a hard copy in my hands now, that Paizo sent me in the mail. What do you mean "after it's release?" Is it not released yet? (I wouldn't have quoted anything if I didn't think thousands of other people were getting their hands on it as well.)


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Ah, I see. Totes lamo.


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I recall the rules on touch spells and held charges being in the book, not the FAQ.


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Thanks for the clarification, Mark. :D

When the time is more appropriate, is it possible you could restore those posts, so people can reference them later if need be?


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If you cast the spell in the previous round (generally a standard action for most touch spells), then you can attack with it in following rounds as an attack action or full attack action. What's more, you don't have to declare whether it is an attack action or a full attack action until after your first attack with the charge. Therefore, if you hit, you can still take your move action. However, if you miss, you still have the charge and have the option of continuing to strike with the held charge with your iterative attacks (until you run out of attacks or discharge the spell).

The above is clearly stated in the RAW and is pretty much indisputable.

Touching yourself with an already held charge, on the other hand, isn't well covered in the rules (at all). Best to hit the FAQ button on the post above mine, or to ask your GM. Personally, I'd like to think it's NOT another standard action. The standard action was already spent to cast the spell.


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LazarX wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Lord Foul II wrote:
I think it's an interesting class personally
Oh yeah, they totally nailed it on that aspect. I'm merely worried about the technical complexities.
For you, doesn't that usually translate into "Gold mine for corner interpretations of rules I need to work out?"

Paizo keeps me quite busy. There is certainly getting to be less and less time in the day. XD


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I'm not seeing how this change would prevent something like a bite attack. I totally understand it disallowing your other claw attack though.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Supercharge isn't a new ability, it's an upgrade to Gather Power. All the normal restrictions apply.

Can you show me where all the normal restrictions would continue to apply? I'm not seeing where that is expressly spelled out in Supercharge. (I suspect you're right, it's just not clearly written and could probably use some official clarification.)

Also, it is both a new ability and an upgrade. As written, how can we be certain the expansion of additional powers isn't part of the "upgrade?"

CalethosVB wrote:
Doesn't Gather Power apply to only blast talents? So why would it work for utility talents here?

Because utility powers aren't referenced. Instead, it continually references "wild talents", which is a much broader group of powers.


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Lord Foul II wrote:
I think it's an interesting class personally

Oh yeah, they totally nailed it on that aspect. I'm merely worried about the technical complexities.


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Vrischika111 wrote:

I really like RD's chars and the way he builds them.

but to me this is the proof that lots of things needed the nerf.

if 75% of the chars were having divine protection : then it's too good.
(regardless of background)
if 50% of the chars were using spell consumption the whole day : it's too good.
if a feat is really good for you, whatever is your build, then it's too good.

Just wanted people to know that 75% of my characters didn't have divine protection; it was more like two. Nor was was there any evidence that any of the arcanist characters used spell consumption all day.

I know that's not necessarily what you said, Vrischika111, I just wanted to avoid any possible confusion or incidental misrepresentation of my character gallery.

Your last statement, as has been said, just isn't a good metric to stand by. You want feats to be really good for you, but not necessarily must haves (the former makes characters more fun, the latter actually limits your options).


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Congratulations to Paizo on making the most complicated class to date. Between the playtest and the final version, I had to read the class entry over no less than six times before it started to click. Between the redundant terminologies (wild talent this and wild talent that, pseudokinesis this and pseudokinesis that), the constant back and forth caused by all the "see page X for [this class' abilities]", and all the big sciency words, it's no wonder it took even an accomplished reader such as myself so long to wrap their head around it. God forbid someone with dyslexia wants to play this class!

Did anyone else have trouble making sense of its class abilities upon their first (or even second and third) read through?

Even now, I can't help but think it's stats will be ever evolving as it gains and loses burn, slowing the game down as everyone tries to figure out what all the new numbers are.

Does anyone else think the class could have been simplified (in the way it was written, if not in the way it was designed as well) and made more efficient. If so, how?

It looks like a great class that covers a lot of cool character concepts, and I can't wait to try it out, but I'm left to wonder about the quality of its execution. I think more thought could have gone into making it an easier read. For example, having more defined game terms for its class abilities might have made things a little bit easier to grasp I think. Instead of constantly saying everything's full name (blast wild talent, infusion wild talent, form infusion wild talent, utility wild talent, etc.; quite the mouthful to say the least) they could have just used the base names most of the time (blast, infusion, utility, etc.) to avoid misreadings and misunderstandings.


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Joe Hex wrote:
Is it weird for a grown man to want a stuffed Owlbear? Because I totally do.

Ask and ye shall receive.


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andreww wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
If they EVER touch Spell Perfection, I'm throwing in the towel and leaving Paizo forever. No joke.

It's a powerful caster option that they don't need in any way shape or form which martials cant make much/any use of outside maybe Magi so it's probably safe. The fact that it only impacts high level play makes it even more so.

It is still a stupidly strong feat.

Which requires you to be 15th-level and have no less than three prerequisite feats. A four feat chain that only 15th-level characters can get SHOULD be strong. It's really no different in power level than a martial's Stunning Assault feat.


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Anzyr wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

.

I love that Paizo avoifds "must have" feats. I personally hate thinking "WHELP MAKING A ROGUE, NEED THAT TWIST AWAY". I would like to have options.

*cough*Spell Perfection*cough*

If they EVER touch Spell Perfection, I'm throwing in the towel and leaving Paizo forever. No joke.


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NEW CHARACTER!

Our very first Shaman has come to the gallery!!!

Hesbra Dehlonna, 6th-level gnome shaman - As a young and eccentric gnome witch doctor with a jubilant "always-be-prepared-for-anything" mentality, Hesbra enjoys nothing more than exploring the wild places of the world alongside her wife, Jevicca Dehlonna.


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Melkiador wrote:
Paramount of the Vale wrote:
Not I, it is a good archetype and iconic for a commonly seen hero in other medias. People want to feel powerful and being Cap is really powerful.
I'm not sure if you understood, but it seems like almost all brawlers are shield users now. Not just the shield champion. The shield champion is just better at throwing the shield. Even the pummeling charge brawlers should now be wearing shields.

And yet, it remains wholly optional. It is not hard to obtain a very high AC even without a shield. This could be done for a number of reasons (most of which likely involve wanting to keep the hand free for this or that reason).


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If I have spell-like abilities, from race for example, the Concentration check modifier is generally Charisma-based, correct?

But what if I'm a cleric or wizard (or similar non-Charisma-based caster)? The concentration check modifier for my spells would be different as it is based on a different ability score, would it not?

So do I have two different Concentration modifiers now, and roll which ever one is appropriate to the situation? Or do I just take the highest and use it for everything?

This question also applies to multiclassed spellcasters.

I've seen it done both ways in official stat blocks.


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ZanThrax wrote:
They actually did fix the wide variety of problems with things that simply didn't work as written. And they nerfed a variety of things that the community was largely in agreement were overpowered. And then they kept going, and nerfed a whole lot of stuff that was actually well liked.

I think this is a fair observation of what is happening here.

Things like Animal Soul and Spirit's Gift were perfectly fine as is, well liked even, then they went in and changed them in a way that no one is ever likely to take them. Why???


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Man, practically nobody was taking the Elf favored class bonus for Arcanist before. Now I see absolutely no reason at all to take it. With the new Charisma limitations, you'd never hit your maximum anyways.


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I've made Heathcliff into an Aldori Swordlord, rather than a sword and board noble.


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An excerpt from the "Ravingdork's Crazy Character Emporium" thread:

Ravingdork wrote:

CHARACTER ERRATA

Due to the extensive new errata for the Advanced Class Guide, numerous characters have been modified (almost universally for the worse) to better fit these official changes, as follows:

Alleunti Dilesi - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Bumiahma Britoris Orpheus - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Cúran - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; wolf companion's reach reduced as the reach evolution is no longer a legal option for the Evolved Companion feat.

Enyo Quache - Avenger Finesse and Opportune Parry and Riposte class abilities reworded. Swashbuckler's Finesse has been removed.

Jevicca Dehlonna - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; new Blessing of the Faithful class ability added; Bonded Holy Symbol class ability reworded

Sandalphon - Consume spells now has a daily limit

She'er Falen (arcanist version) - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Several more characters, though they have not had to have their sheets adjusted, nevertheless function very differently now than was originally intended. Dag, for example, can no longer gain the benefits of his animal growth and atavism spells. I think I can safely say that no character using ACG elements was unaffected. The errata was THAT extensive!

In addition, no less than five of our active characters in our playgroup have been affected by the extreme overreach of this errata as well. A whole lot of character concepts and builds have basically been nerfed into oblivion.

Heathcliff, for example, as we knew him is dead. Long may memory of his deeds linger in the minds of those who knew him.

Anyone care to offer advice on how to rebuild him? Since he can no longer use Slashing Grace with shield or weapon in his off-hand, I guess that means he has no less than six feats and a few components of magical gear to swap out.

Please let me know if I missed any other characters who might have been affected by these changes.

Just to give you an idea of how much it is effecting just one play group and, by extension, the hundreds of people who make use of my gallery.


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CHARACTER ERRATA

Due to the extensive new errata for the Advanced Class Guide, numerous characters have been modified (almost universally for the worse) to better fit these official changes, as follows:

Alleunti Dilesi - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Bumiahma Britoris Orpheus - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Cúran - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; wolf companion's reach reduced as the reach evolution is no longer a legal option for the Evolved Companion feat.

Enyo Quache - Avenger Finesse and Opportune Parry and Riposte class abilities reworded. Swashbuckler's Finesse has been removed.

Jevicca Dehlonna - Saves significantly reduced due to changes in Divine Protection feat; new Blessing of the Faithful class ability added; Bonded Holy Symbol class ability reworded

Sandalphon - Consume spells now has a daily limit

She'er Falen (arcanist version) - Consume spells now has a daily limit

Several more characters, though they have not had to have their sheets adjusted, nevertheless function very differently now than was originally intended. Dag, for example, can no longer gain the benefits of his animal growth and atavism spells. I think I can safely say that no character using ACG elements was unaffected. The errata was THAT extensive!

In addition, no less than five of our active characters in our playgroup have been affected by the extreme overreach of this errata as well. A whole lot of character concepts and builds have basically been nerfed into oblivion.

Heathcliff, for example, as we knew him is dead. Long may memory of his deeds linger in the minds of those who knew him.

Anyone care to offer advice on how to rebuild him? Since he can no longer use Slashing Grace with shield or weapon in his off-hand, I guess that means he has no less than six feats and a few components of magical gear to swap out.

Please let me know if I missed any other characters who might have been affected by these changes.


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What am I going to do with my book now? Why are subscribers getting punished for their fiscal loyalty? This is too much too soon!

Bandw2 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
TOZ wrote:
Man, so this is what it's like when Blizzard releases a WoW patch.

I really didn't want to say anything for fear of fanboy retaliation, but yeah.

This Errata document looks almost EXACTLY like some of the 10 page long Diablo 3 patches and such that basically change how every class plays entirely (I remember at least one that changed how half of the Mage's abilities worked wholesale, on top of balance tweaks).

i got to agree, a ton of characters out there right now simply have to be scrapped because of some of these changes.

A huge chunk of my Crazy Character Gallery is going to have to be overhauled because of this overreach.

Over a dozen characters are going to require major rewrites. Several concepts have been completely crushed by this errata.

Boo I say. BOO!


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Our GM just had five assassin vines hit the party with five overlapping entangle spells, forcing five saves from the each of us.

Is this how it's supposed to work? It's not like a fireball or instantaneous effect. It's an ongoing transmutation that affects the foliage. Once the foliage is large and entangly, I'm uncertain that it can be made larger and more entangly in that manner. I'd like to think that it would be no more effective than casting enlarge person on the fighter multiple times.

Anyways, so we made our five saves and went on with the battle. Then in later rounds I noted the players would make five more saves. I'm thinking they might only need to make one. You're either in the entangle area, or you're not; you're entangled, or you're not.

How is this kind of situation supposed to be run? Has it ever been addressed?


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Dufray wrote:
Ravingdork, may i ask how you go about creating your characters? i enjoy the way the sheets look and was looking to do something like that for my party

How do I come up with the character concepts, or how do I build the character sheets themselves?

The latter is done on Microsoft Word. You can find a template for it in the Tools folder in my gallery. All you need to do is fill in the blanks and generally follow the formatting shown in the official stat blocks. I've also created several design styles, which you can use to easily make it look awesome.

The former more or less stems from random bouts of creativity. Sometimes I want to make a specific mechanical build and the concept comes later, other times they are just concepts that I dreamt up and wanted to implement the best way I can, and still other times they were inspired by artwork, books, or movies.

I hope that helps to answer your question, Dufray.


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You're not the first person to bring it up, I'm afraid. I'm not really sure what might be going on with it. Other people have been able to upload files just fine. Now, if only they'd spill their secret. :)


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Angry Wizard wrote:
Ravingdork, your Crazy Character Emporium on OneDrive is missing. Are currently transferring files or could it be a problem on my end?

Have you tried the master link at the bottom of the first post? I haven't uploaded anything since last night, and my having done so shouldn't really interrupt much of anything anyways.

Tels wrote:
Angry Wizard wrote:
Ravingdork, your Crazy Character Emporium on OneDrive is missing. Are currently transferring files or could it be a problem on my end?
Seems to work fine for me... Although, I still can't upload anything to the public folder ಠ_ಠ

After testing it out a few times (just now), it looks like you have to have a Microsoft account, and you must be signed into it on OneDrive.


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CHARACTER UPDATE

I've corrected Vallairs Urn's stealth modifier and added his favored class bonus (additional +2 natural armor bonus while wild shaped), which was missing previously.


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You can't have personal range potions in the first place, so skinsend is incompatible with touch injection unless you're using an extract.


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Berti Blackfoot wrote:

...one part reminded me of a favorite memory of mine: when my rogue was scouting ahead and got attacked by a caterpillar swarm. The other players decided the only thing to do was to cast burning hands on me, and throw some greek fire bottles on me for good measure.

It just goes to show how terrified of swarms PCs can be.

Wizard: Oh my gods! It's got Magellen!

Paladin: F%!+ Magellen! Bring out the wizard's fire before it's upon us too!"

;D


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If extracts work like potions, then the subject of skinsend is treated as the caster of the spell effect. Thus, they could have their skin back on, ending the entire effect, with a simple standard action by dismissing the spell.


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How are people using this with skinsend? It's a personal range spell, which can't be put into potions to be used with touch injection. I take it alchemists have some kind of exception with their extracts?

Also, if extracts work like potions, then the subject of skinsend is treated as the caster of the spell effect. Thus, they could have their skin back on, ending the entire effect, with a simple standard action by dismissing the spell.

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