Please adjust the color contrast. The yellow and green on a white background are not only impossible to read, but strain the eyes in a real bad way.
Insofar as I'm aware, yes. If the ooze had a mind to, it could make fist attacks despite not having actual fists.
My go to for breaking things is shatter. A long while ago, while reading a forum discussion about the efficacy of the shatter spell, I decided to math it out and make a reference sheet for myself. As I've since misplaced said discussion, I'm opting to share my findings here for your benefit. It shows what materials are most susceptible (for both becoming broken and getting destroyed) and at which spell ranks those conditions occur, assuming average damage. Shatter Susceptible Materials (Excel Spreadsheet / PDF)
If people weren't already aware, the Contrarian is literally a joke account from Ravingdork. I don't think RD actually believes the things said in that account, merely being funny creating. Quite right, though it's fast becoming my "devil's advocate" hat as well.
To be fair, a whole lot of items in PF1 were almost useless from the moment you picked them up due to dc. So sad, so true.
Brio Merryweather, circus ringmaster (Male gutsy halfling entertainer commander 1) - Pathbuilder Array “Every moment’s a stage! You choose whether to stand in the light or hide behind the curtain.” Brio Merryweather grew up on the road, born into a modest family of traveling entertainers who relied on quick wit and nimble hands to make a living. His small stature and boundless charm made him a natural fit for the stage, and his knack for timing and coordination quickly caught the eye of larger, more established shows. That attention eventually landed him a place in Mistress Dusklight’s Celestial Menagerie, a troupe that promised glittering opportunity but delivered cruelty and exploitation behind the scenes. In the Menagerie, Brio learned discipline under duress; calling cues for dangerous acts, improvising fixes mid-performance, and smoothing over mistakes so the crowd never saw the seams. His skill at holding a show together made him valuable, but the constant mistreatment of performers eroded his loyalty. When a group of fellow acts, weary of Dusklight’s abuse, chose to walk away and form the Circus of Wayward Wonders, Brio seized the chance to join them. In the Wayward Wonders, Brio found the family he’d always longed for. There he met Myron “Thunder” Stendhal, the booming-voiced ringmaster who saw potential in Brio not just as a performer, but as a leader. Myron made him his understudy, teaching him how to command the ring, inspire the troupe, and turn chaos into spectacle. Under Myron’s guidance, Brio’s confidence flourished, and so did the quality of every performance he helped run. That golden chapter ended abruptly when Myron was murdered, slain by poisonous snakes hidden in his costume trunk. With the troupe in shock and a major performance looming, Brio stepped forward, determined to honor his mentor’s legacy. That night, he directed the show from center ring, ensuring it went on without a hitch. The crowd roared in delight, never guessing the grief concealed behind the curtain. In the days that followed, Brio took up the ringmaster’s duties in all but name, working tirelessly to keep the Wayward Wonders together while quietly vowing to uncover the truth behind Myron’s death. Though his voice still carries the warmth of a showman, it now bears the steel of a man shaped by tragedy and chosen responsibility. Tactics: Consider opening up with a bola at range to trip an enemy. Then Signal a tactic (e.g., Gather to Me!) to bring allies into aura coverage around the fallen enemy. Use dueling cape and armor to soak punishment while allies reposition and mob your foes from all sides. Consider tanking hits with your dueling cape and armor and impeding enemy movement by standing in choke points while you command your allies. Use the shove property of your fighting stick to push enemies into vulnerable positions, such as hazardous terrain, or high drop offs. Inspiration: = Stage and Showmanship = Ringmasters & Circus Leaders - P.T. Barnum (theatrical presence, showmanship, commanding a crowd). Brio’s banner could be as much a prop of spectacle as a tool of war. Shakespearean Captains or Tricksters - like Henry V’s rousing speeches or Puck’s sly mischief. Brio could pivot between inspiring bravery and distracting foes. Vaudeville Performers - blending slapstick, timing, and charisma, which mirrors his Deceptive Tactics and Fascinating Performance. = Military Archetypes = Wellington or Napoleon (but pint-sized) - masterminds who reshaped battlefields with clever maneuvers, not just brute strength. Colonel Jack O’Neill (Stargate SG-1) - sarcastic but competent squad leader, who masks sharp tactical sense with humor. Band Leaders in Military Marches - historically, banners and music weren’t just morale tools; they coordinated troop movement. Brio’s banner is a direct echo of that. = Fantasy Figures= Samwise Gamgee (LOTR) - halfling resilience and the ability to keep spirits up in dire moments. Brio shares that “glue of the group” energy. Tyrion Lannister (Game of Thrones) - clever, underestimated strategist who uses words and wit to outmaneuver stronger foes. Matt Cauthon (Wheel of Time) - gambler-turned-general, with a mix of charm, luck, and battlefield brilliance. = Trickster-Commanders = Robin Hood’s Merry Men - a leader who inspires loyalty not through fear but fellowship. Cyrano de Bergerac - charismatic, theatrical, and skilled with both words and weapons. Jesters with Hidden Depths - Brio could play the fool to mask cunning moves (like a court jester who’s secretly the smartest in the room). = How It All Fits Brio = Brio Merryweather can be imagined as: A battlefield ringmaster: directing combat like it’s a performance, with banners, calls, and dramatic flair. A small but steady center of morale: allies feel braver and stronger just by clustering near him. A deceptive tactician: enemies underestimate the “jovial halfling,” but his feints and diversions create deadly openings.
XD
There are similar feats and abilities already. The Familiar Master archetype gets Familiar Conduit, which let's you cast spells from your familiar's position. Sorcerers have access to Spell Relay, allowing them to treat themselves as a point of origin for an ally's spell I'm sure there are other options closer to what you want; those are just the ones I know off the top of my head.
Claxon has the right of it. All save one of those things should be using the Simple DCs. Dragons who are attacking and not hiding are automatically spotted. If PFS/SFS doesn't do that in practice, then that is a failing of Society play specifically, and not of the general game rules themselves.
It was a "must have" before the Remaster and now it is better. But it doesn't break the game. "Must have" and "breaks the game" are synonymous in my mind. I've never seen a rogue take any other level 6 option. That lack of (practical) choice really hurts the game.
The power level of rogues before and after Gang Up is pretty hard to ignore, especially when comparing premaster and Remaster Gang Up. Very much a "must have or feel weaker than others" type of option.
Don't allow Starfinder rules in home games. Easy fix. For PFS it strikes me as a non-issue. PFS is Pathfinder easy mode by design, so as to better facilitate the onboardong of new players. Someone playing a slightly busted character doesn't really change any of the outcomes. That said, I do agree that there is a risk of power creep that we've not seen before.
Most instantaneous AoE effects, such as damaging fireballs and lightning bolts have their full normal effect. If you get blasted by two fireballs, for example, you will likely take damage twice. For AoEs that have ongoing duration and apply starus effects, it can get a little bit more nuanced. For starters, bonuses and penalties of the same type don't stack. So it doesn't matter how many overlapping malediction auras you find yourself in, you only take a -1 status penalty to AC. This is true even of different effects. For example, if you were frightened 1 from a fear spell, it would not lower your AC any worse than malediction already has. Disparate effects generally work normally. So an AoE that blinds and another that stuns, could leave victims blind and stunned in the overlapping areas. And then on top of all that you have the potential for opposing forces counteracting each other as described by Tridus above. For your two specific spells, slither and carrion mire, they would each have their full, normal effects. Keep in mind though that the latter requires you to sustain the effect, and the former takes three actions to cast, so under most circumstances you can only cast slither and then cast carrion mire, not the other way around. I hope that helps!
Well, I'm convinced. It's clearer to me now that the benefits of free-hand weapons, although relatively minor, are also many. Thank you all for the many enlightening responses.
I think it is mainly a metagaming issue - on a VTT you as a player can clearly see... If a player can clearly see the map while blind on a VTT, then your GM is using the wrong VTT. Foundry is best. It curbs that metagaming by darkening the screen in such situations. (Among a thousand other great built-in features that help to facilitate gameplay, mitigate metagaming, promote player autonomy, and allow for more frequent and accessible games.)
Yeah, if it's the same wall with the same conditions the DC should NOT shift just because the climber is higher level. Shifting the DC with character level would make absolutely no sense in this case, and is most assuredly not endorsed by the game developers as the way to go. Even if the conditions change on the same wall (such as climbing during a storm), I'd recommend applying it as penalty to the check for most things, rather than upping the DC, per Unicore's advice upthread.
The only time I would use scaling DCs for Athletics to Climb, would be if the character was in a rock wall climbing competition, and the fabricated walls were DESIGNED to become progressively harder and harder. I would also use higher set DCs for walls that were intrinsically harder (as shown below). Cross-posting this here as I feel it is relevant:
Being trained in skills is fairly meaningless as the game goes on. Your success rate plummets relative to skills with investment, but you can only really have 2 or 3 skills with investment, depending on your level. It is nice early, though, sure.
If I were to house rule it--which I won't cause my table hates house rules--but if I WERE to house rule it, I would say it works as is, but you get to add your ability modifier to it. Or perhaps half the modifier if that proves to be too much.
getting a nat 1 on a Climb can just kill you. Yeah, imagine loosing a PC to a g!@ d~&n Climb check. I've experienced this as GM. Had the player characters attempt to scale a steep slope. Enemies ahead of them had nailed boards into the slope to make something of a rather steep angled ladder. Then there were the gargoyles at the top. Only the champion had Athletics. Only the champion made it to the top. Only the champion died making a stand alone as his companions repeatedly fell from high heights. Two others were lost to gravity. It was absolutely humiliating for all involved. To be fair, sometimes it feels like Ravingdork is carrying forum engagement on his back. *sniff* That's the kindest thing anyone has said about me on these forums all year.
I understand that Starfinder 2nd Edition has been made to be much closer to Pathfinder 2nd Edition in its mechanics and play experience. What I want to know are what are the little things (and big things) that are different in a way that a person coming over from Pathfinder might not expect? Are there any surprising changes, differences, unintuitive new rules, or avoidable assumptions? As I slowly venture into this new game setting, what mines and pitfalls can you help my table and I avoid?
...if climbing a wall with a rope is typically a DC 15 activity, but becomes a 20 in the rain or a 25 in a huricane, then assurance is useless. This is a REALLY important point that I feel gets completely overlooked at many tables, to the loss of those who should have been assured.
First of all, that's probably to prevent exactly what you're trying to do. That's why it's bad! It actively makes your check below average! Second, you can take it for any skill that allows recall knowledge and then take Automatic Knowledge, which will let you Recall Knowledge as a free action every round. Well, yeah, but that takes extra resource investment to achieve. Third, use it in rituals (either as primary or secondary, provided you set up some circumstances to make things easier). Rituals have some of the hardest DCs in the game, and as we've established, Assurance doesn't even get you the average DCs. This would only work on rituals MUCH lower level than you, and therefore would not be nearly as useful. The power of Assurance comes not from being able to auto-succeed on certain at-level challenges, but from being able to auto-succeed on checks where you're likely to succeed anyway... I'm confused. If I'm likely to succeed anyway, why am I wasting a valuable feat slot? ...your Medicine checks to Treat Wounds, but also your Athletics checks to High Jump, Long Jump, Swim, etc. There are some of those corner cases I mentioned. It can work out well for things with established, static DCs, but most of those auto-succeed without the feat after a while (or get bypassed by other abilities altogether like flying over a wall rather than climbing it). It also has some use with athletics maneuvers against weak enemies since it bypasses MAP. If the enemies are weak, why are you extending their time on the board by not just killing them? Auto succeeding on an athletics maneuver against a foe is like finding out a cheat code. It's such a rush to be able to bully enemies with impunity. I suppose it would be if said enemy wasn't at least -2 levels below you. It auto-fails on anything else. It's pretty easy to bully -2 enemies without the feat. Also, seek help. Bullying the weak for that dopamine hit is wrong. XD Also good at protecting a key skill (like Craft for Inventor or a Swashbuckler's go-to Panache skill) from Misfortune effects because it's a Fortune effect & you end up w/ your normal roll. Misfortune effects are pretty rare though. It is nice when it comes up, though I wonder how the statistics shake out when compared to rolling with much higher values, but with negative rerolls or numerical penalties. I'm willing to bet it's not as good or as big a gap as people believe. And another Athletics use is for low-Str PCs or those wearing armor too heavy for themselves. Some token rolls might be unintentionally hard if you don't have Assurance. Ditto for Acrobatics for a 10 Dex warrior trying to navigate an icy slope. That just sounds like encouraging bad builds. As with most static feats, its benefits help those at the bottom of the curve more than the top, against one's worst rolls or situations rather than for one's best. On this I think we can agree.
That seems like a good use case for it, though adventurer's rarely seem to perish from lack of food or shelter. Assurance on Recall Knowledge freaking sucks, though. You almost never know the DC, but usually the checks you really want to succeed on are against higher level foes. And by RAW you can't retry once you've failed, so Automatic Knowledge is worse than useless most of the time. I agree. The Feat is a offshoot of the Take 10 rule. Unfortunately it is now a Skill Feat that doesn't increase action cost and works in combat. Those buffs cause some issues. If I remember correctly, take 10 didn't take more time (you just needed a calm ennvironment). Take 20 was the one that took more time. It's biggest strength of that it avoids Critical Failure. That is the one reason you pick it up and use it. Another thing that avoids Critical Failure is rolling with much higher numbers. Unless you're rolling against a static DC that you knew about in advance, Assurance is going to cause you to fail more often than not. But hey, it probably won't be a critical failure, so you've got that going for you, as you said. Being able to auto-crit on aid actions at 9th level has some nice perks. So it does. At a certain level though, you're basically crit succeeding Aid all the time without Assurance. Being able to auto-crit on aid actions at 9th level has some nice perks.Assurance (Diplomacy) for a character with the One For All feat. One For All says to ROLL. Since you don't ROLL with Assurance, the two abilities are incompatible. You can't get Y without first meeting X.
Exactly right. I've been in that boat. The problem is, if you didn't know what feat to take and settled on Assurance as a result, you probably will have as much or more trouble deciding what skill to apply it to! XD
Outside of a couple corner cases, Assurance looks like a REALLY bad feat. I was thinking about taking it with Craft for my Inventor so that I could more reliably use Overdrive. Nope. The feat automatically fails the standard level DC at every level. Like, WTF? Barbarians, rogues, and others don't have to deal with this **** for their extra damage. Why would anyone ever bother taking this feat outside of Medicine/Treat Injury? Please tell me I'm wrong.
It's easily one of the weakest points in Paizo's rule set / game design philosophy.
I much prefer the "use your Class DC" approach.
One way to really get those raw blasting damage numbers up is to use AoEs and always target your entire party. 4 to 6 more targets per spell is going to really make your DPR shine! XD LOL I understand now. But is this right? Being able to Sustain an extra time for free because Elf Step allows to Step twice in just one action? This really looks TGTBT! I'm still a bit skeptical myself. You're not taking the Step action. You're taking the Elf Step action. That's not the same thing. The rules for subordinate actions make it pretty clear that "Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions." Developers go to a lot of lengths to keep things in isolation so that combos like this aren't possible. Why would they make an exception here? I agree that it may well be TGTBT.
I think the design intent is to make sure you eventually move on to new items as the old ones fade. That way, you'll actually care about new treasure, instead of going "yeah but all my investment slots are already taken". Instead of the Christmas Tree characters we had in 1e, now we have yard sellers in 2e. ;P
The chain distance is only 30 feet, not 500 feet, so the ability to chain targets is much more conditional than you're presenting it. I'm quite certain that Unicore is aware of this. I distinctly remember having to target my character with chain lightning in one of Unicore's games, just so that I could continue to chain the effect to additional enemies that would otherwise have been out of range and avoided it. He was rather surprised by it, as I recall.
Well, was my own players that said that AoE should destroy the things. I simply liked the idea, and now it's how we rule since we start to play PF2e. That works too! XD
Guardians get a 2nd reaction at 7th-level. That's still considered low level / early game by many players.
Assurance and Risky Surgery are incompatible. You can't get the Success to Critical Success effect from Risky Surgery while using Assurance. It says you need to ROLL a Success in order for the result to be upgraded, and since Assurance makes it so you don't roll anything at all, you don't meet the requirement for the effect. You wouldn't get the +2 bonus either since Assurance precludes all bonuses.
Mechanically the class revision is balanced. However, it is not fine. There are tons of problems, as clearly evidenced by this thread.
I don't see the new oracle as playable at all. The Remaster totally gutted it of its heart and soul. A divine sorcerer has more flavor and better meets my character concepts now. A class that is uninteresting will not get played no matter how capable it is.
I've had to deal with that headache myself no less than three times. It IS tedius.
Carbuncle, the Tiny Tax Tyrant of Andoran (Male draxie sprite tax collector guardian 11) - Pathbuilder Array “I’m not A carbuncle! My name IS Carbuncle. Most call me “Carl” for short. I am an authorized assessor—that means NO smiting!” Long before he became a feared tax collector of the Andoran People’s Council, Carl (short for Carbuncle) was just another mischievous draxie sprite buzzing through the meadows, playing pranks on farmers, and sweet-talking honeybees out of their nectar. His destiny changed the day he stumbled upon an abandoned ledger in a hollow log. While most sprites would have used its pages to start a campfire, or a particularly elaborate paper hat, Carl was entranced by the meticulous columns of numbers and the mysterious legalese. Inspired, he began “collecting debts” from local animals. The squirrels paid their taxes in acorns, the field mice in dried seeds, and the owls… well, they paid nothing, but Carl learned valuable evasive maneuvers in the process. It wasn’t long before he realized that power was less about size and more about who controlled the receipts. Years later, his knack for extracting “fair contributions” caught the attention of a passing Andoran magistrate, who witnessed Carl singlehandedly “audit” a group of loggers attempting to sneak untaxed timber downriver. Through a dazzling combination of intimidation (mostly shouting from a branch), precision paperwork (using beetle-shell quills), and truly spiteful pranks (including replacing the crew’s boots with beehives), Carl forced them to settle their “dues.” Impressed by his relentless spirit, and his unerring ability to detect liars, the magistrate recruited him. Now officially appointed as a tax collector of the Andoran People’s Council, Carbuncle has become a pint-sized terror of tax evaders. He wears heavy armor forged from repurposed kettle lids and plates, gleaming like a walking coffer. His tiny wings allow him to swoop in unannounced, ledger in hand, his high-pitched battle cry ringing out: “If you can’t pay, I’ll make you pay attention!” Those who fall behind on their dues risk far more than fines. Carbuncle’s infamous pranks are legendary: delinquent taxpayers have been known to awaken with all their furniture glued to the ceiling, have their goats braided into knots, their wagons mysteriously disassembled and reassembled into “works of art,” or to find all their goods replaced with sacks of turnips with similar weight, all tagged with “Seized for Back Taxes.” Carbuncle believes in Andoran’s ideals of fairness and civic responsibility--as long as they’re filed in triplicate, countersigned by a steward, and don’t smell like they were buried in a turnip field. While some scoff at his size, few laugh long. After all, what’s more terrifying than a fey with legal authority, diplomatic immunity, and a full understanding of back taxes? He dreams one day of becoming Chief Assessor for the Eastern Reaches, where he can bring fiscal harmony (and just a little chaos) to all of Andoran’s frontier. Until then, he audits on, one copper at a time. Tactics: Tax collectors can be real bullies when the job demands it, and Carl is no exception! While sprites aren’t typically known for their law-abiding nature, Carl revels in the rare joy of having official permission to harass others via diabolical pranks until they cough up what they owe. Carl excels at battlefield manipulation, using combat maneuvers to reposition enemies into unfortunate places. Though he’s only the size of a house cat, Carl possesses the strength of several grown men. He can hurl creatures many times his size across the room, trip charging beasts, wrap his serpentine body around a giant’s limb in a submission hold, or disarm a seasoned warrior with a flick of his wrist. This style is supported by feats like Flying Tackle, which lets him leap through the air to trip enemies; Disarming Intercept, allowing him to snatch weapons from foes trying to bypass him; and Juggernaut Charge, which lets him drag enemies into danger--be it a trap, a waiting ally, or a well-preheated oven. Punishing Shove brings the pain to those who aren’t braced for it. Thanks to Titan Wrestler and Larger Than Life, his Tiny size (or the size of his enemies) is rarely a limiting factor. At higher levels, combos like Scattering Charge and Right Where You Want Them work wonderfully with Punishing Shove, letting Carl knock enemies around like bowling pins while repositioning himself across the battlefield. Cloud Jump and Powerful Leap extend the reach of his already impressive Flying Tackles. And if sheer presence isn’t enough, Battlecry and Terrified Retreat help ensure Carl’s reputation as a tax collector to be feared. When the going gets tough, abilities like flight, Quick Squeeze, and Slippery Prey along with later options like Quick Climb, Quick Swim, and Invisible Trickster, make for excellent escape tools. If time is on your side and enemies lack good ranged options, Carl can harass from above using his flight and extending feather quill to poke holes in his targets’ excuses. Just remember, staying airborne costs actions, so be mindful not to become an easy target! If you’re guarding others, it might be better to stay grounded. Carl has numerous tools to protect himself and his allies, including Shield Block and Intercept Attack, which he can use together in the same round thanks to Reaction Time. If enemies won’t focus on him, he can activate his armor’s Change Size function to become Large. An angry sprite the size of a house is hard to ignore! Outside of combat, simply perching on someone's shoulder while using Touch Telepathy, Quick Coercion, and Lasting Coercion can be surprisingly persuasive. For louder confrontations, Group Coercion makes entire rooms bend to his will. And with Thorough Search, Carl’s more likely to uncover the hidden assets of those attempting to underreport their worth. Inspirations: Carbuncle could easily draw inspiration from a mix of mischievous and bureaucratic characters like Pain and Panic from Hercules, Rumpelstiltskin from Shrek or Once Upon a Time, and Dwight Schrute from The Office, blending petty enforcement with gleeful vindictiveness. His size and chaotic energy echo Tinker Bell from Peter Pan and Boo from Baldur’s Gate, while his obsessive devotion to rules and forms brings to mind Bartleby the Bureaucrat from Futurama or Inspector Zenigata from Lupin III. Add in a pinch of King Bumi’s unpredictable genius (Avatar: The Last Airbender) and the draconic whimsy of characters like Morgrem (Pokémon) or the Tooth Fairy from Rise of the Guardians, and you’ve got a full recipe for a pint-sized terror with a ledger and a vendetta.
Slayer of halfling giants? :-) Can't ever let 'em get too tall. I've added the lesser alchemist's fire and the morph jewel, cold iron transmuting ingot, and silver transmuting ingot whetstones to Caltrop's equipment. This will allow him to shut down a troll's regeneration as well as to change his weapon's damage to bludgeoning, cold iron, piercing, silver, or slashing, as needed.
Captain free archetype complements very well my legally distinct Shmerlock Mholmes with a doctor friend. It's in the public domain; no need to be legally distinct if you don't want to be.
Why did they even make this archetype? That's terrible.Weak elemental blasts and maximum what? Master class DC?Expert. The archetype is amazing with other impulses, but the blast is a really hard sell. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. I want to see if anyone can take the ol'junker and patch it up well enough to at least place in the race.
Why would anyone ever spend 100gp on a minor sturdy shield when a steel shield and minor reinforcing rune are only 75gp for all the same stats?
Almost all of the guardian art are big chonky heroes. I'm loving the idea of a Small guardian absolutely being able to tank for allies and control the immediate battlefield. It's fun to subvert expectations like that.
Thank you for digging into this everyone. Based on what I've read so far, I think I will go with Baarogue's interpretation about timing in my own games, as well as considering the triggers to be two separate events. Though it looks like it's technically RAW legal, I probably would not allow two shield blocks or similar splitting of the damage at my tables short of the game developers saying that was intended.
Lol
I have not only updated Caltrop, halfling giant slayer (male halfling hunter guardian 7), for the Remaster, but have also reimagined him as a guardian rather than a fighter. Enjoy this sneak peak of Battlecry! content!
The whole "only works aboveground" houserule doesn't fly with me, narratively or mechanically. First, it says nothing of the sort. Second, there are plenty of vaults within Golarion that are large enough to house entire countries, including their warring armies. An item like this would be right at home mapping them out just as much as the surface. And finally, it only solves the perceived problems with dungeons, not other adventuring areas. The level of detail limitation makes much more sense. It solves many of the issues, has some support with specific sizes being mentioned, and doesn't come off as nearly as arbitrary. This isn't Minecraft. Don't play Minectaft?: In Minecraft, maps only record the top most blocks and therefore can only ever capture surface terrain and structures.
Not a chance. The sheer amount of land shown on this map means that even if the physical map is fairly large, a normal size dungeon is going to be a dot... "That's okay. I also bought a magnifying glass!" - Player
Another great way to increase party Stealth is to have an Expert in Stealth take Quiet Allies, and have the character with the highest Stealth modifier take the Keen Follower general feat. That way it is one Stealth check for the whole party at the party's highest Stealth modifier.
ARE UNDEAD PLAYERS UNHOLY? Undead aren't real. Players, on the other hand, are needy and self-centered; therefor they are always unholy. Only longtime hardworking GMs are granted holy sanctification.
If you are only hidden due to failed Avoid Notice, then the encounter starts. That's a bad outcome if you were trying to avoid it. Alternatively, an unavoidable encounter starts. Your Stealth check for initiative fails to beat the enemies' Perception DCs. You are noticed. That's a bad outcome, not only 'cause you're unlikely to be going first, but you are starting off on undesired footing. Most other abilities and skills you only need to make one check to determine if the outcome is desirable or undesirable. But Stealth allows two points of failure leading up to any combat. It's pretty unique in that regard.
I absolutely love how you need two successful checks to begin an encounter in Stealth. /sarc
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