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Sammy the Bull (Barbarian (Drunken Brute)(2)/Alchemist (Beastmorph)(X))

*please see bottom of post for build progression*

I like alchemists. They are a great utility character. They also can be rather effective in combat (Beastmorph Vivisectionist, may you rest in peace. Signed, PFS).

I decided to try a Hulk-inspired Barbarian/Alchemist build informed by several other threads on this idea from 2012 (kudos to the contributors).

The concept is a Half-Orc Shaman's Apprentice who escapes his cruel life but eventually decides to master the dangerous skills he had begun to learn. Like the Witcher, he combines martial skill with all kinds of ability augmenting potions.

Mechanically, the idea is to add as many strength bonuses and natural attacks as I can find while still being a utility knife for the party.

We start as a Barbarian and take 2 levels both for fluff reasons and because starting with all of those hit points, armor/weapon proficiency and rage abilities is dang handy to include growing horns. We then go straight alchemist the rest of the way.

By level 6 he gets 4 natural attacks along with some rather nasty buffs including: +8 strength, Heroism (for hours and hours), and Arcane Strike (!... hear me out on that one...). Further, Medium Armor Proficiency allows a bump in AC over a standard alchemist.

Additionally, the character has a ton of skill points/class skills and retains access to bombs (which will be weak relative to a bomber... but can cause some neat effects with the right discoveries)and can eventually buff the party through infusing his extracts.

Features:
-Go to Barb 2 for Lesser Fiend Totem. Provides horns while raging for a 4th natural attack

-Arcane Strike at level 1! How? By taking Magical Knack as a trait. Arcane strike boosts damage and makes the attacks magical. By level 6, that is +2 to damage!
Please see the following FAQ and thread:

-Heroism for hours and hours at level 6. How? Buy a Heroism Potion (Wizard level 5) and use the extract Alchemical Allocation to cast it over and over again without using it up. Couple with the Discovery Extend Potion for 100 minutes per use of Heroism! Neat, right? That is +2 to attacks and saving throws!

-With 17 rounds of rage and 40 minutes of mutagen by level 6, we should be able to ensure most fights have a +8 strength boost going

-With Feral Mutagen at level 3, we get 2 claws and a bite attack. Coupled with the Rage gore attack, we should be pumping out a ton of damage with all of these damage bonuses

-Drunken Brute Barbarian Archetype allows drinking potion as a move action and extension of rage through drinking

-Beastmorph Alchemist Archetype allows POUNCE and even flight... eventually...

At level 10 (ignore Enlarge Person, which he can cast repeatedly on himself for 8 minutes a shot... also ignore bulls strength and haste for now):

Questions for you:
1. Do you see any mistakes in my understanding of the rules?
2. How does the below compare to a pure Barbarian or pure Alchemist build in terms of effectiveness?
4. He has 17 rounds of rage. That feels like 2 solid encounters a day... which I think is pretty good. What do you think?
4. What can we do to optimize him further?
5. What is the optimum buffs I can cast in a given combat? I am assuming I should delay no more than 1 round for buffing before proceeding to take the nearest foe to gore town...

Thanks for reading and the help.

I would like to discuss the cross blooded, tattooed, admixture wizard. This is not a new idea: many others have posted the idea of taking a cross blooded Draconic/Orc Sorceror for level 1 and then switching to an Evocation (Admixture) wizard for the next 19 levels, resulting in a wizard who has all of the normal cosmic tools of other wizards coupled with +2 fire spell damage /die with the ability to change the fire damage to any element type.

I'd like to discuss how to optimize him and then how he compares to a standard wizard.

By adding Varisian Tattoo, his evocation spells also are cast at class level +1.
By taking the Magical Knack trait, his wizard spells will all be cast at full hit dice level.
Varisian Tattoo also gives a familiar at level 1 who will progress with his wizard levels. In fact, the tattoo familiar is superior to a regular familiar as it can be kept 100% safe at all times.

So the only draw back to this plan is the delay in wizard spell progression (but NOT spell power) by 1 level.

It seems to me that by delaying wizard spell progression by 1, this character actually gains a great deal of versatility in that he can now lay down very effective blasts.

At level 1 he relies on his longbow (Elf) and casting enlarge person 3 times a day.

At level 2, he is able to cast 7 first level spells per day (admittedly 3 are enlarge person). Note that his Burning Hands spell at level 2 does 3d4 +6 points of damage vs the worthless 2d4 of a standard wizard as the Varisian Tattoo increases caster level by 1 for his evocation spells.

At level 2, 12 points of aoe damage that can be of any elemental type is pretty dang good.

At level 6 he can cast a "fire" ball of any elemental type that deals 7d6 +14 damage or 38 on average vs 6d6 or 21 that a standard wizard would do.

What do you think? Is this more effective than a standard wizard? Am I underestimating the impact of delaying spell progression by 1 level? Also, what feats would you recommend? Is my stat distribution optimal?

Class: Sorceror (1)/Wizard(x)
Race: Elf

20 pt buy

Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 19
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Traits: Magical Knack, Warrior of Old
Initiative: +9
Level 1
Sorceror: Draconic/Orc cross blooded and Varisian Tattooed
Class abilities:
+2/die to all fire damage spells
+1 caster level to evocation spells
Tattoo familiar (+4 initiative)
Spell: enlarge person (3 /day)
Picks up Bluff and UMD as class skills, which is amusing

Level 2
Wizard: Evocation (Admixture) specialization
Class abilities:
Can change any spell damage to a different element
Tattoo familiar advances with wizard levels
Extensive knowledge skills allow evaluation of elemental resistances and weaknesses of opposing creatures

I am curious to get some input on the following idea (inspired by another thread on here)...

I am considering playing a Sorceror with 1 level of Oracle. The idea is to leverage the Awesome Display Mystery from the Heavens Revelation("Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier").

I could really use some advice on this as multi-classing spell casters is generally a very bad idea.

Advantages:

1. Color Spray remains a game winning spell for quite some time, if we take spell focus (Illusion) and pump our Charisma up and use metamagic feats to increase the DC (for example: Heighten Spell). At level 4, you can Color Spray for FULL EFFECT all creatures 7 HD or less! Which is everyone! yay!

2. When Color Spray starts becoming silly to use, we can soon switch over to Prismatic Spray (level 14) for more game winning goodness (will be affecting creatures with 16 HD or less by that point!)

3. The Haunted curse gives us Mage Hand and Ghost sound... 2 very handy spells.

4. We get to add 4 (and eventually 5 or more) 1st level Oracle spells to our daily casts! That is a bunch of spell casting! AND we can just spam Color Spray from our Sorceror spells at low levels.

5. Also, does this mean that we can simply ditch UMD? It certainly means we can use a wand of cure light wounds (if we take the spell as an oracle) without UMD. Is this how UMD works? I can auto use any spell casting device that I already know the spells for?

Disadvantages:

1. Lose 1 level of Sorceror spells. So we don't get level 9 spells until level 19 and at level 20 we can only cast 4 instead of 6. Which does suck. Also, our Sorceror bonus spells are delayed by a level.

Man, this seems like a good trade to me. What do you guys think?

I have a couple of quick questions. Thanks in advance.

1) Where can I find a quick summary of which classes/archetypes are not legal in PFS?

(and you can guess what is coming next...)

2) Is the Dawnflower Dervish Bard achetype PFS legal (from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish

3) I assume that the Kensai and Bladebound archetypes for Magus are both legal, correct?

So! I worry about my characters dieing of old age.

Could an alchemist with the Doppleganger discovery extend his life by residing mostly in his Doppleganger form?

Rules question: when using Doppleganger (or similar spells), does the original body cease aging when not being used?

Evidence for "yes" (see bold):

"The alchemist learns how to create a soulless duplicate of his body, into which he can project his consciousness. As a full-round action, he may shift his consciousness from his current body to any one of his available doppelganger simulacra, which must be on the same plane as the alchemist. If killed in a simulacrum, he transfers to his own body automatically; if killed in his own body, he is dead. Unused simulacra (including his abandoned original body) appear to be lifeless corpses, though they do not decay. Creating a duplicate costs 1,000 gp in alchemical materials and requires 1 week to grow. The created simulacrum is a creature, not a supernatural effect.

SO what do you think? I figure you could extend your life by something like 10x by only residing in your original body for 10% of the time.

The trade off?
-If your original body is destroyed, it looks like you die as soon as the doppleganger form dies. So it is not true immortality.
-You will lose time to aging at minumum for every time you have to create a new doppleganger
-It takes two discoveries to get the Doppleganger ability (as opposed to the level 20 discovery: Eternal Youth)

Thoughts?

EDIT: actually, this discovery is pretty cool if one starts really thinking about it. You can instantly teleport to any body you have stored anywhere, you can die as a doppleganger and simply wake up in your old body...

Also, it creates a pretty fun high level arch-enemy NPC scenario.

If I have a requirement for a feat that I took- for example, Str 15 for Eldritch Claws- and I meet the requirement BUT I am then hit with a status effect that lowers my strength, do I lose the use of the feat?

"Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or anything else required in order to take the feat."

See, the character has strength 15 and so can TAKE Eldritch Claws. The rules do not say he needs Strength 15 to Eldritch Claws.

Can anyone clarify? Seems to me that feats should not be turned off like that.

1) The guy does not suddenly forget what he learned
2) This would be a huge pain to track in-game. Do PCs try lowering NPC intelligence to turn off abilities?

For example:
-Arcane Armor Training. If you are level 3 and get level drained, are you no longer able to wear the armor?
-Deadly Aim. Does this turn off if I poison you/get you drunk enough such that your Dex goes below 13?
-Eldritch Claws. Requires STR of 15. If I poison you and lower your strength, are your claws turned off? That seems silly.
-Combat Expertise. Can you nueter a CMB build by lowering intelligence?

...or so I hope.

The plan rests on couple points:

1) 4 levels of Alchemist provide 2 80 minute sessions of Heroism and and 40 minutes of Mutagen per day... much more handy than those 4 levels of fighter.

2) Trip builds are rather sweet for quite some time

3) This build allows the trip build to remain viable when you start running into big baddies through 4 minutes of Enlarge Person (extract).

4) 4 Attacks of opportunities per round

5) High CMD. At level 10, has an effective str of 28 and dex of 16. Also, is using a +2 heavy flail and so can add wep enchantment and wep focus bonuses

At level 10:
DPR (full attack with Mutagen/without mutagen): 68.1/55.4 (as an aside, a Master Chymist does 61 DPR at level 10)
DPR (Single attack with Mutagen/without mutagen):38.6/32.1

Note that with Greater trip and a full attack, DPR gets up to 116.7. Throw in haste, and it can get up to 155.

AC: 25
Saves:
-Fort: 17 [7(fi) +4(alc) +3(cop) +2(heroism) +1(con)]
-Ref: 18 [7(fi) +3(cop) +4(alc) +2(heroism) +2 (dex)]
-Will: 9 [3(fi) +1(alc) +3(cop) +2(heroism) +1(wis)]

Class: Fighter(8)/Alchemist(4) [Flail]
Race: Human

Str: 18 (10)
Dex: 14 (5)
Con: 12 (2)
Int: 14 (5)
Wis: 12 (2)
Cha: 7 (-4)
Weapon Master/Alchemist
Traits:

1: Fighter (1)
Feats: Power attack ; Weapon Focus: Great Flail ; Combat Expertise
2: Fighter (2): Improved Trip
3: Fighter (3): Combat Reflexes
4: Fighter (4): Wep Spec: Great Flail
5: Alchemist (1): Step Up
6: Alchemist (2): ---
Discovery: Enhance Potion
7: Alchemist (3): Greater Trip
8: Alchemist (4): ---
Discovery: Extend Potion
Extract: Alchemical Allocation (key for infinite use of the heroism potion)
9: Fighter (5): Improved Criticals
10: Fighter (6): Critical Focus
11: Fighter (7): Weapon focus, Greater
12: Fighter (8): Bleeding Criticals
13: Fighter (9): Tripping Strike
14: Fighter (10): Furious Focus
15: Fighter (11): Lunge
16: Fighter (12): Wep Spec, Greater
17: Fighter (13): Dreadful Carnage
18: Fighter (14): Stunning Criticals
19: Fighter (15): Critical Mastery
20: Alchemist (5): -----

DPR (full round with mutagen/no mutagen): 68.1/61.4
DPR (Single Attack with mutagen/no mutagen): 42/35.5
DPR (Single round with Bombs): 12

Saves:
-Fort: 16 [7(fi) +4(alc) +2(cop) +2(heroism) +1(con)]
-Ref: 18 [7(fi) +2(cop) +4(alc) +2(heroism) +3 (dex)]
-Will: 8 [3(fi) +1(alc) +2(cop) +2(heroism) +1(wis)]

AC: 26 [10 (plate of speed) + 3 (dex) +2 (natural armor)+1 amulet of natural armor]

Gear:
Plate of Speed (26.5k)
+2 Heavy Flail (8k)
+4 Belt of Giant Strength (16k)
+2 Belt of Dexterity (4k)
+2 Cloak of resistance (4k)
+1 Amulet of natural armor (2k)
Potion of Heroism (.75k)

2 simple questions:

1) Deadly Stroke says: "If you hit, you deal double the normal damage"
Does that include strength damage as well? So a weapon doing 1d10+4(strength) would do 2d10+8?

2) I don't suppose I can combine Cleave and Deadly Stroke in the same round on the same targets? I am guessing not, but thought I would check.

Thanks for the quick help.

May I use Deadly Stroke as part of a full attack action?

What about Vital strike?

Can I use Vital Strike along with Deadly Stroke?

Also, does Deadly Stroke double weapon damage + strength damage or only weapon damage?

thanks!

May I use Deadly Stroke as part of a full attack action?

What about Vital strike?

Can I use Vital Strike along with Deadly Stroke?

thanks!

The idea here is to create a fighter that stacks a ton of debuffs on the enemy with each swing.

Between Shatter Defenses, Befuddling Strike, Cornugon Smash and being a Thug, this character gives a -4 to hit malus (vs himself) on every enemy he hits and makes them flatfooted.

He also ends up with a +23 (due to skill focus, 12 ranks invested and intimidating prowess) to Intimidate at level 12 and gets +1 to duration of shaken effects.

By level 12 he is already building towards the critical feat tree.

Finally, with a few levels of Rogue, he should be able to sneak attack for +2d6 on every attack (is this accurate? Meaning: with the below feats can I walk up to a dude, hit him with cornugon smash and shattering strike AND get a sneak attack all in the first round of combat?)

Seems like a fun fighter build that would be pretty effective. I could probaly min-max by dumping intelligence a bit.

What do you guys think? Rogue levels worth it? Would I be better off with Barbarian levels?

Ideally, I would also fit Crticals: bleeding.

Class: Fighter(8)/Rogue(4)
Race: Half-Elf

Str: 19 (13)
Dex: 14 (5)
Con: 12 (2)
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10
Weapon Master/Thug
Traits:

1: Fighter (1)
Feats: Power attack ; Weapon focus: Falchion ; (half-elf) Skill Focus: Intimidate
2: Fighter (2): Cleave
3: Fighter (3): Intimidating Prowess
4: Fighter (4): Weapon Specialization
5: Fighter (5): Dazzling Display
6: Fighter (6): Cornugon Smash
7: Rogue (1): Shatter Defenses
8: Rogue (2): Talent: Befuddling Strike
9: Rogue (3): Improved Criticals
10: Rogue (4): Talent: Critical Focus
11: Fighter (7): Weapon focus, Greater
12: Fighter (8): Deadly Stroke

1) Can a spell-caster/Alchemist create their own potions in PFS play?

2) If so, what is the cost of creation? Is it just (caster level)*(spell level)*(x gold)?

The rule book says I can learn formulae from a wizard's spell book:

"An alchemist begins play with two 1stlevel formulae of his choice, plus a number of additional forumlae equal to his Intelligence modifier. At each new alchemist level, he gains one new formula of any level that he can create. An alchemist can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs and time requirements. An alchemist can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An alchemist does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them."

1) I assume this means only extract formulae listed on the alchemist extract formulae list?

2) If so, how can I learn to create a Mage Armor potion?

3) In pathfinder society play, I assume it costs gold to create your own potions on the order of:
"Potions Base price = spell level × caster level × 50 gp." Correct?

3) All of you Alchemists out there: seems like creating potions are expensive, but there are some great discoveries that make them dang useful for Alchemists. Gold is limited. What potions are you regularly creating for use? How do you balance potions vs. Extracts?

4) I assume the various "extend potion", etc. discoveries ONLY apply to potions and not to extracts, correct?

Thanks for the help.

So I am also considering an Alchemist. I have two proposed builds: one is a an bomber/archer, the other is a monster. Here are the builds through level 8.

Dr. Jekyl
Traits: Splash Weapon Mastery (extra range on bombs)
Traits: Warrior of Old (+2 initiative)
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Skills: Knowledge (arcana), Perception, UMD, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, Craft (alchemy), Spell Craft, Fly

1. Alchemist (1) +0 BAB
-Feat: Point Blank Shot
-Bombs: 1d6+4 (5/day)
-Mutagen: (+2/+4/-2) 10 minutes
Extracts: Comprehend languages, Cure light wounds, Disguise self, Enlarge person, Shield

2. Alchemist (2) +1 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 1d6+4 (6/day)
Mutagen: Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 20 minutes
Discovery: Precise Bomb
Extracts: Bomber’s Eye

3: Alchemist (3) +2 BAB
Feat: Precise Shot
Bombs: 2D6+4 (7/day)
Mutagen: (+2/+4/-2) 30 minutes
Discovery:-
Extracts: Identify

4: Alchemist (4) +3 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 2D6+4 (8/day)
Mutagen: (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Explosive Bomb
Extracts: Invisibility

5: Alchemist (5) +3 BAB
Feat: Rapid Shot
Bombs: 3D6+4 (9/day)
Mutagen: (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Extracts: See invisible

6: Alchemist (6) +4 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 3d6+4 (10/day)
Mutagen: Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Smoke Bomb
Extracts: Aid

7: Alchemist (7) +5 BAB
Feat: Focused Shot
Bombs: 4d6+4 (11/day)
Mutagen: Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Extracts: haste

8: Alchemist (8) +6 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 4d6+4 (12/day)
Mutagen: Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Fast Bombs
Extracts: Fly

To-Hit… +12 (+6 +3 (Dex)+2 for mutagen+1 haste) to hit with bow/bombs;
Damage: 1D8+2(str)+4(intel) per arrow (X3) +poison= 30+poison (1d6+paralyze)
Bombs: 2-3/turn: 4d6+4 precision everything on them= 12d6 +12 +1d6 fire = 54 +1d6 fire
Weapons: long sword, composite long bow

By level 8 he can conduct carpet bombing campaigns. Also, his bow remains useful.

Mr. Hyde
Class: Alchemist
Race: Elf (I am racist against orcs, sorry)
Trait: Dirty Fighting (+3 damage when flanking)
Trait: Warrior of Old (+2 to initiative)
20pt buy....
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 8

Skills: Knowledge (arcana), Perception, UMD, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, Craft (alchemy), Spell Craft

1. Alchemist (1) +0 BAB
-Feat: Improved unarmed strike
-Bombs: 1d6+3 (4/day)
-Mutagen: (+2/+4/-2) 10 minutes
Extracts: Comprehend languages, Cure light wounds, Disguise self, Enlarge person, Shield

2. Alchemist (2) +1 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 1d6+3 (5/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 20 minutes
Discovery: Mutagen
Extracts: Bomber’s Eye

3: Alchemist (3) +2 BAB
Feat: Power attack
Bombs: 2D6+3 (6/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 30 minutes
Discovery:-
Extracts: Identify

4: Alchemist (4) +3 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 2D6+3 (7/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Concentrate poison
Extracts: Invisibility

5: Alchemist (5) +3 BAB
Feat: Weapon focus: claws
Bombs: 3D6+3 (8/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Extracts: Alchemical Allocation

6: Alchemist (6) +4 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 3d6+3 (9/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Sticky Poison
Extracts: See Invisible
7: Alchemist (7) +5 BAB
Feat: Iron Will
Bombs: 4d6+3 (10/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Extracts: haste

8: Alchemist (8) +6 BAB
Feat: -
Bombs: 4d6+3 (10/day)
Mutagen: Feral Mutagen (+2/+4/-2) 40 minutes
Discovery: Smoke bomb
Extracts: Amplify elixer
9: Master Chymist (9)

Weapons: long sword, composite long bow

To hit: (+6+3(str)+2(mutagen)+1(wep focus) +1 (greater magic fang) = +13
Damage: 1d6+5(Str) +2(pwr attack), 1d6+5 +2, 1d8+5 +2, 1d8+5+2 (from haste) +poison on all 3 attacks (tears of death and black lotus … +2d6 con and paralyze) +3 if flanking = 43+poison(7/turn+paralysis)+3 (if flanking due to trait)

AC=+14... +4(mithral Shirt)+4 (shield extract)+3(Dex)+2(Mutagen)+1(haste) Is this good enough for meleers in level 8 encounters?

Craft: +3+3+8(alchemy)+8(levels) = +22 (so can create poisons easily)

This guy is also entertaining.

So are these builds going to be helpful to an 8th level party? Which one is more tactically sound? The stickied poison claws are amusing. I am somewhat leaning towards Mr. Hyde for RP reasons.

So the idea here is that TWF rogues have to stand in place to really use both weapons. I want an insane jack rabbit who runs around whacking people and escaping.

With the Scout subclass, a Rogue apparently gets to sneak attack after moving 10 ft. So! Why not leverage spring attack? This seems much more reliable than the intimidate option. AND I can avoid melee by continually running behind the fighter! fun!

The net result is a Rogue who hits more often than the TWF for comparable damage and who can retreat to safety AND gets access to whirlwind attack which is just plain fun. The whirlwind attack is just nice to have as an option... particularly if I can add in "Lunge" at level 11 or something.

He ends up having three good ways to get SA damage:

1) Flanking. BUT, because he relies on a 2 handed sword, he loses less damage from moving than a twf rogue

2) Sneaking. Yay. Half-Elf feat: skill focus sneak!

3) Spring attack.

And he can do all of that by level 5

So here we go:

Class: Rogue (Scout)
Race: Half-elf (I am racist against orcs, sorry)
Trait: Heirloom weapon: greatsword
Trait: Qaidara shadow (stealth move at full speed)
20pt buy....
Str: 18 (+2 from being half elf)
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Cha: 12

1.Rogue:(1): Power Attack ; Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus, Stealth +1d6SA
2. Rogue (2): Talent: Wep Focus Great Sword
3: Rogue (3) Feat: Dodge +2d6SA
4: Rogue(4) Talent: (feat) Mobility
5: Rogue (5) Feat: Spring attack +3d6
6: Rogue (6) Talent: Trap spotter
7: Rogue(7) Feat: Whirlwind attack +4d6
8: Rogue (8) Talent: Opportunist
9: Rogue(9) Feat: Vital Striker? +5d6

Skills:

Stealth
Acrobatics
Climbing
Disable Device
UMD
Perception
Bluff
Sleight of hand
(or something)

So I have read the guide to organized play. At the back of the book (pg 30) it says "while most of the pathfinder RPG core rulebook is legal for play (with some feat and spell exceptions)..."

But I can't find anything in the guide where it lists what those exceptions are! Could some kind soul point me to where I can find those additional rules?

Also, I am assuming that feat and attribute advancement is the SAME as the core rules:

Additional feats at 1,3,5,7,9,11... right?

More attribute points at 4,8 etc...

So before I posted my twf rogue build, I spent a ton of time trying to come up with a 1 weapon rogue build that could compete. Assume we are only considering the first 12 levels...

It would be fun to build an Elven rogue-fighter that used the 2-handed Elven curved blade.

Unfortunately, the disparity in damage output is huge even at level 8 and I cannot come up with an adequate combo of feats that a rogue could take which would make up for it. Most of the good ones require a much higher BAB than a rogue could get before level 12.

At level 8, the sneak attack of the TWF rogue is something like 3x 1d6 +2 (strength) + 4d6 with only a -1 difference in to-hit (assuming the TWF takes weapon focus: short sword). Average damage = 57.

Our Elven Blade Rogue can get 1d10 +3 (strength bonus is x1.5 for 2 handed weps) +4d6. Average damage is 22. But this build does have 3 extra feats since it did not take weapon focus or either twf feat.

Any way to make the Elven Curved Blade Rogue competitive?
The TWF Rogue is probably using something like dazzling display + shatter.

The Elven Curved Blade guy will have 3 extra feats to play with...

Possibilities I have thought about:
1) Spring attack. Do much less damage but are much more mobile. Can run around the battlefield avoiding attacks. Maybe a fair trade? Could achive this by level 5, which is fun.

We have 3 feats to add into this mobility plan. Cleave? But that is only helpful with a bunch of tightly packed bad guys... still.. maybe.

2) Use Trip and Attacks of Opportunity? With greater trip and combat reflexes one could get (potentially) two easy attacks (at an effective +4 to hit) per round. Maybe the 1d10 +3 of the Elven Curved blade and leveraged strength bonus (2 handed weps give x1.5 strength bonus) helps here? On the other hand, this requires a really good CMB... by level 8 one could have something like +15 CMB. Doable? Maybe best to just leave this to fighters...

3) Vital Strike? But by level 12 we are not going to be able to get anything more than the first level of this. On the other and extra 1d10 of damage is nice...

4) Maybe say f it and go for a bow rogue using manyshot for a dual sneak attack (is this even possible?)

Anyone tried something like this?

Yeah. TWF rogues... dime a dozen. I know. But I'd appreciate some quick feedback anyway. This will be an outgoing, personable character with all of the great social skills (including perform!) which should make him fun out of combat. The plan is to use a high intimidate skill (will be +12 by the time I have shatter defenses... and +18!!! by level 9)

In addition to the shatter def combo, I will rely on stealth (+11 at level 1) and acrobatics (+8 at level 1) for sneak attacks.

Yes, I recognize that picking fighter first would be more optimal in terms of hit points and combat ability, but I want all of the skills a level in rogue gives me from level 1... it will make the game more fun for me.

Buyng Attributes. May spend 20 points.

Half-Elf Rogue/Fighter
Attri Score Bonus Cost
Str 12 +1 +2
Dex 18 +4 +10 (gets +2 racial bonus)
Con 10 0 0
Int 14 +2 +5
Wis 8 -1 -2
Char 14 +2 +5

Gets 11 skills at level 1.
Speaks Common, Elven, Goblin, Orc.

1: Rogue Feat(1): Improved Initiative Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus (stealth) +0
2: Rogue Talent(2): Fast Stealth +1
3: Fighter(1): Two Wep Fighting, Finesse +2
4: Fighter (2): Weapon focus: short sword+3
5: Rogue (3) Feat: Dazzling Display +4
6: Rogue (4) Talent: Bleeding +5
7: Rogue (5) Feat: Shatter Defenses +5
8: Rogue (6) Talent: Improved TWF +6
9: Rogue (7) Feat: Persuasive (+2 to dimplomacy and intimidate... +4 if 10 ranks or more)
10: Rogue (8) Talent: Surprise Attack
11: Rogue (9) Feat: Mobility
12: Rogue (10) Talent: Opportunist

Thoughts?