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BigNorseWolf's page

RPG Superstar 2014 Dedicated Voter. FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 19,870 posts (20,631 including aliases). 12 reviews. 4 lists. No wishlists. 22 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

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littlehewy wrote:


Do you have a personal view?

My view is that while I would like the government to not manage peoples businesses, when we actually tried that it hurt a lot of people. At one point I thought we were past needing it, but a number of events convinced me otherwise.

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Littlehewy wrote:

Let me then restate:

Why should it be illegal to discriminate against someone of a different skin colour, but legal to do the same on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identification?

I believe the answer for a libertarian s both should be legal, not because its ok, but because government interference in private matters is worse (and how an individual decides how to run their business IS a private matter)

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Zhangar wrote:


Thought about it and came back to your responses, because they're kind of odd, honestly. I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from.

Its pretty straitforward. I think the rogue is a bad class. I think that just about anything you want to do mechanically you can do better with another class.

Quote:
Trapspotter: Yes, it is, but you were asking about examples of good rogue talents. Did you mean rogue only or what? Considering how many rogue talents have been farmed out to other classes, that's a really important qualifier to leave out of your initial question.

Its part of the larger question of "Why be a rogue?" If the answer is trapspotting then you're out of luck, because there are classes that give you trapspotting and more hit points and better saves and more bab.

Quote:
Black market connections: Um, if you're shopping for magic items, then you obviously aren't crafting them.

Why bother shopping if you can craft? The rogue gets the ability to get what they want. The wizard gets the ability to get exactly what they want but at half price. Black market connections is a bad reason to be a rogue.

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Righty_ wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
What is a really good rogue talent?
Adv. Dispelling Strike, opportunist
Quote:
Nin Tal avail to rogues Pressure points

I had pressure points on a tengu ninja. It really never worked the way I'd hoped. Basically it was move up, sneak once for 1 dex damage which.. has no effect. Next round claw claw beak 3 dex damage but they're probably dead anyway. Its a very minor bonus to hit.

Quote:
Rt. Trap spotter

Kind of meh and very dm dependant.

Quote:
offensive defense

Got nerfed.

Quote:
weapon training, combat training, minor magic -acud splash, major magic - true strike, and snap shot.

If you're trading class abilities into feats why not be a fighter?

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littlehewy wrote:


It's been brought up numerous times, but why is it not okay to discriminate against someone of a different skin colour, but okay to do the same on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identification?

There's a problem with your question.

To a libertarian there is a difference between "Something is ok to do" and "something should be LEGAL to do". It is entirely possible that discrimination is seriously not ok, but that its still not as not ok as government intruding into how people conduct their business.

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Zhangar wrote:
@ BigNorseWolf - Trap Spotter (i.e., I always win against traps), offensive defense (i.e., rogues who are doing it right aren't squishy), black market connections (man, that's a weird one, but funny), various talents that grant feats you'd want want anyways, major magic talent, fast stealth, etc.

If you need it, trapspotter is available from other, better dipping classes.

Offensive defense was nerfed

Black market connections is a hell of a lot worse than magic item creation feats, or just a teleport spell.

Most classes willingly,repeatedly and gleefully burn feats to take extra [class feature here] . That the list of best rogue talents includes going in the other direction is telling.

Quote:
And that's without getting into master talents (which a rogue actually gets more of than the normal talents).

IF your campaign gets to 10th level you're running into the god wizards becoming reality rather than theorycrafting by then.

Quote:
And then starting with the APG, rage powers got vastly better (I'm looking at you, witch hunter and greater beast totem) while rogue talents shifted from low-power, always-on abilities to low-power, 1/day abilities.

Most play isn't limited to the CRB, so this is making my point.

Rogue talents, rage powers, alchemist discoveries, investigator talents, etc., are clearly supposed to be on the same level with each other, and yet most rogue talents are just inexplicably worse.

Quote:
That's always struck me as a really weird design decision. I guess we'll see how Unchained handles rogue talents.

*clinks glass* heres hoping to unchained rogues.

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claudekennilol wrote:
Yeah, if the only reason is so that players can't choose to play fast/slow to mitigate "low reward" scenarios, then all that player is going to do is simply not play that scenario with that character. I don't see how that's a valid reason.

Or if the party gets halfway through and runs away , that drops their treasure so someone might say "yeah, we'll take this one slow..."

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Tim Statler wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

5) Rogues are worthless. They suck in a vacuum. They were dead in the CRB. They have been thematically killed with other additions. This has only been verified by myself extensively playing a rogue in Rise of the Rune Lords and all other campaigns in which I have witness rogues present.

3) No you really do need power attack. If you wouldn't benefit from using it, then your character is poorly optimized.

And people wonder how the OP got his opinions in his rant.

That its a message board meme and that the meme is wrong are two separate things.

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What is a really good rogue talent?

Shadow Lodge

Universalist mage is the worst choice. Specilization isn't nearly as restrictive as previous editions. Even if you had one opposed school memorized at every level you'd still be back to the same number of spells as a generalist. Usually you can avoid that , especially with your more valuable high level spell slots.

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purple ____ on a shingle sandwich shop?

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I believe given the reaction to the new faction symbols they were supposed to get new art for them. After that they may decide on shirts or not

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:


I don't trust dogs though. At least not strange ones. More accurately, I don't trust strange dog owners. Especially the ones assuring me that their dog, straining at the leash with his ears flat and tail down, is friendly and harmless.

Both of which are submissive gestures, not that unusual in a doge approaching an unfamiliar human and wanting to show that they're not a threat. Its pretty likely that the dog just wants to say hello.

Not that you can't get bit by a dog with any body language, but Its ears up tail up and wagging like a metronome= I think i can take you BRING IT PUNK

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DesolateHarmony wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

...

-You're participating from start to finish. I remember in rise of the goblin guild I missed the first two rolls... and it was pretty clear I'd never get back in it, so i went for coffee.

This is the one I have seen in the past. If you are built for the chase, you can do it. Mostly it just takes a character with skills. My paladins and fighter just get to try repeatedly to find a way over a wall or through a gate.

The character was an inquisitor and WAS built to do a large number of tasks. But the dc 20ish skill checks meant that rounds 1, 2, 1nd 3 rolls of.. well, 1 2 and 3 on the die meant that I was't going to get anywhere before the chase scene ended one way or the other.

Shadow Lodge ***

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The recent chase scenes in this one and the merchants wake have been a lot more popular because

-They're a group effort, the entire party moves together rather than playing an individual board game

-A lot more "roll the die now figure out what you're doing later" since you don't have to figure out who's rolling what in advance to avoid gaming the sysem.

-You're participating from start to finish. I remember in rise of the goblin guild I missed the first two rolls... and it was pretty clear I'd never get back in it, so i went for coffee.

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Jessex wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
trollbill wrote:
Just remember, they are ready to play as soon as they stop putting the dice in their mouth.
Nonsense. A Heimlich is a perfectly valid dice rolling method.
Only if they have their own dice and place to roll them.

A shatterproof backboard is the real key to that.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:


If it's something I'm playing, then yes, I do repeatedly reread the section on that class.

That wasn't the question. I asked if you memorized it and understood it in relation to every other rule that might apply to it ? Big difference between that and reading it a few times. Those rules get a little crazy and counter intuitive. You should see the looks on DMs faces when I tell them that a druid in rat form can breathe underwater.

you never know where a rule that impacts what you want to do might be. Heck, a recent problem came up because a goblin wanted to fly on a bat , checked the bat, the handle animal, the ride section, the fly session... but didn't see a rule about no medium loads while flying, under... the barding section.

Quote:
I also print out the pages on anything I'm using and take it with me to the game. If the GM can do enough homework to put an entire game together, I can be bothered to learn how to play a character.

And that's ALL that's required to end rules lawyering?

The vast majority of rules lawyering isn't not knowing the rules, or even bouncing weird ruless off of each other, its looking at the same words and coming to alternative meanings of the exact same words. (quite often, whichever reading gives the player the advantage). Knowing, citing, or printing out the rules isn't going to help you there.

hare Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).

Reading that as one big related clause or as two separate clauses are both fairly common.

Shadow Lodge

Maybe the virus induces stupidity even before it causes full blown braaaain eating? It would explain a lot in universe.. but probably take away from a lot of the series comments on human nature.

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LazarX wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Anybody remember the time people found out that Chik-Fil-A donated money to groups that advocated for the execution of homosexuals and then social media caused a huge boycott that drove them out of business?

And this plus your nonsense question about bigots outnumbering the oppressed means what? That the idea of fighting such evil is nonsense? That every oppressed minority should just roll over and take it, because it won't change, and they are in the wrong anyway because they are a minority, and majority makes right?

There are some folks in Fergueson, Selma, and Stonewall who beg to disagree.

I believe he's saying that the free market solutions to bigotry don't work, and are evidenced not to work, so the libertarian hypothesis that the free market will take care of it is bunk, because evidence > ideals.

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LazarX wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
What if, and now this is a stretch mind you, the bigots out number the oppressed?
Then the idea of this country being "exceptional" in it's pursuit of liberty and equality has been proven a lie.

Balderdash. It is exceptional.

Exceptionally bad.

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thegreenteagamer wrote:


If it's something I'm playing, then yes, I do repeatedly reread the section on that class.

That wasn't the question. I asked if you memorized it and understood it in relation to every other rule that might apply to it ? Big difference between that and reading it a few times. Those rules get a little crazy and counter intuitive. You should see the looks on DMs faces when I tell them that a druid in rat form can breathe underwater.

Quote:
I also print out the pages on anything I'm using and take it with me to the game. If the GM can do enough homework to put an entire game together, I can be bothered to learn how to play a character.

And that's ALL that's required to end rules lawyering?

The vast majority of rules lawyering isn't not knowing the rules, or even bouncing weird ruless off of each other, its looking at the same words and coming to alternative meanings of the exact same words. (quite often, whichever reading gives the player the advantage). Knowing, citing, or printing out the rules isn't going to help you there.

hare Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).

Reading that as one big related clause or as two separate clauses are both fairly common.

Shadow Lodge

Do you memorize everything you read, and understand the often contradictory and bizarrely placed and cross referenced rules and how they interact with each other? Something as straitforward as the druid requires having the druid page , the monster they're turning into, and the beast shape spell, as well as the polymorph section of the magic chapter all pinging off of each other.

Shadow Lodge

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'd hope for Phoenix, but the out of state crowd would melt

You could stop there :)

Shadow Lodge ***

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Roo 666 wrote:
Why make a class that is broken by the rules to begin with?

The assumption you're making here is that this was the intent, rather than an obscure rule that the author overlooked. You can't read malice into a very easy to make error.

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Roo 666 wrote:
So... I start my Goblin Boone and choose Goblin Marauder. The minimum weight of a naked goblin is 32 lb. The bat can only carry a 30lb load before it gets in the medium load category. It now cannot fly. Who's the genius that wrote this one?

The minimum weight is 27 pounds. You don't HAVE to be male... :)

But besides that, yeah. Wand of ant haul (you can hand them to party members if you can't cast it yourself)

Shadow Lodge ***

3 people marked this as a favorite.
trollbill wrote:
Just remember, they are ready to play as soon as they stop putting the dice in their mouth.

Nonsense. A Heimlich is a perfectly valid dice rolling method.

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Jason Wu wrote:
It was too close to Angel Summoner. <nod>

That poor rogue....

*ow ow ow ow ow ow ow* ok I deserved that *ow ow ow ow ow* watch the tail *ow ow ow ow*

Shadow Lodge ***

Save a grand. use the other pathfinder pouch.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
If your religion demands you can't sell cakes to gay people, don't open a bakery.

Or, at least, wedding cakes, I guess?

I guess we won't see any Muslim owned BBQ joints anywhere then either?

OMG LOL

There have been cases of Muslim taxi drivers refusing to carry passengers with alcohol (not drunk passengers, just ones carrying alcohol - duty free from airports mostly). Or worse, blind passengers with guide dogs.

Freedom of religion.

Never trust anyone or anything that doesn't trust dogs.

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thejeff wrote:
But I suspect the peer reviewed study is more likely to take that into account than anecdotes from random teens.

But there's not much they can do for it. Its simply a limitation on the social sciences that make the social fine but when they add science they prevaricate.

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I hate those freaking things...

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Can'tFindThePath wrote:
This thread is a great example. Most people are commenting here that he is wrong in his interpretation of the board's general opinions on these subjects. Then many go on to list their opinions, nearly all of which say the rogue is weak, and ever since classes X, Y, and Z they can't really do anything as well as other classes...but we would never call you stupid.

He's not picking up on half the reason WHY people say the rogue is weak.

Its not JUST his lack of ability in combat, its also his lack of ability in skills and versatility. The idea that the rogue trades combat effectiveness for skill supremacy and versatility and thats ok doesn't pan out, not because its nots ok but because it simply isn't true.

Combat effectiveness are traded out for Rogue talents are that are objectively horrible and extra skill points that can diversify your skill set but do little if anything to improve a wide range of skills that the rogue will, at best, be mediocre with.

There is somewhere between little an no reason why the same party member needs to climb the cliff, pick the lock, swim under the water, put a knife to the cooks throat and tell them to be silent, sneak past the kennels, lie to the guard about the shift change and talk to the princess about the value of her royal jewelry.

When other classes, particularly spellcasters, trade power for versatility they loose a little power and gain a lot of versatility. The rogue loses a lot for very little.

Shadow Lodge ***

Kitsune are great for

Swashbucklers

Dervish dancer bards (which are better swashbuckler types than swashbucklers)

Dex based paladins (mixes oddly well with the swashbuckler)

Charming/Dashing rogue types.

Ray Oracles.

There's a really fun Mouser Swashbuckler urban barbarian mix i want to try: basically you turn into a tiny fox, move into peoples space and annnoy them from there.

As mentioned, the enchanter thanks to their racial bonus.

Shadow Lodge

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Healing in combat is like drunk in public. Every once in a while is fine but it shouldn't be a habit.

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They;'ve answered this one specifically for pfs and it was no unfortunately. I can dig up the reference if you'd like.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
Again, it's all about what we are told and what we are shown. We are told that the PFS is a small, multinational, apolitical group of likeminded explorers and historians that seek to rescue lost lore from destruction and the ravages of time. We are instead shown that the PFS is a massive personal mercenary army that forces their will on all nations and peoples without repercussion and takes what they want to be locked away for their own uses and no one else's benefit, that has no problem strong arming, murdering, lying, cheating, or sabotaging to achieve their ends, even to the sale of possibly sending entire nations into chaos and poverty, that really only care about hoarding secrets from everyone else.

Wow.

Complete and utter misrepresentation of the stories told, all to paint the organization as Evil aligned.

Either that or they got a lot of Sheilda Hedemarch adventures...

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Quote:
Rogues exceed at skills and utility. Finding traps, disabling traps (traps that can instant-kill you, by the way, not all traps 'just drain charges from a wand of Cure light wounds.') Rogues are fast-talkers, are good at stealth. With proper buffs from a wizard or clerics, Rogues can end an encounter without ever getting into combat. Are they the best class in the game? No. Are they super broken? No. Could they be made better? Yes. Are they viable? Also yes.

This is the false part. This is why their lackluster performance in combat lacks excuse. They do NOT exceed at skills and utility. Anyone can find traps. Their only advantage is the 8 skill points per level, which merely lets them succeed at their 7th and 8th worst choices for skills.

Shadow Lodge ***

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Pathfinder society Dancing lights Semaphore.

Make a dancing lights triangle: One light in the center

The bigger the triangle the faster the scout is moving. One big ball means stop.

Triangle tilts right, they're going right. Left, left etc.

Triangle spins clockwise= get up here. Faster it spins, the more urgent it is.

Triangle spins counter clockwise= Run away. Faster it spins the more urgent it is.

Threat level: three balls in a vertical line. The fourth ball marks a point on an XY axis. X denotes the certainty of violence, Y denotes the level of the threat.

The duration on dancing lights, which i missed, is a real limiting factor in making use of this.

Shadow Lodge

Once society collapses there's a few different strategies for survival

Hold up and hide: This works great...but depends on supplies, and there's only so much even a dedicated prepper can stock. At the extreme end it works until your water chip breaks. It also depends on no one finding you. If someone knows where your bunker is they can force you out with a shovel and some time, and if they're starving they will.

Roam and scavange: The main characters strategy. Stay in a small band, hit a place, get supplies, move on.

Build: The local town has passed the hold up phase and gone here. This is neccesary to keep everyone from running out of food, water, shelter, ammo and weapons. The problem is that you can only make a group so big without an industrial complex behind it, which gives you problems with..

The locusts. The most efficient short term survival is a group of murderous, mostly male psycos with no remorse rampaging through the countryside, killing everyone and taking everything that isn't nailed down. Highly efficient and mobile because they're not building anything, burdened with children, or stuck looking after the suck and weak they're just taking everything. Its a 100% fighting population.

The moral problems aside, they're the thing that keeps society from getting off the ground again, not the walkers. You need to build eventually , but why bother if its just an invitation to have things taken from you?

Shadow Lodge

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Nicos wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Nicos wrote:
The Fox wrote:


Nope. State-sanctioned discrimination is antithetical to American values.

It is?, I mean, you have a governor trying to make that a law, and I guess some people that voted for him think like him.

Not trying to say that State-sanctioned discrimination is an American value, but that the idea of a set of values that apply to a nation is a myth.

America is not a democracy precisely for that reason. "Tyranny of the majority" was accounted for at our founding.
Not sure If I'm understanding correctly what you are saying.

He's saying that individuals have rights that the majority can't simply take away by a 51% majority (at least in theory)

Shadow Lodge

Dude, first off yanking pointy objects out of parts of your anatomy yourself is damned hard (this is not a hypothetical statement on my part). Secondly emergency medical medicine is entirely reliant on getting them to actual medical personnel in a hurry. Your chances of getting someone back with cpr are pretty slim. Your chances of getting them back with cpr if the nearest hospitals "don't serve their kind here" is lower than the odds of getting hit in the head by a meteor while winning the lottery. Most importantly, it doesn't matter how much medical "knowledge" you have, if you don't have a sterile environment, the right drugs, a few extra pair of well washed hands, the machine that goes ping, an IV bag, and most importantly the right drugs. You cannot just make these yourself and keep them on hand. Plastic tubes for example have an expiration date and if they go past that they'll snap, break, or leak plastic bits into places you probably don't want it.

Its possible I might be convinced that big government is worse than letting a racist biggot not serve people in a restaurant, but telling someone to suck it up and treat their own heart attack? I can't tell if you're pushing Poes law or reality is unrealistic. If you were presented as a 1950s villian i would demand my money back for shoddy writing.

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ElterAgo wrote:

Agreed. Heavy fog would count as the cover or concealment that would allow you to sneak around. I can think of only 1 PFS scenario that I have been in that had heavy fog.

And if its the one i'm thinking of, that fog was there PRECISELY so that a rogue had an excuse to sneak right up next to party members and gank them. Thats the kind of terrain advantage I['m talking about when it comes to NPC vs PC stealth tactics.

Shadow Lodge ***

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Seth Gipson wrote:


You only need 80 more. :P

Music

Spoiler:
By ghoul been paralyzed
Cry elsewhere they advised
Won’t explode now like I should

Got Burried in debree
And then drowned in the sea
I’m leaving now for my own good

That's cool, but if my friends ask where you are Tell Aram Zey
That's cool, but if my friends ask where you are Tell Aram Zey
We went down through a storm drain
Died in my last stand
Fell in a death trap squisher full of quicksand
Help me, help me, I'm all out of allies
She met a shark under water
Fell and no one caught her
Matrimony to a blackros daughter
Help me, help me, I'm all out of lies
And ways to say you died

My skin still feels the sting
From veneom on that thing
Not to mention fungal spores
Got captured by gnoll clans
Leave me that’s the plan?
Their poetry was sheer torture

That's cool, but if my friends ask where you are tell Aram Zey

You was caught in a mudslide
Pounced by a lion
Got mind blasted by a third edition Psion
Help me, help me, I'm all out of allies!
I dried up in the desert
Tripped by a wolf cub
Bashed to death by an ogre with a greatclub
Help me, help me, I'm all out of allies
And ways to say you died

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Are the pathfinders the good guys? No.

Are they the BETTER guys? Yes.

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[initiates pup feeding response]

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ElterAgo wrote:


Well in the particular example I was thinking of the 30' castle walls on top of the hill puts the sneaking characters far enough from the light that most GM's were calling it a very dim light condition.

The torch isn't the problem.

Low-Light Vision

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. Low-light vision is color vision. A spellcaster with low-light vision can read a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to him as a source of light.

Characters with low-light vision can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.

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Can anyone poke a hole in the dancing lights signal game? If you've got a strait 5 foot cooridoor it will light up the party... but if not i have an idea i want to try with it

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ElterAgo wrote:


So yes, in the dark of night you can sneak up to the castle wall.

Not in a D&D universe you can't. This humancentric approach is where so many things go wrong with the people trying to stealth. You're acting as if the ability to see in the dark is some rare, special ability when in fact its human(and halfling) night blindness that's the freaky exception.

To a human rogue that expanse of lawn between the castle* is a dark murky abyss great to hide in. For the elf, half elf, and every creature on golarion right down to the castles spit dog it looks like the lights are on in wriggly field.

* thats WHY there's a big open field around the castle: so your archers have cover and theirs don't.

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2 people marked this as a favorite.
Seth Gipson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
A Medium-Sized Animated Object wrote:
BNW, what's your beef, man? Like, you're attacking different aspects of this thing, but what's your thesis?
That when trying to stealth, there are 87 different things that can go wrong so one of them is very likely to.

87? Pffft. There's 2.

1. You get seen.
2. You get heard.

:P

You get smelled

You get blindsighted
you get blindsensed
You get detect magicked
You get tremorsensed

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deusvult wrote:


Have the scout carry the first pebble in a slightly open bag. When that light goes out, the scout knows the Clanks alots are inbound. Turning the signal around in that way may make the whole idea even easier to swallow for the rest of the party; they're not waiting for the rogue.. they're telling the rogue "ready or not... HERE WE COME"

Two problems: 1) having a slightly open bag with a lightrock in it is a bad idea in a cave. If a rogue can see the light then you're going to stand out like a beacon in a cave. 2) The party telling you what they're doing is easy, a scout has to send information the other way.

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