Red Mantis Assassin and Spellcraft

Is it an oversight that the Red Mantis Assassin prestige class doesn't have Spellcraft as a class skill? I can't think of another spellcasting class in Pathfinder (even other 4-levels classes like paladin and ranger) that doesn't have it as a class skill.

Semi-related to that, if whoever designed the new/Pathfinder version/conversion of that class is around, I'd be really interested to hear the thought process of converting it. There are a number of abilities that stayed thematically similar that I look at and think, "This got weaker in this way, but stronger in this way, and I'm not really sure if this is overall stronger or weaker than before, or not" which is really interesting and unique to me from a design/balance perspective.

Assasins have very little use for spellcraft, they don't use their spells for counterspelling, and the general mode of operation for an assassin is to to strike a wizard down before they get a chance to cast anything.

So turning the question on it's head, Would an assasin have the NEED for spellcraft anywhere near the level of a full caster? If so, why?

So turning the question on it's head, Would an assasin have the NEED for spellcraft anywhere near the level of a full caster? If so, why?

... did you read my post? It wasn't even that long of a post.

Paladins and rangers have spellcraft. Everything you've said pretty much applies to them.

LazarX wrote:

So turning the question on it's head, Would an assasin have the NEED for spellcraft anywhere near the level of a full caster? If so, why?

... did you read my post? It wasn't even that long of a post.

Paladins and rangers have spellcraft. Everything you've said pretty much applies to them.

The case can be said that that the latter two classes are far more mystically inclined, even if they don't have a greater amount of spell slots to show for it. Personally I've never bothered with as much as one point in spellcraft for either to those two.

Personally, I think the Paladin and Ranger have them as class skills because of holdover from 3.5. I personally don't see any need for it. Something to keep in mind though, Paladins have considerably fewer skill points to spend, maybe 1 or 2 points is all that most will apply in a career.

But suppose they were given as a class skill for the Assassin. Could you really see yourself investing heavily in skill points for spellcraft anyway?

Now that I think about it, Fly seems like a curious omission too: first because they can cast Fly (which the justification for wizards/sorcerers to get it), second because they can turn into a form that flies (which is the justification for druids to get it), and third because it's one of the only skills monster mantises actually get.

Red Mantis assassins already get a pretty healthy skill list—one that skews things toward a rouge-like set of skills. They can certainly take Spellcraft and Fly (remember—penalties for non-class skills in Pathfinder are SIGNIFICNATLY less than in 3.5—the difference being a mere +3 points—such that at higher levels the difference between the two grows less and less)... but they're not particularly ABOUT flying or spellcraft. They learn their spells automatically, so don't need Spellcraft to function as a class (unlike, say, wizards or magi), and they're not particularly into crafting magic items or identifying items or spells—they have people back at home base to do that for them, generally. Mostly clerics of Achaekek.

I can see that angle, too. Thanks for chiming in.

(Although I think paladins and rangers generally aren't item crafters / identifiers / counterspellers either, they at least do have unique spell lists to give them some amount of demand as crafters.)

rouge-like

Typos like this make me blush as they tend to lipstick out. It's not like eye shadow your posts looking for them, but the boards are no concealer from such base errors. Fortunately, you're only one edit away from makeup and your foundation is secure. I guess this post means I mascara 'bout you.

James Jacobs wrote:

rouge-like

Typos like this make me blush as they tend to lipstick out. It's not like eye shadow your posts looking for them, but the boards are no concealer from such base errors. Fortunately, you're only one edit away from makeup and your foundation is secure. I guess this post means I mascara 'bout you.

You won the internets!

I just make Spellcraft checks into Knowledge checks, anyway, so it's a moot point in my games.