I'm running a RotRL campaign starting day after tomorrow. So far I have been focusing on reading the backstory and general overview, but I knew I was going to need to work on the encounters a bit. (I'm running it under PFRPG rules.)
Now, I was using Sean Mahoney's level up guide but when I started adding up xp it seemed WAY underdone - I wound up being only 3/5ths of the way to level 2 for a party of four. (I'm using xp rather than story levels because I'm trying a new strategy for player-corrected table issues - basically, players award some of the xp however they want, so a problem player quickly loses his ability to outshine the group.)
So to beef up the encounters before Part Three, I made the following changes:
Initial Assault: 6 goblins instead of three.
Goblin Pyros: 6 goblins, and the warchanter is a level 2 bard.
Die, Dog, Die!: 6 goblins, and the commando is a level 2 ranger.
Shopkeeper's Daughter: Leaving as is, but allowing a nonlethal fight with the father for the award as well.
Boar Hunt: Using a full sized boar, so EL 2.
Monster in the Closet: Increased to level 3 ranger.
This will give the players a total of 5430xp before Part Three, but some of that seems a little tough. For example, Die, Dog, Die! comes out to EL 5, and even Goblin Pyros is EL 4 now, though none of the individual monsters in either encounter exceeds CR 1.
Does this seem too tough to anyone else?
*facepalm*
I had been thinking of the glassworks as part of the Catacombs of Wrath. OTOH, both Shopkeeper's Daughter and Boar Hunt are somewhat up to the players, so they shouldn't be included.
Recalculating now.
Initial Assault - 4 Goblins
Goblin Pyros - Warchanter is level 2, and 5 goblins
Die, Dog, Die! - Commando is level 2, and 5 goblins, plus goblin dog
Monster in the Closet - Gresgurt is level 2
Against the Goblins - Tsuto with 9 goblins
For a 4 character party it definitely seems too much. Basicaly you are making every single encounter a lifethreatening encounter.
For the sake of pace and the dynamics of story telling you need to have downs as well as ups.
I think your problem might be that you are not using the fast advancement xp table, which the RotRL is designed for.
As far as the way you award XP, I must admit that I strongly disagree with that practice, but that is something for another thread.
I think your problem might be that you are not using the fast advancement xp table, which the RotRL is designed for.
I am using the fast, which means each player needs 1300 to reach level 2. I had just missed an encounter.
I may wind up having an extra player, for a total of 5. If so, I'll just add in 10 more goblins, probably scattered through the Glassworks in two groups.
Okay, I think I have this down. If I have five players, then in order to get them to level 2 they need a total of 6500xp (1300 per person). There are only five encounters I can be certain of them doing. I also added story awards (EL 3) for Parts One and Two. Only two encounters are EL 4 and above, one of which is the "boss fight". No NPC has more than 4 class levels.
Initial Assault (EL 1) - 405xp
- 3 Goblin Warriors (405xp)
Goblin Pyros (EL 3) - 805xp
- Goblin Warchanter: Bard 2 (400xp)
- 3 Goblin Warriors (405xp)
Die, Dog, Die! (EL 4) - 1205xp
- Goblin Commando: Ranger 2 (400xp)
- Goblin Dog (400xp)
- 3 Goblins (405xp)
Part One (EL 3) - 800xp
- Story Award (800xp)
Monster In The Closet (EL 3) - 800xp
- Gresgurt: Ranger 4 (800xp)
Part Two (EL 3) - 800xp
- Story Award (800xp)
Against the Goblins (EL 5)
- Tsuto: Rogue 2/Monk 2 (800xp)
- 7 Goblin Warriors (945xp)
Total XP: 6560
It looks about right.
I'm remaking several NPCs from scratch, since I'm having to level them up anyhow, so I figured I'd post them here for others to use. So far, none of these encounters has been particularly challenging for my party of five, but your mileage may vary. Note that I haven't used Gresgurt or Tsuto yet. Let me know if you spot any problems. NPCs using heroic levels get full hp at first level, and each enemy has it's first class as a favored class.
Goblin Warchanter (Bard 2)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 1
DEFENSES
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 18 (2d8+4)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +4
OFFENSE
Speed 30ft.
Melee dogslicer +1 (1d4/19–20)
Melee whip +1 (1d2 nonlethal)
Ranged shortbow +5 (1d4-1/x3)
Special Attacks: bardic performance (7 rounds); countersong; fascinate; distraction; inspire courage +1
Spells Known:
0 (DC 11) - Daze; Flare; Light; Prestidigitation; Resistance
1 (DC 12) - Confusion, Lesser; Grease; Hideous Laughter (3/day)
STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 12
Feats: Agile Maneuvers
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Intimidate +6, Perform(Sing) +6, Stealth +16; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages: Goblin
SQ: bardic knowledge +1; well versed; versatile performance
Combat Gear: potion of cure light wounds
Other Gear: studded leather, whip, dogslicer, shortbow with 20 arrows, 20 gp
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Goblin Commando (Ranger 2)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 6
DEFENSES
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size) !-2 for first two rounds!
hp 19 (2d10+2) !+2 for first two rounds!
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +1 !+1 fort and will for first two rounds!
OFFENSE
Speed 30ft.
Melee masterwork horsechopper +4 (1d8+1/x3) !+1 attack/damage for first two rounds!
Ranged shortbow +6 (1d4/x3)
Ranged mounted shortbow +2 (1d4/x3)
Special Attacks: favored enemy (animals) +2
STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 16 !+1 CMB/CMD for first two rounds!
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Mounted Combat
Skills: Handle Animal +4, Perception +6, Ride +13, Stealth +19, Survival +6; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages: Goblin
SQ: track; wild empathy
Combat Gear: potion of rage (used)
Other Gear: studded leather, masterwork horsechopper, small wooden shield, shortbow with 20 arrows
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Gresgurt (Ranger 3/Barbarian 1)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 8
DEFENSES
AC 19, touch 16, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size, +1 Dodge) !-2 while raging!
hp 38 (3d10+1d12+8) !+8 while raging!
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +2 !+2 fort and will while raging!
OFFENSE
Speed 40ft.
Melee knife +5 (1d3+1/19-20) !+2 to attack and damage while raging!
Special Attacks: favored enemy (animals) +2; rage (6 rounds)
STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +4; CMB +4; CMD 18 !+2 to CMB/CMD while raging!
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Mounted Combat, Endurance, Dodge
Skills: Handle Animal +5, Perception +8, Ride +14, Stealth +21, Survival +8; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages: Goblin
SQ: track; wild empathy; favored terrain (forest) +2, fast movement
Combat Gear:
Other Gear: studded leather, knife
NOTE: Gresgurt is basically a leveled up goblin commando, and his feat choices reflect this. It is his poor fortune to be lacking a mount and proper gear. You may want to reduce his CR by 1 since he is fighting under unfavorable conditions.
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Tetsuo Kaijitsu
LE Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +11
DEFENSES
AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex, +2 Wis, +1 Dodge, +1 ring of prot.)
hp 27 (4d8+6)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +5
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Unarmed Strike +6 (1d6+1)
Flurry of Blows +4/+4 (1d6+1)
Composite Shortbow +5 (1d6+1/x3)
Special Attacks: Sneak attack +1d6; Stunning Fist (2/day; DC 14)
STATISTICS
Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Attack +2 (+3 unarmed); CMB +3 (+4 unarmed); CMD 17
Feats: Skill Focus (Acrobatics); Improved Unarmed Strike; Dodge; Stunning Fist; Weapon Finesse; Combat Reflexes; Acrobatic; Mobility
Skills: Acrobatics +15, Perception +11, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Sense Motive +9, Stealth +10; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages: Common, Elven, Goblin
SQ: immune to sleep; +2 saves vs. enchantments; trapfinding; evasion
Combat Gear: potion of cure light wounds
Other Gear: composite shortbow (+1 strength); ring of protection +1; masterwork thieves' tools; masterwork flute; silver earings (25gp for the pair); journal; 6 pouches of gold dust (50gp each); 8 pouches silver dust (5gp each); 10pp
I'm remaking several NPCs from scratch, since I'm having to level them up anyhow, so I figured I'd post them here for others to use. So far, none of these encounters has been particularly challenging for my party of five, but your mileage may vary. Note that I haven't used Gresgurt or Tsuto yet. Let me know if you spot any problems. NPCs using heroic levels get full hp at first level, and each enemy has it's first class as a favored class.
Goblin Warchanter (Bard 2)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 1
DEFENSES
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 18 (2d8+4)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +4OFFENSE
Speed 30ft.
Melee dogslicer +1 (1d4/19–20)
Melee whip +1 (1d2 nonlethal)
Ranged shortbow +5 (1d4-1/x3)
Special Attacks: bardic performance (7 rounds); countersong; fascinate; distraction; inspire courage +1
Spells Known:
0 (DC 11) - Daze; Flare; Light; Prestidigitation; Resistance
1 (DC 12) - Confusion, Lesser; Grease; Hideous Laughter (3/day)STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 12Feats: Agile Maneuvers
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Intimidate +6, Perform(Sing) +6, Stealth +16; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 StealthLanguages: Goblin
SQ: bardic knowledge +1; well versed; versatile performance
Combat Gear: potion of cure light wounds
Other Gear: studded leather, whip, dogslicer, shortbow with 20 arrows, 20 gp--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Goblin Commando (Ranger 2)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 6
DEFENSES
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size) !-2 for first two rounds!
hp 19 (2d10+2) !+2 for first two rounds!
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +1 !+1 fort and will for first two rounds!OFFENSE
Speed 30ft.
Melee masterwork horsechopper +4 (1d8+1/x3) !+1 attack/damage for first two rounds!
Ranged shortbow +6 (1d4/x3)
Ranged mounted shortbow +2...
We have a 5 PC + 1 NPC group. And I'm running the Slow XP pregression, so we've had a LOT of changes.
3 of the PCs played Into the Haunted Woods as a startup, so they had a few XP, but I beefed up or changed most of the encounters.
Attack on Sandpoint: (Initial Assault, Pyros, and Die Dog Die.)
Total of 3 Warchanters, 1 commando, 2 goblin Dogs, 16 goblins, and Brunkel (the Goblin Torturer Fighter 2/ Rogue 1 mentioned in Thistletop as having been killed by the Sherrif during the assault. I thought it would be more interesting to have the players fight him instead. Much more fun!)
There were a LOT more role playing encounters (including a Giant Crab that attacked a foolish player who decided to sleep on the beach at night, visits/ conflicts with a few of the locals including the brothel madam, etc.) and an Attic Whisperer in the Orphanage, leveling up Gresgurt to Ranger 2, and even the Sandpoint Devil. (Under Chopper's Isle...The heroes have SERIOUSLY gone off plot for a while, but that's OK...)
I'll probably add in some other adventures (use Shelelu's link to Celwynvian to get the heroes involved in the battle of Celwynvian from Second Darkness #3 between Skinsaw and Hook Mountain, maybe dag them off to the Keep of the Everflame...with the slow progression, there's lots of room for extra adventures.)
I'm trying to avoid too much off-the-path stuff. I'd love to do it, but it is just that much more work for me as a DM. I'm working and going to school (18 credit hours) and at least for this semester I can't spend too much time making really good adventures. I'd rather give my players a shorter good game than a longer mediocre one.
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(I'm using xp rather than story levels because I'm trying a new strategy for player-corrected table issues - basically, players award some of the xp however they want, so a problem player quickly loses his ability to outshine the group.)
Could you clarify this statement Derek? I am curious what you mean by players dividing xp as they want in relation to a problem player.
And does outshining the group mean lucky d20 rolls or something personality based?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
(I'm using xp rather than story levels because I'm trying a new strategy for player-corrected table issues - basically, players award some of the xp however they want, so a problem player quickly loses his ability to outshine the group.)Could you clarify this statement Derek? I am curious what you mean by players dividing xp as they want in relation to a problem player.
And does outshining the group mean lucky d20 rolls or something personality based?
Basically, what I do is award 80% of the earned experience, and then each player gives out the remaining 20% to other players as they choose. For example, if the group of five has earned 1000 experience, then each of them gets 160xp, and a budget of 40xp that they award to others. Now, if each of them equally divide it four ways, everyone winds up with 200xp anyhow. But this hasn't been the case.
So far, it has gone really well - we have had rewards for good roleplay, for awesome combat moves, for the usage of very limited resources, or for some timely assistance on healing. We also had someone get docked xp for hitting his allies with a splash weapon, and for falling asleep during the game.
Now, it is still an experiment, so I haven't seen other scenarios tested. For example, if someone misses a session, they would get no xp. But if other players are feeling generous, the person who missed can quickly get back up to par. If a player pisses off all the other players, he winds up getting docked experience, and if he makes everyone happy, he levels up more quickly. Note this isn't for all groups - my players quickly figured out they could use this as a type of savings club, to level one person very fast, either making fights easier or (to compensate) tougher with more experience. They opted not to do this, which is in part why I am using it: call it an exercise in applied game theory. (I'm a finance major with an economics concentration - this is actually fun for me to watch because I have in effect set up a nearly laissez-faire experience economy. If it works well, I might award all experience, rather than just 20%, this way in future campaigns.)
As for problems in the group, there are a few players who have less than stellar habits that I hope this will correct. I can't abandon the group, however - these people are my friends outside of roleplaying, and there aren't many gamers in the area in the first place, so we kind of have to take what we can get. Three problem players in particular spring to mind.
The first tends to be a bit bland, with a few nights of excellent roleplay. I'm hoping that is he gets rewarded more on the nights where he is more active, he'll want be active more often.
The second has an opposite problem - he always sees himself as the main character, and tends to be a glory hog. He'll allow for others to do cool things if he can't do them, but ultimately the other players are support to him. One game we set up was designed to alternate GMs, so everyone had a character. When he ran the game, there was a situation where a character used intimidate to demoralize a foe and make him surrender. It would have worked, and the fight would have been won, but the problem player decided he liked the idea, but his character could do it better. So even though the fight should have been won, he waited until his character could make the intimidate check and declared the original to be an assist on his check. I'm hoping that if he tries to steal the show during my campaign, the other players will reward him less.
The third problem player has a problem similar to the second, except he doesn't act to steal the show, he just gets bored and stops paying attention when he isn't the center of attention. Many games, he simply falls asleep at the table if he isn't the focus. This happens regardless of who runs the game, so I know it isn't poor GMing on my part. Worse, when he does have the focus, he tends to do absolutely retarded things and doesn't take the game seriously, which tends to ruin it for the rest of us. In his case, I doubt experience penalties will help, but if his character is so poor compared to the others that he never has a chance to shine, he'll eventually either shape up or ship out. (I'd kick him out now, but that might cause poor relations between me and two of the other people in the group.) As a corollary, I suspect this will continue to be a problem until he actually gets to run a game, but since all his ideas suck that won't happen soon. (Him: "I'm going to base it on the Myst games..." Us: "That could be interesting." Him: "...but I'm going to mix in elements of Star Trek and Dragonforce!" Us: "Well, count us out.")
Given the ease with which my players defeated the early encounters, I'm okay with more difficult challenges. Therefore, I have decided to use a new level scheme, which brings the AP all the way to 20th level.
Level 2 - Before Heading into the Catacombs of Wrath
Level 3 - Just before Thistletop
Level 4 - End of Burnt Offerings
Level 5 - Just before Misgivings
Level 6 - End of Misgivings
Level 7 - Beginning of Shadows of Time
Level 8 - End of Skinsaw Murders
Level 9 - After Graul Farmstead
Level 10 - After retaking the Fort
Level 11 - After the Dam
Level 12 - End of Hook Mountain Massacre
Level 13 - Reaching Jorgenfist
Level 14 - End of Fortress of the Stone Giants
Level 15 - After the Catacombs of Wrath pt. 2
Level 16 - Entering the Runeforge
Level 17 - End of Sins of the Saviors
Level 18 - Entering Xin-Shalast
Level 19 - Entering the Pinnacle of Avarice
Level 20 - Beginning fight with Karzoug
This will require rebalancing the challenges, as I did above. I'm still sticking to the following rules: only 1 encounter with an EL of APL+4, and no NPC with four or more class levels above the APL. Given all this, the following should bring the party from level 2 to level 3.
Guard Cave (EL 4) - 1200xp
- 2 Sinspawn (1200xp)
Washing Pool (EL 5) - 1800xp
- Vargouille (600xp)
- 2 Sinspawn (1200xp)
Ancient Prison (EL 5) - 1800xp
- 3 Sinspawn (1800xp)
Prisoner Pits (EL 5) - 1600xp
- Koruvus: Fighter 4, Giant Template (1200xp)
- 11 Zombies (400xp)
Cathedral of Wrath (EL 6) - 2400xp
- Erylium: Cleric 3/Rogue 2 (2400xp)
Part Three (EL 4) - 1200xp
- Story Award (1200xp)
Total XP: 10000xp
XP/Player: 2000xp
Tough? Yes, but certainly doable. I'll post my rebuilds of Koruvus and Erylium when I finish them.
Koruvus (Fighter 4; Giant Template)
CE Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception 1
DEFENSES
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 13 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, +1 Dodge)
hp 38 (4d10+12)
Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear)
OFFENSE
Speed 30ft.
Melee +1 longsword +8 (1d8+5/19-20) and
masterwork handaxe +7 (1d6+2/x3) and
silver dagger +6 (1d4+2/19-20)
Special Attacks: Breath weapon (20 ft. line, 2d4 acid + nausea, Reflex DC 15 for half and Fort DC 15 for no nausea, usable every 1d4 rounds)
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 21
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Dodge, Weapon Focus (longsword), Multiweapon Fighting
Skills: Intimidate 3; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages: Goblin
SQ: Armor training, bravery
Other Gear: +1 longsword, masterwork handaxe, silver dagger
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Erylium (Cleric 3/Rogue 2)
CE tiny outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
DEFENSES
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, +2 size)
hp 55 (3d10+5d8+16); fast healing 2
Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +7
DR 5/cold iron or good; Immune electricity, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., fly 50 ft. (perfect)
Melee 2 claws +10 (1d3+1 plus poison), bite +10 (1d4+1)
Ranged +1 Returning tiny dagger +12 (1d2+2/19-20)
Special Attacks: Channel Energy 2d6; Touch of Evil; Sneak Attack +1d6; Bleeding Attack 1
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th)
At will — detect good, detect magic, invisibility (self only)
1/day — cause fear (30-foot radius, DC 11)
1/week — commune (six questions)
Cleric Spells (CL 3rd)
Orisons - Resistance, Bleed, Light, Guidance
1st (3+1; DC 12) - Cause Fear, Obscuring Mist, Summon Monster I (already cast), Protection from Good(D)
2nd (2+1; DC 13) - Hold Person, Summon Monster II, Align Weapon: Evil(D)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +6; CMB +5; CMD 18
Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Augment Summoning, Improved Natural Armor
Skills: Bluff +9, Fly +26, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Perception +7, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +21
Languages: Abyssal, Common; telepathy (touch); Thassilonian
SQ: change shape (bat, Small centipede; polymorph); aura; domains (Trickery, Evil); orisons; channel energy 2d6; spontaneous inflict; trapfinding; evasion
Other Gear: +1 returning dagger, miniature tiara worth 50 gp, miniature black silk gown worth 25 gp, obsidian unholy symbol of Lamashtu worth 10 gp
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Poison (Ex)
Claw — injury; save Fortitude DC 15; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Dexterity; cure 2 consecutive saves.
Touch of Evil (Sp)
You can cause a creature to become sickened as a melee touch attack. Creatures sickened by your touch count as good for the purposes
of spells with the evil descriptor. This ability lasts for 1 round. You can use this ability 4 times per day.
Copycat (Sp)
You can create an illusory double of yourself as a move action. This double functions as a single Mirror Image and lasts
for 3 rounds, or until the illusory duplicate is dispelled or destroyed. You can have no more than one copycat at a time.
This ability does not stack with the Mirror Image spell. You can use this ability 4 times per day.
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I didn't take Koruvus's acid spit into account for his CR, but I'm not sure it alone would increase it by enough to matter. I also didn't use corruptions for Erylium - she doesn't seem to need them, and giving her acid spit would be a waste of time. Too much for her to do already! :D