Of Kings and Commoners - Kingmaker AP

Game Master RPGGGM

Someone get the giants gear..!!!

I was wondering if anyone would ask! ;)

(You would have gotten it's worth in bank regardless.)

I'm pretty sure folks can ID most of the following by taking 10, so:

BIG DUMB AUCHS LOOT

Appraise: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (8) + 4 = 12
Scarlet has no idea how much these toys are worth. She'll try tomorrow.

So to discuss: I've highlighted the paths on the second page of the regional folio.

The white path goes through a lot of rough unknown territory, and might take longer than going the long way around the Hooktongue Slough.

The red path (Makdoon’s path) skirts the swamp, and keeps to the plains with a stop over at a trading camp at the delta of the Lake Hooktongue.

The green path starts at that trading post and becomes a raft ride that navigates the swamp, Sellen River and its tributaries down to Mivon.

There are other possible paths heading south from where you are now, however they would require finding a path (bridge, ford, etc...) across some of the more treacherous rivers that cross your path. Also you have to move through some dangerous unexplored terrain and pass close to the Stag Lord's fort.

If he's going to be calling anyone from that genre it might as well be Cthulhu.

But...but...no plant pun...that's why Sh_r_ub Niggurath...for the Leshy Caller...

Scarlet's all for the red path.

Wait! We need to get Erevenywg! We gotta go back!

So... green path?

Or we could just head to the Stag Lord's Fort at this point.

If we have a look and think we can't crack it on our own, we go around and meet Makdoon in Mivon. We're half way to Mivon already.

Oh well...if we must, we can pick up Erevenywg - I did hope we had forgotten about her. *cheeky grin*

That said, with that nasty Elf escaped, I think infiltration is off the table, and I doubt a frontal assault would do much good considering what we saw last time...since they will likely be on high(er?) alert for the inmediate future, I would prefer not passing too close to the Fort, and instead surprise them with Makdoon's band from the South.

So, I'll go with red...that allow us to actually catch up with him since we'll have faster overland-movement - which, I assume, we will be better able to utilize on red than on green/raft ride.
And since we won't take the time to actually explore the fields, white seems less appealing, as well.

Question - Were the bandit's tethered horses merely part of the illusion or are they real?

Illthir has been trying to poke at them for a while now since that wasn't clear but not much seems to be coming from that ...

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I'll have to take some time to look at the map and give my opinion on that tomorrow.

But another question on that topic - why do we need the fairy to fetch the mercs?

I see no reason that we need to go get Erevenywg. She did cast some beneficial spells on Scarlet, but we can probably live without those in the future.

But it was always the plan to scout out the Stag Lord's fort first, and the need for that hasn't changed. The Stag Lord's forces will be aware that we're nearby. So what? We were always going to have to do some sneaking around, and they were already looking for us.

But we've already established that:
A: We do not have enough money to pay Makdoon's band for even a week, and
B: The Swordlords will not be willing to pick up the tab.

Meanwhile the trip back to Oleg's, around the Narlmarches to Mivon, and then back to the Stag Lord's fort will take weeks. The Stag Lord's army could easily march north and flatten the trading post in that time. We know that is what they are planning. Which means we cannot be wasting time.

So even if we raise more cash or find a way to haggle with Makdoon, we still spend weeks of in-game time just so we can hire someone else to resolve the adventure for us, and at the same time we give the bad guys the chance to destroy even more stuff.

We are RIGHT THERE! Right next door to where the BBEG is sitting. And we are at the experience level we are supposed to be at when the module ends. And you don't even want to look?

This campaign has been running for more than three years now IRL and I am getting impatient to get the first book over with. At our current speed we will not finish the campaign until 2033. Let's stop pushing the goalposts further away.

Question - Were the bandit's tethered horses merely part of the illusion or are they real?

Illthir has been trying to poke at them for a while now since that wasn't clear but not much seems to be coming from that ...

Sorry, busy few weeks. They are just off-map, and as you can imagine after the long chase mostly played out. However... cleric.

You could also spend time in the daylight trying to collect some of the horses you lost as well.

Edit What Numalar said in the game play thread about 2 hours ago. ;)

Yeah if Makdoons group wants a contract they can come to us.

We should go scout...

We just almost got people murdered by a single Leutnant of Staggie.
And you want to go rush in "because we are the right level"?

For what it's worth, in my opinion the issue is not that we are pushing the goalposts away, it's that every time something you don't want gets suggested, we have an endless discussion about it.

If you check the map and see the distance we made in ONE day, INCLUDING tracking and a delayed start for half the group: Using Ilthirs powers, we could easily be in Mivon in less than a week and start marching north. Not "weeks".

For what it's worth, Mercenaries flattening the outer resistance and clearing a path for us to heroically charge in and slay the BBEG could actually be significantly faster than scouting around and waiting for an opportunity.
Worse if we don't find a opening we can utilize because they upped security. Then we spend the next 2 real-life months sneaking around the fort and scouting before resorting to using superior force anyway.

So ultimately, you are basing the decision on the meta-assumption that "we are the right level", that there WILL be an opening in their security, and that since we are hero-protagonists, we must be able to resolve this by ourselves.
In that case, why even argue about it. Yeah, Level 4 sounds about right, lets go in and drop any other sidequests or subplots - RPGGGM will not throw up a stop sign and instead give us some option to proceed in whatever approach we choose.
Maybe we can raid some outlaying bandit camp and wear their skin when we infiltrate the fort? Bluff says we can, right?

This endless discussion is making things seriously not fun for me.
So yeah, since you insist on your course of action anyway, lets go finish this book quickly or die trying. Win-Win, right?

Also note that despite the lenghty adventuring period, with Celyne missing Numalar and Zokon are the only ones with a charter.
Only you stand to gain from this, and only you have the clause of striving against banditry.
Illthir, Scarlet and Alia may go along because it's "the right thing to do", but risking their lives in an attempt to assassinate a dangerous crime lord in his stronghold? Would probably need some more motivation than "warm happy feeling inside for doing the right thing". (Plus, you need to take care of all the ambitious leutnants, too, else someone like Mr. Elf will step up and take the leadership position).

For Alia, one reason could be avenging her friends and retrieving the map guiding her to the hidden elven fortress she came into Telvurin for. But not knowing where that map is makes a non-frontal approach harder, as she'd likely have to check several different spots in the fort, preferably without being identified as intruder.

Whoa! That seems a bit too pointed.

True, you could move down to Mivon faster by using Illthir's abilities horses and lots of forced marching. And the team was almost flattened by TWO bandit lieutenants, and by going in mostly half-cocked against foes who were waiting for you.

For the record, the party can go to Mivon or to the fort. Both options are available and have their up-sides and down-sides. This doesn't have to be a long discussion, but you probably want to have a plan this time whatever you decide.

Right now there are two votes for going for mercs, and two votes for going to the Fort. It is, I will point out, possible to do both: scout the fort and then find a way south from there to Mivon. It would probably be good to get information on the fort regardless of whether the group goes it alone or with help.

On another note, I've been in contact with both Whtknt and Aldizog and both are going to submit characters. WhtKnt is at a local Con this weekend so I probably won't see anything form him until early next week.

Aye, apologies for the pointed wording, but I am feeling some serious frustration right now.

Also because of what I consider deceptive wording.
We are not going to "scout and just take a look".
Otherwise that clashes heavily with pushing goalposts further back and taking too long to get things done.
If we just take a look, then do something else, we will spend more time without accomplishing something except refreshing intel(and we could also scout ahead of the mercs when they prepare to move out...providing recon duty for them to direct them).
So we are going to go to the fort, and act on what we learn if there's any chance to do so at all. Since we're already there.
I'd prefer to not have it sugar-coated as a scouting mission to make it seem more appealing compared to the alternatives.
If we go in with the intent to act, then that should be the directive to begin with.
As in, "go to the fort and try to deal with the situation ourselves!" rather than "lets go take a look since we happen to be nearby".

Well I meant scout as GGGM's display of the overwhelming amount of bandits that there were when we first approached.

We almost got wiped out trying to ambush three of the Stag Lord's lackeys, and 2 of them escaped. That fort is on high alert now. How are we going to scout it? Heck when they were in low alert we bumped into a group and had to kill them. That's how Fat Norry blew up the trading post in the first place.

This ambush took several weeks of real time, so please don't say that NOW you're impatient. In that case we should have followed Makdoon to the mercenaries like I suggested in the place.

I gave a simple plan (hire the mercenaries, promise them a cut of the spoils, then we can march on the fort), the party ignored it and ran off ill-prepared. So here we are.

I really don't want to read another dozen walls of text. I made my vote. If we're deadlocked, GM just flip a coin so we can get a move on.

We have the new gear as extra collateral for the mercs?

We've been collecting gear and banking it for a while, surely we can dip into that and make a down payment. If we can't, I don't see any in character reason why the 4 of us + an NPC thinks they can take down an entire bandit fort when we couldn't ambush 3 of their members properly.

GM, can I make a suggestion? Maybe we just need to streamline some of this. It seems like every time we get a red pill and a blue pill we argue about the merits of both until a shiny green pill shows up. Just pick the route that gives us the best story, or fast forward us to the entrance of the Stag Lord's Fort with or without mercenaries.

I'm getting tired of us bickering over relatively insignificant choices.

I too am finding this very frustrating.

I don't want to draw out the argument so that's all I am going to say.

As to cash, I think I have to do an update, but part of the problem is that our available wealth is divided between the "bank" and the actual cash we are carrying. The cash we can spend, but the bank is used to "find" magic items, and I doubt we can spend that on hiring mercenaries.

Everyone seems frustrated at this point...
So lets make an effort to reduce talking. Lets get back to playing our characters and damned becthe consequences. I think this is a great game with a great gm so lets fix it.

@Money/Bank - I admit this is my main worry with that path. It would suck getting there and then realizing we can't actually *do* what we came for.

But! Can't we withdraw trade goods from the bank and pay with that?

Surely that's keeping in the spirit of things and soldiers were paid in salt at times right :P?

You can use bank find filthy lucre if you really want to.

I'm getting tired of us bickering over relatively insignificant choices.

This is one is not all that insignificant. But since we are basically there already, let's scout.

Also, I just want to add that I am personally a bit...agitated.
My Company lost a bit over a million € because something did not work properly for 2 days in february and I am heading the investigative process.
I found the reason for what happened, and 3 people are equally at fault for not realizing something was wrong with their respective systems/software/interface - but at the same time, I understand it was easily missable to any of them.
I will still have to point a finger on Monday and it was made abundantly clear that heads will roll. So basically it falls to me to decide who will lose their job. I am not feeling comfortable with this situation, and I believe this burden affects me in unrelated areas of my life.

So @Numalar: apologies if I came across too aggressively. It's true I want things to be expressed more straightforward, but I should possibly have put it more diplomatically.

Also, I already suggested a while back to put the mercenaries on my tab. Obviously, that's beyond my WBL, but I am willing to pay for them fully, over time.
@Scarlet: The idea of the pursuit was to make sure the one responsible for the bombing meets justice, and to weaken Staggies rooster. But yes, it failed, and I already concurred with returning to the original plan(which is still possible all the same, only we would need to catch up to Makdoon).

I will still have to point a finger on Monday...

Yikes. That is not fun at all.

I can relate... I used to be a manager at a chain of movie theatres and the other managers liked sticking me with the job of firing people. It was the least fun part of my job.

@Finger pointing - Mm, as mentioned elsewhere, that sucks. Let's hope it is as painless as possible!

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Question! Would our rest this night be restful enough for us to recover some hp (and spells)?

Yep!

knock knock. Anyone home?

"I'll take your pamphlets, but I can't talk right now because I am watching my program."

I'll give folks a few, and then if no one responds have them sneak off to find some heroic mercenaries to buy. Only because it is less likely to result in immediate danger.

Scarlet rushes in headfirst into the fort, yelling "COME AND GET ME, STAG LORD! I'LL TAKE YOU ALL ON!"

"THAT'S THE SPIRIT!"

In other news, Polly currently in Solstice Scar part B (and teamed with Lannior Llarm and Khellek the historian again) tried to "accidentally" leave the golden mask of Lai Ligau in the Blackros Museum after Gwen threatened to kick her out of their rooms at the Lodge if she didn't get rid of the thing. ;)

Oh, and she critical smited the bearded devil they had to fight on their way out.

Noted :P

For your perusal and commentary:

I'll push us ahead in about 8 hours.

Hmm hmm hmm.

Couldn't we just grab both and have a spare for when the Stag Lord decides to send assassins again?

I mean choosing is hard!

I seem more drawn to the half elf than the plain but effective Dwarf cleric.

I dunno, Durgan the Dwarf sounds like a laid back cool guy.

I dunno, Durgan the Dwarf sounds like a laid back cool guy.

I like Durgan's story and it is connected to what is going on here. Serena's story doesn't even say where she is from.

Mechanically I also think that what we need is one full Divine Caster that doesn't dip into other classes. I have no problem with Serena overall but she is 2 levels behind in casting and at the same time Durgan seems like he will be just as good in combat.

And I'd like a dwarf in the party. :)

And I'd like a dwarf in the party. :)

But you have Scarlet from the Fire Nation.

If you want to talk to the would-be recruits I told them to post in the recruitment thread.

Alright, last chance to chime in on the recruitment thread.

I think I have said all I have to say. Now I'm just patiently waiting for our new member(s?) to show up :-)

That's the trouble with democracy, everyone wants someone else to make the decisions for them. Hence, I guess that is why this is called Kingmaker and not Duly Elected Executive Official-maker. ;)

Well democracy is great. So great in fact that I simply cast two votes :-P

So to be clear: No one wants to storm the fort just now. Some people want to head south for mercenaries, but there is some curiosity about what's going on just now inside the fort, and some folks are considering sneaking in, right? Well, sneaking isn't really anything that clerics or paladin/clerics are traditionally good at so I think this one is on you guys.

As GM I can't really force you to take one action over the other (I would always default to the safe option just so the PCs don't die based on my decision and not your own).

Some help though; it is going to be dark, therefore the bandits (who seem to be all human--aside from Salzarus, will only be able to see as far as their light sources allow, while your party has people with darkvision in it as well as access to a limited amount of invisibility.

Stags have low-light vision too right? :-P

Yeah that summary seems mostly correct. No-one really seems to feel like sneaking into the camo right now though. Maybe they'll feel like it when the odds improve.

Otherwise I vote for us heading to Mivon :-)

After thoughts... I'd go for the Cleric, our group could be really enhanced by it and I like both characters and players.

I want to go get the mercs and then come back, Better to dissuade Mivon with a show of force and more likely to succeed.

I ain't sneaking back to that fort.. but evesdropping..

Edited for Ninja/Rangerish ninjaing Yeah, I think that's two three for Mivon, two one for finishing off Staggy now, and Scarlet.... .... .... Democracy. PHOOEY!

A decision! Mivon it is!

Here's hoping Alia's finger is feeling better.