Arcanist build concept - critique please


Advice


Ok, so I'm thinking of new character concepts for my next PC. I like to make my characters with both weaknesses and strengths. So they are min-maxed but not strictly for max kill in combat.

Last 2 campaigns we have had a lot of occasions when the group split up too fast for spells like haste or communal resist energy to get best effect. So that made me think of a caster with super high initiative to nearly always get a group buff off before the group scatters.

I'm thinking arcanist so I can spam spells as needed more than once a day. Foresight specialist wizard has some pretty kool abilities as well as huge initiative bonuses. Dreamspun sorcerer bloodline has significant initiative bonus and decent other abilities. This has got me thinking to have both. Blood Arcanist archetype to get the sorc bloodline. Then a single level of Foresight wizard with the School Understanding exploit for the wizard abilities (with a rabbit familiar for another +4 to initiative).

Pro: At 8th level I've got a +19 to initiative. I should usually go first with this.
Con: The biggest obvious is 8th level and still 3rd for highest spell level.
I think this is worth it. What do you think?

ZipZap:

Zip
Male elf blood arcanist 7/diviner (foresight[APG]) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 8, 77, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 145)
CG Medium humanoid (elf)
Hero Points 1
Init +19; Senses low-light vision; Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 42 (8d6+8)
Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +6; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Special Attacks arcane reservoir (11/17), arcanist exploits (quick study[ACG], school understanding[ACG]), consume spells
Bloodline Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +14)
. . 4/day—lullaby
Blood Arcanist Spells Prepared (CL 7th; concentration +14)
. . 3rd (4/day)—haste, pugwampi's grace (DC 19)
. . 2nd (6/day)—communal protection from evil[UC], see invisibility, web (DC 18)
. . 1st (6/day)—liberating command[UC], mage armor, shield, snapdragon fireworks[UM] (DC 17), vanish[APG] (DC 17)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound (DC 16), message, open/close (DC 16), ray of frost
. . Bloodline Dreamspun
Diviner Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +8)
. . 1st—endure elements, polypurpose panacea[UM], true strike, unprepared combatant[UM] (DC 17)
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, mage hand, prestidigitation
. . Opposition Schools Evocation, Necromancy
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 22, Wis 8, Cha 12
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 15
Feats Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Run, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration, Totem Spirit (shriikirri-quah)[ISWG]
Traits desperate resolve, seeker, warrior of old
Skills Acrobatics +3 (+7 to jump with a running start), Appraise +10, Bluff +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Craft (alchemy) +10, Diplomacy +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disguise +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Escape Artist +11, Fly +9, Intimidate +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +12, Knowledge (engineering) +12, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +12, Knowledge (nature) +12, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (planes) +17, Knowledge (religion) +12, Linguistics +17, Perception +11, Ride +6, Spellcraft +17 (+19 to identify magic item properties), Use Magic Device +12 (+10 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check); Racial Modifiers +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Ignan, Infernal, Necril, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon
SQ arcane bond (Arcane Familiar, rabbit), bloodline (dreamspun[APG]), elven magic, foretell (8 rounds/day), forewarned, hero points, prescience (9/day), vain
Other Gear arcanist starting spellbook, wizard starting spellbook
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Reservoir +1 DC or CL (17/day) (Su) Pool of points fuel exploits, or can expend to add +1 CL or DC while cast spell.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Consume Spells (1/day) (Su) As a move action, expend a spell slot to add its spell levels to arcane reservoir.
Dreamspun When you cast a spell at a single creature, gain +1/2 spell level AC and saves vs. that creature for 1r.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Evocation You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Evocation school.
Familiar Bonus: +4 to Initiative checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Foresight Associated School: Divination
Foretell (8 rounds/day) (Su) 30' aura either grants +2 luck bonus to allies or -2 luck penalty to enemies on ability checks, attack rolls, caster level checks, saving throws, and skill checks.
Forewarned 4 (Su) Can always act in surprise rounds.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Lullaby (4/day) (Sp) As lullaby but no concentration and penalty is -4.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Prescience (9/day) (Su) Roll a d20 at the beginning of the round, and use that result as the result of any other d20 roll before the next turn.
Quick Study (Ex) Use 1 reservoir as a full rd action, consult spellbook to switch out mem spell (provokes AoO).
Run Run 5x your speed in light/medium armor or 4x speed in heavy armor and keep Dex when running.
School Understanding Use 1 reservoir as a swift action to treat school ability at full level & gain other ability for 1 rds.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Vain -2 to Cha checks for 24h after failing an opposed Cha check

Thoughts, concerns, advice?


I am not sure that the +4 bonus to Init is worth a caster level on an arcainist. They are already behind in gaining spell level, this puts you down 2. In addition, the access to the higher-level spells, you also get fewer spells and they are less potent. Normally a spell cast by and arcainist is just as powerful as those cast by a sorcerer or wizard because they have full caster level.

The arcainist gets the best of both worlds for spell casting, but they also in a way get the worst of both worlds. They can spam out spells like a sorcerer, but also have the sorcerers slower progression. They have the flexibility of the wizard in changing out spell, but also have the wizards lesser number of spells per day. This means anything that increases a negative is worse than normal.

If you are playing an elf for access to warrior of old, you do not need to do so. Reactionary gives the same bonus to Init but is available to all races.

Even without the level of wizard, you would still be at +15 Init.


lol... just post your build and people will comment (generally negatively)...
= = =

> Zip Zap
> CG med hmnd elf (m) arcanist-Blood Arcnst 7, wizard-diviner(foresight) 1
this is a poor multiclass as the classes do not differ much.
Familiars are not a good choice for play above 8th level.

> Ability Scores: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 22, Wis 8, Cha 12
Assuming start at [8,16,12,18,8,12]=27 points (20 is standard). +2 Int race. +2 Int levels. Two 8's is a No.

your feat choices are not very efficient/good.

see
"Mäktiga Trollfor" by Azothath, 2026 party of (6) Lvl 5 arcane casters with details
some builds by Azothath, 2025
I've run Magnus Mactator (and several similar builds), Rouillé Hasarderth (and several similar builds), and Ludotys Libersacer with great success. I'm sad that you didn't look at my builds or some of the advice posts on wizards before you did yours... ahh well.


There is very little need to have a +19 to initiative. Anything higher than +12 is, in my opinion, way too much. Drop Improved Initiative and pick a better feat.

Changes I'd recommend:

Race: Take Half-Elf (unless you've got a real pressing desire to stay as a pure elf) so that you can take Multidisicplined as an alternate racial trait. That will help with your caster level on both classes. As will taking Magical Knack (Wizard) as a trait, leaving you with a caster level of 4 for the wizard side once you hit level 4.

Class(es): Take the Chronomancer archetype for your wizard (see below for familiar options). You seem eager to mess with probability. Why not add time manipulation in with it since it can help with your initiative focus and help you reclaim spells that don't work out.

Feats: Drop Improved Initiative and take Extra Arcanist Exploit (Familiar) if you are attached to having a familiar.

Familiar: Consider taking an archetype for your familiar (Protector is great for ensuring you can take a hit or two. Figment + Sage is great for adaptability and scouting, and Use Magic Device if you pick one with hands via the Skilled evolution.) You don't need the additional initiative boost from the familiar.

All in all, losing the improved initiative feat and the rabbit will cost you +8, putting you back down to +11. With Chronomancer, you can add another +1d4 if you want to spend a resource. That is probably where you should stop the push for initiative.

On a side note: Its perfectly fine to lose a level or two of spellcasting potential when you play at tables that don't involve an arm's race with the game master, and don't require tight character optimization.


Elf gives him +2 DEX, and +2 Caster level to overcome spell resistance. It also gives him elf weapon familiarity, but that really does not do much. He could take Elven Spirit at 1st level, but that costs a feat he does not need to spend as an elf. Multidiciplined does overcome most of the caster levels issues for the wizard, but he still is two levels behind in spell access and has fewer spells. At low levels the extra spells form the level of wizard will help, but once he is higher level they will become mostly useless.

He could remain elf, drop the level of Wizard and use an exploit to gain the rabbit familiar. Keep the improved Initiative. That drops his Initiative bonus to +15, which should still be high enough. That would put him with full caster level for all purposes except vs spell resistance, which would be two levels higher than his actual level.

The half elf is an improvement on the original build but is still behind in access to high level spells and number of spells. For an arcanist that is already behind in both those areas that is a steep price.


I would go
Elf School Savant (Foresight) Arcanist, and save the full level of your casting.

For initiative, it looks like from
Dex
Foresight: Forewarned
Feat: Improved Initiative
Elf Racial Trait: Fleet-Footed
Trait: Reactionary
Exploit: Familiar

You still end up at +19 initiative at level 8; which I agree with others above, that’s overkill (especially as divination school automatically goes in surprise round), so could reallocate trait and/or exploit as preferred.


Note that the arcanist FCB for an elf is +1 arcane reservoir points/level. And that's amazing.

The Exchange

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:
Note that the arcanist FCB for an elf is +1 arcane reservoir points/level. And that's amazing.

Did we ever get an official clarification on this FCB? I believe that the consensus was that the elf FCB raised your maximum by one point (but not the daily starting pool), and the gnome FCB raised your daily starting pool by 1/6 of a point (but not the maximum).

Wish they would fix forum search.


no, both are valid.

Arcanist FCO:

[PFS Legal] Elf (Advanced Class Guide pg. 69): Increase total number of points in the arcanist’s arcane reservoir by 1.
[PFS Legal] Gnome (Advanced Class Guide pg. 70): Add 1/6 to the number of points the arcanist gains in her arcane reservoir each day.

Arcn Pool[start(3 +⌊Arcn/2⌋), max(3 +Arcn)]
Arcane Reservoir (Su): An arcanist has an innate pool of magical energy that she can draw upon to fuel her arcanist exploits and enhance her spells. The arcanist’s arcane reservoir can hold a maximum amount of magical energy equal to 3 + the arcanist’s level. Each day, when preparing spells, the arcanist’s arcane reservoir fills with raw magical energy, gaining a number of points equal to 3 + 1/2 her arcanist level. Any points she had from the previous day are lost. She can also regain these points through the consume spells class feature and some arcanist exploits. The arcane reservoir can never hold more points than the maximum amount noted above; points gained in excess of this total are lost.
Points from the arcanist reservoir are used to fuel many of the arcanist’s powers. In addition, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a free action whenever she casts an arcanist spell. If she does, she can choose to increase the caster level by 1 or increase the spell’s DC by 1. She can expend no more than 1 point from her reservoir on a given spell in this way.

Analysis:
An Arcane Pool point is a Spell Level.
Elf: raise Max by 1... *meh*. You still have to use Consume (limited by CHA bonus) to charge the pool using spell slots (or maybe consumables or charges) AND then the time (mov or std) to do so.
Gnome: raise start by 1 for 6HPs, a very poor choice.
= = = end = = =

I think FCOs are a hard choice costing 1 HP, especially for a class getting 1d6HP/Lvl and a Con 12 at best. I'd never base a PC design choice on FCOs.


Azothath wrote:
I think FCOs are a hard choice costing 1 HP, especially for a class getting 1d6HP/Lvl and a Con 12 at best. I'd never base a PC design choice on FCOs.

I am constantly surprised at how very different my design philosophy is from those I meet online. I value skill points far more than hit points when it comes to favored class bonuses, and unique favored class bonuses above skill points. A simple feat makes up for the entire twenty levels of taking the hit point option, or boosting your constitution score. Same could be said about boosting your intelligence. Getting effectively three new feats (+1/6 extra X option) is far and away in a different playing field.

That being said, I tend to favor the half-elf far more than any other, so weigh my bias appropriately.


DeathlessOne wrote:
Azothath wrote:
I think FCOs are a hard choice costing 1 HP, especially for a class getting 1d6HP/Lvl and a Con 12 at best. I'd never base a PC design choice on FCOs.

I am constantly surprised at how very different my design philosophy is from those I meet online. I value skill points far more than hit points when it comes to favored class bonuses, and unique favored class bonuses above skill points. A simple feat makes up for the entire twenty levels of taking the hit point option, or boosting your constitution score. Same could be said about boosting your intelligence. Getting effectively three new feats (+1/6 extra X option) is far and away in a different playing field.

That being said, I tend to favor the half-elf far more than any other, so weigh my bias appropriately.

No - I'm right there with you on the FCB - I'm currently playing a Half elf Wizard exploiter and the extra spell in my spellbook each level is incredible (Coin has been tight, so no purchasing of spells, and not many spellbooks in loot drops)

the HP and Skill point that most of my co-players take stinks of lack of creativity to me.

The Exchange

TxSam88 wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:
Azothath wrote:
I think FCOs are a hard choice costing 1 HP, especially for a class getting 1d6HP/Lvl and a Con 12 at best. I'd never base a PC design choice on FCOs.

I am constantly surprised at how very different my design philosophy is from those I meet online. I value skill points far more than hit points when it comes to favored class bonuses, and unique favored class bonuses above skill points. A simple feat makes up for the entire twenty levels of taking the hit point option, or boosting your constitution score. Same could be said about boosting your intelligence. Getting effectively three new feats (+1/6 extra X option) is far and away in a different playing field.

That being said, I tend to favor the half-elf far more than any other, so weigh my bias appropriately.

No - I'm right there with you on the FCB - I'm currently playing a Half elf Wizard exploiter and the extra spell in my spellbook each level is incredible (Coin has been tight, so no purchasing of spells, and not many spellbooks in loot drops)

the HP and Skill point that most of my co-players take stinks of lack of creativity to me.

So what I'm seeing is that there are multiple valid playstyles?! Who would have thought such a thing is possible!

I personally prefer alternate FCBs. Because I tend to favor playing races whose alternates let you do "weird" (unusual) things that the class couldn't normally do. Wayang oracles with wizard illusion spells or dwarf wizards that craft at a phenomenal rate, as examples.


The few clearly overpowered FCBs > add a spell FCBs > extra HP > extra skill points > the other 90% of FCBs, for me at least.

As above, you can translate a lot of things into Feat units for one perspective. 1 HP every level is a feat. 3 bonus Reservoir points is a feat as well, so 1 reservoir point per level is amazing and 1/6 per level is bad (is only a fraction of a feat before level 18). Offhand i’d probably split elf FCBs between reservoir and a few HP.

The Exchange

Lelomenia wrote:
As above, you can translate a lot of things into Feat units for one perspective. 1 HP every level is a feat. 3 bonus Reservoir points is a feat as well, so 1 reservoir point per level is amazing and 1/6 per level is bad (is only a fraction of a feat before level 18).

One of the things it took me a long time to get comfortable about with PF1 (but I now appreciate) is that it's really hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons. The variations in options allow many different playstyles.

The elf FCB raises max reservoir pool but not starting daily pool. The gnome FCB raises daily pool but not max. Which in turn means that if you have a high charisma the elf FCB is good. If it's low, the gnome is better. (Because you need a higher charisma to consume enough spells/items to fill a higher max reservoir.)

Spoiler:
But of course gnomes have a racial bonus to charsima, which makes them better suited for a higher max pool. So you get lots of different playstyles.

I personally don't love the 1/6th of anything options because they don't do much in actual campaign play. You don't get anything at all until level 6 and don't get your second good thing until level 12 (and a lot of campaigns end there or before).


Belafon wrote:
So what I'm seeing is that there are multiple valid playstyles?! Who would have thought such a thing is possible!

Haha, yeah. But I wasn't specifically talking about play styles. Design philosophy. I draw a distinction between HOW you use the abilities you have available to you (in play, hence 'play style') versus the toolbox you use to create the character you intend to play.

Anyone can select HP or skill points for their favored class bonus, and they are not wrong for doing so. I just like the little window I get into that person's thinking, and what kind of games they play in that shape their choices with what is available to them.

As an aside, one of the reasons I enjoy half-elves is that they tend to have access not only to a large number of alternate racial traits, but they have access to their own favored class bonuses, as well as the human and elf versions. And this makes them almost uniquely suited for builds where someone is dipping between spellcasters.


Sorry for the late reply, I was on an 'unplugged' vacation.

1) I chose elf for the +2 to spell penetration checks and the FCB of +1/level arcane reservoir. To me both of those are kinda hard to beat. But I will rebuild as a half elf and a human to see what it gets me.

2) I chose the Blood Arcanist for lack of Opposition Schools that a School Savant would have had. I hate having opposition schools unless maybe we have multiple primary casters that are be able/willing to take those tasks.

3) I chose Dreamspun bloodline for Combat Precognition and Eye of Somnus.

4) I chose both the School Understanding exploit and a level of Foresight wizard for the familiar (another +4 to init), Forewarned (+1/2 level to init), and Foretell buff/debuff (+2 luck bonus to most rolls or enemies have a -2 to same rolls no save).

DeathlessOne wrote:

...

On a side note: Its perfectly fine to lose a level or two of spellcasting potential when you play at tables that don't involve an arm's race with the game master, and don't require tight character optimization.

5) That was where I was coming from. I expect the difficulty to be around the AP level where you don't require a supper optimized kill squad. It's only a single level lower than a standard arcanist and I haven't heard people complaining about the arcanist in actual use.

Azothath wrote:

lol... just post your build and people will comment (generally negatively)...

= = =

> Zip Zap
> CG med hmnd elf (m) arcanist-Blood Arcnst 7, wizard-diviner(foresight) 1
this is a poor multiclass as the classes do not differ much.
Familiars are not a good choice for play above 8th level.

> Ability Scores: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 22, Wis 8, Cha 12
Assuming start at [8,16,12,18,8,12]=27 points (20 is standard). +2 Int race. +2 Int levels. Two 8's is a No.

your feat choices are not very efficient/good.

see
"Mäktiga Trollfor" by Azothath, 2026 party of (6) Lvl 5 arcane casters with details
some builds by Azothath, 2025
I've run Magnus Mactator (and several similar builds), Rouillé Hasarderth (and several similar builds), and Ludotys Libersacer with great success. I'm sad that you didn't look at my builds or some of the advice posts on wizards before you did yours... ahh well.

6) - Familiar was just for the +4 to initiative. Not for use in combat.

- GM set 25 point buy not me. I don't mind those two 8's. Not sure why it is a No.
- What would you chose different in the feats? Three of the 4 are extremely common for caster builds.
- I did look at build advice and sample builds (though I didn't find yours). I didn't find any that were like my goal of trying to maximize init.

7) I admit +19 to init is overkill. More desire to see how high I can get it rather than a hard need. Depending upon what others bring to the party, I might drop the feat Improved Init for Greater Spell Penetration. But this character is serious about going 1st in nearly every fight.

8) I will switch out the Desperate Resolve trait for Magical Knack, increasing my caster level by 1. I totally forgot about that as a possibility.


I still recommend that Chronomancer archetype. Not only can you boost your own initiative by +1d4, but one of your allies as well.


DeathlessOne wrote:
I still recommend that Chronomancer archetype. Not only can you boost your own initiative by +1d4, but one of your allies as well.

It replaces arcane bond. So I would lose the familiar. I'd be replacing a +4 with +1d4.

Hmm... I could take familiar for my next arcane exploit instead of as my wizard arcane bond. I will consider that some more.


looking at one of my recommendations -
Rouillé Hasarderth@5”PFS” male aasimar Clr-VPlgrm(Feronia) 1 Wiz-Divnr 4 extending him to 8th level and adjusting the feats.
NN med sz aasimar-emberkin humnoid humn/ntv outsidr (m) age:24 ht:5’10” wt:170lb.
Init: +7 or +11{Hgtn Aware} (act in Supr rnd), Sense: drkvis 60ft; Prcptn: +5

AC: 21(13), tch 17(13), fftd 18(10) (+4[frc] armr, +4(+0) shld, +3 Dex) {mag armr, shield}
HP: 42 (8d6) {PFS=6 +7*(4) +8*(+1{FCB})}. Con 12 for dying.
Saves: Fort +7, Rflx +8 , Will +13.
DEF: ER [acd, cld, elec]/5
Mov Spd:30

Mle: +1 mwk ElyBrnz bastard sword 2hnd +7 (1d10+4 S, c19+ ×2) vs Mon Hmnd & Mag Bst +0(+1) then +1(+1).
Mle: +1 mwk ElyBrnz bastard sword 1hnd +7 (1d10+3 S, c19+ ×2) vs Mon Hmnd & Mag Bst +0(+1) then +1(+1).
Rng: +1 Hvy crssbow w Grav Bow +9≤30ft else +8 (2d8+2≤30ft else +1 P, c19+ ×2)

SLA: Danc lgt:K0⋄CL9 3/d. Pyrotech:T2⋄CL8 1/d.
Arcane Spells Prpd (CL 7; Conc(Int) +14, K:CL8 DC+1 Conc:+1) reroll Conc Chk to cast Def 3/d. School(ᔥ).
 FRTH:(2+1ᔥ/d), THRD:(4+1ᔥ/d), SCND(4+1ᔥ/d), FRST(6+1ᔥ/d), ZERO(4@will).
 SchPwr: Forewrnd(Su):act in Supr rnd, +3 Init; DivnFort(Sp):std actn tch +2 insgt atk, skl, abil, sv 1r [8]/d.
Divine Spells Prpd (CL 3; Conc(Wis) +4, K:CL4 DC+1). Domain(ᴰ).
 FRST:(2+1ᴰ/d), ZERO(3@will).
 DomPwr: CarvnBond(Su): up to 2 prep'd tgt within 30ft may gain Dom pwr. Librtn(Su): Freedm Mov 3 rnd/d. CloudSmk(Su) std actn 5ft rad within 30ft crtrs in cloud gain 20% concl vs crtrs more than 5ft away, take -2 atk, -2 Prcptn and for 1 rnd after exiting cloud, uses 4/d. Spon cast any "cure" for non-dom Spl.
Activate wizard and cleric spell list items.

Abil: [14, 16(14), 10, 21(19), 12, 12] = 20pt[13,14,10,16,12,10] + racial[0,0,0,+2,0,+2], 4th:+1 Str, headband Int +2. mods [+2,+2,0,+5,+1,+1]. 8th:+1 Int. 25 pts will improve the array to something like 25pt[14,14,10,17,12,10] and then INT gains +2 from levels for [14, 16(14), 10, 22(20), 12, 12]. This array supports him as a bastard sword wielding wizard. For a regular human Wiz-Divnr I'd go 25pt[10,16,10,19(=17+2),12,10]. Levels would add to Int and you'll pick up a feat along with some skl pts.

Traits:
T1: Mag Knack(Mag) Clr.
T2: Wayang Splhntr(Fireball) -1 metamag cost {Lang: tian as your region is Minata, Tian Xia}. {Option: Deft Dodger(Cmbt) +1 Rflx.}

Feats:
1stLvl: Weapon Prfc Extc (Bastard Sword) BONUS from Cleric.
1stLvlF: Cypher Script: scribe at half cost and half pages used.
2ndLvl: Wiz1 BondObj(amulet) Divn(!E,!N).
Wiz1: Spell Focus(K) {per PFS otherwise Scribe Scroll}.
3rdLvlF: Point-blank Shot. {options: Wpn Fnss. Two-Weapon Fighting. Wpn Focus(Bstrd Swrd)}.
4thLvlAbil: Str +1.
5thLvlF: Precise Shot.
6thLvl: -
Wiz5: MetaMag Reach Spl (+1 to +3)
7thLvl: Var Tattoo(K) +1CL.
8thLvl: +1 Int.

Add: Belt +2 Dex $4000, Cloak Rst +1 to +2 +$3000, Ioun Ston Dusty rose +1 INIT $500, +1 wpn +$2000, +1 crssbow +$2000, Spellguard bracers $5000. Aegis of Recov to mag item +$750. BO Amu Spl Cunn prep +3 SplLvls {added to THRD} $5000.


essentially a Wizard specialist is a better caster than an Arcanist or Sorcerer. So much so you can dip a level and still be better.


Azothath wrote:

looking at one of my recommendations -

Rouillé Hasarderth@5”PFS” male aasimar Clr-VPlgrm(Feronia) 1 Wiz-Divnr 4 extending him to 8th level and adjusting the feats. ...

If you feel he's too powerful (lol), human as a race will lower him a bit (aasimar is an excellent race).

Another tact is to go DEX based with Weapon Finesse and an elven curveblade or TWF with 2 gladius. Not really optimal but fun. Remember if your wizard PC is not casting he is dodaddling about.

Lastly if you are good with CMB rules and want to be a bit more martial and anti-caster, go with my Mage-killer Build Magnus Mactator LN Med humanoid human Lvl Monk-Flowing Monk 2, Wizard-Diviner 7 . The build delays you coming into power until 9th or so but you don't lack for (monk) weapons. It's also hilarious when a foe charges you with his trip weapon and with Long Arm you reposition him 10ft out so his attack fails. Sadly the BAB difference does get wizards past 10th level but the mage-killer is still golden vs low BAB classes.


Okay, I have this crazy idea, first is to take the Samsaran race

Samsaran Racial Traits
+2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, –2 Constitution: Samsarans are insightful and strong-minded, but with frail bodies.
Samsaran: Samsarans are humanoids with the samsaran subtype.
Medium: Samsarans are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Samsarans have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Samsarans can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Lifebound: Samsarans gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws to resist death effects, saving throws against negative energy effects, Fortitude saves to remove negative levels, and Constitution checks to stabilize if reduced to negative hit points.
Samsaran Magic: Samsarans with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day— comprehend languages, deathwatch, and stabilize. The caster level for these effects equals the samsaran’s character level.
Shards of the Past: A samsaran’s past lives grant her bonuses on two skills. The samsaran chooses two skills—she gains a +2 racial bonus on both, and they are always class skills for her. Once made, this choice can’t be altered.

I'm replacing "Shard of the Past" with this:

Replaces Shards of the Past
PFS Legal Mystic Past Life (Su)
Source Advanced Race Guide pg. 198
You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class’s key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you’re adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.

Now I can add to my spell list from any arcane list; this includes the witch who has healing spells and death watch.

I use the exploits for school understanding (foresight) and bloodline development (nanites)By levels it would be arcanist brown fur transmuter lvl 7/ crossbloodline sorcerer nanites/martyred lvl 1

The feat would be:
Lvl 1: extra exploit (bloodline development)
Lvl 3: extra exploit (potent magic)
Lvl 5: exotic heritage (nature)
Lvl 7: toughness
Lvl 7 (sorcerer's bonus feat): eldritch heritage (Sylvan)

Exploit:
Lvl 1: bloodline development, school understanding
Lvl 3: potent magic, powerful change
Lvl 5: familiar
Lvl 7: quick study

Bloodline arcana:
Nanites: Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell from the transmutation school and target only yourself, increase the spell’s duration by 50%. This does not stack with metamagic feats or abilities such as Extend Spell.

Martyred: Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you take damage in battle, your effective caster level increases by 1 during your next turn. This effect does not apply more than once per round.

Bloodline power:
Lvl 1 Nanite Strike
Lvl 3 Nanite Surge
Lvl 9 (my suggestion): Nanite Resurgence
Lvl 15(my suggestion again): Sacrificial Exchange

Stats (already applied the Samsaran traits)
Str 12 dex 14 Con 12 int 18 wis 10 cha 14
Lvl 4 and 8: into int to get a total of 20
Familiar: hare

Ok in the end you can get a initiative of +10 at lvl 8, if you use the nanites surge you can add+11 to the next initiative roll ( 1 per day/2 at lvl 9)
Apart from the familiar you also will have a animal companion from the eldritch heritage Sylvan (your lvl -3)
All your transmuter spell on you are extend 50% and if you use powerful change spell like Fox cunning or Bear endurance are increase to +6 instead of+4. Your bloodline martyred will increase your caster level by +1 when you take damage combined with potent magic would already be a +3 to the caster level. And with Samsaran's alternate ability, we would have 5 witch spells in our spell list

When you reach level 9 of arcanist brown fur transmuter, we win the share transmutation So we can use it on our familiar and the animal companion.


Zepheri wrote:

Okay, I have this crazy idea, first is to take the Samsaran race ...

... PFS Legal Mystic Past Life (Su) ...
arcanist brown fur transmuter lvl 7/ crossbloodline sorcerer nanites/martyred lvl 1 ...

looks okay. I don't recommend Arcanist/Sor multiclass as class levels do not accumulate (powers don't stack).

[non-PFS]Nanite bloodline. IMO Crossblooded doesn't work well but you are trying for 3 bloodlines and it used many of your feats.

It's good people are trying out some things I do. For spontaneous casters adding to their spell list (Mystic Past Lives) does not work out as well as it does for prepared casters. Spontaneous casters have to choose a few spells from their spell list as spells known to cast, so it just increases what they can choose from and they cannot switch it about on a daily basis. It is helpful if their spell list is poor, but that's not true of the Sor/Wiz spell list. Arcanists are okay. Wiz & Arcn have to learn and scribe the spell to use it.

With low BAB and low HPs the Arcanist-BrwnFurTrans has a tough life ahead. Yes, Toughness adds 8HPs. Funny that people were willing to trade those away earlier.

As an arcane caster compare the spells prepared for your build and Rouillé above.

A common blaster build I do is Sprängason human Wiz-K-Admix 5 and that's also good for comparison.


Azothath wrote:
Zepheri wrote:

Okay, I have this crazy idea, first is to take the Samsaran race ...

... PFS Legal Mystic Past Life (Su) ...
arcanist brown fur transmuter lvl 7/ crossbloodline sorcerer nanites/martyred lvl 1 ...

looks okay. I don't recommend Arcanist/Sor multiclass as class levels do not accumulate (powers don't stack).

[non-PFS]Nanite bloodline. IMO Crossblooded doesn't work well but you are trying for 3 bloodlines and it used many of your feats.

It's good people are trying out some things I do. For spontaneous casters adding to their spell list (Mystic Past Lives) does not work out as well as it does for prepared casters. Spontaneous casters have to choose a few spells from their spell list as spells known to cast, so it just increases what they can choose from and they cannot switch it about on a daily basis. It is helpful if their spell list is poor, but that's not true of the Sor/Wiz spell list. Arcanists are okay. Wiz & Arcn have to learn and scribe the spell to use it.

With low BAB and low HPs the Arcanist-BrwnFurTrans has a tough life ahead. Yes, Toughness adds 8HPs. Funny that people were willing to trade those away earlier.

As an arcane caster compare the spells prepared for your build and Rouillé above.

A common blaster build I do is Sprängason human Wiz-K-Admix 5 and that's also good for comparison.

Bloodline Development

Source Advanced Class Guide pg. 10
Strength Normal
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline’s 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher. If this ability is used to gain an arcane bond and a bonded item is selected, the arcanist can only use that item to cast spells of a level equal to the level of spell that could be cast by her equivalent sorcerer level (limiting her to 1st level spells unless she spends a point from her arcane reservoir).

If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.

The sorcerer's spell don't matter to much, I always learn just true strike as lvl 1 spell and that all.


Bloodline Development
... for an arcanist pool point for CHA bonus rounds... so it's not stacking regularly.

so many times at first the text put stars in my eyes until careful reading of the details reined it in...


Azothath wrote:

Bloodline Development

... for an arcanist pool point for CHA bonus rounds... so it's not stacking regularly.

so many times at first the text put stars in my eyes until careful reading of the details reined it in...

Ok I get it but it's not a big deal, tell me what you prefer a exploit (school understanding) that if you get the lvl in wizard and gain 3 ability or exploit ( bloodline development) a crossbloodline that give you 7 ability and 3 bonus feat?

Ok the stat of int don't stack because the first sorcerer's ability is based in charisma but the rest of the ability are better:

1) Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell from the transmutation school and target only yourself, increase the spell’s duration by 50%. This does not stack with metamagic feats or abilities such as Extend Spell.

2) Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you take damage in battle, your effective caster level increases by 1 during your next turn. This effect does not apply more than once per round

3) Nanite Strike (Ex): At 1st level as a free action, you can cause nanites to flow from your body and coat the striking end of any manufactured melee weapon you wield. When you hit with a melee attack using this weapon, some of the nanites infect the blood of the victim (Poison—injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Con modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1 Str damage; cure 1 save). At 5th level, weapons you use with this ability are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming DR, and the poison also deals 1 point of Constitution damage. At 7th level, the damage increases to 1d2 points of Constitution damage and 1d2 points of Strength damage. At 11th level, the cure becomes two successful saves. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier; these rounds need not be consecutive.

4) Nanite Surge (Ex): At 3rd level, once per day as an immediate action, you can cause your nanites to surge, granting you a bonus equal to 3 + your sorcerer level on any one d20 roll; this ability must be activated before the roll is made. If you already possess the nanite surge ability from another source (such as from being an android), you can use your nanite surge an additional time per day. At 9th level, you can use this ability an additional time per day. (Panic Button ability )

5) Nanite Resurgence (Ex): At 9th level, once per day as an immediate action upon being reduced to one-quarter your maximum hit points, you can force the mechanical swarm living inside you to keep you alive. This ability functions like a resurgent transformation spell (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 239) using your sorcerer level as the caster level, except it is an extraordinary ability and cannot be dispelled. At 17th level, you can use this ability twice per day (though using this ability twice in one 24-hour period entails a chance of system shock and death; see the spell’s description for more details). At 20th level, you never die of system shock from using this ability. (Deadly panic button ability)
(Resurgent transformation grants you the ability to recover from deadly wounds with restored vitality and a will to fight, but at a price. Once cast, resurgent transformation lies dormant for up to 1 hour per level until you are reduced to one-quarter hit points or less. Once triggered, you immediately gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Constitution and Strength, damage reduction 5/—, and the benefits of a haste spell. In addition, you heal 4d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +25). Resurgent transformation can even save you from death by healing the damage from an otherwise mortal wound, though it does not prevent death from massive damage or from causes other than hit point loss. Your mental faculties are impaired by this magical transformation, however, causing 1d4 points of Intelligence and Wisdom damage.

The advantages from your transformation persist for 1 round per caster level after the spell is triggered. Once the spell ends, it takes a heavy toll, leaving you exhausted and inflicting 1d4 points of Constitution damage. Utilizing more than one resurgent transformation in a day is particularly risky. The expiration of a second resurgent transformation in a 24-hour period inflicts an additional 1d4 points of Constitution damage and results in death from system shock unless you succeed at a DC 15 Fortitude save, made after the Constitution damage has been applied.

If the spell expires or is dispelled before the transformation has been triggered, no adverse effects result.)
(Better have some restoration wand in hand and a good use magic device or take the heal spell from the witch and activate this ability when able to cast it)

6) Sacrificial Exchange (Su): At 15th level, as a swift action once per day, you can take 2 points of temporary ability damage to one of your ability scores and add a temporary +2 inherent bonus to any other ability score. This bonus lasts for a maximum of 1 hour per sorcerer level or until you choose to prematurely dismiss it (a free action), during which time the temporary ability damage cannot be healed by any means. After this effect ends, you can heal the ability damage normally. At 20th level, you can use this ability twice per day

7) Living Swarm (Su): At 20th level, you and the machines within you become one. Your nanites consume and replicate your body, allowing swift and radical physical alterations with little more than a thought. You become immune to bleed effects, diseases, and poisons, and gain DR 5/—. At will, you can break down your body and move in a shimmering stream of flying nanites, as if affected by gaseous form.


compare
Arcn 7 (Int 22-23) spells THRD:(2 at 4/d), SCND(3 at 5/d), FRST(5 at 6/d), ZERO(7@will).
Rouillé (25 abil pts = Int 22) spells FRTH:(2+1ᔥ/d), THRD:(4+1ᔥ/d), SCND(5+1ᔥ/d), FRST(6+1ᔥ/d), ZERO(4@will). and not the "best" caster
so Rouillé can prepare 3 of the following FRTH Spls that the Arcn cannot;
• Dragon's Breath:K4⋄9 30ft cone or 60ft line (9d6) one of [acid, cold elec, fire] dmg with Rflx 21 for dmg/2.
• Force Punch:K3+1⋄9 Rch Metamag(Cls Rng) rng'd tch to 45ft +7≤30ft (9d4)[frc] plus Fort else pushed back 20ft.
• Resilient Sphere:K4⋄9 trgt Rflx 21 else trapped in W Force dur 9 min.
• Grt Invis:I4⋄8 attack and stay invisible dur 8 min.
• Horrific Doubles:I4⋄8 as Mir Img but viewers get Will 20 else shaken and when image destryed frightened 1 rnd and take 1d3 Wis dmg dur 8 min.
• Lsr Globe Invuln:A4⋄8 supress new spels/efcts ≤3rd in 10ft rad AoE 8 rnd. this totally shuts out the Arcn 7 castings
and prepare 3 more THRD than the arcn 7.

On Melee
Arcn-BrwnFurTrns7 Abil 25pt [12+2, 14, 14-2, 16+2+2+2, 8+2, 14] from base +Samsaran+lvls+belt Str+headband Int. BAB +3 AC 20 with Mage Armor, Shield, Abltv Barrier, B Con (for +4 Con & 16HPs), then Beast Shape 1 to Leopard med anml +4 Str +2 ntrl so AC 22
Mle: +7 (1d6+4 BPS plus grab), 2 claws +7 +7 (1d3+4 BS).

Rouillé AC 21 w Mage Armor, Shield, Abltv Barrier, B Con (for +4 Con & 16HPs), Horrific Images.
Mle: +1 ElyBrnz bastard sword 2hnd +7 (1d10+4 S, c19+ ×2) +7 is okay, not up to fighter standards

(3) +7 (lower dmg) is better than (1) +7 (higher dmg) for a slightly higher DPR.


I've run Wizards, Arcanists, Sorcerers, Magus... I've seen what people do with them as a player and GM along with being on the boards for years.
Choosing a PC depends on Campaign, GM, player group, and what you want to do. It's not just 'the most powerful build'.

Arcanist is fine. I just think if you plan melee as your primary attack you are going to be disappointed. At 8th level most fighters are looking at +14 +9 to hit for (2d6+8)dmg. A Poison Fort 15 isn't a threat unless you get lucky AND your PC has to use a weapon (not leopard form) for +5 (1d6)dmg, Rouillé Fort +7 and he's normally +7 (1d10+4). Arcane casters in melee is never pretty.
So that leaves casting and arcanist tricks like Dimensional Slide.
I did do an Arcn 2 Slayer 7 or Ninja 7 for dimensional slide tricks. GMs were like WTF just happened! I think Wiz-Diviner 1 works out better but no dimensional jumping behind the enemy for flanking.

Magus 2 is the dip sweet spot. They are also crit fishing for high damage. They're not going to work well with Wizard or Sorcerer but Cleric, Paladin, Slayer are options.


Azothath wrote:

I've run Wizards, Arcanists, Sorcerers, Magus... I've seen what people do with them as a player and GM along with being on the boards for years.

Choosing a PC depends on Campaign, GM, player group, and what you want to do. It's not just 'the most powerful build'.

Arcanist is fine. I just think if you plan melee as your primary attack you are going to be disappointed. At 8th level most fighters are looking at +14 +9 to hit for (2d6+8)dmg. A Poison Fort 15 isn't a threat unless you get lucky AND your PC has to use a weapon (not leopard form) for +5 (1d6)dmg, Rouillé Fort +7 and he's normally +7 (1d10+4). Arcane casters in melee is never pretty.
So that leaves casting and arcanist tricks like Dimensional Slide.
I did do an Arcn 2 Slayer 7 or Ninja 7 for dimensional slide tricks. GMs were like WTF just happened! I think Wiz-Diviner 1 works out better but no dimensional jumping behind the enemy for flanking.

Magus 2 is the dip sweet spot. They are also crit fishing for high damage. They're not going to work well with Wizard or Sorcerer but Cleric, Paladin, Slayer are options.

I select the poison because the one that the martyred offer is so lame

Sacrificial Boon (Su): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can sacrifice 1 hit point in exchange for a +1 sacred bonus on the next damage roll, saving throw, or skill check you make. This bonus only applies as long as you use it by or during your next turn—otherwise both your sacrificed hit point and the bonus are wasted. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

As you can see the ability is so poor and don't increase by time


Azothath wrote:
essentially a Wizard specialist is a better caster than an Arcanist or Sorcerer. So much so you can dip a level and still be better.

what advantage as a caster does a specialist wizard with a dip have over a school savant arcanist?


Lelomenia wrote:
Azothath wrote:
essentially a Wizard specialist is a better caster than an Arcanist or Sorcerer. So much so you can dip a level and still be better.
what advantage as a caster does a specialist wizard with a dip have over a school savant arcanist?

this is all posted in Arcanist chats in the forums years ago so my recollection and analysis...

Arcanist has lower spell levels. Arcanist-School savant no arcane bonded object (which is a free any spell you know 1/d), like wizard prepare one school spell (and I assume cast as the text could be more explicit) per spell level, cannot leave slots open, loses Arcn Exploits @1,3,7 so it is an arcane exploit vs wiz discovery/feat@5. Arcanists do not get Scribe Scroll. Arcanists do gain Cls Skl UMD and have their arcane pool to boost DC couple times per day or use an Exploit. That feat difference means Wiz can take School Focus and Varisian Tattoo earlier. Some Exploits are great and better than a feat... so it depends.
As you go up in levels the bonded object becomes significant where a bonded object [neck] can be an amulet of spell mastery at $11000 (value $22000) adding 6 spl lvls to prepare.
Arcanists must use runestones at double the cost of pearls of power.

> Wizard with a dip lose the spell level advantage as arcanists level up at even levels. They still have the other wizard gains. With Clr 1 they gain the divine spell list and a few divine spells and domain abilities and a weapon which makes them better. Spellcraft is mechanically better than UMD, anything castable on those spell lists can be automatically activated or Splcrft to use (saving ranks in UMD). Monk 1 gains them saves and weapons along with IUS(always armed is nice) and maybe some AC. Rog 1, Invest 1, Bard-Arch 1, or Slayer 1, etc...

>> As I said before, I'd play an arcanist as this is a game for fun and they can do some funky stuff that wizards can't.

Overall the starting feat list for arcane casters is small, choosing from; cypher script, precise shot, point-blank shot, school focus, varisian tattoo, reach metamagic, persistent metamagic, intensified metamagic, quicken spell, spell specialization, etc.


→Azothath's Builds: Arcanist 5
I posted a centric detailed build.

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