Community & Social Media Specialist
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Slide into September with new Sanctioning Documents for Society play! Give props to your local GMs and volunteers AND get a peak at the upcoming scenario releases in today's Organized Play Monthly Update from Alex!
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Do you have any more details you can share on the last scenarios topic? For example, I heard that the Printables will be getting full scenarios, but know nothing about that specifically.
Thanks!
These are the final Pathfinder Society scenarios currently scheduled to be published by Paizo.
I agree. Alex very much buried the lede on this and I think we all would like to know more about this. Feel like these last few months something has been going on and the OrgPlay folks feel scared to share it with us. I know the comunity has been terrible to staff before but I would much prefer a more honest adult discussion/analysis if we are having to end or diminish OrgPlay as it is, rather than vague corporately safe promises that we are just getting something new or that its being reinvented.
Organized Play Line Developer
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Well, hello!
To quote a masterpiece: Don't panic!
The Pathfinder Society will continue.
We've got a blog scheduled for September 21st that shares a ton of information about Paizo Printables, Pathfinder Society, the future of Organized Play, and much more.
I know you've got questions. We've got answers and plans, and we're excited to share them with you soon.
Until then,
Take care of each other out there, 'Finders!
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I have to agree the rollout of information for this has not been great. We were supposed to get details on Infinite scenarios back before Gen Con but that didn't come to fruition. Then there was a leak on Lorespire during Gen Con that all seems to be coming true. Then this blog post just kinda blurts it out without providing any additional context.
I'm not trying to be harsh and I know the Paizo staff is dealing with numerous issues that should be taken into consideration. I'm just trying to show the perspective as it looks like from the consumer side. I think it's understandable why people are skeptical of all this, especially when continually being told that more details will come soon.
My biggest hope is I'm really hoping Infinite will happen and be a good program to continue PFS/SFS. (I also really hope we can do something like convert PF1e/SF1e scenarios to PF2e/SF2e. I would love to run all those scenarios I remember way back then for people who only play the newer systems)
Venture-Captain, Online—VTT
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We'd all love more information right now, I am 100% confident Paizo would love to give us more information right now... but they just had to lay off a dozen members of their staff, and it was the very people who would normally work on stuff like this.
I think a few weeks of waiting whilst they figure things out, make changes, and get some solid idea of what they're doing and how rules for infinite etc will work rather than them just saying ' go for it!' and doing a poor job is a pretty reasonable time to wait.
It sucks for our players and GMs, it sucks at least as much if not far, far more so for the people working at Paizo who had to see friends lose their jobs, who are no doubt worried about their jobs! Lets show a little of that famed community and some compassion and wait with a bit of patience until the 21st. <3
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Well, hello!
To quote a masterpiece: Don't panic!
The Pathfinder Society will continue.
We've got a blog scheduled for September 21st that shares a ton of information about Paizo Printables, Pathfinder Society, the future of Organized Play, and much more.
I know you've got questions. We've got answers and plans, and we're excited to share them with you soon.
Until then,
Take care of each other out there, 'Finders!
That's good to know and to be expected, but with all due respect, why wasn't that in today's post? You were able to post this message in only a few hours after the blog post. Even if the usual excuse of the blogs being written 6-8 weeks ahead of time is true why not just add "We've got a blog scheduled for September 21st that shares a ton of information about Paizo Printables, Pathfinder Society, the future of Organized Play, and much more." to the blog post before posting it today instead of having to do damage control?
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We'd all love more information right now, I am 100% confident Paizo would love to give us more information right now... but they just had to lay off a dozen members of their staff, and it was the very people who would normally work on stuff like this.
I think a few weeks of waiting whilst they figure things out, make changes, and get some solid idea of what they're doing and how rules for infinite etc will work rather than them just saying ' go for it!' and doing a poor job is a pretty reasonable time to wait.
It sucks for our players and GMs, it sucks at least as much if not far, far more so for the people working at Paizo who had to see friends lose their jobs, who are no doubt worried about their jobs! Lets show a little of that famed community and some compassion and wait with a bit of patience until the 21st. <3
I'm less critizing the result and moreso the communication. A simple "We're still working on it" would suffice rather than radio silence.
Jessica's post is a step in the right direction (assuming we get those details on Sept 21st).
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That's good to know and to be expected, but with all due respect, why wasn't that in today's post? You were able to post this message in only a few hours after the blog post.
Apparently the blog pipeline is far more rigid. Jessica can easily post anything to the forums, but likely has limited to no access to edit the blog.
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Community & Social Media Specialist
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Apparently the blog pipeline is far more rigid. Jessica can easily post anything to the forums, but likely has limited to no access to edit the blog.
This is correct! The whole team does not have access to edit the blog posts, so a lot of times, commenting here is faster to get the information out.
Richard Lowe is right too! Our Organized Play team is a lot smaller than it used to be, and we're doing our best with the changes made, but a lot of things just have to take longer due to the nature of having fewer people. We're sorry about the effects of the changes made, but we are actively doing the best we can!
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Eagan
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I have to agree the rollout of information for this has not been great. We were supposed to get details on Infinite scenarios back before Gen Con but that didn't come to fruition. Then there was a leak on Lorespire during Gen Con that all seems to be coming true. Then this blog post just kinda blurts it out without providing any additional context.
I'm not trying to be harsh and I know the Paizo staff is dealing with numerous issues that should be taken into consideration. I'm just trying to show the perspective as it looks like from the consumer side. I think it's understandable why people are skeptical of all this, especially when continually being told that more details will come soon.
My biggest hope is I'm really hoping Infinite will happen and be a good program to continue PFS/SFS. (I also really hope we can do something like convert PF1e/SF1e scenarios to PF2e/SF2e. I would love to run all those scenarios I remember way back then for people who only play the newer systems)
I currently have two Infinite scenarios in the works, just waiting for the OK to Go (here it goes, here it goes, here it goes again...) One might be a little longer because it's VERY high level and heavily story-driven.
Kate Tremaine is going to have more work coming out soon so Watch This Space. ;)
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Sorry.. well not sorry.
Communications is everything. We all understand the challenges facing Paizo and Organized Play.
But this type of communications, with a post that feels like an afterthought and a bad attempt to put a spin on this bad news after the blog, is frankly disrespectful of us, the players.
Add this to the outrageous ticket prices at GenCon has me not a happy player, one who is thinking that maybe I have better things to do with my time and money.
I have enjoyed Pathfinder and Starfinder. I have been a VC. I have supported Paizo for over 10 years. I feel that I desire better from this company.
I will see what the post on Sept. 21 has to say. I will keep my fingers crossed until then.
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What do you mean by this? And were are Nebulas discussed? Lorespire?Do Nebulas work the same as Glyphs?Not at the present time. They do not allow holders to pass out extra hero points.
Nebulas were announced in the summer organized play update, and were discussed earlier when the community was surveyed as to what to name them. They are Starfinder Society 2nd edition's GM ranks, but do not at this time show up on the forum or provide a benefit while playing.
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Apparently the blog pipeline is far more rigid. Jessica can easily post anything to the forums, but likely has limited to no access to edit the blog.This is correct! The whole team does not have access to edit the blog posts, so a lot of times, commenting here is faster to get the information out.
Maybe they should if people are having to wear more hats now.
So there is this thing in at least the military (where I ran into it) where if you ended a communication in a way that leaves the listeners in a panic it was a bad message. I would have thought this would be something understood in the corporate world too, but I guess not.
In the future, and I don't mean the blog post 3 or 4 blog posts from now, literally the next one. You have to proof read. You have to have someone who asks the question, "what does this information serve, and would it be better to just be radio silent?" Your customers, us, don't need teasers of information, we need information. All you are doing is creating uncertainty and doubt. If you think this is like an exciting teaser for a game you are wrong. It isn't exciting, it is confidence shaking.
The pipeline that keeps getting fallen back on like it is a saving grace isn't. Its corporate weakness and you are tattling on yourselves. If you can't edit a blog post before or after release your corporate structure is a nightmare of bureaucracy and there needs to be a restructuring on at the very least an operational level.
You can't be too small to proof read and to large to give editing privileges to appropriate team members. Your OP line dev cannot edit a blog post which has relevance to her area? Even post release? Fix that. Put the next blog posts all on google docs if you have to.
Contributor
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Thank you all for your feedback here! Please understand that we are literally doing the best we can given our bandwidth and circumstances, but we'll keep trying!
(and other Paizo Employees reading this):
Deep breath. Exhale. Repeat.
It's okay. We know that Paizo Staff is scrambling post-layoffs, and there is an inevitible adjustment as you all figure out which hats you are wearing when.
That said, Madhippy3 is correct that the solution is to extend blog editing privileges to Jessica Catalan and Alex Speidel so that they can update blogs more swiftly during this challenging period. All the changes that are happening right now are super confusing for all of us, and having information more up to date would take a lot of stress off the community.
Deep breath. Exhale. Repeat.
I think that all of us have been a little stressed during this transition period. For me, Organized Play is more than just a hobby. It's my community, my art (because I freelance a lot) and my sanity valve. So when I say that I had more than one freakout moment over this, I think that everyone can relate.
Change can be stressful, but it also can bring growth and good things.
Jessica has told us that we have adventures for PFS coming, whether via the newly expanded printables line or via the upcoming Infinite Scenarios. I know that I and other members of this community (many of them established organized play freelancers) are writing stuff for Infinite right now.
The stories and community will continue. Let's just hang in there until the next blog - which I am hoping will clarify things for all of us.
Respectfully yours,
Hmm
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It's funny that literally two days later, today's Tech Core preview was swiftly edited to give more complete information about the Starfinder mechanic mines.
Well if you read the blogpost you would know that had to hack into that one. Hacking is easy, anyone trained in computers can do it, but you need privileges to edit.
And we don't like privilege so no one can have it >:((kidding)
Real. I like to think they gave people editing privileges now. It only makes sense.
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An 8 scenario season? I guess the clock didn't work after all...
It's kind of a shame that I decided to invest not insignificant amounts of money into starting to run organised play games back in May, and then Everything happened, and now it seems even the cut-down Scenarios are being replaced with a physical-focused product line.
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An 8 scenario season? I guess the clock didn't work after all...
It's kind of a shame that I decided to invest not insignificant amounts of money into starting to run organised play games back in May, and then Everything happened, and now it seems even the cut-down Scenarios are being replaced with a physical-focused product line.
Two of the prolific freelance writers that Paizo uses for scenarios have posted above that they are writing new scenarios for Starfinder/Pathfinder Infinite. There are likely others that are too that have not posted here. All 8 seasons of PF2e and all SF2e scenarios are now repeatable; there's no shortage of material, and we don't know the details of the printable line or whether the scenarios will be available separately. Our local group has no plans to slow down at all; if anything, we're expanding since we keep getting new players. I got a game in an hour; got to run.
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I just hope that, whatever format things take moving forward, there are still unique chronicle sheets for games - if everything shifts to a generic sanctioning document, I will honestly rapidly lose interest in playing / running any of the 'new' stuff.
(The lack of specific chronicle sheets that served as 'reminders' of past adventures was one of the reasons that I lost interest in WOTC's Adventurers' League.)
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I just hope that, whatever format things take moving forward, there are still unique chronicle sheets for games - if everything shifts to a generic sanctioning document, I will honestly rapidly lose interest in playing / running any of the 'new' stuff.
(The lack of specific chronicle sheets that served as 'reminders' of past adventures was one of the reasons that I lost interest in WOTC's Adventurers' League.)
My understanding was that the generic sanctioning document was a compromise that got adventures sanctioned at the cost of not adding any additional time on Paizo's side for adding boons and adventure summaries and tracking.
Even with the current generic sanctioning documents, there's room if the GM or a player wanted to summarise the adventure. For me, the big question is what will people writing scenarios on Pathfinder/Stafinder Inifnate be able to include on a chronicle?
1: Adventure summaries?
2: Loot, boons, or other rewards?
3: Things that need to be tracked, the Check A, B, C, D part?
1: I see no problem with having an adventure summary.
2: Might need guidelines for balancing.
3: Requires some way to track them. I think this is the most likely part to get cut from scenarios not directly written by Paizo.
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I'm ready for chronicles to fade into history. We can do it without them.
For me, it depends on the chronicle. A chronicle with some normal items that you can get a little bit sooner than normal, I wouldn't mind losing. SF2e has had some really cool new items. If Infinite writers can use Chronicle to introduce new items, then I think it would be worth keeping chronicles around.
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My understanding was that the generic sanctioning document was a compromise that got adventures sanctioned at the cost of not adding any additional time on Paizo's side for adding boons and adventure summaries and tracking.
Don't get me wrong - I am grateful that the generic sanctioning document exists, since it will (likely) encourage (organised play-focused) people to play those games. I just do not have any personal motivation to do so.
I agree, I like the 'special' items on the SF2 chronicles - I wouldn't consider purchasing most of them, since I personally view consumables as a way of permanently reducing PC wealth - but from a flavour perspective, I find then thematic and entertaining.
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Two of the prolific freelance writers that Paizo uses for scenarios have posted above that they are writing new scenarios for Starfinder/Pathfinder Infinite. There are likely others that are too that have not posted here. All 8 seasons of PF2e and all SF2e scenarios are now repeatable; there's no shortage of material, and we don't know the details of the printable line or whether the scenarios will be available separately. Our local group has no plans to slow down at all; if anything, we're expanding since we keep getting new players. I got a game in an hour; got to run.An 8 scenario season? I guess the clock didn't work after all...
It's kind of a shame that I decided to invest not insignificant amounts of money into starting to run organised play games back in May, and then Everything happened, and now it seems even the cut-down Scenarios are being replaced with a physical-focused product line.
This, of course, assumes that the Infinite Sanctioning is even still happening. Which Paizo have been deadly silent on despite the original timeline passing.
and also ignoring the issues around the vendor-locking of Infinite licence. Orr Group / roll20 arent exactly the Best company and I dont really have any interest in giving them money
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This, of course, assumes that the Infinite Sanctioning is even still happening. Which Paizo have been deadly silent on despite the original timeline passing.
and also ignoring the issues around the vendor-locking of Infinite licence. Orr Group / roll20 arent exactly the Best company and I dont really have any interest in giving them money
Yeahhh, Infinite and ORC licensing being incompatible made me lose the interest I may have had in purchasing materials on Infinite. It just flies in the face of the concept of open gaming, and it's still shocking to me that Paizo is seemingly okay with just leaving that incompatibility there after how much they were touting the importance of open gaming during the OGL fiasco and the creation of the ORC. It's unfortunate because there's stuff on there that looks really neat like Team+'s releases but I just can't spend money into that ecosystem unless it's actually made compatible with the ideals Paizo themselves have said they uphold around the idea of open gaming.
(to be clear, I'm not asking for setting material to be made open - just rules content, the same as it was when Infinite was allowed to use the OGL.)
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This, of course, assumes that the Infinite Sanctioning is even still happening. Which Paizo have been deadly silent on despite the original timeline passing.
and also ignoring the issues around the vendor-locking of Infinite licence. Orr Group / roll20 arent exactly the Best company and I dont really have any interest in giving them money
Yeahhh, Infinite and ORC licensing being incompatible made me lose the interest I may have had in purchasing materials on Infinite. It just flies in the face of the concept of open gaming, and it's still shocking to me that Paizo is seemingly okay with just leaving that incompatibility there after how much they were touting the importance of open gaming during the OGL fiasco and the creation of the ORC. It's unfortunate because there's stuff on there that looks really neat like Team+'s releases but I just can't spend money into that ecosystem unless it's actually made compatible with the ideals Paizo themselves have said they uphold around the idea of open gaming.
(to be clear, I'm not asking for setting material to be made open - just rules content, the same as it was when Infinite was allowed to use the OGL.)
The way around it is if Paizo lets people write scenarios either with Paizo IP using Infinite (Pathfinder Society) or without IP using the ORC (Pathseeker Society). Although this would be much easier in Starfinder, where it's easy to just make up new star systems and planets.
But if Paizo wants to keep at least some level of control over organized play, going with Infinite makes more sense than letting people use the ORC and publish anywhere they want; that would be a nightmare to keep track of. But until we really know what's going on, it's all speculation.
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The way around it is if Paizo lets people write scenarios either with Paizo IP using Infinite (Pathfinder Society) or without IP using the ORC (Pathseeker Society). Although this would be much easier in Starfinder, where it's easy to just make up new star systems and planets.
But if Paizo wants to keep at least some level of control over organized play, going with Infinite makes more sense than letting people use the ORC and publish anywhere they want; that would be a nightmare to keep track of. But until we really know what's going on, it's all speculation.
Oh, I totally understand keeping setting material, and therefore any third-party Society scenarios, on Infinite. My issue is that the rules content (not setting/plot content) posted on Infinite is not available under the ORC and in fact (as I understand it) the author of said material is expressly disallowed from publishing said rules content (with the setting material removed) under the ORC even on another platform. It's that Infinite is presently set up as a walled garden where creature stats, feats, and so forth are not being allowed to be made available to the wider open gaming community, nor are they allowed to draw upon content created by that wider open gaming community that is by the nature of the open license available for publishers to use via the ORC.
Prior to the ORC, content published on Infinite had its rules content released under the OGL, while setting content was not OGL-licensed. The same was not done to allow the rules content to be released under the ORC.
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The way around it is if Paizo lets people write scenarios either with Paizo IP using Infinite (Pathfinder Society) or without IP using the ORC (Pathseeker Society). Although this would be much easier in Starfinder, where it's easy to just make up new star systems and planets.
But if Paizo wants to keep at least some level of control over organized play, going with Infinite makes more sense than letting people use the ORC and publish anywhere they want; that would be a nightmare to keep track of. But until we really know what's going on, it's all speculation.
Oh, I totally understand keeping setting material, and therefore any third-party Society scenarios, on Infinite. My issue is that the rules content (not setting/plot content) posted on Infinite is not available under the ORC and in fact (as I understand it) the author of said material is expressly disallowed from publishing said rules content (with the setting material removed) under the ORC even on another platform. It's that Infinite is presently set up as a walled garden where creature stats, feats, and so forth are not being allowed to be made available to the wider open gaming community, nor are they allowed to draw upon content created by that wider open gaming community that is by the nature of the open license available for publishers to use via the ORC.
Prior to the ORC, content published on Infinite had its rules content released under the OGL, while setting content was not OGL-licensed. The same was not done to allow the rules content to be released under the ORC.
I get what you're saying now. And I, for the most part, agree. But at least specifically for writing scenarios for organized play, I see Infinite as a substitution or replacement for writing directly for Paizo, in which case the writer (if Google is correct) also does not keep any rights to their work done for Paizo.
I have several projects I'm working on and debating which will go under Infinite and which are better off under ORC. I still have lots of research to do...
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I get what you're saying now. And I, for the most part, agree. But at least specifically for writing scenarios for organized play, I see Infinite as a substitution or replacement for writing directly for Paizo, in which case the writer (if Google is correct) also does not keep any rights to their work done for Paizo.
True, although the rules content of all Paizo-published Society scenarios have still been published under the ORC (or, previously, the OGL). So the same authors writing Society scenarios for Paizo used to have their rules content like stat blocks also get open licensed, and now won't because of these anti-open-gaming restrictions that are placed on Infinite.
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I get what you're saying now. And I, for the most part, agree. But at least specifically for writing scenarios for organized play, I see Infinite as a substitution or replacement for writing directly for Paizo, in which case the writer (if Google is correct) also does not keep any rights to their work done for Paizo.True, although the rules content of all Paizo-published Society scenarios have still been published under the ORC (or, previously, the OGL). So the same authors writing Society scenarios for Paizo used to have their rules content like stat blocks also get open licensed, and now won't because of these anti-open-gaming restrictions that are placed on Infinite.
Again, good point. At least within the Infinite license, an author and others can reuse their content for other Infinite projects, which is important if they are writing an on going multi scenario story.
I'm thinking of all of this from a Starfinder point of view, which doesn't have an obvious secondary market that is bigger than Starfinder, as Pathfinder has with D&D. I'm also thinking of this as a way to keep Organized Play going, more so than a source of income, although any extra $ would be icing on the cake.
Because Organized Play isn't just a random group of scenarios, I wonder if the delay in releasing the announcement has been that there is work being done to adjust or create a new license for it. At minimum, there's got to be some guidelines or rules being written to make 3rd party scenarios.
I just looked up what license the Lore Spire is under.
There is a comment about "The Guide to Organized Play will continue to be revised as we work to bring campaign rules in line with the Remaster."
Not sure if that affects writing scenarios, or maybe writing the rules to make scenarios? But it makes me think there ares is a lot going on in the background to make writing 3rd-party scenarios possible.
