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Never have I seen characters take helping hand spell so this post presents why that should change!
L3 Cleric/Oracle Spell: https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Helping+Hand
Creative Applications for Helping Hand
0. Helping Hand is not blocked by Anti-Divination magic
Unlike Locate Creature and Discern Location, Helping Hand is an Evocation [Force] spell rather than a Divination spell. It creates a physical effect that does not rely on detection or scrying sensors to function. As a result, it bypasses defences like Nondetection and Mind Blank, which specifically protect against Divination spells or effects that discern information about the subject.
1. The "Ambush Trigger" (Early Warning & Strategic Risk)
• The Move: While on watch or resting in hostile territory, cast the spell describing a specific threat (e.g., "The Red Fang Orc Chieftain") or a general category ("Any Orc").
• The Result: If the hand returns after 4 hours with an outstretched palm, the target is either outside the 5-mile radius or lacks a navigable path for the helping hand. If the hand does not return after 4 hours, a target has been located within range.
• The Risk: You are signalling your presence. A high-level target using See Invisibility or Invisibility Purge can identify the hand and follow its return path to ambush you. Because the spell is not Dismissible, you cannot end the effect to hide your position; your only escape is to move more than 5 miles from the original casting spot, and the spell will eventually expire.
2. The "Secret Door" Ooze (Structural Probe)
• The Move: To find hidden exits in a sealed room, use wax or damp cloth to plug all known door and window gaps. Cast the spell describing a creature you know is definitely outside the room.
• The Result: Watch the hand's initial movement. If it simply hovers, the room is confirmed airtight and lacks navigable secret passages. If the hand "streaks off" into a hairline fracture or a tiny crack in the masonry, it has proven a navigable space exists on the other side. You don't need the hand to return; you just need to see where its path began.
3. The "Subjectivity" Trap (Instant Identity Verification)
• The Move: When suspicious of an NPC's identity, cast the spell using a highly detailed physical description of the "true" individual (include specific scars, exact height, or birthmarks).
• The Result: The spell targets based on physical traits, not identity or intent, making it immune to Bluff, Disguise, or Glibness. If the "King" standing before you is a Doppelganger or an impostor, the hand will ignore them and immediately streak off toward the horizon in search of the real subject. The hand’s refusal to beckon to the person in front of you reveals the fraud instantly.
4. The "Courier of Secret Signs" (Stealth Signalling)
• The Move: Use the hand to send a pre-arranged "silent signal" to an ally, double agent, or prisoner in a guarded area.
• The Result: The hand is invisible to everyone except the caster and the subject. The target sees a beckoning ghostly hand—a signal that the rescue party is within 5 miles—while guards remain oblivious.
• The Risk: Vigilant guards may still notice a presence; a DC 20 Perception check allows a creature to notice "something" is invisible within 30 feet. Alerted guards may use Invisibility Purge or Dispel Magic to neutralize the signal. More dangerously, crafty guards might simply "escort" the bound prisoner and follow the hand, leading them straight to their "saviour."
5. The "Regroup" Logic (Status Assessment)
• The Move: When separated from a teammate, cast the spell to guide them back to your position.
• The Result: Teammate Follows: They are led back to you safely via the most direct, feasible route.
o Open Palm Return (4 Hours): The teammate is dead, more than 5 miles away, or in a completely sealed/unreachable location.
o No Return/Disappears: The teammate is within 5 miles but is unwilling or unable to move (e.g., unconscious, paralysed, or imprisoned). Note that this also occurs if the hand was discovered and dispelled at the target's location.
6. Follow the Hand to Target (requires Level 12+ cleric/oracle)
• The Move:
o One party member, either the caster or another, uses Extend Metamagic to cast see invisibility (CL12 Extended = 4 hours duration), or has 40+ Perception* to pinpoint and track the invisible helping hand.
* Given the hand is likely moving at full speed (–10 Perception DC modifier), tracking it may only be only a DC 30 Perception check.
o A spellcaster casts wind walk on themselves and their companions, transforming the party into cloud form. This takes 5 rounds during which the caster of helping hand does not change form.
• Tracking and Following the Hand:
o Five rounds after the wind walk is cast, the same or another non-gaseous spellcaster casts helping hand. The hand moves toward the target at up to 240 feet per round (and probably as slow as 55 ft. per round during its search phase).
o The party keeps pace easily, as they're also moving at high speed (600 feet per round with wind walk).
o If the helping hand caster is also affected by wind walk, they can catch up to the assault party in less than a minute.
o The group follows the hand's search for up to 4 hours, during which time the hand seeks out the target within a 5-mile radius.
• Result:
o The helping hand guides the assault party directly to the target.
o Since the helping hand can squeeze through tight spaces (like cracks or doors), the gaseous party can follow it without obstruction.
o By the time the target notices the hand, the assault party is already on top of them.
o The party moves in overlapping clouds, creating the illusion of a single entity. Upon sighting the target, the group ducks as one behind cover and lands, except for one assault team member who reappears and travels the remainder of their 600 ft. move in another direction. This misleads the target into thinking the suspicious cloud has left.
o While the target is distracted, the rest of the party reforms over 5 rounds from behind cover or from a safe distance, and then launches their attack.
Notes:
about #1:
" It is invisible to anyone except you and a potential subject" so the target can see the hand and doesn't need see invisibility to see and follow the hand to you. allowing the orc chief to know where you are and guide him (and his following tribe) in the fastest way to your camp is not very smart.
#2
cracks or exits small enough for ants and such to travel through might not be a secret door, it might just be small cracks in a non airtight wall of the ruin.
#3
"you specify a person (or any creature) by physical description, which can include race, gender... When the description is done, the hand streaks off in search of a subject that fits the description."
the hand search for someone that fits the physical description that you give it, anything that is made to look just like the target (looking at you doppelganger) will count as a 'potential target' and make the hand beckon it and not the real king. unless you know of a very special mark that only the target would have.
"If more than one subject in a 5-mile radius meets the description, the hand locates the closest creature."
also since this is a visual description. invisibility would still work against it. "If, at the end of 4 hours of searching, the hand has found no subject that matches the description within 5 miles..." (invisible creature by default doesn't match his normal description, he no longer look like a 5 ft human with a scar on his nose)
note:
- about secret signal, a good way to deliver a massage with this (and say, not any other massage delivering spells you might use instead) is to agree before on the target per massage you want to send. sign the healer if you want the party to come and help, peg the rogue if you want them to flee and bring reinforcement, etc.
- Pranks: this can be a very interesting prank to pull on the neighbor's mangy dog that won't stop barking...
Thanks for those points of view. They have allowed the tactics to be updated in a more bullet proof manner. Since I can't edit first post... the full update is below:
Helping Hand
Helping Hand behaves like a magical appearance filter rather than a true identity-based divination—it finds the closest creature that matches the described appearance at the time it searches.
Helping Hand is not blocked by Anti-Divination magic
Unlike Locate Creature and Discern Location, Helping Hand is an Evocation [Force] spell rather than a Divination spell. It creates a physical effect that does not rely on detection or scrying sensors to function. As a result, it bypasses defences like Nondetection and Mind Blank, which specifically protect against Divination spells or effects that discern information about the subject.
The "Foolproof" Template
"I seek a [Race] [Gender] of [Build], with [Hair Colour/Style] and [Distinguishing Physical Mark like a scar or tattoo], currently wearing [Primary Armor/Clothing Type] and carrying a [Specific Weapon or Large Item]."
Example in Practice: "A tall, muscular Half-Orc woman with a braided black ponytail and a jagged scar across the bridge of her nose, wearing iron breastplate and carrying a greataxe."
What does/doesn't fool helping hand
When using Helping Hand, it is useful to think of the effect as functioning more like a magical appearance filter than a true divination. The hand searches for the closest creature that matches the physical description provided when the spell is cast, rather than identifying a specific individual. Because of this, the spell can be fooled by mundane disguises, polymorph effects, and illusion (glamer) disguises such as Disguise Self or Seeming, which alter a creature’s apparent appearance and therefore its match to the description. However, it is not hindered by glamer-based invisibility, such as Invisibility, or by mundane Stealth, since the creature itself still matches the description and the spell’s search mechanism does not rely on ordinary sight; the subject can still see the hand even while invisible. Likewise, the spell cannot be fooled by illusion (figment) effects such as Silent Image or Major Image, because those create illusory phenomena rather than actual creatures. The description may include visible clothing, gear, or equipment—for example, “a wizard in a red cloak”—but this introduces a point of fragility: if the target’s appearance changes after the spell is cast, such as by removing that cloak, they may no longer match the description and the hand will fail to locate them.
Creative Applications for Helping Hand
1. The "Ambush Trigger" (Early Warning & Strategic Risk)
• The Move: While on watch or resting in hostile territory, cast the spell describing a specific threat (e.g., "The Red Fang Orc Chieftain") or a general category ("Any Orc").
• The Result: If the hand returns after 4 hours with an outstretched palm, the target is either outside the 5-mile radius or lacks a navigable path for the helping hand. If the hand does not return after 4 hours, a target has been located within range.
• The Risk: You are signalling your presence. A high-level target using See Invisibility or Invisibility Purge can identify the hand and follow its return path to ambush you. Because the spell is not Dismissible, you cannot end the effect to hide your position; your only escape is to move more than 5 miles from the original casting spot, and the spell will eventually expire. Alternatively, you might choose to remain in position, turning the hand's return into an ambush of your own as you wait for the target to follow the ghostly beacon back to your blade.
2. The "Secret Door" Ooze (Structural Probe)
• The Move: To find hidden exits in a sealed room, use wax or damp cloth to plug all known door and window gaps. Cast the spell describing a creature you know is definitely outside the room.
• The Result: Watch the hand's initial movement. If it simply hovers, the room is confirmed airtight and lacks navigable secret passages. If the hand "streaks off" into a hairline fracture or a tiny crack in the masonry, it has proven a navigable space exists on the other side. You don't need the hand to return; you just need to see where its path began. The hand serves as a foolproof structural probe: if it can 'ooze' through, a character in gaseous form can likely follow, turning a simple search spell into a precision navigation tool for airtight dungeons.
3. The "Appearance Verification" Trick
• The Move: When you suspect an NPC’s identity, cast Helping Hand using a detailed physical description of the individual that also includes a distinctive piece of equipment that is always present, such as a king’s tight gold signet ring or bracelet that cannot realistically be removed. While the spell can be fooled by mundane disguises, polymorph effects, or illusion (glamer) disguises like Disguise Self or Seeming, including a specific item creates an additional filter that an impostor may fail to match. A glamer illusion might duplicate the appearance of the item, but a polymorphed impostor who lacks the real object cannot truly reproduce it.
• The Result: The hand searches for the closest creature that matches the full description, including the specified item. If the person standing before you is a disguised or polymorphed impostor who does not possess that item, they will not match the description. In that case, the hand ignores them and streaks away in search of the nearest creature who does—revealing that the individual present does not fit the complete description and may be a fraud.
4. The "Courier of Secret Signs" (Stealth Signalling)
• The Move: Use the hand to send a pre-arranged "silent signal" to an ally, double agent, or prisoner in a guarded area.
• The Result: The hand is invisible to everyone except the caster and the subject. The target sees a beckoning ghostly hand—a signal that the rescue party is within 5 miles—while guards remain oblivious.
• The Risk: Vigilant guards may still notice a presence; a DC 20 Perception check allows a creature to notice "something" is invisible within 30 feet. Alerted guards may use Invisibility Purge or Dispel Magic to neutralize the signal. More dangerously, crafty guards might simply "escort" the bound prisoner and follow the hand, leading them straight to their "saviour."
5. The "Regroup" Logic (Status Assessment)
• The Move: When separated from a teammate, cast the spell to guide them back to your position.
• The Result: Teammate Follows: They are led back to you safely via the most direct, feasible route.
o Open Palm Return (4 Hours): The teammate is dead, more than 5 miles away, or in a completely sealed/unreachable location.
o No Return/Disappears: The teammate is within 5 miles but is unwilling or unable to move (e.g., unconscious, paralysed, or imprisoned). Note that this also occurs if the hand was discovered and dispelled at the target's location.
6. Follow the Hand to Target (requires Level 12+ cleric/oracle)
• The Move:
o One party member, either the caster or another, uses Extend Metamagic to cast see invisibility (CL12 Extended = 4 hours duration), or has sustainable 40+ Perception* to pinpoint and track the invisible helping hand.
* Given the hand is likely moving at full speed (–10 Perception DC modifier), tracking it may only be a sustainable DC 30 Perception check.
o A spellcaster casts wind walk on themselves and their companions, transforming the party into cloud form. This takes 5 rounds during which the caster of helping hand does not change form.
• Tracking and Following the Hand:
o Five rounds after the wind walk is cast, the same or another non-gaseous spellcaster casts helping hand. The hand moves toward the target at up to 240 feet per round (and probably as slow as 55 ft. per round during its search phase).
o The party keeps pace easily, as they're also moving at high speed (600 feet per round with wind walk).
o If the helping hand caster is also affected by wind walk, they can catch up to the assault party in less than a minute.
o The group follows the hand's search for up to 4 hours, during which time the hand seeks out the target within a 5-mile radius.
• Result:
o The helping hand guides the assault party directly to the target.
o Since the helping hand can squeeze through tight spaces (like cracks or doors), the gaseous party can follow it without obstruction.
o By the time the target notices the hand, the assault party is already on top of them.
o The party moves in overlapping clouds, creating the illusion of a single entity. Upon sighting the target, the group ducks as one behind cover and lands, except for one assault team member who reappears and travels the remainder of their 600 ft. move in another direction. This misleads the target into thinking the suspicious cloud has left.
o While the target is distracted, the rest of the party reforms over 5 rounds from behind cover or from a safe distance, and then launches their attack.
Looks like it can also be used to locate and designate an invisible foe during combat as it remains 10' in front of the subject.
The spell clearly states it targets the first creature that matches the description. Any difference in appearance or any missing details will cause it to ignore a target. The spell also does not state it grants any special senses or that it has any score in any skill. Which means it cannot see invisible creatures.
How do you describe an invisible target, so it can be recognized by something that does not have the ability to see invisible object. About the only way I can think would be to say you cannot see it. Which would mean the spell is immediately triggered when cast because it does not see the target when cast.
Also, any variance from the description means the spell does not consider the intended target the target. If the half orc woman is not carrying the great axe it will ignore her. If she were invisible that would also be a change in appearance so would not match the description. The same thing goes for any disguises or illusions, unless the disguise or illusion was the description given. If the description given was of the disguise or illusion and the target removes the disguise or illusion it also causes the spell to fail, because they no longer match the description.
The spell also does not state it grants any special senses or that it has any score in any skill. Which means it cannot see invisible creatures.
I disagree
it has no eyeballs - how does it see anyone?
it specifically states that it finds someone who matches the description - I assume it does this magically, not with senses, as it is a magical effect. it does not mention that it needs light, so I assume it can find people in a dark room, if so, then surely it can find invisible people as well.
it says it streaks off in search of the subject, but considering it can find someone that's within 100' in 6 seconds means it's either traveling EXTREMELY fast to cover 31,400 sq ft of area, or is traveling DIRECTLY to them. If it's traveling directly to them, that means it can sense them trough walls, floors, doors, etc.
The spell also does not state it grants any special senses or that it has any score in any skill. Which means it cannot see invisible creatures.
I disagree
it has no eyeballs - how does it see anyone?
it specifically states that it finds someone who matches the description - I assume it does this magically, not with senses, as it is a magical effect. it does not mention that it needs light, so I assume it can find people in a dark room, if so, then surely it can find invisible people as well.
it says it streaks off in search of the subject, but considering it can find someone that's within 100' in 6 seconds means it's either traveling EXTREMELY fast to cover 31,400 sq ft of area, or is traveling DIRECTLY to them. If it's traveling directly to them, that means it can sense them trough walls, floors, doors, etc.
You completely ignored my point about the description of an invisible creature. So, again I ask how do you describe an invisible creature? To those that cannot see invisible they have no description.
You completely ignored my point about the description of an invisible creature. So, again I ask how do you describe an invisible creature? To those that cannot see invisible they have no description.
Find me the "closest troll".
But, like I mentioned, the Hand isn't SEEING anything, it has no eyes.
I can say find the closest troll (race is an acceptable description per the spell wording), and invisible or not, it's still a troll, and if it's in the room with me, it's the closest. it's not using vision to find them as it has no eyes, so the fact that it's invisible doesn't matter.
You completely ignored my point about the description of an invisible creature. So, again I ask how do you describe an invisible creature? To those that cannot see invisible they have no description.
I don’t think he ignored it, he just disagrees with how magic works. He is saying magic has a kind of omniscience, it just knows how to find the target.
That is how I run things at my table. I don’t expect my players to actually come up with a description. They might say something like: “I’m targeting Varis the Innkeeper”. That’s good enough for me. As long as I as the GM knows who they mean then the spell works. Trying to figure out what the spell could reasonably detect just raises more problems (arguments at the table) than it solves.
@ Pizza Lord
I dispute your assertion that there is a precedent, but this is somewhat irrelevant to my philosophy on this, so let me sell you the dream as to why my interpretation is awesome.
I liked your elf scenario, that was a great idea. So the situation is that Varis the (human) Innkeeper was killed and reincarnated as an elf and has been missing ever since. The PCs are trying to find him, after following rumours in town they think he is lost in the forest. Party Cleric casts Helping Hand inside the forest saying they want to find “Varis the Innkeeper”.
Scenario #1. My interpretation.
Much to the PCs surprise an elf arrives following the hand. Now the PCs have a mystery to solve, is that really Varis? He claims to be, and the spell seemed to work. That’s interesting.
Scenario #2. Alleged precedent.
Spell fails, Characters waste four hours. Player gets frustrated that the spell is useless, never uses it again. Boring! A wasted opportunity, and for what? So the GM can arbitrarily decide what conditions need to be met?
Skeletons don't have eyes either, but they still see things, and if you order one to attack trolls that enter a room, they can't 'magically' see an invisible one, even if you (rightly) say that they see magically or supernaturally despite having no eyes, optic nerves, or brains.
They have darkvision.
Correct - Skeletons are listed as having senses, Exactly what senses is the spell listed as having?
When the spell is cast, you specify a person (or any creature) by physical description, which can include race, gender, and appearance but not ambiguous factors such as level, alignment, or class. When the description is done, the hand streaks off in search of a subject that fits the description. The amount of time it takes to find the subject depends on how far away he is, as detailed on the following table.
Five miles is 26,400 feet. The Helping Hand can move at speeds up to 240 feet per round when returning with the subject. Assuming it could move at that speed while searching for the subject as well, it could cover a 5-mile straight-line distance in just 110 rounds--or 660 seconds, or 11 minutes (about twice as fast as the world record running time for that distance). But the table in question says it takes 4 hours for the Helping Hand to locate creature fitting the description if it's 5 miles away. From that, we can infer that the Helping Hand is not homing into said creature directly (which is supported by the "in search of a subject that fits the description" descriptive text).
Once the hand locates the subject, ...
Here is where we land "What works for your game?" territory.
The spell says nothing about the Helping Hand having any sort of special sensory abilities. A given GM may decide said the Helping Hand IS able to discern, e.g., invisible creatures. The more you load up on it, however, the more it works as other spells--and Pathfinder is usually good about explicitly stating when that is the case.
At that point, it becomes less a debate about RAW and more a philosophical discussion about whether a given table wants creative reimagining of spells to be rewarded: that is, whether what is essentially intended to be a magical location/invitation service should be allowed to be repurposed as a pre-combat aid or even as a combat tool.
But the table in question says it takes 4 hours for the Helping Hand to locate creature fitting the description if it's 5 miles away. From that, we can infer that the Helping Hand is not homing into said creature directly (which is supported by the "in search of a subject that fits the description" descriptive text).
Agreed - the hand is "searching" - up to 5 miles away from you - so a circle 5 miles in radius. That's over 2.1 Billion square feet, or over 87 million 5' squares. if it were to hit every one of these in the 4 hours it can take to find the target, it would need to cover over 36 thousand 5' squares per round, so about 30,000 feet per second. or Mach 26. even if it had a visual range of 20', that still means it needs to cover over 13,000 20x20 areas. about 6 per round, so still roughly 2600 MPH as it travels the 40' from area to area (assuming my math is right)
This tells me it probably has some sort of magical perceptions that help it home in on the target
And you, as a GM, are well within your rights to not just infer that but to also work with that in your game. Another GM would be well within their rights to read the following...
If, at the end of 4 hours of searching, the hand has found no subject that matches the description within 5 miles, it returns to you, displays an outstretched palm (indicating that no such creature was found), and disappears.
... and arrive at a completely different answer.
They could, for example, argue that, rather than being limited to "a visual range of 20'," the Helping Hand benefits from nothing more than normal range of vision. Meaning, Helping Hand actually just involves unstated, magic-powered, "behind the scenes" applications of the Perception Skill (DC 0 to "Notice a visible creature," with a +1 to that DC for every 10 feet of stance) in conjunction with the Stealth and Detection limits given for each terrain type in the GameMastery Guide, and that the times in Helping Hand's table are nothing more than a rough average for how long it takes to succeed (assuming the GM deems it should succeed, given the context of the subject and the situation at hand).
Personally, I think the spell (and many others, besides) was written with that last parenthesis in mind. To that end, a given GM can fill in the blanks as they wish. Some players (myself included) and GMs might prefer that it (and other spells, besides) had more explicitly qualified variables and limits.
Spell fails, Characters waste four hours. Player gets frustrated that the spell is useless, never uses it again. Boring! A wasted opportunity, and for what? So the GM can arbitrarily decide what conditions need to be met?Scenario #1: Players hear about white dragon. PCs prepare fireball. Fireball does nothing because A) It's really an albino red dragon, or B) Dragons aren't stupid and cast resist fire. Players conclude fireball is useless and never use it again. That has nothing to do with the GM. That has nothing to do with how fireball actually works. The GM can certainly ignore the actual scenario and have the dragon explode in sparkles and ice cream at the touch of a fireball because 'that makes it more fun and exciting' and maybe it does).
In your scenario, it sounds like Varis was perfectly fine, perfectly easy to be found, within 5 miles of the party, and apparently had enough free time and nothing going on to just follow a random disembodied hand up for up to five miles (which is a long way to walk). It really sounds like the party had other options other than the GM having to twist or change how the spell was written, designed, and balanced to work. Maybe they could have... gone to Varis' inn and found him there... or found someone that knew about him dying or at least being reincarnated.
Your scenario also completely negates your premise; that the party has a mystery to solve: Is it really Varis? Well... knowing how you, the GM, changed how the spell works. They know it is... and how else would a person that looks nothing like the way they described Varis see and be lead by the spell back? That isn't how it works, even with the way you changed it.
I'm not changing how Helping Hand works. The spell finds a person or creature based on a description. I'm just being open-minded about how that description can be defined. The player specified two criteria. The name: "Varis" and the profession: "Innkeeper". That is enough to uniquely identify the NPC therefore the spell works. That the NPC was human and is now an elf is irrelevant, the description didn't mention race. But let's say the player did give a more detailed description, something like Varis the Innkeeper, a tall heavy set human male who wears a grey felt hat. I would still rule that the spell works, even if Varis lost his hat, and had a sex change Tomb of Horrors style. Why? Because there was enough correct information in the description to uniquely identify the individual. The additional information wasn't needed and I'm not about to penalise a player for being highly engaged and remembering the extra description in the first place.
Now to the second part, yes the players should quickly conclude that the spell did in fact draw the real Varis to them. But that is not the mystery to solve, what happened to him? If this an illusion? Was he polymorphed? Or reincarnated? Or something else? Does he remember? Is he lying? Or hiding something? Was he charmed or magically compelled? Did you hear that? Did something follow him...
The point is, there is an interaction to be had. This is far better than "nothing happens". To be clear the something doesn't have to be good. Not everything needs to be ice cream and sparkles. Maybe the evil lich that controls him sent him back with a scroll bearing explosive runes, or worse...
Going on to your white dragon example. Even if the spell does not work as intended, it should not be "nothing happens". You don't have to say "nothing happens" very many times for players to disengage. A better answer would be "your fireball explodes temporarily engulfing the dragon in fire and melting the snow around it, the area in the blast radius is now difficult terrain for small-sized or smaller creatures. Unfortunately the dragon is completely unharmed as though magically protected. Everyone can roll versus Knowledge (arcana). The dragon smirks at your feeble magic and focuses its attention on the barbarian."
I have to agree with Pizza Lord that going by name and profession is changing the spell.
The big problem seems to be that Pathfinder does not define physical description in game mechanics. Too me a physical description means what the target currently looks like. Basically, what the police would use in an APB is what it needs. If the people at a bar cannot identify the target based on the information given the spell will not either. People at a bar would not recognize the invisible target, so the spell doe not either.
To answer the OP question the reason it is God tier spell is because the game you are in is not enforcing the restrictions of the spell.
I have to agree with Pizza Lord that going by name and profession is changing the spell.
The big problem seems to be that Pathfinder does not define physical description in game mechanics. Too me a physical description means what the target currently looks like. Basically, what the police would use in an APB is what it needs. If the people at a bar cannot identify the target based on the information given the spell will not either. People at a bar would not recognize the invisible target, so the spell doe not either.
To answer the OP question the reason it is God tier spell is because the game you are in is not enforcing the restrictions of the spell.
while the game doesn't define Physical Description , it does give multiple examples for it, just check some race entry for a player's character.
examples:
- Dwarf:
"Physical Description: Dwarves are a short and stocky race, and stand about a foot shorter than most humans, with wide, compact bodies that account for their burly appearance. Male and female dwarves pride themselves on the long length of their hair, and men often decorate their beards with a variety of clasps and intricate braids. Clean-shavenness on a male dwarf is a sure sign of madness, or worse—no one familiar with their race trusts a beardless dwarven man.
- Elf:
"Physical Description: Generally taller than humans, elves possess a graceful, slender physique that is accentuated by their long, pointed ears. It is a mistake, however, to consider them weak or feeble, as the thin limbs of an elf can contain surprising power. Their eyes are wide and almond-shaped, and filled with large, vibrantly colored pupils. The coloration of elves as a whole varies wildly, and is much more diverse than that of human populations. However, as their coloration often matches their surroundings, the elves of a single community may appear quite similar. Forest-dwelling elves often have variations of green, brown, and tan in their hair, eye, and even skin tones.
While elven clothing often plays off the beauty of the natural world, those elves who live in cities tend to bedeck themselves in the latest fashions. Where city-dwelling elves encounter other urbanites, the elves are often fashion trendsetters. "
- Human:
"Physical Description: The physical characteristics of humans are as varied as the world's climes. From the dark-skinned tribesmen of the southern continents to the pale and barbaric raiders of the northern lands, humans possess a wide variety of skin colors, body types, and facial features. Generally speaking, humans' skin color assumes a darker hue the closer to the equator they live. At the same time, bone structure, hair color and texture, eye color, and a host of facial and bodily phenotypic characteristics vary immensely from one locale to another. Cheekbones may be high or broad, noses aquiline or flat, and lips full or thin; eyes range wildly in hue, some deep set in their sockets, and others with full epicanthic folds. Appearance is hardly random, of course, and familial, tribal, or national commonalities often allow the knowledgeable to identify a human's place of origin on sight, or at least to hazard a good guess. Humans' origins are also indicated through their traditional styles of bodily decoration, not only in the clothing or jewelry worn, but also in elaborate hairstyles, piercing, tattooing, and even scarification. "
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As we can see, the game uses Physical Description for how the creature looks like, not his profession or name so 'Dave the cook' will not be there (it might show up in ether the 'name' or 'society' entries, but those are not used by the spell)
What is the physical appearance of an invisible creature? That is what is not defined in the game. Also does a creature have a different physical appearance to those with enhanced senses. Those are the things the game does not define.
well since the game use 'Physical Description' to explain how the races usually look like, it should stand out that an invisible creature, which by definition can't be describe 'how it look likes' would have a null\negative Physical Description and won't be a valid option to be described.
If the people at a bar cannot identify the target based on the information given the spell will not either. People at a bar would not recognize the invisible target, so the spell doe not either.
Why not? why can't the description be "A 7' tall, blue skinned troll, wearing a white hat and white pants, but is currently invisible?"
Invisible creatures can be detected, just needs a good roll on a perception check, or have one of many means to bypass invisibility. Maybe one of those bar patrons has such?
Or really, isn't "A creature that's invisible" an accurate physical description?
If the people at a bar cannot identify the target based on the information given the spell will not either. People at a bar would not recognize the invisible target, so the spell doe not either.
Why not? why can't the description be "A 7' tall, blue skinned troll, wearing a white hat and white pants, but is currently invisible?"
Invisible creatures can be detected, just needs a good roll on a perception check, or have one of many means to bypass invisibility. Maybe one of those bar patrons has such?
Or really, isn't "A creature that's invisible" an accurate physical description?
maybe, but since the spell doesn't use a target but look for any subject that resemble the description, asking the spell to call a subject which does not have a visible shape should prompt the hand to just beacon the air in front of it, it has the same description after all, it matches the description perfectly.
Detecting an invisible creature does not mean you can see them. Often spotting an invisible target is due to hearing them move. It can also be due to the invisible creature disturbing the environment. Keep in mind that the penalty to spot an invisible creature goes up substantially if it is not moving.
Altering the preferred targets appearance in a way so it no longer matches the description given will also mean that it is ignored. The spell does not distinguish individuals in any way all it does is to find the nearest target that fits the description given. This can be as simple as removing an article of clothing that was used in the description or changing the color of its hair or skin.
If being invisible is used in the description it can cause some problems. First is that any invisible creature will match the description not just the one you are trying to target. Second is that if the creature is not invisible it will also not match the description and will be ignored. Last you must know the target is invisible and include that in the description.
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The GM could be difficult and have the hand go to the nearest person that the caster can’t see. Invisible has meaning other than just the spell, after all.
I, still not convinced that the spell isn't just locating someone that fits the description. it makes no mention of uses senses, it has no eyeballs, it has no ears, it has no brain. the spell description says it "Finds the subject" nothing else. If your description is good enough to sort out a unique individual within the 5 mile area, then IMO it finds them, regardless of them being underground, in a coffin, upside down, invisible, underwater, in a hut, in a dark place, in a light place. etc.
The spell makes no mention of it being able to see in darkness, go inside buildings, travel through walls, go in water etc, yet it can find someone there, I don't see why "invisible" can't be found as well.
When the spell is cast, you specify a person (or any creature) by physical description, which can include race, gender, and appearance but not ambiguous factors such as level, alignment, or class. When the description is done, the hand streaks off in search of a subject that fits the description. The amount of time it takes to find the subject depends on how far away he is, as detailed on the following table.
The description of the spell clearly specifies it selects based on the physical description given as part of the casting.
As I have said before it is not a matter of being able to see invisible, it is the fact invisibility changes your appearance. The spell is clear that you it only cares about physical appearance and does not target based on identity.
If you can give a description detailed enough that no other creature can match the description it can find an individual. But that level of detail can also cause the spell to disregard your preferred creature. For example, if part of the detail is the color of shirt they normally wear and they are wearing a different color shirt then your preferred target no longer matches the description and will be ignored. Any missing or changed detail will do this. If you include the target is invisible it will be able to “find” that target, but only if they are currently invisible.
The spell is also clear that it cannot pass through solid objects but can ooze through small cracks and slits. That is enough to show it can enter buildings and travel through liquid.
If you include the target is invisible it will be able to “find” that target, but only if they are currently invisible.
So if I ask it to find a six foot tall troll, it should be able to find that 6' tall troll whether it's invisible or not.
If I remember correctly, Prince actually got the right to use the name “Prince” again.
As far as the topic goes: I’m pretty sure you would have to specify that the target was invisible to have any hope of locating it. I don’t know if you could further describe the target to a specific description or, if it would just find the nearest invisible creature. Seems like the spell should specifically mention that it has the ability to “see” invisible creatures if it has such an ability.
Why stop at invisibility? If one is inclined to infer that Helping Hand is able to see through one glamer spell, why not other spells of that subschool, as well? If Helping Hand can discern the actual appearance of a creature that is magically not visible, why should it be defeated by Appearance of Life, Blend, Blend with Surroundings, Disguise Self, Ghostly Disguise, Haunted Fey Aspect, or Raiment of Command?
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a GM deciding that Helping Hand can discern that a glamer spell has changed a given subject’s "sensory qualities" to make it "seem to disappear." I do think that same GM will have to be prepared to be challenged to be consistent with other glamer spells, that change a given subject's sensory qualities to make it "look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else," as well, however.
Since the invisible troll does not appear to be 6 feet tall it would not be able to use that as part of the description. As I stated earlier if you use invisible as part of the description then any invisible creature would match the description.
If a creature’s appearance is altered by an illusion the spell will go by the appearance of the illusion. That means you cannot use helping hand to confirm an identity. Even a mundane disguise will throw off the spell.
If a GM wants to rule otherwise that is of course his right, but that is a house rule not RAW.