They are kinda like wizards they start accumulating a lot of options over time. Not only do you get a couple new formula per level you can learn more by purchasing them or reverse engineering them. I think it is pretty expected that over time you are going to have a ton of options. It is a bit daunting but it is one of the strength of alchemist to have formula for random situations that pop up.
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I can’t imagine not wanting all the bombs, half a dozen mutagen options, 3/4 of the elixirs, a new poison every couple of levels, and a few foods (e.g.Owl Screech Egg). If your GM allows infused items to make bottled monstrosities without the craft requirements those are also easy picks.
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They could, but you don't really hit this problem until you have a bunch of levels as you start running out of useful options. I know my sons Bomber in Spore War ran into this around level 15: there just wasn't much left that he wanted, especially since low level stuff is trivially cheap to buy now.
I don't think the "design space" for this is costing much and they almost certainly won't issue an errata to change it at this point.
what my son did is just kind of note "I haven't picked 2 formula yet" on the margins of his sheet and otherwise moved on. If we're back in town and something comes up he wants, he'll pick it then. Otherwise, no need to stress over it.
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The class for someone with system mastery, OCD, but without analysis paralysis. I present to you the Alchemist.
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With the free formulas and a chunk of my gold always going into new formulas, I still feel like there are always more that I'd like to have on hand. This is the last thing I'd ever want, playing an alchemist, where building a big, versatile toolbox is the whole point of the class.
I can’t imagine not wanting all the bombs, half a dozen mutagen options, 3/4 of the elixirs, a new poison every couple of levels, and a few foods (e.g.Owl Screech Egg). If your GM allows infused items to make bottled monstrosities without the craft requirements those are also easy picks.
Pucker Pickle and Galvanic Chew can also be useful for the party in a lot of situations.
The class for someone with system mastery, OCD, but without analysis paralysis. I present to you the Alchemist.
OCD is not accurate. However, the alchemist does require a player to understand what each item does and prepare and/or react accordingly; rather than focusing on a handful of options (or even just a couple).
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My impression was that Paizo was trying to make some classes intentionally less complex in the remaster, and others more complex. Because some people want simple and some people find complex entertaining.
Barbarian in the remaster dropped various "conditional" things, like Deny Advantage ("does that apply this time or no?"), penalties to AC that you sometimes have, rage that isn't always on yet and so on. Now it's just, roll for initiative and just start using your raging stats and your AC stays the same, and being flanked is just bad. For someone who wants to play a "simple, just hit stuff" class, barbarian got better.
Alchemist is the total opposite, they got more complex with the "promise" that any new book with more formulas in it adds more things you can play with. Because the alchemist has the breadth of a prepared spellcaster with the freedom of a spontaneous one. A player who enjoys scouring the archives for the perfect formulae for every situation is gonna get a lot out of these rules. So for that audience the new alchemist is better. But that's a specific audience they picked to focus on. If you mostly were looking for an uncomplicated bomb thrower then this is a bit much.
But yeah, I'm happy with it because I like that complexity.
For those who don't want the complexity, they can just save up their free formulas? Not for higher level formulas, of course. But if you don't want to spend the time going through the item lists looking for the next thing because you are happy with the items you are already able to create, then I don't see why that should be forced to happen at that exact time.
Just write an IOU for the level of item formula that you would get and continue playing.
For those who don't want the complexity, they can just save up their free formulas? Not for higher level formulas, of course. But if you don't want to spend the time going through the item lists looking for the next thing because you are happy with the items you are already able to create, then I don't see why that should be forced to happen at that exact time.
Just write an IOU for the level of item formula that you would get and continue playing.
I don't see a GM having any issue with it if their players just want to hold off but they may want you to note the level of those formula so you don't save up to suddenly get a bunch of higher ranked things. Still I see alchemists as wanting their apothacary shop worth of different things. Versatility on the fly with the VV is one of the big strengths of the alchemist. The bigger your library of formula the better you can whip out the right tool for the occasion.
You will wind up with a subset of every day used stuff but it is nice having access to make other stuff as needed in case it becomes necessary.
If you find yourself getting a bit overwhelmed getting those alchemist cards is handy so you can just have the cards for what you know in front of you staring you in the face haha.
I can’t imagine not wanting all the bombs, half a dozen mutagen options, 3/4 of the elixirs, a new poison every couple of levels, and a few foods (e.g.Owl Screech Egg). If your GM allows infused items to make bottled monstrosities without the craft requirements those are also easy picks.I have all the stuff I want.
I have all the Bombs I want.
Nobody in my party has any interest in Mutagens and I use them rarely myself.
And to use the Food, I would have to burn at least half my Versatile Vials just before starting combat. And knowing what I am facing. If their bonus is even worth it, because many get overshadowed by the passive bonuses people already have.I just unlocked 5 new bombs at level 12. By level 15, I will have used them up (and a 6th) using just Free Formulas. And then I have nothing to pick for 16-19. Again.
There are 27 non-poison, non-bomb, non-mutagen consumable items of common rarity between 16 and 19.
There are another 10 uncommon options to check with your GM about getting access to.
There are 16 poisons in that level range if you really need to round things out.
I know you may have the things you want, but there are a lot of options available for most folks. If you only care about bombs, then you will eventually run out of items, but Paizo isn't designing around that. If you don't want more, that's fine. Paizo doesn't really give much out for somebody deciding they don't need all the versatility at their disposal, so an uncluttered alchemy list will have to be its own reward. Even if they dropped it to one free formula per level, the class wouldn't get something in exchange.
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Those search links are including things that are Greater or Major versions of earlier items, which are not a new formula if you have the lower level version.
Those search links are including things that are Greater or Major versions of earlier items, which are not a new formula if you have the lower level version.
Ah, fair enough. It's true that I don't see a lot of things there that aren't upgrades to stuff, outside of poisons. You get 46 free formulae- call that half in various common non-mutagen elixirs, one-action foods, and tools, then a quarter in common bombs, and that last quarter going to poisons and/or mutagens, or being left blank if you don't want to touch either.
Since it's about a quarter of the formulae in question, I don't think it makes sense to cut the numbers in half. Getting a slew of common legendary-level (level 15-ish) alchemy items in there to keep high levels fresh would be nice after the change.
Those search links are including things that are Greater or Major versions of earlier items, which are not a new formula if you have the lower level version.Ah, fair enough. It's true that I don't see a lot of things there that aren't upgrades to stuff, outside of poisons.AoN has a a Filter under "Items" called "Show Parent". Which only shows the lowest level item.
The list is 9 entries long with that. All Poisons.
Oh man, that's super handy! Thanks; I've been looking for something like that.
Don't forget that you can use the free formulas to go back and pick up items you might have skipped or missed.
New items keep getting added, and there absolutely is significant powercreep with alch items. I played through most of Abm Vlts before Treasure Vault added soothing & numbing tonics, skunk bombs, etc. It was a big difference, lol.
Things like bottled night are only L3 items, but when your side has darkvision and the foes lack it, it's the most powerful item in your formula book.
Hi all, thank you for this discussion.
In regards to the following, is this only for the Alchemist or does it apply to formulas in general? For example, does this also benefit a character with the Alchemist Archetype? I could only find this information in the Alchemist Class description.
"In Remaster, the Formulas now include all the higher Level versions of the item for free.
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Hi all, thank you for this discussion.
In regards to the following, is this only for the Alchemist or does it apply to formulas in general? For example, does this also benefit a character with the Alchemist Archetype? I could only find this information in the Alchemist Class description.
"In Remaster, the Formulas now include all the higher Level versions of the item for free.
It applies to all formulae for everyone. Including other kinds of crafters: getting the Striking Rune formula also gives Greater/Major Striking in the same way.
Some items with multiple type entries get special treatment when it comes to formulas and upgrades. The existing knowledge you have about the item means you don't need to start from scratch with these items.
If you have the formula for an item, you don't need a different formula to Craft a different type of that item that's just a higher-level upgrade. For example, if you have the formula for a +1 weapon potency rune, you don't need to secure a new formula to etch a +2 weapon potency rune. This works similarly with items such as a spacious pouch with its multiple types or doubling rings with a base version and greater version.
You can also upgrade an item or rune to a stronger version. This essentially means you Craft a permanent item from a lower-level version of the same item. For example, you might upgrade +1 weapon potency rune to a +2 weapon potency rune or upgrade a spacious pouch type I to a spacious pouch type II. The cost for this upgrade is the full difference in Price between the items, and the Crafting check uses a DC for the item's new level. You don't have to upgrade step by step either! You could upgrade a spacious pouch type I directly to type III or type IV.
If the different types in an item entry are wildly different, such as with aeon stones or marvelous miniatures, you need separate formulas and can't directly upgrade the items. If a type of the item has a higher rarity, that type requires its own formula. The GM will make the determination if it's unclear and might bypass these rules in special circumstances or if it suits the theme of their game.