Planar lore changes / additions from PF2 to SF2 in GM Core


General Discussion


4 people marked this as a favorite.

What have people found interesting so far? Some things I've noticed:

3/4 of the evil elemental demigods have had something seriously bad happen to them. The other isn't mentioned at all.

Economic exploitation/trade of each elemental plane from Universe corps mentioned. Metal - bullish. Wood - bearish.

Astral Planar posses lead by psychopomps that include participation of pretty much everyone but daemons to hunt down soul hunters and kick out mortal meddlers.

Alazhra's back/never left.

Ghostbusters content creators jumping into the Ethereal Plane to record turning the locals into goo so they can upload it for clicks back home.

First World stealing tech instead of (or in addition) kidnapping mortals through portals.

Abaddon: Riders begone, they're still Horsemen here. Harbingers noted to have had high turnover/additions compared to other demigod categories: "Rising harbingers, like Firjadah the Twisted Screen Name or Batwahr the Creeping Fallout, establish themselves as personifications of death related to modern innovations"

Axiomites are of necessity more focused on Axis maintenance than universe maintenance than previously. Lissala has a big Axis district for "neutral" negotiations and arbitration.

Psychopomp ushers get additional responsibilities temporarily (re)assigned based on Universe wars: two ushers we've never heard of are newly responsible for overseeing Azlanti and Veskarium souls killed in the war.

Groetus has dipped pretty far since the end of the Gap and is approaching the Spire.

Nothing meaningful for Elysium, shortest bit.

Heaven tightly restricts tech ("knowledge corrupts"), only allowing trusted archons to have it. Everyone else does things the hard way, and the trade city still specializes in magic.

Hell manufactures starships on Avernus, Mammon may have risen to digital form to follow cryptocurrency evolution, Belial makes tech weapons, Geryon hosts data servers and digital libraries now, Baalzebul hosts a big battle royale. "Post-Gap evidence suggests the existence of a supposed tenth layer of Hell, but such references have been mostly scrubbed by the galactic mind wipe."

Zon-Shelyn is resident in both Nirvana (a newly dark area with strange stars) and the Netherworld. Velstracs are chimping out as a result of the change and doing extra intense body modifications to try to post through it.

Outer Rifts: "In this modern era, many realms have developed within the Outer Rifts related to the technological advancements of the Universe. The partly digitized Dark Lobby is a brutal realm of corridors and semi-digital fiends managed by the demon lord of games, Icarthian. Vast offices and data storage centers house legions of larvae shades chained to desks and forced to stare at unintelligible monitors, all at the behest of Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment."

Dark Archive

I was on board right up until "Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment." It's about the eye-rolliest epithet I've heard in ages.

The description of the realm was cool.
Oh well.

Grand Lodge

Ectar wrote:

I was on board right up until "Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment." It's about the eye-rolliest epithet I've heard in ages.

The description of the realm was cool.
Oh well.

Sounds like a Demon who loves Karoshi

Also, according to the time travel section, Zon-Shelyn will readily appear as Zon-Kuthon or Shelyn to any followers who can't accept their combination.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ectar wrote:

I was on board right up until "Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment." It's about the eye-rolliest epithet I've heard in ages.

The description of the realm was cool.
Oh well.

Hmm. A few alternatives, then.

"Demon lord of overwork" is probably the simplest.
"Of endless hours."
"Of ceaseless toil."

It's certainly a demon lord that's useful to reference. I've got an Eoxian gameshow host who presents risking your life for fame and fortune in a deadly trivia competition as an alternative to the crushing anonymity of working for one of these companies and dying of stress before retirement. Giving him a demonic boogeyman makes that pitch all the more legitimized.


Mangaholic13 wrote:
Ectar wrote:

I was on board right up until "Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment." It's about the eye-rolliest epithet I've heard in ages.

The description of the realm was cool.
Oh well.

Sounds like a Demon who loves Karoshi

Also, according to the time travel section, Zon-Shelyn will readily appear as Zon-Kuthon or Shelyn to any followers who can't accept their combination.

That kinda cheapens the narrative impact of those gods' sacrifice. Maybe Paizo got a lot of pushback from the Gorum fans during the Godsrain, idk.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Ectar wrote:

I was on board right up until "Ksedahl, the demon lord of ceaseless employment." It's about the eye-rolliest epithet I've heard in ages.

The description of the realm was cool.
Oh well.

Hmm. A few alternatives, then.

"Demon lord of overwork" is probably the simplest.
"Of endless hours."
"Of ceaseless toil."

It's certainly a demon lord that's useful to reference. I've got an Eoxian gameshow host who presents risking your life for fame and fortune in a deadly trivia competition as an alternative to the crushing anonymity of working for one of these companies and dying of stress before retirement. Giving him a demonic boogeyman makes that pitch all the more legitimized.

Ceaseless toil gets closer. Imo the name really needs to emphasize the wholly unproductive nature of the demon lord's ministrations.

Yes the work is endless, but it's also pointless, simple past the point of mind-numbing, and produces nothing.
It's the extension of white collar drudgery into the realm of genuine Evil.

And if the name isn't strong enough (and I argue it's not) , it just sounds silly, banal, and non-threatening.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm not sure what the sin is here and what kind of people end up in this realm. Tech bros demanding (and providing) 80 hour work weeks for shitcos in the delusional pursuit of valuable equity that obviously isn't ever going to happen?

Fast food assistant manager who keeps getting turned over for his general manager franchise ownership application but doesn't quit?

Ununionized game developer who works long hours for subsistence wages for the love of the game?

I guess the special action that activates the mental damage would be something like spending an action doing nothing at all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:

I'm not sure what the sin is here and what kind of people end up in this realm. Tech bros demanding (and providing) 80 hour work weeks for s+#*cos in the delusional pursuit of valuable equity that obviously isn't ever going to happen?

Fast food assistant manager who keeps getting turned over for his general manager franchise ownership application but doesn't quit?

Ununionized game developer who works long hours for subsistence wages for the love of the game?

I guess the special action that activates the mental damage would be something like spending an action doing nothing at all.

Managers who run companies to trap workers with tactics like emotional abuse, unreasonable expectations, false negative references, blacklisting, low wages, holding immigration status hostage, etc. Anywhere people are peeing in bottles because they can't take breaks.

Possibly also people who throw themselves into work in order to avoid their families.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I interviewed for an Amazon warehouse manager position when I got out of the Army, and one of the interviewers positively seethed when I said I'd follow whatever policies were in place, but lacking any information on that I'd pull a guy for medical treatment or assessment if he claimed he had a sprained hand/arm while working the packing line. I guess he'd be a good candidate.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
I interviewed for an Amazon warehouse manager position when I got out of the Army, and one of the interviewers positively seethed when I said I'd follow whatever policies were in place, but lacking any information on that I'd pull a guy for medical treatment or assessment if he claimed he had a sprained hand/arm while working the packing line. I guess he'd be a good candidate.

Yeah, that sounds like it exactly.

I could see some manager who expects to spend the afterlife climbing the ranks of Hell, carving out his niche of power in the hierarchy, only to end up in Ksedahl's domain because of all the broken promises used to keep people working a few more months.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:

I'm not sure what the sin is here and what kind of people end up in this realm. Tech bros demanding (and providing) 80 hour work weeks for s+#*cos in the delusional pursuit of valuable equity that obviously isn't ever going to happen?

Fast food assistant manager who keeps getting turned over for his general manager franchise ownership application but doesn't quit?

Ununionized game developer who works long hours for subsistence wages for the love of the game?

I guess the special action that activates the mental damage would be something like spending an action doing nothing at all.

Managers who run companies to trap workers with tactics like emotional abuse, unreasonable expectations, false negative references, blacklisting, low wages, holding immigration status hostage, etc. Anywhere people are peeing in bottles because they can't take breaks.

Possibly also people who throw themselves into work in order to avoid their families.

Owners who hire an excessive number of part time employees, because it's cheaper to pay 16 people to work part time than it is to pay 8 people to work full time (since that would require benefits in many states).

Cold call centers.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I interviewed for an Amazon warehouse manager position when I got out of the Army, and one of the interviewers positively seethed when I said I'd follow whatever policies were in place, but lacking any information on that I'd pull a guy for medical treatment or assessment if he claimed he had a sprained hand/arm while working the packing line. I guess he'd be a good candidate.

Yeah, that sounds like it exactly.

I could see some manager who expects to spend the afterlife climbing the ranks of Hell, carving out his niche of power in the hierarchy, only to end up in Ksedahl's domain because of all the broken promises used to keep people working a few more months.

Yeah amazon like jobs where they aim for 150% turn over because they don't want anybody getting enough experience so just soullessly grinding down employees toss them out and repeat the process. Having a special hell for that BS seems fitting.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's surprisingly hard to think of a name that captures both the indefinite stretch of time, and also the nature of the particular triviality that it represents. "The Forever-Tedium" is the best I've got so far.

Grand Archive

Perpdepog wrote:
It's surprisingly hard to think of a name that captures both the indefinite stretch of time, and also the nature of the particular triviality that it represents. "The Forever-Tedium" is the best I've got so far.

Sisyphean hell?

Quote:
The gods forced him to roll an immense boulder up a hill only for it to roll back down every time it neared the top, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on contemporary culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean (/sɪsɪˈfiːən/).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I like either the Evertoil or the Nevergoal personally. Also as a manager who has had to do both too many self evaluations and direct report evaluations. I would give this hell a review of 2.2 for not meeting expectations and unsatisfactory results. ;)


ckobbe wrote:
I like either the Evertoil or the Nevergoal personally. Also as a manager who has had to do both too many self evaluations and direct report evaluations. I would give this hell a review of 2.2 for not meeting expectations and unsatisfactory results. ;)

Nevergoal sounds pretty good. "Toil" sounds a bit too close to Droskar, but I like the "ever" there; maybe "Everdrudge?"


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

This is going to be a little long, so apologies, but I finally got a chance to read the planar section of the the GM Core and here are some of my random thoughts...

Plane of Wood.
Because of the fractal growth falling into areas of asymmetry... computer specialists could possible use/be researching ways to use wood slivers from the same tree as code cyphers and unique encryption systems. Possible creating computer systems/files that can only be accessed by reading the growth patterns in woods slivers from the same source.

The Netherworld
Velstracs who are attempting to be genuinely helpful due to the new paradigm of Zon-Shelyn. Seeking out those who have flourished though suffering. Spiritual suffering that has refined someone like a coal to diamond. Split between those Velstrac who still believe pain to break others down to something new and degenerated and those who seek to learn from/foster those who's suffering leads to them becoming stronger beings... Interesting possible concepts to explore, but extremely sensitive topics with a need for all the normal buy in and consent rules.

Abaddon
Hate that they are still called the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Legacy of real-world gender and image bias. Will probably refer to them personally as either the Riders of the Apocalypse or Heralds of the End.

Axis
AbadarCorp is referenced as having a branch site here. To me it makes more sense that this would be the legendary Home Office. I'm sure with the starstone and Abasalom station being the effective center of the universe due to its drift beacon it makes sense for the office on the station to be the primary one in the Universe, I suspect AbadarCorp is intended to predate the station and to be pan-dimensional. I like the idea of AbadarCorp and Abadar religion referring to the Axis location as the Home Office. Visiting or receiving training at Home Office should be major AbadarCorp job perks. Promotions to the Home Office should be the most fiercely competitive job openings in the entire organization and transferring to Home Office should be legendary events.

Boneyard
Psychopomps running an app called UBJudged that claims to have up to date predictions of your souls afterlife destination based off your infosphere profiles and social medias. 43% accuracy even.
The Cycle of Souls is a known quantity to at least some in the Universe... End of life care/hospice care could involve classes/lessons/techniques for your soul to avoid the depredations of soul thieves on the journey to the Spire and judgement

Heaven
Anti-tech/Anti-knowledge... Angels can make interesting antagonists for knowledge based characters or those who learn that which was not meant for mortals to know. Angel hit squads showing up when characters learn something they shouldn't is a interesting twist.
Did Angels/Heaven cause the Gap! Mindwipe the Universe because some knowledge became known that threatened to destabilize creation and was spreading through the Universe like a virus. I dig this idea.
Could the Hellknights of the Eclipse (anti dangerous messaging/media) actually be supported by Heaven and Angels instead of Hell and Fiends?

Hell
Mammon Banking should be a thing. Great interest rates and return on you investment in exchange for knowing your capital is being used for unsavory/immoral/suppressive endeavors, possibly knowingly tainting your soul. Better returns and perks than AbadarCorp Banking as well.
Dark Infosphere links though special unholy interfaces to the data servers in Geryon. Infernal programming languages.

Outer Rifts
The Dark Lobby/Icarthian is the source of those urban legend games that true fanboys salivate over finding and playing that actually turn out to be cursed that result in death/misery/corruption. Also i like the idea of demon computer game programmers.
Already mentioned that I liked the idea of calling Ksedahl's realm either the Everdrudge or the Nevergoal. Perpdepog mentioned that toil sounds too close to Droskar, but Droskar resides in the Outer Reaches. Are Ksedahl and Doskar aligned with each other or rivals. Could the Everdrudge be an adjacent realm of an ally or a dig at a rival or both. I'd have to answer that question in my own mind before settling on a realm name for Ksedahl.

Akashic Record
I have a lot of questions about this realm and am interested in seeing it expanded. The Akashic Sync feat with successes giving out false information tends to imply that the Akashic Record is not 100% accurate or factual. I'm pretty sure I also read somewhere that information on the Gap isn't available in the Akashic Record, so either hidden or redacted.
Who is adding info the the Record, who is fact checking...
New divinities in the Archivists to explore. New planar residents in the Recorders to explore. Possible source of new versatile heritage.
So far we have class features, in Universe organizations, extra-planar locations, feats, spells and magic items all tied to this plane. I suspect we will be getting more info down the road and I am intrigued. The only thing I am hesitant about is its links to real world Buddhism and Theosophy and respect for the differences between the game concept and the real world beliefs.


As for the Order of the Eclipse and angels, we do know for certain that (Era of the Eclipse spoilers):

Spoiler:
the order was founded with the support of a propaganda devil who later left over the founder being an oathbreaker.

I think it works best as two groups using superficially similar methods with different motives and degrees of how far they'll go. Angels feeling that the "evil power-grabbing censorship" of the Order gives their "holy and benevolent management of knowledge" a bad reputation.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

My copy of the Order of the Eclipse is sadly stuck in my sidecart, eagerly waiting for it to ship though!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
The partly digitized Dark Lobby is a brutal realm of corridors and semi-digital fiends managed by the demon lord of games, Icarthian.

This makes me laugh the more I think about it.

"Is that a a 12 year old boy with that obsence user name calling me all those racial and religious epithets? Trying to make me lose my cool and lose the game, or make me lose my temper and lose my soul? And is there really any difference?"

I like to imagine the semi-digital fiends have a gamertage floating over their heads and a running score and health/status bar (it may lie) next to it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
ckobe wrote:

Akashic Record

I have a lot of questions about this realm and am interested in seeing it expanded. The Akashic Sync feat with successes giving out false information tends to imply that the Akashic Record is not 100% accurate or factual. I'm pretty sure I also read somewhere that information on the Gap isn't available in the Akashic Record, so either hidden or redacted.
Who is adding info the the Record, who is fact checking...
New divinities in the Archivists to explore. New planar residents in the Recorders to explore. Possible source of new versatile heritage.
So far we have class features, in Universe organizations, extra-planar locations, feats, spells and magic items all tied to this plane. I suspect we will be getting more info down the road and I am intrigued. The only thing I am hesitant about is its links to real world Buddhism and Theosophy and respect for the differences between the game concept and the real world beliefs.

I think you misunderstand. The failure chance of the feat isn't because the Akashic Record can be wrong. It's because the character using the feat is trying to sift through functionally infinite amounts of information with their very finite mind. The challenge is to just get the knowledge you need without getting it scrambled with countless other bits of unrelated trivia.

In a lot of harsher systems and settings trying to accomplish such a thing wouldn't just risk getting the wrong data but having your conciousness obliterated by accidentally "pouring an ocean into a teacup."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I certainly agree that that is a possibility. The false information from a success could also simply be bias corrupting the interpretation.
Yes some early people believed frogs where spontaneously created from mud. Your brain gets frogs are sometimes spontaneously created from mud as false data because your bias assumes a literal fact vs a historical myth.

I steal time from real life to read, so of course I may have missed something, but I don't recall anything definitive on the fidelity of the Akashic Record. I'm looking forward to seeing where Paizo goes with this. We already know well be getting at least one linked monster in the Akashic Dragon.

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Starfinder General Discussion / Planar lore changes / additions from PF2 to SF2 in GM Core All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.