What Happened to Stellar Arrangements?

[Perpdepog]

Basically what the title says. Has anyone heard what happened to the solarian's Stellar Arrangement class feature and why it was removed? I mean, they seem powerful enough without it, and I know the former arrangement abilities are now feats, but I did like how they let you personalize your solarian a bit more and choose which aspect of the Cycle you enjoyed most.
I especially liked how they gave you things in the mid levels. Solarians don't really see any expansions to their core gimmick in the midgame and it makes their progression feel, not weak, but a little light on sauce, if that makes sense? Like most martial classes have some feature that shows up around levels 8-9, and sometimes another that shows up around levels 14-16, that expands their core feature a bit.

[Christopher#2411504]

IIRC, it misled people think Cycling as not a viable option, if you had those.
All their stuff was turned into Feats. So there was no reason to keep them.

There also wasn't a lot of room for more then the 3 at launch.

[Happy Little Trees]

A lot of people felt like the favored one was just always better than the other and it kind of locked you to the one but instead of rebalancing them they effectively hard nerfed the solarian by locking all of them away behind feats so instead of automatically getting some cool abilities that are what make your class unique every once in awhile; they hand you slightly flavored reactive locking you down to your every once in awhile class feat as the only truly themed thing you get. The fact that for example you unlock supernova and plasma ejection both at level 4 hindering higher level feat progression if you want both is very frustrating.

[Squiggit]

Really dislike this change. Feels like a big blow to Solarian identity that they no longer have any unique action at level 1. Their core kit is now just only Strike related, and they aren't even great at it.

Despite the logic about wanting to make Solarians feel less defined by a specific attunement I think this change makes it worse at low levels, because there are now no base features that interact with cycling at all.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Squiggit wrote:

Really dislike this change. Feels like a big blow to Solarian identity that they no longer have any unique action at level 1. Their core kit is now just only Strike related, and they aren't even great at it.

Despite the logic about wanting to make Solarians feel less defined by a specific attunement I think this change makes it worse at low levels, because there are now no base features that interact with cycling at all.

Your base feature that makes you want to change states is your Solar Manifestations and their effects, and half your first level feat options have cycle.

[Squiggit]

That's not a base feature using the cycling system though. The original three stellar arrangement actions all involved cycling as part of their mechanics, now that doesn't exist anymore.

From experience, it's pretty common (perhaps even optimal under a lot of circumstances) to see Solarian players turn on photon mode and then sit in it all combat at lower levels if they don't take one of a couple specific cycling related feats. Even then, the most common version of that I've seen is starting in graviton, then cycling once on a stellar rush and that's it. There's very little active engagement with the feature until much much later in the game (and even that's highly feat reliant).

[Mangaholic13]

Personally? I'm glad they got rid of Solarian Arrangement. Makes the class better in my book. No forced choice, you can pick and choose what photon, graviton, or cycling powers you want.

...Would have been nice to have a few more features built in as a replacement (some ideas I've had included letting Solarian's use certain cantrips based on their Attunement.

Squiggit wrote:

That's not a base feature using the cycling system though. The original three stellar arrangement actions all involved cycling as part of their mechanics, now that doesn't exist anymore.

From experience, it's pretty common (perhaps even optimal under a lot of circumstances) to see Solarian players turn on photon mode and then sit in it all combat at lower levels if they don't take one of a couple specific cycling related feats. Even then, the most common version of that I've seen is starting in graviton, then cycling once on a stellar rush and that's it. There's very little active engagement with the feature until much much later in the game (and even that's highly feat reliant).

Nonat1s made a video on the Solarian recently.

I suggest you watch it:
Nonat1s's Solarian video
Because it sounds like you (or the people you know) are underestimating what graviton offers... Especially in melee.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

While I definitely am glad the subclasses are gone, I absolutely do think that it's a shame to lose having the cool factor of "I can make a Black Hole at level 1".

I honestly wouldn't have minded if "Solar AoE" was a one-action ability that all Solarians got at level 1, and it acts as either Black Hole or Supernova depending on your attunement. Maybe it would be an alternate feature to the Solar Flare, where you trade a ranged single target damage option for a ranged AoE?

[Christopher#2411504]

I think as a subclass, the arrangements were inherently flawed:
1. There was only ever going to be 3. How many more options besides "light, dark, mixed" could there be?
2. At the same time they were not impactful enough to have only 3. Cloistered vs Warpriest Cleric is a serious choice. Cloth caster vs durable caster. Even. Proficiencies changed, making those two closer to class Archertypes.

We are better off without them.

[Squiggit]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Nonat1s made a video on the Solarian recently.
I suggest you watch it:
Nonat1s's Solarian video
Because it sounds like you (or the people you know) are underestimating what graviton offers... Especially in melee.

Graviton's fine in the right situations. Doesn't change that it's very easy and consistent to just sit in photon forever and that there's no longer any more mechanics that trigger or involve cycling.

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

While I definitely am glad the subclasses are gone, I absolutely do think that it's a shame to lose having the cool factor of "I can make a Black Hole at level 1".

For me this is the most important thing. Whether it's a subclass or a free ability ala Inventor's explode or a subset of bespoke mechanics like a thaumaturge's implement or exemplar's ikon, I think it's an absolute shame that the Solarian has no core power at level 1 other than its striking tools. It diminishes the identity of the class a lot by turning your core chassis into... reactive strike and the ability to pick traits for your weapon which is just extremely thin on class fantasy or identity.

Christopher#2411504 wrote:

1. There was only ever going to be 3. How many more options besides "light, dark, mixed" could there be?

I don't really get this one on a couple levels:

1. The core component of an arrangement was three unique powers connected by a theme, so the only requirement to add a fourth or fifth or hundredth is just coming up with three new abilities linked together in some way.

2. Even if we take your assertion in 1 as unequivocally true... so what? Like I can't fathom why it would be a problem that future books are unlikely to add more subclasses. It's not like Paizo publishes subclasses very often anyways.

[Mangaholic13]

Squiggit wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

Nonat1s made a video on the Solarian recently.
I suggest you watch it:
Nonat1s's Solarian video
Because it sounds like you (or the people you know) are underestimating what graviton offers... Especially in melee.

Graviton's fine in the right situations. Doesn't change that it's very easy and consistent to just sit in photon forever and that there's no longer any more mechanics that trigger or involve cycling.

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

While I definitely am glad the subclasses are gone, I absolutely do think that it's a shame to lose having the cool factor of "I can make a Black Hole at level 1".

For me this is the most important thing. Whether it's a subclass or a free ability ala Inventor's explode or a subset of bespoke mechanics like a thaumaturge's implement or exemplar's ikon, I think it's an absolute shame that the Solarian has no core power at level 1 other than its striking tools. It diminishes the identity of the class a lot by turning your core chassis into... reactive strike and the ability to pick traits for your weapon which is just extremely thin on class fantasy or identity.

Christopher#2411504 wrote:

1. There was only ever going to be 3. How many more options besides "light, dark, mixed" could there be?

I don't really get this one on a couple levels:

1. The core component of an arrangement was three unique powers connected by a theme, so the only requirement to add a fourth or fifth or hundredth is just coming up with three new abilities linked together in some way.

2. Even if we take your assertion in 1 as unequivocally true... so what? Like I can't fathom why it would be a problem that future books are unlikely to add more subclasses. It's not like Paizo publishes subclasses very often anyways.

The main problem I have, personally, Squiggit, is why then, would anyone pick an Arrangement besides Degradant?

After all, Degradant has Defy Gravity, which gives you flight speed.

[pauljathome]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

why then, would anyone pick an Arrangement besides Degradant?

After all, Degradant has Defy Gravity, which gives you flight speed

A fight speed really isn't all that special in Starfinder.

[Squark]

I do feel like maybe they should have given you an extra class feat with cycle at the levels arraignments used to be at.

[Perpdepog]

Squark wrote:

I do feel like maybe they should have given you an extra class feat with cycle at the levels arraignments used to be at.

I'm in agreement there. Kind of why I made the thread; it feels weird that solarians get no real expansions to their core things as they level. Yeah, they get feats, and their feats are neat, but their Solar Manifestations don't grow stronger as they level or anything like that.

I'm currently toying with giving solarians a Fighter's Flexibility-like feature, call it Personal Cycle or something, at about levels 9 and then 15-17. You get a bonus solarian feat when you hit those levels, with the caveat that the feat interacts with atunement in some way. Then you pick a mode, and that feat is only useable in that mode.
Take two feats linked to photons and you are a radiant solarian, for example.

[Christopher#2411504]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

The main problem I have, personally, Squiggit, is why then, would anyone pick an Arrangement besides Degradant?

After all, Degradant has Defy...

This is SF2, so Flight isn't special.

At least 3 Ancestries give you flight at level 1.
And that is before you consider the Level 5 Armor Upgrade.
And even the Wolves have a ranged attack to shoot you down.

[Christopher#2411504]

Squark wrote:

I do feel like maybe they should have given you an extra class feat with cycle at the levels arraignments used to be at.

That is a really good idea and would get people on the Track to cycle more.

[Dargoth876]

Stellar Arrangement must have been described in "The Gap", along with the teaching coming from different philosophies. Solarians forgot how to teach it after the Gap.

That would explain Carn and other solarians in "Era of the Eclipse" and not finding the rules in SF2 player core.

The playtest rules are an anomaly created by witchwarper when they replaced technomancers as main arcane casters.

[Mangaholic13]

Dargoth876 wrote:

Stellar Arrangement must have been described in "The Gap", along with the teaching coming from different philosophies. Solarians forgot how to teach it after the Gap.

That would explain Carn and other solarians in "Era of the Eclipse" and not finding the rules in SF2 player core.

The playtest rules are an anomaly created by witchwarper when they replaced technomancers as main arcane casters.

...I'm favoriting this because it made me laugh.