Not Yet Announced SF2e Hopes

[Zoken44]

heads up Paul, *They*

I made the same mistake.

[Driftbourne]

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

◈ Worlanisi - they were my baby as a freelancer, so I'd love to see them back

We sure could have used some Worlanisi Luck last weekend. Someone at the table rolled a nat 1, spent a hero point, and rolled another nat 1

[moosher12]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, the RWBY archetype? "It's also a gun!"

I think "It's also a gun" would be closer to making combination weapons in Starfinder, which I'd very much enjoy.

Though yeah, I'd also like the ability to fix bayonets, because sometimes it's fun to go a little Gears of War on some folks. Or Tally Ho, let's charge. Gotta be sure to wear your kilt and have your bagpipes ready while doing it of course.

[pauljathome]

Zoken44 wrote:

heads up Paul, *They*

I made the same mistake.

Thanks for pointing this out. I apologize. I assure you all (ESPECIALLY Maya should they read this) that I just didn't realize their pronoun. No disrespect or insult was intended.

[Zoken44]

Like I said, I did the same thing. Not a big deal. Like we both said, they're super awesome so, just takin' that of their plate.

And as a RWBY fan I also love the idea of combination weapons.

[Squiggit]

I really want a planar witchwarper with the primal tradition. It seems like such a natural fit and fun concept space that for a short period of time I gaslit myself into thinking it already existed and that witchwarpers were anything-but-divine in the same way mystics have three traditions.

[Mangaholic13]

Squiggit wrote:

I really want a planar witchwarper with the primal tradition. It seems like such a natural fit and fun concept space that for a short period of time I gaslit myself into thinking it already existed and that witchwarpers were anything-but-divine in the same way mystics have three traditions.

Not the craziest idea I've ever heard/thought of.

Perhaps the Quantum Field effect could be similar to the Anomaly one, except instead of concentration, it's manipulate?

[Justnobodyfqwl]

Squiggit wrote:

I really want a planar witchwarper with the primal tradition. It seems like such a natural fit and fun concept space that for a short period of time I gaslit myself into thinking it already existed and that witchwarpers were anything-but-divine in the same way mystics have three traditions.

I don't know what Pathfinder 3e is going to look like, but I have been absolutely thinking that their version of the Druid could easily look a lot like a Primal Witchwarper. I'd be very down to play a Druid that can make a customizable zone of Natural Land™, with the ability to turn it into an active volcano to deal fire damage vs turn it into slippery ice to make difficult terrain.

[moosher12]

Been musing since the playtest. I'd like to see an Occult Witchwarper paradox that projects your mindscape or dreamscape. Sort of an Occult alternative to the Anomaly Paradox, where instead of borrowing from alternate realities, you're borrowing from mindscapes in the Astral Plane and Dreamscapes in the Dreamland, though particularly from your own.

The idea had come up as I'd been watching Jujutsu Kaisen last year with the domain expansion thing, and a few years ago Psychonauts 2 came out, and had me imagining, a Witchwarper's Quantum Field can do a lot of fun things with those sort of themes.

[Zoken44]

It's my thread and I'll Necro if I want to.

Saw something mentioned in another thread and it made me think: Yeah, there should be a class for that: The Survival Skill.

I mean we're talking about deep space, the final frontier, blah-blah-blah. There should be a class, probably a support oriented one, where they have a focus on survival and wisdom. but with subclasses depending on what kind of environment they want to survive in.

I don't know what their central gimmick would be. but any ideas?

[WatersLethe]

I could see some kind of Starsinger/Xenoempath type class that communes with creatures and environments in a kind of druid way, but ends up being like a space Steve Erwin / Bear Grylls who uses a deep understanding rather than magic. With the amount of handwavium it might be similar to thaumaturge.

[pauljathome]

Zoken44 wrote:

It's my thread and I'll Necro if I want to.

Saw something mentioned in another thread and it made me think: Yeah, there should be a class for that: The Survival Skill.

I mean we're talking about deep space, the final frontier, blah-blah-blah. There should be a class, probably a support oriented one, where they have a focus on survival and wisdom. but with subclasses depending on what kind of environment they want to survive in.

I don't know what their central gimmick would be. but any ideas?

The mystic with the Xeno druid archetype already comes pretty close to this. Thematically, at least, if not quite mechanically.

Not sure there is enough room for this to be an entire class. Maybe a subclass.

[QuidEst]

I think it'd make for a killer archetype. We had it as one of the first SF1 archetypes- emergency repairs, better untrained skill uses, etc. That's more in the skill and general feat category, but having some updated abilities for SF2 would be cool.

A full class? It's a bit like Ranger in a more space-y setting, so there's room, but I imagine it needs a combat schtick too.

[Zoken44]

So I'm thinking a class that is (thematically) all about exploration. The Milo Thatch, the Jim Hawkins, Moana, Starfleet, they want to know what is out there. Eager to reach into the unknown and tell everyone else about it.

Whether for a sense of wonder, a sense of duty, or a sense for profit, you are choosing to boldly go.

I'm thinking something with recall knowledge, but instead of forcing a weakness, like the Thaumaturge, you force the creature to be off guard to you, and then on subsequent turns you can use that recall knowledge to force other effects and statuses on them, especially based on subclass. but it would always use survival, which would auto scale, instead of the normal recall knowledge checks.

[Perpdepog]

Squiggit wrote:

I really want a planar witchwarper with the primal tradition. It seems like such a natural fit and fun concept space that for a short period of time I gaslit myself into thinking it already existed and that witchwarpers were anything-but-divine in the same way mystics have three traditions.

Funnily enough my hypothetical planar witchwarper is divine rather than primal, with your paradox being that you are, somehow, simultaneously, both dead and judged by Pharasma and alive at the same time, so you can open portals to the outer plane your soul is supposed to be in.

When I think of primal witchwarpers, which I also agree make total sense as a possibility, I think of a witchwarper perhaps tied to the distant past of the universe who summons up areas of ice age frost, or ancient volcanos, or prehistoric plantlife. That or there is something funky and paradoxical with your genetic code, like you somehow evolved so perfectly with other versions of yourself that you metaphysically touch, and that gives you access to the "nature" of another universe.

I could see a primal planar witchwarper, naturally tied to something like the Elemental Planes, I'm just not sure what the paradox narrative would be, and that's what I tend to focus on with the witchwarper when I think up hypothetical subclasses.

[Zoken44]

Things I would want in my fantasized "Pathfinder Stuff in Starfinder" book.

Alchemist
Not sure if anything is needed here, especially since we want a biohacker to come out and we wouldn't want to step on toes.

Animist
Maybe some new apparitions, but their stuff seems pretty evergreen

Barbarian
Instincts to deal with more sci-fi concepts like Entropy, Super-Novas/black holes, Luddite/anti-Tech, or Pro-Tech

Bard
new muses would always be nice.

Champion
New causes as I've said in other places, a For the Lulz cause which is all about chaos and disruption playable either as a comedian or a troll

Cleric
We have gods with rules for them, but more futuristic divine spells would always be good.

Commander
New tactics that focus on the ranged meta and the greater availablity of flight, or wonky gravity

Druid
as with the Cleric, more futuristic spells in the Primal list, as well as Druidic Orders for alien environments: like the Silica order about crystalline life forms, the Tech Order, for places like Aballon (that may need to be a class archetype)

Exemplar
Weird space-y Ikons and Epithets obviously.

Fighter
Perfect, no notes.

Guardian
Again, not much to desire here, other than perhaps some feats to do with energy shields and personal force-fields

Gunslinger
again, not much you need to do, other than specify their abilities are limited to physical ammo fire-arms.

Inventor
New modifications that can be put on Innovations. I would say more innovations, but that could stray too close to the mechanic.

Investigator
A methodology that focuses on Infospheres, and hacking

Kineticist
Always more impulses and equipment, but I'd want that in a normal PF2e book.

Magus
A hybrid study for powered weapons.

Monk
New stances and feats for this strange new world.

Oracle
New space themed Mysteries.

Psychic
I got nothing on this one.

Ranger
Can't think of anything for this.

Rogue
Looking good

Sorcerer
New bloodlines having to do with the Gap, with the Drift, with the New Born or the Ghost Levels

Summoner
Strange new alien Eidolons! and new construct/Robotic Eidolons.

Swashbuckler
A style that revolves around flight, and manipulating gravity.

Thaumaturge
New implements and expanded lore on how they operate with space now a (somewhat) more known quantity.

Witch
New Patrons revolving around more deeps space themes.

Wizard
New Arcane Thesis options! in addition to new schools.

[Driftbourne]

Zoken44 wrote:

Things I would want in my fantasized "Pathfinder Stuff in Starfinder" book.

Bard
new muses would always be nice.

Some way for a bard to be in a band and not a just solo artist.

Zoken44 wrote:

Inventor
New modifications that can be put on Innovations. I would say more innovations, but that could stray too close to the mechanic.

I'd like to see new innovations for starships. Since starships are not part of the coreruels might be best if that was part of the starship rules, then in the class. Same with Machanic, I'd like to see Machanics being able to put their turret on a statship.

[moosher12]

So I'm going through the Starship Operations Manual for 1E, and it reminded me of something.

When we get tactical ship rules, I hope ship weapons actually get descriptions. That ship weapons were just flulff-less stat blocks felt oddly bare bones for Paizo. And I hope the 2E ship-weapons have PC weapon-style descriptions. (Also, because I tend to consume less scifi content, I'm not as innately versed in scifi weapon concepts, and having descriptions of what the weapons themselves do does a lot to help me understand the weapon, especially for the more scifi concept ones)

On top of this, if we get build rules to add modules to a Starship as a base of operations and home for the party, I'd love for Paizo at one point to grant optional rules to flex these rules into other vehicle genres.

For example, I'd like to see airships (Highwind from Final Fantasy 7), which would thrive in the Plane of Air, or in Orry. Sea vessels (Thousand Sunny from One Piece), which can thrive on Vesk 2. Submarines (Tuatha de Danaan from Full metal Panic) which can thrive on Kalo Mahoi, Vesk 2, or the Plane of Water. And land vehicles (Taranis from Fuga: Melodies of Steel) which can thrive on most any terrestrial planet.

[Zoken44]

I've said it else where, but I hope when they put out Starship building rules they have rules for genres of ships.

The Ship that is also an enemy, such as from the Expanse, or other hard Sci-fi where you constantly have to work to maintain the ship.

The Ship that is the marvel of tech such as from any Star Trek series. It is almost less an object as an environment more stories can be told on.

The Ship that is part of the crew, how to get your PC's to form emotional attachments with the ship.

and the Ship with a super-power, ala the heart of gold or Outlaw Star.

[Rotfell]

Would love ships to have a structure similar to the characters. Just instead of ancestry, background, and class, we would have origin (if it's tech, biotech, crystal-like, etc.), manufactor, and classification.

Kingmaker 2e made the same with its kingdom, including granting feats for customization.

I also liked SF1's idea of TIM (Training Interface Module) that basically allowed character options to work into ship combat. While I would probably use only general features of classes and some skill feats there (to keep it sane), it does feel good to see the own character matter more in starship combat.

[Moon_Goddess]

I will purchase as many pages as they let me of "home electronics" in the Starfinder world, What do starfinders not adventuring have around the home.

[moosher12]

I read by the Golarion World park again while reading the GM Core, and it made me think

Starfinder Golarion World

This would be a Lost-Omens length book to the tune of Galaxy Guide or Galactic Ancestries. From a story point of view, such a book would cover just how much has been learned about Golarion from gathered snippets of memory plus archeological finds. (The map on pages 10 and 11 of the Galaxy Guide reveals that quite a bit was rediscovered about Golarion's geography to produce such a complete map). Such a book can take a format inspired by Rival Academies, as representatives of various departments explain different aspects of Golarion, say an expert on ancient magic, an expert in traditional crafting techniques, an expert in historical martial arts and warfare, among other subjects.

Mechanically, this would also be a perfect opportunity to go more in-depth with compatibility rules that the GM Core laid the ground work for, but was not quite exacting in.

This is where we can add "rennaisance faire" options for Starfinder classes, while adding scifi options to Pathfinder classes, as such an attraction would be the sort of place where historic reenactors might experiment with practicing old techniques while implanting some modern wisdoms, while alike taking the wisdom of the past and bringing it forward to modern kits.

[Zoken44]

So, with the knowledge that they plan to focus more on new classes after Tech Core before bringing older ones back, let's bring that discussion back.

What sort of new classes would you like to see that are more specific to Starfinder's setting?

[Justnobodyfqwl]

Zoken44 wrote:

So, with the knowledge that they plan to focus more on new classes after Tech Core before bringing older ones back, let's bring that discussion back.

What sort of new classes would you like to see that are more specific to Starfinder's setting?

I think that Paizo really likes classes these days to have a common pop culture power fantasy + a strong mechanical hook. Especially if that mechanical hook is "you have discrete abilities you pick from a list that give you a passive benefit, but you can cash them in for a big flashy ability". (Exemplars, Runesmiths, Kineticists, Solarians...)

I could see things like "a shapeshifting body-changing martial", with subclasses ranging from a Shifter-like Nature theme to a Nanocyte-like technology theme. You'd have forms that give passive abilities (senses, speeds, etc) and unarmed attacks, or can be cashed in for a big flashy temporary full-body transformation. (Yeah, I know that's basically The Evolutionist, but after the Thaumaturge and Animist, I think they like changing names away from a 1e class to avoid comparisons)

Or maybe something that plays into the imagery of wormholes, portals, and teleportation. Some kind of class that puts down two "portals" on the map that can be upgraded in various ways- this feat lets you step between them, this feat lets you use them to move enemies, this feat lets you use them to redirect attacks, etc. Something between the customizable Quantum Field of a Witchwarper and the "place crap on the battlefield" gameplay of the Mechanic & Necromancer.

[Zoken44]

I love the idea of a teleporter class. However, I had three different concepts of a teleporter that I tried to jam into one concept (teleport self, teleport others, thinking with Portals)

But if we boil it down to just Portals, that does allow for a much more coherent class. you can even call them "Drifters" since theoretically this would work by shunting things through the Drift, and it has the connotation of someone not staying in one place long.

I would also add in to a thinking with portals build that You can essentially slash with them as a special attack.

What about a spontaneous primal caster, who gains some sort of buff or rider ability from the planet they are on, like a purely primal Sorcerer, but instead of bloodline, it's a shifting ability based on the celestial body they are currently closest too, including a "Void" body if they want to attune to empty space.

[Perpdepog]

Zoken44 wrote:

I love the idea of a teleporter class. However, I had three different concepts of a teleporter that I tried to jam into one concept (teleport self, teleport others, thinking with Portals)

But if we boil it down to just Portals, that does allow for a much more coherent class. you can even call them "Drifters" since theoretically this would work by shunting things through the Drift, and it has the connotation of someone not staying in one place long.

I would also add in to a thinking with portals build that You can essentially slash with them as a special attack.

What about a spontaneous primal caster, who gains some sort of buff or rider ability from the planet they are on, like a purely primal Sorcerer, but instead of bloodline, it's a shifting ability based on the celestial body they are currently closest too, including a "Void" body if they want to attune to empty space.

Sounds more like an archetype than a full class to me. It'd basically be the geomancer archetype with a sci fi coat of paint. I think that'd be cool but I'm not so sure you'd be able to build an entire class around it.

A few rough ideas I could see taking shape as classes are things like,
*A teleportation-focused class, as previously mentioned.
*A class which creates terrain or otherwise manipulates the battlefield, laying down zones of damage, difficult terrain, zones of healing or buffing and the like. Essentially the turret mechanic, but with even more of a focus on battlefield control.
*A class who pilots a suit of power armor or some other form of smaller-scale mech. This could be one way to go if making more general power armor rules turns out to be too difficult to balance or too wordy; restrict it to a singular class and let them go full warmachine, with different modules they can install into and swap out of their armor based on need. Perhaps acting a bit like a commander's tactics in that you have a few that grow as you level, and big, flashy abilities that take them offline for a round or so.

[kaid]

Perpdepog wrote:

Zoken44 wrote:

I love the idea of a teleporter class. However, I had three different concepts of a teleporter that I tried to jam into one concept (teleport self, teleport others, thinking with Portals)

But if we boil it down to just Portals, that does allow for a much more coherent class. you can even call them "Drifters" since theoretically this would work by shunting things through the Drift, and it has the connotation of someone not staying in one place long.

I would also add in to a thinking with portals build that You can essentially slash with them as a special attack.

What about a spontaneous primal caster, who gains some sort of buff or rider ability from the planet they are on, like a purely primal Sorcerer, but instead of bloodline, it's a shifting ability based on the celestial body they are currently closest too, including a "Void" body if they want to attune to empty space.

Sounds more like an archetype than a full class to me. It'd basically be the geomancer archetype with a sci fi coat of paint. I think that'd be cool but I'm not so sure you'd be able to build an entire class around it.

A few rough ideas I could see taking shape as classes are things like,
*A teleportation-focused class, as previously mentioned.
*A class which creates terrain or otherwise manipulates the battlefield, laying down zones of damage, difficult terrain, zones of healing or buffing and the like. Essentially the turret mechanic, but with even more of a focus on battlefield control.
*A class who pilots a suit of power armor or some other form of smaller-scale mech. This could be one way to go if making more general power armor rules turns out to be too difficult to balance or too wordy; restrict it to a singular class and let them go full warmachine, with different modules they can install into and swap out of their armor based on need. Perhaps acting a bit like a commander's tactics in that you have a few that grow as you level, and...

I think the last one some kind of power armor focused character is probably a good choice for a more tech oriented character. Still I could also see it having bioorganic/necrotech/magic tech options. Some kind of high tech death knight in his necroskeletal armor could be pretty crazy and very starfinder.

[oimandibloons]

Zoken44 wrote:

Things I would want in my fantasized "Pathfinder Stuff in Starfinder" book.

I'd suggest that there be some chassis-level changes for PF2 mages such that they at least have light armour, and maybe also give them the long range spellshapes, because a +30 ft range increase might not be enough.

For the martials, most would need some feats that can inflict suppressed in some manner, and certain classes *may* want specific changes to the baseline and certain feats. I can think of Alchemists getting a range increase for their bombs (edit: maybe a special alchemist needle gun that delivers bombs), Guardians getting the resistance against energy damage from weapons and thus the ability to intercept said damage, Champions *maybe* loosening the restrictions of the defensive causes such that you can subtract damage for their allies without needing enemies being in there. Gunslingers getting to use their reloads to compress other one action activities like activating sights and boosts. Monks might either want a blanket adjustment to have every unarmoured-requiring feat be updated to require either being unarmoured or having light armour, such that they can have flight suits that are on par with everyone else's. Summoners in space get *weird* when it comes to whether eidolons need ranged strikes and flight.

A lot of PF2 focus spells also have a very short range which will pose difficulties when it comes to long-range engagements.

[Zoken44]

Perpdepog wrote:

Sounds more like an archetype than a full class to me. It'd basically be the geomancer archetype with a sci fi coat of paint. I think that'd be cool but I'm not so sure you'd be able to build an entire class around it.

A few rough ideas I could see taking shape as classes are things like,
*A teleportation-focused class, as previously mentioned.
*A class which creates terrain or otherwise manipulates the battlefield, laying down zones of damage, difficult terrain, zones of healing or buffing and the like. Essentially the turret mechanic, but with even more of a focus on battlefield control.
*A class who pilots a suit of power armor or some other form of smaller-scale mech. This could be one way to go if making more general power armor rules turns out to be too difficult to balance or too wordy; restrict it to a singular class and let them go full warmachine, with different modules they can install into and swap out of their armor based on need. Perhaps acting a bit like a commander's tactics in that you have a few that grow as you level, and...

normally I hate being told "sounds more like an Archetype" but in this case I can't be mad, because you're absolutely right.

The class creating terrain and hazards manipulating the battle field, if you can figure out a way to differentiate that from the Witchwarper, I have a sci-fi name for it: The Terraformer. I've had this idea too, but it was pointed out to me how similar it is to the Witchwarper.

In the spirit of Rename/replacements especially to distance them from other classes: the Medic. Somewhere between a Ripperdoc from Cyberpunk and the biohacker. you specialize in non-magical medicine. You gain the Battle Medicine Feat automatically, and an ability to essentially "reset it", kind of like the Magus' spell strike. This would replace the old biohacker, who was essentially all about creating injectables and non-magic healing, which is kind of the purview of the Chirugeon alchemist. You would also gain a form of precision damage, that effects bleed damage. Suclasses would be specialites including Pharmacology, Cybernetics, Homeopathy, and Physical Therapy. Each giving a unique way to recharge battle medicine

[Perpdepog]

Zoken44 wrote:

The class creating terrain and hazards manipulating the battle field, if you can figure out a way to differentiate that from the Witchwarper, I have a sci-fi name for it: The Terraformer. I've had this idea too, but it was pointed out to me how similar it is to the Witchwarper.

On a first think I'd say its main differences would be that it runs on a martial chassis, so it can more easily mix it up in melee, perhaps gaining a damage steroid when in one of their terraformed zones. I think that it would also be able to create multiple zones, not just one like the witchwarper is doing most of the time, and because of this would likely not move them as much. I also see the class being able to affect more physical changes to the battlefield, creating cover, pits, simple shapes like ramps and so on, relatively easily, though you'd need to take care to not accidentally give them the ability to stick all their enemies inside of boxes; that doesn't lead to interesting gameplay.

Having multiple terraformed zones could also open up some other tactical options they could utilize, like teleporting themselves or an ally across a zone, or eventually from one zone to another, or doing the same to enemies with some manner of save.

[Driftbourne]

I ran a game recently where a Witchwarper making difficult terrain, and a soldier using suppressive fire reduced a creatures movment to 5 feet per action. It was burtile.

I came up with a fun trick in that game. The soldier's area fire killed the creature right before its turn, so I kept the creature alive long enough to take its turn and had it charge the soldier. The suppressed condition kept the creature from reaching the soldier, and that's when I had it die.

[moosher12]

I'm reading Tech Revolution.

When Paizo finally releases powered armor, I hope the Infiltration Skin comes soon. I want to play a kobold in an Infiltration Skin disguised as a Medium-sized dragonkin.

[Driftbourne]

I'm hoping for spherical power armor for Novians, with the Novian being the power source, to make a miniature Dysion's sphere. Another option would be making a Novian becoming a Dysion's sphere into an Evolunist niche.

[moosher12]

Earlier, I said I wanted to see a custom vehicle system. I didn't know 1E had one until reading Tech Revolution, I definitely hope we get a custom vehicle builder one day.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Rotfell wrote:

Kingmaker 2e made the same with its kingdom, including granting feats for customization.

By that do you mean a 2e remaster of Horizons of the Vast, or something completely new?

For some reason I never got the vibe that HotV reached the same popularity that's made Kingmaker so evergreen for Pathfinder, but I'm not sure if that's because Starfinder has always kind of lagged behind in popularity or because other APs resonated with the fans more strongly, like Fly Free or Die, Against the Aeon Throne or Dead Suns.

[kaid]

Driftbourne wrote:

I'm hoping for spherical power armor for Novians, with the Novian being the power source, to make a miniature Dysion's sphere. Another option would be making a Novian becoming a Dysion's sphere into an Evolunist niche.

Barathu in power armor for when you want to RP one of the killer robot things from the matrix haha.

[Dargoth876]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Rotfell wrote:

Kingmaker 2e made the same with its kingdom, including granting feats for customization.

By that do you mean a 2e remaster of Horizons of the Vast, or something completely new?

For some reason I never got the vibe that HotV reached the same popularity that's made Kingmaker so evergreen for Pathfinder, but I'm not sure if that's because Starfinder has always kind of lagged behind in popularity or because other APs resonated with the fans more strongly, like Fly Free or Die, Against the Aeon Throne or Dead Suns.

Ouch.

It is not the same vibe, but space colonisation has always been a common trope. I don't know if there's a lot of difference between PF1 and PF2 Kingmaker, I love HotV even though the colonisation system was incomplete. I see the gap (and the Gap) between HotV and PF2 Kingmaker and would really live a version for SF2.

[moosher12]

Huh, so I recently made it to Interstellar Species. I honestly never would have expected Evolutionist to be the augmented cyborg class by the name. I expected evolutionist to be more of a shifter than a cyborg with a science fantasy approach to augmentation. So I suppose the answer to most cyborg archetype requests would be the Evolutionist class or archetype. Though all honesty, I could see evolutionist going the way of the nanocyte and becoming either an archetype, or a range of archetypes for each implant type (Magitech, Cybernetics, Necrografts, and Biotech)

Not really related, guess that makes both Evolutionist and Vanguard for classes with misleading names. Like Vanguard, if Evolutionist comes back, I hope it gets a more evocative name.

[Dracomicron]

moosher12 wrote:

Huh, so I recently made it to Interstellar Species. I honestly never would have expected Evolutionist to be the augmented cyborg class by the name. I expected evolutionist to be more of a shifter than a cyborg with a science fantasy approach to augmentation. So I suppose the answer to most cyborg archetype requests would be the Evolutionist class or archetype. Though all honesty, I could see evolutionist going the way of the nanocyte and becoming either an archetype, or a range of archetypes for each implant type (Magitech, Cybernetics, Necrografts, and Biotech)

Not really related, guess that makes both Evolutionist and Vanguard for classes with misleading names. Like Vanguard, if Evolutionist comes back, I hope it gets a more evocative name.

Evolutionist was a class I was very excited for, that playtested very poorly for me, and ended up not being materially improved for me in the release version, unfortunately.

I thought that it should be built around an evolved "battle form," perhaps like the shifter but actually more like the customized apocalyptic forms of demons from Demon: The Fallen.

If Evolutionist comes back, it needs a long, hard look at its themes and ideas about power costs, because everything the 1e class did was handled better by the vanguard, solarian, AND nanocyte, without the drawbacks for not managing your mutation points or whatever they were called.

[Driftbourne]

Dracomicron wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Huh, so I recently made it to Interstellar Species. I honestly never would have expected Evolutionist to be the augmented cyborg class by the name. I expected evolutionist to be more of a shifter than a cyborg with a science fantasy approach to augmentation. So I suppose the answer to most cyborg archetype requests would be the Evolutionist class or archetype. Though all honesty, I could see evolutionist going the way of the nanocyte and becoming either an archetype, or a range of archetypes for each implant type (Magitech, Cybernetics, Necrografts, and Biotech)

Not really related, guess that makes both Evolutionist and Vanguard for classes with misleading names. Like Vanguard, if Evolutionist comes back, I hope it gets a more evocative name.

Evolutionist was a class I was very excited for, that playtested very poorly for me, and ended up not being materially improved for me in the release version, unfortunately.

I thought that it should be built around an evolved "battle form," perhaps like the shifter but actually more like the customized apocalyptic forms of demons from Demon: The Fallen.

If Evolutionist comes back, it needs a long, hard look at its themes and ideas about power costs, because everything the 1e class did was handled better by the vanguard, solarian, AND nanocyte, without the drawbacks for not managing your mutation points or whatever they were called.

My Evolutionist played really well with both mutation points and their drawback, but I'm not sure if that can be done as well with all the niches. The Evolutionist was my favorite class, although it can be a really hard class to find a good working concept for. I'm courious ot see what the SF2e Evolutionist will be like if they bring it back.

[BotBrain]

WRT to new classes, I've been pondering it since we're probably gonna see a SF2e playtest soonish. (Pure speculation, don't ask for a source).

I've really wracked my brain for this one because it's actually pretty hard to find roles I want to fill that one of the classes we know of don't.

The best I can come up with is some kind of mech class that I'd imagine would play a bit like synthesis summoner. Otherwise a lot of it is covered, evolutionist is exerting a lot of hypothetical pressure if we assume it is going to show up at some point. I had an idea for a class that modifies themselves with weapons but I can see evolutionist doing that.

[Squark]

One thing I'd really like to see is higher level adventures. There's some folks who are going unserved and they are really loud.

[TheTownsend]

New classes are especially tricky because the compatability means they'll want something narratively and mechanically distinct from both the extant SF classes AND everything in Pathfinder.

Like, would they bother with what amounts to a more sci-fi themed Psychic when you could just play the one from Dark Archive? Even though something structured more like a Kineticist might ring truer to the genre?

First pitch I can think up: Somewhere between Technomancer and Witch/Cleric/Animist, to harken to the origins of the setting, some piece of tech or code on your person is just a step or two twards being an Iron God, and through your partnership with it you can channel this not-quite divine might. Really center on the "God in my pocket" flavor for an almost Summoner-like roleplay duality.

Or! Terraformer. You've become entwined with the upswell of primal energy that comes from technologically bringing life to a dead world, such that the space around you bursts with life even in the most barren environs. Very battlefield control focussed primal caster. Could just be a Mystic subclass, but I think there's a space for it.

[Zoken44]

I've thought of the Terraformer, but gotten told it was a Witchwarper subclass or class-archetype

I've suggested before maybe something like the "Networker" emphasizing the interconnectedness of the future. There's the party, but they also have an entire network backing them up, supplying information. I dunno.

[Driftbourne]

A Witchwarper only temporarily affects the area within their quantum field. I see a true Terraformer causing lasting changes, although I imagine that a lot of large-scale terraforming would be done with rituals and downtime activities.

[moosher12]

Dracomicron wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Huh, so I recently made it to Interstellar Species. I honestly never would have expected Evolutionist to be the augmented cyborg class by the name. I expected evolutionist to be more of a shifter than a cyborg with a science fantasy approach to augmentation. So I suppose the answer to most cyborg archetype requests would be the Evolutionist class or archetype. Though all honesty, I could see evolutionist going the way of the nanocyte and becoming either an archetype, or a range of archetypes for each implant type (Magitech, Cybernetics, Necrografts, and Biotech)

Not really related, guess that makes both Evolutionist and Vanguard for classes with misleading names. Like Vanguard, if Evolutionist comes back, I hope it gets a more evocative name.

Evolutionist was a class I was very excited for, that playtested very poorly for me, and ended up not being materially improved for me in the release version, unfortunately.

I thought that it should be built around an evolved "battle form," perhaps like the shifter but actually more like the customized apocalyptic forms of demons from Demon: The Fallen.

If Evolutionist comes back, it needs a long, hard look at its themes and ideas about power costs, because everything the 1e class did was handled better by the vanguard, solarian, AND nanocyte, without the drawbacks for not managing your mutation points or whatever they were called.

I sort of agree. When I hear evolutionist, I think what shifter granted. Granted, I do like what the Evolutionist does. It just doesn't feel like it should be called an Evolutionist if that's what it's gonna do. Maybe an Augmented, or something like that. Either way, for the 2E system, it means I would like to see both Shifter come back as what the Evolutionist sounds like by name as a battle form class, and Evolutionist to come back by another name as a borg-out class.

[moosher12]

BotBrain wrote:

WRT to new classes, I've been pondering it since we're probably gonna see a SF2e playtest soonish. (Pure speculation, don't ask for a source).

I've really wracked my brain for this one because it's actually pretty hard to find roles I want to fill that one of the classes we know of don't.

The best I can come up with is some kind of mech class that I'd imagine would play a bit like synthesis summoner. Otherwise a lot of it is covered, evolutionist is exerting a lot of hypothetical pressure if we assume it is going to show up at some point. I had an idea for a class that modifies themselves with weapons but I can see evolutionist doing that.

Pathfinder and Starfinder have filled so many roles so far, that if Starfinder is not exploring legacy classes, I am genuinely at a loss as to what they could be cooking for 2027. Best I can think of is maybe something Super Sentai style. (As while it exists as an archetype in Pathfinder, I can see Starfinder making a proper class out of it).

Several months ago I brought up a stuntsman to do stuff like ride a skateboard, but sounds like Daredevil is filling a similar niche.

[Perpdepog]

I'd be super down for a Super Sentai-style class, just on general principle. I could see it getting fun mech-facing feats and such once mech rules come to Sf2, which is cool to think about.

Honestly I suspect that the new concepts they make classes for are going to be something pretty specific to Starfinder's setting. I don't know what they'd be, but that seems like a way to try building out new classes that don't so overtly touch on niches already explored; just make the niche up by tying it to the setting. I'm thinking of something like a beefy archetype, like PF2's Red Mantis Assassin, tooled up into becoming a full class. A fairly narrow niche, just broad enough for multiple feats at each level, and heavily tied to the setting.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

BotBrain wrote:

WRT to new classes, I've been pondering it since we're probably gonna see a SF2e playtest soonish. (Pure speculation, don't ask for a source).

I've really wracked my brain for this one because it's actually pretty hard to find roles I want to fill that one of the classes we know of don't.

The best I can come up with is some kind of mech class that I'd imagine would play a bit like synthesis summoner. Otherwise a lot of it is covered, evolutionist is exerting a lot of hypothetical pressure if we assume it is going to show up at some point. I had an idea for a class that modifies themselves with weapons but I can see evolutionist doing that.

Pathfinder and Starfinder have filled so many roles so far, that if Starfinder is not exploring legacy classes, I am genuinely at a loss as to what they could be cooking for 2027. Best I can think of is maybe something Super Sentai style. (As while it exists as an archetype in Pathfinder, I can see Starfinder making a proper class out of it).

Several months ago I brought up a stuntsman to do stuff like ride a skateboard, but sounds like Daredevil is filling a similar niche.

I'm curious too what they will come up with. I wouldn't mind a science-based class, or a class based on some strange alien Starinfer lore.

I feel that Daredevil fits into Starfinder better than Pathfinder; it's a great class for any of the Zo! Media adventures, or live-streaming adventures on your own.

[Zoken44]

Just a thought, weren't there a few archetypes PreMaster in PF2e that relied on an audience, like the Gladiator, that if, in SF2e, you had a camera drone live streaming you would actually be useful.