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Do they just lay them and leave their young to their own devices like sea turtles do?
Do they lay the eggs and incubate them by sitting or laying on them and then raise them when they hatch like birds do?
If dragons incubate and raise their offspring, do you think a female dragon would notice if there was an extra, smaller egg (say a kobold egg made its way into the clutch somehow) in her clutch or would she just care about protecting them in whatever way was necessary and raise whatever hatched?
I'm guessing the kobold would hatch first, assuming the female dragon didn't just destroy the smaller egg as soon as she noticed it in her clutch, and I'd also guess said dragon would treat the kobold differently (probably by eating it), but let's suppose a rather inquisitive dragon did not destroy the egg and did not devour her newly hatched kobold. Let's say she didn't do that because she wanted perform an experiment to see how a dragon-hatched (you know, with all those draconic/magical energies a dragon has going on all about her) kobold would turn out compared to how a normally hatched one would?
I guess it would clearly depend on the particular dragon and how they prideful versus how curious they were, right?
But if female dragons just laid eggs and left them alone, I'm thinking a kobold wouldn't have much of a chance to survive very long amongst their draconic clutch mates.
What do you think about female dragons and their clutches?
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Considering they do seem to have a fair few elements of continuous culture, I think dragons probably do generally keep their eggs close, and probably their young hatchlings as well (maybe dragons can start hearing things while they're still in the shell, like in Temeraire). But the main thing to remember is that dragons are sapient people, if generally very large and predatory ones, so the primary factor in how a dragon parent will treat their clutch, or any unusual eggs that slip in, is going to be that dragon's specific personality.
Some dragons who don't want to look after eggs but find themselves with a clutch might scatter them around in reasonably suitable locations, so people might have to deal with surprise wyrmlings, others might be more inclined to actual childcare, and it wouldn't surprise me to find a dragon who actually quite likes having adopted children running around!
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I don't think there's a canon explanation, but I would expect it to vary by dragon type. Some are probably more caring parents than others, though when you're a giant flying reptile I doubt your sex is all that important after the eggs are already laid. A father can sit on a nest just as impatiently as a mother can. But I do think it's important that, although dragons are intelligent, they are not human and should feel like it. These things are massive, can live for centuries (perhaps indefinitely barring accident or incident) and have a perspective on the world that should feel utterly alien to us. We might be able to speak their language crudely, some of them may walk among us in humanoid guise, but we can't possibly know what it's like to truly be one, and vice versa.
As a headcanon answer, I like to think that the reason why dragons collect treasure (which they could never reasonably spend, and thus have no rational reason to value) is because it's a demonstration to prospective mates that they are worth the time and effort, that they can hunt and take on even serious adventurers and that they've been doing it long enough and successfully enough to prove their mettle, but long term mated pairs are rare, and after the eggs hatch whichever dragon parent elected to care for them does so just long enough to teach them draconic, how to hunt and fly (around 16 years, until they could as Young Dragons) and then kick them out of the nest. Not a lot of persistent maternal or paternal sentiment there, and they find the "little mammalians'" concept of it curious and strange. After they've reached a certain size, a child is just another competitor for resources, and I expect the same is true in reverse - siblings are competitors who need to be driven out of territory once it's established, while parents become just another potential predator. The reason why dragons aren't more common is because they tend to thin their own numbers. It comes across as brutal and uncaring to shorter-lived humanoids, but those dragons who bother to explain themselves accept it as part of the natural cycle - and remind humans, elves, dwarves, etc. that they should be very grateful that there aren't more of their kind, considering what their favourite prey tends to be.
As for kobolds, if one is unfortunate enough to find its way into the nest I feel sorry for that young kobold. If it isn't quickly eaten by one of the newly-hatched wyrmlings, it might survive if the dragon was curious, or wanted to raise an emissary to spread word of its magnificence among local kobold tribes, but I can't see most dragons having the patience for that except in exceptional circumstances.
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As for kobolds, if one is unfortunate enough to find its way into the nest I feel sorry for that young kobold. If it isn't quickly eaten by one of the newly-hatched wyrmlings, it might survive if the dragon was curious, or wanted to raise an emissary to spread word of its magnificence among local kobold tribes, but I can't see most dragons having the patience for that except in exceptional circumstances.
Valashinaz, I expect, is one of those exceptions. I'm guessing she's had several kobold "stewards" throughout her long life.
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The kobold egg situation seems absurd without the dragon's approval. Sneaking in, getting the caretaker to ignore such a tiny egg, and then the baby thriving among hungry rivals while inside a mature dragon's lair? No.
And yeah, there are dozens of dragon species with even more temperaments and natures, so there's no answer to this question other than they treat enough of their eggs well enough that some survive to lay more eggs. With well-enough ranging from abandoning after destroying whichever eggs look inferior to nourishing and mentoring so their offspring reach their full potential. Some might even sneak their eggs into other nests, not necessarily those of intelligent dragons, but maybe a Roc's where it can eat the nurturer's eggs upon birth.
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I may not be correct as I do not have a REMASTERED copy of Monster Core, and would love to hear if there are any significant changes to the lore. That stated Monster Core pg 210 sidebar
Magically Morphic
Kobold eggs can absorb the traits of more powerful creatures, and cunning kobold parents take full advantage of this to give their children the best shot at life. Dragons are the favored target for this process, a habit dragons seem willing to indulge, but many kobolds find themselves with different patrons by choice or by force. Fiends, elementals, or fey prove effective as alternate choices. Some kobolds use ancient artifacts instead, though this has the issue of attracting thieves. Kobolds in the Darklands usually seek out subterranean dragons, but those who absorb the ambient energy instead emerge with warped forms and terrifying psychic abilities.
I assume every dragon has a kobold infestation problem. Different dragons deal with this differently. Some see the kobolds as an extra snacks running around, others as an effective cleaning crew that will scrub the floors, sort the treasure, and remove pesky plate mail from between its teeth, and yet others let themselves be pampered and worshiped as living gods by these small but useful subjects.
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The fact that the default is for dragons to indulge kobolds marks an interesting relationship. Maybe they're like cats are to humans? Cute, and like a wyrmling.
"If you let them hatch nearby they'll pick up the cutest little traits, like a squeak of a breath weapon or even nubby wings."
"How adorbs! I gotta get me a tribe. It'll help with the rodents too."
Thread reminds me I once thought of ways to get half-dragons that don't depend on the dragon-daddy thing, which seems to be the default assumption, and the idea of female dragons leaving their eggs unguarded for a few hours at the time does provide some opportunities.
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Magically MorphicKobold eggs can absorb the traits of more powerful creatures, and cunning kobold parents take full advantage of this to give their children the best shot at life. Dragons are the favored target for this process, a habit dragons seem willing to indulge, but many kobolds find themselves with different patrons by choice or by force. Fiends, elementals, or fey prove effective as alternate choices. Some kobolds use ancient artifacts instead, though this has the issue of attracting thieves. Kobolds in the Darklands usually seek out subterranean dragons, but those who absorb the ambient energy instead emerge with warped forms and terrifying psychic abilities.
This is the kind of thing I had in mind and, IMO, super interesting.
Thanks!
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Now I'm imagining a draconic "crazy old cat lady" except kobolds, caves teeming with kobolds (and their detritus), maybe the dragon dresses them up in silly outfits, teaches them tricks, and pampers them in ways they find discomforting.
"BIG HUG"
"Ow, ow, ow!"
Oh my, now I'm thinking of Of Mice & Men...
I think there's also a big separation between say chromatic and metallic dragons.
And another thing that factors in (that I'm not sure we know much about) is how many eggs do dragons typically lay?
In general (but not an absolute rule by far) is that creatures that have many young, tend to be less involved with them. And creatures with fewer young tend to take more care of them.
It's different evolutionary strategies, one of "if I have enough of them, some of them statistically will survive to adult hood". I think chromatic dragons might fall into this category.
While metallic dragons might achieve success by investing a lot into a single egg/child and being heavily involved.
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It's different evolutionary strategies, one of "if I have enough of them, some of them statistically will survive to adult hood". I think chromatic dragons might fall into this category.
While metallic dragons might achieve success by investing a lot into a single egg/child and being heavily involved.
How about Imperial dragons?
Valashinaz is an underworld dragon that I hinted at in my OP.
In case you don't know, Valashinaz is, in PF1 terms, a Lawful Neutral dragon who is working with the PFS to exchange certain bits of knowledge.
So not good, not evil, not a chromatic dragon, nor a metallic dragon.
I am not very familiar with Tian Xia (specifically Hwanggot) culture to even begin to speculate how such a dragon might treat her eggs/young.
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For reasons I'm not quite sure of, Imperial Dragons strike me as "very human".
So I imagine Imperial Dragons treating their young, in the gamut of ways that human beings do, both good and bad, depending on the individual dragon's personality.
I think there's also a big separation between say chromatic and metallic dragons.
And another thing that factors in (that I'm not sure we know much about) is how many eggs do dragons typically lay?
In general (but not an absolute rule by far) is that creatures that have many young, tend to be less involved with them. And creatures with fewer young tend to take more care of them.
It's different evolutionary strategies, one of "if I have enough of them, some of them statistically will survive to adult hood". I think chromatic dragons might fall into this category.
While metallic dragons might achieve success by investing a lot into a single egg/child and being heavily involved.
For number vs care, there are difference between large hive types and smaller clutch types, and smaller clutches can vary a lot.
chromatic and metallic dragonsWhat and what?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
VERY sarcastic as Paizo is phasing out "chromatic" and "metallic" dragons.chromatic and metallic dragonsWhat and what?I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
I'm aware of that, but the phase out is more they don't want to tell story involving those kinds of dragons due to legacy D&D WOTC issues.
But they will continue to exist (in PF2) because we already have rules for them.
Just because the company isn't going to write stories involving those kinds of dragons anymore (due to intellectual property), doesn't really mean much to me.
VERY sarcastic as Paizo is phasing out "chromatic" and "metallic" dragons.chromatic and metallic dragonsWhat and what?I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
I caught your vibe. :-)
The individuals with specific stats or names will remain in Golarion, but yeah, as generic stats & types, they'll be replaced by newer species. Of course all of it remains available for personal use, and it's a matter of no longer being published about more than being erased from the setting (like much of the non-Drow 3.x material, Drows having been specifically retconned out).
Yeah, the dragons are different from what's happening to Drow.
Drow have been replaced in the lore, they never "existed" within the setting.
Chromatic and metallic dragons still exist, but Paizo is avoiding their use anymore for IP reasons.
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Yeah, the dragons are different from what's happening to Drow.
Drow have been replaced in the lore, they never "existed" within the setting.
Chromatic and metallic dragons still exist, but Paizo is avoiding their use anymore for IP reasons.
The grouping by color vs metal might not make sense anymore though. I feel it would be too close to that other IP.
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As for kobolds, if one is unfortunate enough to find its way into the nest I feel sorry for that young kobold. If it isn't quickly eaten by one of the newly-hatched wyrmlings, it might survive if the dragon was curious, or wanted to raise an emissary to spread word of its magnificence among local kobold tribes, but I can't see most dragons having the patience for that except in exceptional circumstances.Valashinaz, I expect, is one of those exceptions. I'm guessing she's had several kobold "stewards" throughout her long life.
Maybe Valashinaz, as an egg, was actually deposited on a Kobold tribe's doorstep. And adopted.