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About 6 years ago, Pathfinder Friday #25 had Erik Mona on as a guest and the topic of their talk was the Starstone.
According to Erik, completing the Test of the Starstone made your character a Demigod which he called a "living god."
For the last several years I must say I never heard that ANY of the folks who completed the task successfully were ever referred to as a "Demigod."
It seemed like they all ascended directly to being a full deity.
Now some were more powerful than others. I believe it is generally acknowledged that Cayden Cailean is a "lesser" god while Aroden and Iomedae were something more (greater gods?). I don't know what Norgorber would be. I don't think I ever read him as being considered either lesser or greater.
Maybe they all started off as Demigods and eventually ascended to true deities? If so, I've never seen anything in Golarion lore that specifically said as such.
I guess my question is what is the canon on what you are after completing the Test of the Starstone today?
Has this intermediate demigod "step" been retconned out?
If so, that would seem to indicate a direct ascension to at least lesser god status with the possibility of ascending to greater status by some unspecified mechanic or event happening.
Thanks.
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Some of this is covered in the recent Curtain Call AP. Recommend giving it a read.
That said: it is left intentionally vague so that different writers can play in the sandbox and innovate as opportunity allows.
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Well, part of it is that the Starstone does not give everyone equal power. There are people who "pass" the test by certain definitions and don't gain any divinity at- they just make it out alive, generally with some sort of reward.
The answer for players is generally "you get mythic" because that's something that allows continuing to play within the rules for a while.
Aroden is certainly described as doing things as a god immediately after passing the test of the Starstone, but he also spent about four centuries being a very local sort of god. Fighting battles himself, having sword-mages accompanying him, and all that jazz- in rules terms, that would probably be high-level mythic instead of full-fledged deity.
I think one of the big differences is just that PF2 is no longer inheriting 3.5 D&D's hierarchy of demigods, quasi-deities, etc. where a certain number of domains meant certain things about how much of a deity something must be.
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Yeah, think of the "Test of the Starstone" less as something that is just pass/fail and something that is graded based on how it goes.
There are some who take the Test of the Starstone and walk away with their lives and nothing more, there are some who take the Test of the Starstone and walk away with fabulous riches but no divine power, there are some who take the Test of the Starstone who walk away with partial divinity, and those who ace the Test of the Starstone get full on divinity. There may be other, stranger, outcomes possible too.
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As far as I know and from what I've seen in the lore, ONLY four people have taken and passed the Test of the Starstone.
Aroden, Norgorber, Cayden Cailean, and Iomedae.
Sure, more people have attempted to take the test and failed and fewer people have actually taken the test. They all (except for the four people I mentioned earlier) failed...and died.
As far as I know, NOBODY has escaped alive from the Cathedral unless they passed the Test.
This so-called "various degrees of success that give various degrees of power" concept is completely heretical and non-canon as far as I'm concerned.
Now if James or Erik wish to correct me, I'd sure be grateful for such correction.
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As far as I know and from what I've seen in the lore, ONLY four people have taken and passed the Test of the Starstone.
Aroden, Norgorber, Cayden Cailean, and Iomedae.
Sure, more people have attempted to take the test and failed and fewer people have actually taken the test. They all (except for the four people I mentioned earlier) failed...and died.
As far as I know, NOBODY has escaped alive from the Cathedral unless they passed the Test.
This so-called "various degrees of success that give various degrees of power" concept is completely heretical and non-canon as far as I'm concerned.
Now if James or Erik wish to correct me, I'd sure be grateful for such correction.
"Those few who pass are granted godhood, while those who fail usually die, although a select few manage to escape, occasionally with great wealth, but no divinity."
From the wiki, from the campaign setting book. But it's true that only four have passed, and they all became gods.
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IIRC, from Mythic Origins maybe, passing the Test of the Starstone is a Mythic challenge and thus makes you Mythic if you were not already.
You also suddenly appear on the radar of deities, which is extremely likely to garner their interest, start some discussion with/about you and might end up in you becoming a full deity then and there.
This is based on my pre-Curtain Call knowledge, since I have not read it. So maybe all of this has been updated.
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There's an ambiguity in what we call "The Test of the Starstone" since it could refer to "what happens when you touch the rock" or it could refer to "what happens once you attempt to cross the chasm and attempt the dungeon with the intention of touching the rock."
The truly mysterious portion of the experience is "what happens when you touch the rock" but the rest is fairly understandable. You have to cross a bottomless pit with a novel method and get into a cathedral with no doors. Then you have to go through the most deadly dungeon Aroden could devise. I imagine you are free to leave at any point during the dungeon part (it's just the Cathedral of the Starstone won't let you back in if you leave).
Once you get to the rock and you clear away the skeletons, a few things can happen:
- You look at all the skeletons and decide not to touch the rock.
- You touch the rock and join the ranks of the skeletons adding ambiance to the room.
- You touch the rock and become a god.
- You touch the rock and you somehow let go before you become either a skeleton or a god.
I imagine if you were in the room to watch the last part from the outside it would look mostly like the classic SF/F "it's too much power/super-power meltdown" sequence where their eyes and face start to glow and their concerned onlookers want them to stop for their own safety.
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Once you get to the rock and you clear away the skeletons, a few things can happen:
- You look at all the skeletons and decide not to touch the rock.
- You touch the rock and join the ranks of the skeletons adding ambiance to the room.
- You touch the rock and become a god.
- You touch the rock and you somehow let go before you become either a skeleton or a god.
Touching the Starstone actually starts the test of your character (as opposed to the first part (a dungeon-like experience) that tests your character sheet).
The second part (and true test of the Starstone itself) is a phantasmagoric experience that happens all in your head. It's spiritual/roleplaying experience, really.
It sounds like your character is presented with choices to test his or her morality/immorality among other things.
If you're a Hellknight taking that part of the Test, you'd better be Lawful, Emotionless, etc. Basically, know and follow the Measure and the Chain.
If you're an Iomedaen, know Iomedae's values and it would probably help to know what her 11 Acts were and if presented with a situation that is analogous to one of her Acts, be prepared to act in a similar fashion.
For example, if your character is presented with an opportunity to use diplomacy instead of the sword, be ready to do it as Iomedae did in her 2nd Act.
For sure, always act honorably, lawfully, and with courage.
If the Starstone decides your "character" (as opposed to your "character sheet") is in line with the values for which you purport to stand, you should be able to pass.
BTW. There are FOUR parts to the Test.
1. Cross the chasm to get to the cathedral.
2. Get past the Guardian of the cathedral who is likely to be at the entrance. You don't have to fight it. You might be able to trick your way past it or maybe even use Diplomacy to convince it to let you pass.
3. Go through a typical dungeon-like experience. This is the part that tests your character sheet. If you're a Rogue, there will be traps. If you're a Cleric, you might have to clear some undead (or raise some undead). If you're a Fighter, you'll definitely have to kill stuff.
4. After you get past the "dungeon" part, your last step is to go into the chamber of the Starstone, touch it, and take its Test.
Do and pass all that, and you're a ??? (Mythic character, Quasi-deity, Demigod, Lesser deity, or Greater deity)
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"Those few who pass are granted godhood, while those who fail usually die, although a select few manage to escape, occasionally with great wealth, but no divinity."
I suppose it would be possible to go through three of the four parts (looting all the bodies along the way) and then get into the chamber of the Starstone. I'm sure there would be almost untold wealth in that chamber from all the previous test takers who failed the fourth part of the Test.
Loot all those bodies and then try to make it back out alive. I'm guessing the "dungeon" (third part of the test) will have "reset" so you couldn't just walk out past all the stuff you did on the way to the chamber of the Starstone.
So yeah, I guess you might think of the point up to where you could touch the Starstone as an extremely dangerous "loot run."
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Some of this is covered in the recent Curtain Call AP. Recommend giving it a read.
Can you please be more specific? Which book?
I don't play PF2 so I don't buy any of those APs and I don't want to buy all three book if the information to which you are referring is only in one of them.
Thanks.
Creative Director
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For 1E, we classified the divinities as follows:
God/Goddess: The most powerful. They don't get stat blocks, and every thing they do is handled by plot points and narrative developments. They break rules however they want. All 3 of the Starstone deities (Norgorber, Cayden, and Iomeda) plus Aroden went from mortal directly to God/Goddess, although we were pretty vague and unclear as to whether or not they spent time as demigods beore that or just went straight from powerful mortal to god. But the point of the Starstone is that it made you a full-on no-stat-block god or goddess. They grant 5 domains to clerics.
Demigod: The next step down. Demigods have stat blocks, and can thus be killed in combat, theoretically, but they're powerful, and all live in the CR 26–CR 30 range. They grant 4 domains to clerics.
Other: Variously called "quasi-deity" or "Hero god" or nascent demon lord or other stuff... this category includes all things that are CR 25 or lower (no minimum CR, although they do skew higher toward CR 20+) who can grant spells to clerics. They grant less than 4 domains to clerics (although we might have slipped up here and there on that one).
In 2E, these categories have largely been all turned into purely narrative categories, with the mechanics of how many domains a cleric gets being 100% defined by the cleric class and not the power of their deity.
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Creative Director
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As for the Test of the Starstone: The idea here is that the exact details of what the test entails is different for everything that takes the test, just like the lich formula is different for every person. What we've said about what Cayden, Iomedae, and Norgorber have done in their tests is true only for them, and not for anyone else.
AKA: If you have a test of the Starstone in your campaign, you get to make all the rules up as you want!
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For 1E, we classified the divinities as follows:
God/Goddess: The most powerful. They don't get stat blocks, and every thing they do is handled by plot points and narrative developments. They break rules however they want. All 3 of the Starstone deities (Norgorber, Cayden, and Iomeda) plus Aroden went from mortal directly to God/Goddess, although we were pretty vague and unclear as to whether or not they spent time as demigods beore that or just went straight from powerful mortal to god. But the point of the Starstone is that it made you a full-on no-stat-block god or goddess. They grant 5 domains to clerics.
This is INCREDIBLY helpful. Thanks!
It sounds like it’s possible Aroden, Norgorber, or Iomedae (probably not Cayden) could’ve reached demigodhood *before* taking the Test of the Starstone.
If the only reward for completing it is full godhood, then it makes sense for them to still take it even though they may have already been immortal or super powerful.
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As for the Test of the Starstone: The idea here is that the exact details of what the test entails is different for everything that takes the test, just like the lich formula is different for every person. What we've said about what Cayden, Iomedae, and Norgorber have done in their tests is true only for them, and not for anyone else.
AKA: If you have a test of the Starstone in your campaign, you get to make all the rules up as you want!
I am considering doing just that for a goblin party (they did all the We Be Goblins adventures plus a few more) who would be taking the Test so they can replace those awful (in Lamashtu’s eyes) barghest “hero gods.”
