I agree with shroudb that Resentment probably is the currently best debuffing casters of the game.
For ancestry I don't remember any remarkable that really helps the witch. Anyone could be a good option. You can play as human to get Adapted Cantrip to take Eletric Arc and some extra general/class feats. Halflings, Ratfolks, Samsarans, Tripkees, Androids, Conrasus and Sprites could be good options too to allow you to invest into Int+Dex+Con/Wis at cost of a -1 in Str/Car.
For archetypes any int based multiclass like wizard or int psychic are good options to extend your spellslots and spell list and focus spells using your current int spell DC. Alchemist could be interesting too due some very good elixirs and mutagens but Quick Alchemy hurts your action economy so I don't recommend it too much for casters specially witches that already have familiars and hexes consuming actions.
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Don't forget that you can get cantrips from spellhearts and you do not need to spend a feat on that if you so choose.
Ratfolk can help with items thanks to Quick Stow (stash a wand/ L item) and Uncanny Cheeks (pull out any consumable for 1A). But Humans (or Human Adopted) are still kinda just the go-to standard for being so dang good w/ Natural Ambition, Multitalented, etc.
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I highly recommend the Blood in the Water Focus spell, which will work even better if you take an Alchemist Archetype.
It's overpowered exactly, but it is a plenty potent "damage floor" that you can rely on thanks to spirit damage + reflex save. Most especially if you go Alchemist and can throw slashing bombs that will still do tiny bits of damage on miss.
BitW as a spell does have a strict pre-cast requirement that basically turns it into a 3A activity, but once you cast it, the spell pretty much dooms that creature. Not only can you get free 0A sustains for doing slash damage, but you can manually sustain it as many times as you want in a round. It's that second detail that really helps the spell distinguish itself from all others.
While that sounds amazing, it is a low dmg spell, doing 6d6 per instance at L15, so it's only really a "good" spell if you are getting that damage for 1A. But checking my options, and saying "yeah, I'm just going to sustain 3 times this round" is something that I have said before.
Don't forget that you can sustain a spell beyond the targeting range, and that reflavoring the cosmetic "picture" of the spell in action is free and recommended for "old reliable" focus spells that you'll be casting a lot.
Using hexes is actually kinda tricky for Witch a lot of the time, as that's just your focus spells + cantrip, so being able to have a "sustain spam" focus spell option in BitW is actually a bit more important for Witch than it may seem.
Another neat trick to help your math not fall behind as you rep the Witch. If you do pick Resentment, their cantrip is the only one in the game that's got the curse tag. That gives it unique synergy with the Accursed Staff, which gives you tHP every time a foe fails a save against one of your curses. If you plan on using Evil Eye, it's kinda the perfect bit of gear to pair with it.
My other main advice for having fun as a Witch is to buy plenty of spell scrolls, they are cheap and very useful.
My last bit of advice is to search around for item-handling familiar advice for Alchemists.
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Witch is definitely not Rogue level (not much is), but it's pretty capable these days. Resentment is definitely a strong pick.
Archetypes can go a lot of ways. What do you want to be better at? You can probably find an archetype for that. For example, I made a Cleric that wanted to be the best healer possible so I took Medic and just leaned fully into it.
My Oracle meanwhile wants to have a wider pool of options, so I took Sorcerer to get another spell tradition/more slots, and then took Investigator for Skill Mastery (better skills) and Pursue a Lead (bonuses when investigating stuff).
Since you're going to have a high INT, Alchemist is an easy pick to get a whole different set of options in that now you have Alchemy items easily available when you need them. Psychic also leans into your INT and can net you a strong amp cantrip option and some more spell slots (Amp Guidance from The Infinite Eye is one of the strongest team-boosting focus spells in the game). Investigator can give you bunch of extra skill boosts so you can have a lot more skills when things come up. If you have the Charisma for it, Oracle can get you some nice Cursebound abilities that don't use your focus points and can also get you extra Divine spell slots to open up some extra optons.
Alternately you could go for something like Sentinel, buff your Strength some, and wear heavier armor than you normally could. This isn't really an "optimal" thing to do, but it can be pretty fun concept wise. (That said, Athletics is one of the most rolled skills in the game in Paizo adventures, and more STR means you're better at it. Heavier armor means you need less DEX to cap your AC so you can get the STR from there.)
So when it comes to your free archetype feats, I'd start from a position of "what do I want to be able to do that I can't do right now?" Find an archetype that adds that. Adding more options to your toolbox gives you more ways to solve problems, and versatility is power in PF2.
I don't recommend Sentinel archetype for armorless casters after remaster because you can take the "same" benefit using general feats now.
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are we talking in the tier of the Rogue, Fighter? Or are we talking about a class that's further down the totem pole?
There is basically nothing else in the game that is in the tier of Bard, Rogue, and Fighter with the possible exception of Exemplar. So I don't think that is a valid measuring stick to judge classes on.
Witch is a solid pick now. It is a full caster base, though with less armor proficiency than several other full casters (such as the Bard mentioned earlier). Then on top of that, it has some of the better focus spell casting, and a unique non-action ability coming from the familiar any time you use one of those focus spells.
Personally I prefer Spinner of Threads for buffing and debuffing, but I will agree that Resentment is better for just debuffing.
Evil Eye causes Sickened. Which doesn't stack with Frightened, so be aware of that. Sickened is harder for enemies to get rid of though. It magically can't be gotten rid of while you are sustaining the spell. And once you stop sustaining, they have to spend at least one action to remove it.
And Ongoing Misery is one of the best debuff synergies in print currently. Though you may have to have a quick conversation about what does or doesn't qualify to be prolonged. For example, Frightened doesn't technically have a timed duration of 'until the end of your turn', so it can be argued that it doesn't qualify.
Personally, I think that it is close enough and should qualify. If your GM agrees (and for anything else that does qualify) then you can do things like sustain Evil Eye on one enemy and have Ongoing Misery prolong Frightened on a different enemy. That means that for 1 action you are keeping two enemies debuffed. So you still have actions left for casting a full 2-action spell.
As for choice of ancestry and archetype, I think it is better to pick according to the character image rather than trying to optimize. Or at least pick something that fits with the team synergy rather than trying to double down on spellcasting or debuffing. Doubling down style of optimizing very quickly has diminishing returns in PF2.
I just mocked up a Witch as described above with Wizard dedication, it seems very good indeed. Getting spells from the Arcane list adds a significant amount of power. I am not too knowledge in terms of the Familiar, am I allow to command it for free via Patrons Puppet and command it to for example move on top of our Fighters backpack so he can be targeting whoever the fighter is targeting and any future rounds I don't have to spend an action to get him into position?
Unfortunately probably you can't make your familiar move for free using another character. It's up to your GM because we don't have an specific rule for familiars but when you have a creature over another creature that's not made to be mounted this normally consumes at last one action of them:
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The mount rules are for common cases: humanoids riding quadrupedal animals. However, you might allow someone to ride a beast or other type of creature by making a few adjustments. For an intelligent mount (such as a pegasus or unicorn), use the standard rules for mounted combat, but instead of attempting a check to Command an Animal, the rider uses the same number of actions to ask the creature to do what they want. As the GM, you determine whether the creature does as requested and whether Diplomacy checks or the like are needed. If one of your PCs is Tiny, they might want to ride on another PC's shoulder. In this case, the two PCs should both roll initiative and act together on the lower count, and they gain only two actions at the start of their turns instead of three since the larger PC must spend one action keeping the smaller PC balanced, and the smaller PC must spend one action holding on.
A PC can ride on another PC as long as the second PC is at least two size categories larger than them; this might be a Tiny awakened ferret riding in their elf teammate's backpack, or a halfling on a minotaur's shoulder. However, this requires a tremendous amount of coordination to ensure the smaller PC doesn't get in the way, or that the two PCs don't jostle each other into losing actions. As a result, for most parties, this tactic is less favorable than the smaller PC just using their own mount. If a PC who is at least two sizes smaller rides along with another PC or similar non-minion intelligent creature, roll both their initiatives and use the lower of the two results. The two PCs act in either order on the same initiative count. While traveling in this way, the PCs each gain two actions at the start of their turns, instead of three, since the larger PC spends one action keeping the smaller one balanced on their back, and the smaller PC spends one action maintaining their grip.
The basic idea is if a creature is mounting another creature that's not a minion and not made to be mounted at last one of the creatures needs to spend at last one action the keep both mounted. This happens to prevent to easily win free movement actions. The game simply expects that someone uses some action or pay with feats (like happen with mount companions with "independent" action take via mature feat).
One other question, once the Familiar is in position, do I just have to cast a hex spell or sustain a hex in order to have the Familiar use its Ongoing Misery ability for free without the use of an action?
Yes, the witch's familiar special abilities are linked to hexes. If you use or sustain an hex it can automatically use it Familiar Ability:
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Familiar Ability One of your familiar's two bonus abilities is always the one listed here, a mark of your patron's indelible influence. The benefit can occur only once per round when you Cast or Sustain a hex, and you can choose whether it occurs before or after the effects of Casting or Sustaining the hex.
Is the familiar able to maintain multiple negative conditions on the enemy for example Slowed, Clumsy and whatever else someone manages to put on that enemy?
Yes. The Familiar of Ongoing Misery doesn't limit this. If are negative condition with a time duraction they can be prolonged:
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Familiar of Ongoing Misery Your familiar seems hostile to all creatures other than you, hissing at them if they get too near. When you Cast or Sustain a hex, your familiar can curse a creature within 15 feet of it, prolonging the duration of any negative conditions affecting it by 1 round. This is a curse effect. This prolongs only conditions with a timed duration (such as “1 round” or “until the end of your next turn”) and doesn't prevent conditions from being removed by other means.
Also notice that conditions is write in plural reinforcing the idea that you can do with multiple conditions.
Also even if your familiar is killed this isn't a great problem for witches. Basically you get it again after rest making it more effective than a daily usage abilities/items and it also is not soo easier to kill like it looks because it shares your AC and saves and enter into dying condition normally.
I am not too knowledge in terms of the Familiar, am I allow to command it for free via Patrons Puppet
With Patron's Puppet specifically, you (the character) don't even command the familiar at all. The Patron commands the familiar directly.
Obviously, you (the player) are still making the decisions for what your characters do. So in that sense, you are still controlling your familiar, not the GM.
and command it to for example move on top of our Fighters backpack so he can be targeting whoever the fighter is targeting and any future rounds I don't have to spend an action to get him into position?
Unfortunately probably you can't make your familiar move for free using another character. It's up to your GM because we don't have an specific rule for familiars but when you have a creature over another creature that's not made to be mounted this normally consumes at last one action of them
A familiar riding on a character is generally allowed using the mounted combat rules. It is a bit of an interpretation since the way the rules are written for mounts it is the PC doing the riding and the minion being the mount. In the case of a familiar, the minion is instead the one doing the riding and the PC is the mount. But I would still use those rules.
The rules for losing an action from both characters when mounted is for when both are non-minion characters. Since a familiar is a minion, those rules do not apply.
So I would allow you to command you familiar to ride the Fighter ally character and both would still be able to use their actions normally.
One other question, once the Familiar is in position, do I just have to cast a hex spell or sustain a hex in order to have the Familiar use its Ongoing Misery ability for free without the use of an action?
Yes. The familiar's special patron ability is something that happens automatically when you cast or sustain a Hex with no action cost at all (not even a free action with a trigger).
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I thing this is because many people doesn't consider debuff as good as damage.
While DPR is more easier to see and to compare debuffing and even buffing and depends from many things.
For example the effect that you describes is from Slow/Synesthesia spells but they are a single target debuffs so it can be very good for a single strong boss but maybe not so good vs many targets.
So in terms of AoE damage many people just prefers to cast for example a Chain Lightning that probably will damage all enemies at time with a pretty high damage.
The other point is that different debuffs effectiveness works different for different characters. Slow is useful defensively once it prevents enemies to use 3-actions activities or prevent an 3rd attack or some 1-action ability that the enemy usually save for its 3rd action. In a party with a high defensive power like those partys accompanied by champions or protection clerics debuff enemy actions is not that incredible or even not so needed in comparison to ofensive power.
While Clumsy 3 could be very good for party with attacks vs AC and reflex saves it can be not so useful for earth kineticists or occult casters that have way more impulses/spells vs fortitude and will than they have vs reflexes.
The other point is the complexity of usage of debuffs. Such type of caster player needs to have a good knowledge of how the game mechanics works, the importance of each +1/-1 gives to the game (what usually requires some gameplay experience to really notice this in practice with the GM saying "oh you hit/crit by 1 thanks to your buff or enemy debuff" something that some GMs deslike because they consider a break in the immersion), what each condition does and vs what it is good and understand each party member capacities and gameplay style. This way more harder and requires more collaboration than just thrown an fireball/lightning bolt in the enemies only avoiding to hit an immunity/resistance and maybe in its maximum interest may want to try to searching for a weakness.
So many people simple avoid the debuffing and even can consider it "weak" due its higher complexity, teamplay and good knowledge over the system rules.
Personally I consider debuffing casters specially Resentment witches fantastically good and that many people overvalue the DPR effectiveness or just focus it ignoring the teamplay and debuffing/buff benefits over it but I understand that some people avoids complex gameplay and doesn't like or trust into teamwork.
Uhhh, and I am confused how this isn't considered in the top tier? Anyone who can do this is like trivializing most encounters. I'd take this over a rogue in a fight, am I missing something here?
The other complication is that once the familiar hexes a foe to extend a significant debuff, that foe is not going to be happy, and familiars do not have a lot of HP. If / when the familiar takes damage, they can go dying in a single crit.
If the GM is playing for keeps, and there's 2 or 3 foe turns before a PC can even act, it's mathematically quite likely the familiar is going to die w/ 0 real chance to prevent it. Hopefully it'll take foe actions away from attacking the PCs, though my own spirit familiar struggles as soon as AoE damage starts happening.
But, again, this focus only shifts if the Witch is able to actually get a good debuff to stick, which will be somewhat uncommon. Don't forget the 15ft range limit on the familiar ability.
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The other complication is that once the familiar hexes a foe to extend a significant debuff, that foe is not going to be happy, and familiars do not have a lot of HP. If / when the familiar takes damage, they can go dying in a single crit.
Let's hear it for incompetence.
Uselessness saves lives.
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Uhhh, and I am confused how this isn't considered in the top tier? Anyone who can do this is like trivializing most encounters. I'd take this over a rogue in a fight, am I missing something here?The other complication is that once the familiar hexes a foe to extend a significant debuff, that foe is not going to be happy, and familiars do not have a lot of HP. If / when the familiar takes damage, they can go dying in a single crit.
If the GM is playing for keeps, and there's 2 or 3 foe turns before a PC can even act, it's mathematically quite likely the familiar is going to die w/ 0 real chance to prevent it. Hopefully it'll take foe actions away from attacking the PCs, though my own spirit familiar struggles as soon as AoE damage starts happening.
But, again, this focus only shifts if the Witch is able to actually get a good debuff to stick, which will be somewhat uncommon. Don't forget the 15ft range limit on the familiar ability.
This is its downside, yeah. You can land this and cripple things, right up until they realize the familiar is a threat and kill it. It doesn't have the defense to survive against any kind of significant threat.
It is top tier though. Synesthesia is absolutely crippling and keeping it up for an extended duration can straight up end fights. It's easily on the "best spells in the game" list.
I think people undervalue stuff like this (and buffing/debuffing in general) because people like to roll big damage numbers and this isn't that. But for tactically minded players, debuffs like this win encounters. Trust me, I GM'd a group whose Bard absolutely loved this spell, lol.
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This is its downside, yeah. You can land this and cripple things, right up until they realize the familiar is a threat and kill it. It doesn't have the defense to survive against any kind of significant threat.
There are options available to mitigate this problem. Phase Familiar, Lifelink, and Protect Companion being the most direct. Since Ongoing Misery does have a 15 foot range, positioning the familiar behind allies can also be indirectly effective.
And in the worst case, living familiars would follow the same death and dying process as other allies, so Stabilize, First Aid, Treat Wounds, and healing spells would all be effective to keep the familiar available for the next fight in the day even if an enemy does decide to target them.
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This is its downside, yeah. You can land this and cripple things, right up until they realize the familiar is a threat and kill it. It doesn't have the defense to survive against any kind of significant threat.
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The point is what are the bigger threat? That familiar with same AC and save of its master that is keeping you debuffed or the all other (probably) 4 adventurers that are spanking you, including that one that is controlling this familiar that's probably also still throwing more spells on you!?
I found this recently so I only posting this now. But there's a good archetype recommendation for witches (I just don't know if worth to take as free archetype because it's too cheap in terms of feats).
It's exemplar archetype picking Horn Of Plenty ikon via its dedication feat.
This ikon is a special container that only accepts elixirs and potions witch the level is up to your level and it's limited to 1 bulk (what means a limit of 10 elixirs/potions because they are light volume each). It also auto creates a temp elixir or potion that you know the formula during your daily preparations, at level 8th it creates 2 temp elixirs/potions and at level 16th increases to 3 temp elixirs/potions.
Also its immanence effect is that you can draw and drink any potions/elixir stored in the container with just 1-action and its Transcendence action is draw, drink and then transfer its effect to an ally in 60ft instead of you.
This ikon works stupidly well with Cauldron and Double, Double feats all together allowing you to have up to 9 temp potions of up to your level at 19th level and able to drink with only one action each or to apply them in your allies at range without risk you and them to trigger a reaction due use of interact actions in enemy reach.
*If you take the exemplar dedication via Ancient Elf heritage
This combination is awesome powerful once that potions are basically are 'spell in a bottle' and be able to make many of them for free with your on level and use them as just 1-action is fantastically good specially for uses as healing and buffing without press your action economy too much.