So...Same than Blue_frog, I don't get what you are trying to show because I don't get what you are speaking about precisely.
Anyway, I don't learn spells with my casters, so it's kind of whiteroomy to me. But I buy truckload of Scrolls, which are twice more expensive than learning a spell, and I never had money issues. That's why I'm puzzled by your demonstration.
Edit: You answered part of the question just above. So the last question is: What did you consider as "the amount of money available to a character"?
Currency allocation on the "Treasure for New Characters" table, since it's about as close as there is to an individual WBL table.
Most APs give out more treasure than the party treasure or treasure for new characters tables, to my knowledge, so most players will have more money than this. Nevertheless, it's the closest thing I have to a measuring stick for expected player income.
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I do think PFS scenarios work very well for wizards. You tend to get a lot of knowledge about what is coming up, tons of down time, free scrolls you can use to get new spells, and a lot of opportunity to use spells out of combat.There’s also the fact that PFS encounters are easy by design so that any kind of group can succeed, and are usually limited to one or two fights. That’s the kind of setup where casters (wizards included) thrive.
Most sessions will have 3 fights. Some will have 2, but some will have 4. I've even seen 5. (Balance is around 4 encounters, of which 1 is expected to be non-combat.)
As a reminder, PFS reports include nothing about characters, not even their level. Well, yes, there's a name.
They'll know name, number of scenarios played (so, yes level), Prestige earned, and faction.
You *can* enter class info but I don't know how many people do that -- I would expect that to be low. It used to be mildly helpful to enter class & stat info for online play, but now there are better ways to keep track of that.
Currency allocation on the "Treasure for New Characters" table, since it's about as close as there is to an individual WBL table.
Why currency allocation and not lump sum? Currency allocation is just a really small part of what you own.
Currency allocation on the "Treasure for New Characters" table, since it's about as close as there is to an individual WBL table.Why currency allocation and not lump sum? Currency allocation is just a really small part of what you own.
I could also do % of lump sum, sure. I can run those numbers later, after I get done with some shoveling.
I personally find % currency more meaningful; permanent items+currency means currency is a remainder after you've already factored in several large and desirable item purchases you would likely make anyways. And the items and currency are also usually worth more gold overall than lump sum. But I can understand wanting % of lump sum as another reference point.
...I appreciate the point your making but does the wizard have to have all of the 580The strength of prepared casting is partly the diversity of arcane spells available to prepare in the game. If people have written off that argument cause 36 spells is good enough for them then 580 spells or so are just sitting there that they wont use and wont see the value in using in the situations designers had in mind for them.
Other people have already commented on the importance of the remaining spells, and the fact that nowadays you can have more than 36 spells known as a Sorcerer.
I will just add that, you are giving the remaining spells to the Wizard for free, but they aren't Clerics; In practice, I don't think you would ever be able to have every spell in your spellbook (so you are never really comparing the entire list against spells known), and for every scroll you assume the Wizard found or bought, you should assume the Sorcerer also found or bought (which means that, the "bigger spells repertoire" advantage, only really comes into play the second time you need such a spell the Sorcerer doesn't know in time-sensitive situation, and only if you actually prepared the spell and the Sorcerer does not have another spell in their repertoire that does the trick and didn't buy/find a backup scroll)
That is a lot of ifs and circumstances that must align, so that you maybe kinda catch up to the Sorcerer at their floor, from time to time.
A bit of a tangent, but another thing I would like to point out is that a lot of people tend to combine repertoire and casting method when discussing prepared against spontaneous casting, but these are two different components.
spontaneous casting is a more powerful form of casting, and a bigger/expandable repertoire is supposed to help prepared casters makeup for that; or, in other words, given the same repertoire spontaneous casting is a strictly better form of casting.
I gave arcane evo its due further in that post.
If all you need is one spell and the sorcerer has to learn it and its lower rank no problem. they can learn it and have up to 4 casts of it ready to go for the day. But if its on rank they might not learn the spell when they try and have to wait till they level to try again. A wizard is just better at adapting in this way cause they are int based and likely to invest in arcana all the way.And if what you want to do is actually shift up several spells for expected situations then a sorcerer just isn't able to do that. They will make the best use of what they have +1 added spell, if they succeed at learning it. I am not saying a sorcerer wont have a useable spell in rep. But if there are spells better suited they can only add 1 of them for the situation.
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This is the % of Lump Sum wealth that it costs, cumulatively, to buy exactly one spell of each rank on curve. I'm assuming only successes on Learn a Spell, and no scroll costs are factored in:
1) 13.33%
2) 6.67%
3) 10.67%
4) 5.71%
5) 8.89%
6) 5.33%
7) 8.33%
8) 5.45%
9) 8.13%
10) 5.65%
11) 8.44%
12) 6.00%
13) 8.91%
14) 6.13%
15) 9.04%
16) 6.10%
17) 9.07%
18) 6.04%
19) 14.09%
20) 8.68%
It looks like less, but you've got to also remember that important items are expensive and chunk you quite hard. A greater resilient rune is 3440 gp of the 13,500 gp of your level 15 lump sum. A level 12 staff is 1800 gp. An armor potency rune +2 is L11 and 1060 gp. A type III ring of wizardry is L12, costs 2000 gp, gives +2 arcana, and gives you two slots for slow (if your dm allows it). Eyes of the Cat are 700 gp. A greater choker of elocution (which gives languages and +2 society) is 900 gp. A greater endless grimoire is another third rank slot and another 900 gp, though you may prefer a wand of slow for 360 gp and a book of lingering blaze for 900 gp; fire resist is common enough, let's take that option. A greater retrieval belt is 600 gp. Your trusty tailwind wand is still 160 against you.
Without even buying an armor property rune, that's 11920 gp and you have 1580 left. Learning an 8th rank spell is 650 gp, and we haven't even accounted for any spells you've bought in the past. And god forbid you need to buy the scroll; that be 1300+650 for 1950 gp total and put you over budget immediately, even if you critically succeed on learning a spell.
Some of the stuff above is easier to sac; I think the grimoire is probably first to go. But you get the idea. Money is very tight.
EDIT: Note the first list does assume you're buying the spell pretty much immediately when you level, and not using money gained throughout the level. The numbers, when taken as a percentage of the /next/ level's lump sum, are instead:
1) 6.67%
2) 2.67%
3) 5.71%
4) 2.96%
5) 5.33%
6) 3.33%
7) 5.45%
8) 3.75%
9) 5.65%
10) 4.06%
11) 6.00%
12) 4.22%
13) 6.13%
14) 4.22%
15)6.10%
16) 4.07%
17) 6.04%
18) 3.94%
19) 8.68%
(none for 20, i'm too lazy to derive it from party treasure by level)
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My money's on them getting it from ... PFS feedback...As a reminder, PFS reports include nothing about characters, not even their level. Well, yes, there's a name.
Really?
Every time I sign up to play PFS I have to give:Character Name
Character Class
Character Level
Character's Faction
Character's PFS #
Now I don't know if anything except the PFS# is reported.
I've only ever played, so it may be that the GM only needs to report the #
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I have a Level 15 Wizard in a friend's homebrew campaign. Started him at Level 12... we brought the campaign over from D&D 3.5 at that level (the GM wanted to try Pathfinder, and, well, keeping the GM happy is a priority when he's been running for 10+ years.)
I've been giving a lot of thought to playing a Wizard in PFS. Kinda based on my other Wizard, but making some different choices. For one thing, I went Rogue Dedication with the other guy. I think I'd like to go straight Wizard this time.
One thing I've noticed: For the early levels, I think Wizards have the edge on Cantrips. For the first few levels Cantrips are, IMHO, pretty important.
Any Wizard can, of course, swap out their Prepared Cantrips every day. They share that capability with the Witch. The Sorcerer can't do that, at least not until later levels (when they're able to rely more on Spell Slots anyways.)
I mean, I like Eat Fire... Fire damage is common, it's a Cantrip that uses a Reaction (and a 1st level Wizard doesn't have a lot of uses for Reactions, usually), it has a fun secondary effect... what's not to like? Still though, if I know I'm going to be facing the zombie master, I'd rather slot something else.
By a strict reading, Spell Substitution doesn't work with Cantrips, as it specifies spell slots... but really, I think it's not a big stretch for the Thesis that enables swapping prepared spells to be able to swap a prepared Cantrip.
Spell Blending? While yes, it doesn't work to get high level slots for a while, you can still trade any slot to prepare two additional Cantrips that day. I can see value in the early levels for doing that.
Staff Nexus: While I agree with everyone who thinks that the whole "spend a 1st Rank slot to charge a single 1st Rank spell from the Staff" is pointless... it still will give an additional Cantrip (and you don't have to charge the Staff for that.)
The other two Theses don't really help in that way. I'm not a big Familiar fan, so I've never really examined what Improved Familiar Attunement really gives you.
I think though, that I'm going to stick with Experimental Spellshaping. I like starting with Reach Spell (going to go Human and grab Spellbook Prodigy as well.) My 15th level guy has gotten a lot of use out being able to swap between Spellshaping Feats. So that'll be fun at 4th.
So I'm looking at going Ars Magica, and I think it will work out quite well. Command is a fun School spell. Never noticed before that it shuts down Reactions until the Command is obeyed. Kinda cool.
One thing I do like about the new Schools over the old: the old Schools didn't give you free Spells in your Spellbook. The new ones do. I can appreciate that.
Third action, I have some options. Move, as always. Cast Shield if I prep it. (I do like Shield.) If I'm stuck close to the action, Protective Wards is there. Want to keep my distance? Reach Spell.
Anyways, I'm rambling.
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My money's on them getting it from ... PFS feedback...As a reminder, PFS reports include nothing about characters, not even their level. Well, yes, there's a name.Really?
Every time I sign up to play PFS I have to give:
Character Name
Character Class
Character Level
Character's Faction
Character's PFS #Now I don't know if anything except the PFS# is reported.
I've only ever played, so it may be that the GM only needs to report the #
I GM PFS2e. When you report, it's Character Name, Faction, PFS Player # and Character #.
Class is never mentioned in the Reporting. Sign-up sheets ask for it because it helps the GMs prep for the games.
I am pretty sure the PFS character database links class and level to the character number. It would probably be trivially easy to figure out how many players are playing each class in reported PFS scenarios and how often those characters are leveling up. I bet PFS sees a fair number of wizards and people stick with them, because I’ve seen it online, and because scenarios are pretty wizard friendly.
At least with spell substitution, I have found wizards can get away with only ever buying one of a lot more utility scrolls than any other caster can, thus also increasing their spellbook by a lot more. Spells like illusory disguise, which heighten at set Ranks can be pretty annoying to keep on hand with scrolls in a useful fashion, but you can decide on the fly if you need a heightened one (or 3) or not in most situations where you are planning an infiltration or heist.
Third action, I have some options. Move, as always. Cast Shield if I prep it. (I do like Shield.) If I'm stuck close to the action, Protective Wards is there. Want to keep my distance? Reach Spell.
It can be very party dependent , but I got tons of use out of protective wards in a party with 2 kineticists and an alchemist. I can’t even count how many critical hits it turned in to regular hits and hits into misses for which it was responsible. The area is probably on the small side, given you have to sustain it to keep it around, and it could afford to be buffed, but it was definitely a useful third action in many encounters. The hard part is keeping any focus points around to use it after you get your level focus spell and have clairvoyance on demand.
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I am pretty sure the PFS character database links class and level to the character number. It would probably be trivially easy to figure out how many players are playing each class in reported PFS scenarios and how often those characters are leveling up. I bet PFS sees a fair number of wizards and people stick with them, because I’ve seen it online, and because scenarios are pretty wizard friendly.
Like I said, class is an optional field. (They have spaces for you to fill out your class and race and stats and as much else as you want to, but there is no reason to do it, and it is in a 1e format. It used to be important for PbP on the Paizo site, but it is not directly used for anything else.)
Most people I know do not fill any of that information in, although it wouldn't shock me if some new players did for their first few characters.
Level is absolutely tracked.
I don't know if they do surveys with VCs or RVCs, but that would be a way they could get more on the ground information. It would also be possible for them to get some info from places like Roll20 or Foundry, but no idea if there if any data sharing agreements like those exist.
Rune of Observation is a bit limited in that you have to be able to see where you place the sensor. But after that? For long-term surveillance there's nothing like it.
My 15th level Wizard, his group needed to get information out of a base commander. He and the party Rogue snuck into the base, got to his office, set the sensor above the desk, and retreated to a safe spot roughly 500' away. And proceeded to watch the commander sitting at his desk, going about his day, for the rest of the day.
Reports, personnel lists, all kind of things were open on that desk while my Wizard watched. And as he had a +5 Intelligence, the GM ruled that he could easily remember everything he could see. It was fantastic.
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I read Arcane Evolution Remastered. Apparently you don't need a spellbook anymore. You can learn the spell from any source and you just know it and can add it to your repertoire during daily prep or make another spell your sig spell for the day.
So no spellbook, just add them to your list and pick from them as you learn them.
Another mini-buff for the sorcerer.