Let the bodies hit the floor?

[QuidEst]

In another topic of discussion, the question came up about mid-air summons. As far as I can tell, it's not something that PF2 prevents like PF1 did. Thralls can't fly (can't even move, generally), so they're just going to drop. A falling creature is a basic reflex save of DC 15 to avoid taking half their fall damage. With a 30ft range, adjacent creatures are saving against 7 damage, while anyone further away is saving vs. less. Or is it a save to avoid half of one damage, since the thrall only takes one damage from the fall?

It's also a way for Flesh Magicians to just create difficult terrain directly, which seems reasonable to be able to do.

Falling skeletons and zombies feel a little silly, so it's probably best if this isn't a secret low-level damage option. I'd prefer any fixes to low-level play to be a little less goofy.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

QuidEst wrote:

In another topic of discussion, the question came up about mid-air summons. As far as I can tell, it's not something that PF2 prevents like PF1 did. Thralls can't fly (can't even move, generally), so they're just going to drop. A falling creature is a basic reflex save of DC 15 to avoid taking half their fall damage. With a 30ft range, adjacent creatures are saving against 7 damage, while anyone further away is saving vs. less. Or is it a save to avoid half of one damage, since the thrall only takes one damage from the fall?

It's also a way for Flesh Magicians to just create difficult terrain directly, which seems reasonable to be able to do.

Falling skeletons and zombies feel a little silly, so it's probably best if this isn't a secret low-level damage option. I'd prefer any fixes to low-level play to be a little less goofy.

I'm torn-

On one hand, the idea of the "secret strat" of the Necromancer being Raining Men feels unintuitive to players. Either being able to perform mid-air attacks OR being able to damage enemies by dropping corpses on them are abilities that are not immediately obvious, and rely a lot on "the book doesn't say you CAN'T". I think this is risky, cause its probably bad if a lot of people need to know "one weird trick" to fully take advantage of the necromancer.

On the other hand, it's the single funniest thing I have ever heard of in Pathfinder 2e, and I 100% want to play in a world where there's an entire secret strat called "I drop a ghost on you like a cartoon anvil and it hurts"

[Perpdepog]

As an addendum, I'd love a feat that allows thralls to be summoned who can hang in water or in air. I invision it as a single feat, maybe around levels 4 or 6, which grants first the ability to summon a thrall into water or some other liquid, and then call up a thrall in mid-air later on, around the levels when flying enemies are more common and ancestries are gaining the ability to perma-fly, probably around level 10-ish.

[QuidEst]

Perpdepog wrote:

As an addendum, I'd love a feat that allows thralls to be summoned who can hang in water or in air. I invision it as a single feat, maybe around levels 4 or 6, which grants first the ability to summon a thrall into water or some other liquid, and then call up a thrall in mid-air later on, around the levels when flying enemies are more common and ancestries are gaining the ability to perma-fly, probably around level 10-ish.

It feels like it'd be very tax-y to me... I've got another thread on Necromancer's issues with flying enemies, and this feels like you'd need to take it to solve the issue. That said, it's better than not having any solution to the problem.

[Ectar]

I find this hilarious.
And I almost feel like it's fine?

It scales terribly and requires the necromancer to get very up close and personal with the enemies.

Fwiw, I think it'd be against 7 damage. The fact that the thrall has only 1 hit point, I'm fairly certain is immaterial.

[YuriP]

Well at last is a way to avoid MAP. Once that Create a Thrall and let it fall over an enemy is a reflex save you can safely use a use another thrall to Strike when you are able to create 2 thralls.

The problem is that a lvl 7 enemy probably will able to succeeded or critically succeeded the save.

Also if your thrall is a skeleton there's a DC 15 chance to it survives.

[QuidEst]

YuriP wrote:

Well at last is a way to avoid MAP. Once that Create a Thrall and let it fall over an enemy is a reflex save you can safely use a use another thrall to Strike when you are able to create 2 thralls.

The problem is that a lvl 7 enemy probably will able to succeeded or critically succeeded the save.

Also if your thrall is a skeleton there's a DC 15 chance to it survives.

The skeleton can't survive because a falling creature doesn't get a save. If somebody fell on a skeleton, the skeleton might survive.

[YuriP]

You are right. I mixed the things.

[Tridus]

Perpdepog wrote:

As an addendum, I'd love a feat that allows thralls to be summoned who can hang in water or in air. I invision it as a single feat, maybe around levels 4 or 6, which grants first the ability to summon a thrall into water or some other liquid, and then call up a thrall in mid-air later on, around the levels when flying enemies are more common and ancestries are gaining the ability to perma-fly, probably around level 10-ish.

How would a summoned corpse with no mobility stay flying without any action cost? The Fly spell can't even do that.

"Thralls all have Air Walk (which isn't even a remaster spell) and something like Water Walk for free" is somehow even worse verisimilitude wise than "thralls can just get summoned out of nothing in midair and dropped like bombs". Frankly, it sounds like simply ignoring other rules of the game to suit the mechanic that someone wants to make, rather than making that mechanic actually work within the established framework of how the game functions.

I can honestly say when I hear "Necromancer", the first thing that comes to mind isn't "looney tunes physics", and yet here we are.