I wonder how much things would change if spellstrike cantrip didn't require to recharge. It might make turns very samey still if no other options exist within the class. Kind of like Starlit Span.I'm personally very much in favor of removing the recharge requirement when Spellstriking with a cantrip, and believe it would actually make turns less samey overall. I think this can be broken down into two cases:
If you're playing a melee Magus, you'd actively work towards landing a Spellstrike whenever possible, which would be your best-case scenario. However, because fighting in melee will often force you to spend actions doing other things, such as moving or simply recovering from certain conditions, your turns will still change quite a bit, and there will be turns where you still won't be able to Spellstrike.
If you're playing a Starlit Span Magus, you'd still be Spellstriking every round as normal, but at least your third action would be freed up to do something different each time, creating more variation from one turn to the next. The frequency limitation on sure strike also means you wouldn't just be able to buff your Spellstrike every round either. So whether you'd be playing melee or ranged, you'd still have varied turns in my opinion, albeit for different reasons.
It's true that it does open up some stuff, going for a trip before a spellstrike would be easier to do.
I still think more attack actions should be available within the class though, maybe some would have flourish (and so would spellstrike then) or even the press trait, that'd be neat. Or different follow up to spellstrike like Cascading Ray.But then, if the need for recharge become so rare (since you'd have 4 slots for spellstrike that would require it afterward), is there any need for a lot of recharge tools ? Recharging with focus spells becomes trivial when you'll likely do it once per fight.
I'm afraid it might lead to a less dynamic flow overall, less interraction between the class' mechanics.
Which is already a problem in some aspects.
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On a somewhat related note, how would Magus players feel about making Spellstrike HARDER to recharge (probably by removing the basic recharge action completely and leaving conflux spells as the only way to recharge) but in exchange giving the class multiple free resources for attack roll spells at their highest spell rank? As an analogue to the heal and harm fonts.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally feel this would be the worst of both worlds: I dislike excessive clunkiness as a balancing lever, as it tends to impact quite negatively on play experience, but I also believe that the Magus's ability to output humongous burst damage is actually not a good thing, at least not past a certain point. Pathfinder takes great pains to frame our damage under fairly tight boundaries and limit our ability to one-shot powerful opponents by any means, so that we don't trivialize encounters: generally this works really well, except when the Magus goes nova with a slot spell, get one lucky crit and maybe an above-average damage roll, and single-handedly obliterates what was meant to be a challenging fight at low level. While I do like the Magus's capacity for burst, I do not think they need to be so bursty as to literally one-shot bosses at low level ranges, and would want to move away from that kind of range, not more towards it.
But then, if the need for recharge become so rare (since you'd have 4 slots for spellstrike that would require it afterward), is there any need for a lot of recharge tools ? Recharging with focus spells becomes trivial when you'll likely do it once per fight.
I'm afraid it might lead to a less dynamic flow overall, less interraction between the class' mechanics.
Which is already a problem in some aspects.
So here's the thing: a lot of classes are flexible not because they have a lot of feats prescribing them what to do in conjunction with their class features, but because their class features are open-ended and unobtrusive enough to let them pick a great variety of options. The Fighter is a great example of this, because they only depend on three attributes at a time and their class features don't push them to do anything too specific besides Strike at least once on their turn: as a result, they can boost whichever fourth score they like, opt into whichever skills they like, and easily go for a variety of archetypes that they can easily integrate if they have their own actions.
Now, the Magus is probably never going to reach that degree of open-endedness, as they have some of the most prescriptive class features in the game, but by making those features a little less obstrusive, you could probably get a lot more variety out of the class overall. A Magus that didn't need to recharge their Spellstrike at all, and that had their ability to Spellstrike with non-cantrip spells balanced differently, is a Magus who would have many more actions to spend on other things, and who could therefore integrate skill actions and even actions from other archetypes more easily into their playstyle. Feat-based skill actions don't need to recharge their Spellstrike in order to be a concept worthy of inclusion, and if you could find a way to make them Strike in a great variety of ways, that'd be even better. Telekinetic maneuver is a great way to integrate maneuvers with Spellstriking, and there ought to be more ways of letting the Magus add a greater variety of tools to their toolbox.
It might work, would just have to see what more options would be available.
It certainly would allow more strikes from archetypes to be there (press ones etc) especially 1action ones.
Guess I just like the looping aspects lol, feels rewarding within the design itself. A matter of personnal preference I suppose.
It would have to come with a remove of focus spellstrikes though.
Since you'd only need to recharge after non-cantrips, you could easily nova with one during a fighter, recharge and stick to cantrips afterward.
It kinds of diminishes the value of conflux spells quite a bit, since they moreso allow you to sustain than to burst.
Indeed, removing the recharge aspect of conflux spells would diminish their value, but then that to me also says they could then be allowed to be made stronger in other ways. If the core value of conflux spells is that they provide amazing action economy, that could be something to lean into and give them an action economy benefit in some other way. Dimensional assault could provide even more mobility, for instance, and you could have other conflux spells integrate skill actions.
In a sense having recharge options and tools remains good though.
Even if it's only when spellstriking with more than cantrips, if you invest in staves, wands, scrolls or an archetype there is a lot of spells you might use that don't need to be top rank damage spells (telekinetic maneuver, slow, fear, gust of wind etc)
Then having tools to more easily recharge would remain very useful.
Maybe an auto recharge on certain skills based on subclass would then be too good, but conflux spells and some feats you can pick based on your playstyle would certainly be welcome.
I have suggested several options to make those turns more interresting, notably by expanding on what ArcCsd allows you to do (either as basic features or through feats giving you new strike options outside of spellstrike, could also have purely movement or utility options in there)
Maybe making all focus spells recharge (but remove the ability to spellstrike with them) could allow off turns to cast a focus spell from any source for its own benefits (ranged attack, sure, but also support or control) and recharge your spellstrike to prepare for the next round.
From what was discussed so far I think the most impactful ideas for the magus were to
Make arcane cascade recharge spellstrike
Make arcane cascade be able to trigger as a reaction to a spell slot spell (changing this to only 2-3 action spellslot spell not cast through spellstrike)
Here's the thought about those two together.
Right now if a magus wants to spell strike again after the first use they need to either recharge in the same round or their next round needs to contain a conflux spell. What is limiting about this is they have to work around that conflux spell or use the recharge action limiting spell slot use if that is what the second round would have been better suited to. (each magus hybrid is different here in what they would be shooting for to make use of their conflux spell.) Casting a spell and moving would mean putting off both arcane cascade and the conflux spell(if its not movement based) This means a regular caster turn move and spell cast from a slot is competing with cast a spell and arcane cascade or setting up and using most conflux spells
Some of those new actions could be follow up to other strikes (press trait and all) or reactions to successful or failed strikes (not reactions as in, using your reaction but... you get it)
Maybe, if more focus spells aren't added to the class itself.
I aggree to an extent but also looking longer term: magus doesn't get new stuff very often.
Until recently with the latest errata, only a few spells were really cool to see added in new books to be used with magus (new attack spells or more battlemage oriented ones like blazing dive).
With that change, all focus spell addition can be a potential addition to different character concepts.
It could be interresting, even if only theoritically, to see what Magus could be if their "generic ranged/utility/normal" spells in combat are focus spells from the class or archetypes and their slotted spells are their heavy hitting combat altering daily ressource. Either their nova, or their big buffs or Aoes etc. That's kind of bandaidy tho'
Maybe it'd be too close to Psychic.
I'm not fond of that idea, it feels convoluted. It'd essentially be "roll Gouging Claw/Telekinetic Projectile like you would a spellstrike but without weapon rune and only spell damage, if you hit you recharge". Its weird that only then the martial proficiency is applied, where it's supposed to be the point of spellstrike, you get me?
I find the idea of the Magus drawing focus spells and other mechanics from other classes interesting. In a pie-in-the-sky total redesign, I'd quite like to see the Magus move away from just being a hybrid of the Wizard and Fighter, and instead be the hybrid class for any combination of caster and martial. You'd still have Spellstrike, but could then inherit key mechanics from one caster class as one dimension of subclasses, and also key mechanics from one martial class as another dimension of subclasses, so you could be your typical Wizard+Fighter, but could also be a Druid+Barbarian, a Psychic+Rogue, or any other combination. Assuming appropriate balance, this could leave room for focus spells based on which caster subclass you pick, and ideally this version could even be exceptionally able at poaching feats from their parent classes (e.g. you can select class feats from those classes freely as if they were your own class feats). Obviously, this is a far cry from the Magus we have now, and I wouldn't want to go that far in 2e, but there's definitely room for focus spells inspired by other casters, rather than based on a type of weapon.
There is potential in that.
While I don't think we'll see Magus go this far, some of the idea could be drawn upon for a remaster pass.
The concept to its fullest though, I think I could see another class go for it (so with another core feature than spellstrike), maybe call it the Warfarer or something. (I'm being cheeky here but I do think the concept could make for a fun class)