| Sibelius Eos Owm |
My vote is same thing that happens when any humanoid gets the curse of the werecreature... they gain a new animal form. No reason to turn randomly into a human unless it was a werehuman that bit you. Probably would treat animals immune the the were-curse of their own species, bit otoh I think technically only humanoids are susceptible in the first place so whatever you do is expanded lore anyway.
| moosher12 |
Nothing would happen as only humanoids can become wearcreatures (Monster Core 344, Howl of the Wild 76). Awakened Animals are beasts, not humanoids (even if granted a somewhat humanoid shape or features).
Checks out. Though the Werecreature really should update its requirements to be as so:
Requirements You are a Humanoid; You were born into a lineage of true werecreatures or were afflicted with the curse of the werecreature.
The problem is that when one glances at the archetype, they will look at the requirements, and strictly speaking, it's not said. The only part that says that it's humanoid only is the Curse of the Werecreature affliction, which is only in the Monster Core book, which a player is less likely to have. If the archetype is going to be in the same book, it should cover these bases, simply referring to humanoids is fine and dandy, but Requirements are the true limiter of whether or not you can take it. And at a glance, you'd have to search two books to know the requirement also requires being a humanoid.
| Ravingdork |
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Ravingdork wrote:Nothing would happen as only humanoids can become wearcreatures (Monster Core 344, Howl of the Wild 76). Awakened Animals are beasts, not humanoids (even if granted a somewhat humanoid shape or features).Checks out. Though the Werecreature really should update its requirements to be as so:
Requirements You are a Humanoid; You were born into a lineage of true werecreatures or were afflicted with the curse of the werecreature.
The problem is that when one glances at the archetype, they will look at the requirements, and strictly speaking, it's not said. The only part that says that it's humanoid only is the Curse of the Werecreature affliction, which is only in the Monster Core book, which a player is less likely to have. If the archetype is going to be in the same book, it should cover these bases, simply referring to humanoids is fine and dandy, but Requirements are the true limiter of whether or not you can take it. And at a glance, you'd have to search two books to know the requirement also requires being a humanoid.
Werecreatures being of humanoid stock is mentioned several times in the archetype's text. I would not have given its page number otherwise.
It is regrettable that it is not specifically called out in the Requirements line, but I still believe it to be quite clear for anyone who isn't merely skimming the text.
| moosher12 |
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Yeah, it's easy to miss without a more thorough read. And can be easily missed if you don't own the Monster Core, but only own Howl of the Wild, or if simply just browsing the Archives of Nethys.
Even the Beastkin heritage says you must be a Humanoid to take it.
Funny enough, I actually was about to be pedantic when I first read the post, and say "I don't see Humanoid on the requirements" as I assumed, as Ravingdork aptly described as "Stock humanoids" would more imply a tendency towards humanoids, not an exclusivity. And it was only upon taking the extra time to read the Monster Core to double check that I ate my own words, and completely erased and rewrote my message into what it now is.
Point being, I've read the Monster Core, I've read the Bestiary, I've read Howl of the Wild, and I've read the Ancestry Guide. But I've read a lot of other books, and after so many pages, it's easy to forget certain more specific details, to which I appreciate Ravingdork's citation. And a clarification like that can go a long way, as even I briefly got tripped up by it and completely forgot that humanoid was a requirement.
| JiCi |
What's interesting is that Centaurs and Minotaurs have both the Beast and Humanoid traits, yet they can get the Beastkin heritage and the Werecreature archetype.
The same thing applies to Ghorans and Conrasus, but since the later lacks the Humanoid trait, it doesn't have access to these, while the Ghoran can. Automatons and Poppets also have this difference.
To me, it feels like a missed opportunity, because versatile heritages should be, well, versatile.
For instance, the Beastkin heriatge could be twisted into variants:
- Consarus can reshape their wooden bodies.
- Automatons receive a different Hunter design.
- Skeletons just reshape themselves.
- Sprites have a different magical aspect.
- Awakened animals had something wrong with their Awaken spell (if it's a different animal) or were just lucky (if it's the same).
If there's really an ancestry that SHOULD have been versatile, it's Fleshwarp...
BotBrain
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What's interesting is that Centaurs and Minotaurs have both the Beast and Humanoid traits, yet they can get the Beastkin heritage and the Werecreature archetype.
The same thing applies to Ghorans and Conrasus, but since the later lacks the Humanoid trait, it doesn't have access to these, while the Ghoran can. Automatons and Poppets also have this difference.
To me, it feels like a missed opportunity, because versatile heritages should be, well, versatile.
For instance, the Beastkin heriatge could be twisted into variants:
- Consarus can reshape their wooden bodies.
- Automatons receive a different Hunter design.
- Skeletons just reshape themselves.
- Sprites have a different magical aspect.
- Awakened animals had something wrong with their Awaken spell (if it's a different animal) or were just lucky (if it's the same).If there's really an ancestry that SHOULD have been versatile, it's Fleshwarp...
If it could be done without being a bit confusing, I wish fleshwarp could be both a versatile heritage AND a race, with the racial variant representing you being so warped that you have nothing left of your original form.
| moosher12 |
If it could be done without being a bit confusing, I wish fleshwarp could be both a versatile heritage AND a race, with the racial variant representing you being so warped that you have nothing left of your original form.
I had given it a thought awhile back, and decided what I'd do for the purpose is to take advantage of the Custom Mixed Heritage rule, which says any ancestry can be both an ancestry and a heritage.
Worked out pretty well. For example, had a player who wanted to have clockwork augmentations, so I let them have an Automaton heritage to flavor as the effect. Same deal for someone who would want to be a mutant version of an existing heritage.
| Finoan |
No reason to turn randomly into a human unless it was a werehuman that bit you.
Being bit by a werehuman sounds like an interesting origin story for an awakened animal.
"Yeah, I was just a normal barn cat until one full moon some human came along and bit me for no reason. Turns out they were a cursed werehuman and now I am also cursed with a human-like mentality and can transform under the full moon."
Keirine, Human Rogue
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Finoan wrote:Being bit by a werehuman sounds like an interesting origin story for an awakened animal.I'd say the first interesting origin story would be "what the heck is werehuman?!" :)
I'm guessing it's an animal that is cursed to turn into a human under the light of a full moon and do human things, like pay taxes and worry about the meaning of mortality. Wonder about the moral value of picking a flower. Ponder whether there is something better to be doing as opposed to taking a nap. Wear pants.
Those kinds of horrible egregious things. The things we are all cursed with.
| JiCi |
JiCi wrote:If it could be done without being a bit confusing, I wish fleshwarp could be both a versatile heritage AND a race, with the racial variant representing you being so warped that you have nothing left of your original form.
If there's really an ancestry that SHOULD have been versatile, it's Fleshwarp...
My reasoning is that back in P1E, fleshwarps were various creatures heavily mutated by the drows:
- Drider (drow)- Ghonhatine (troglodyte)
- Grothlut (humans)
- Halsora (vegepygmy)
- Irnakurse (elf)
- Oronci (orc)
and there could have been more.
By making fleshwarps a regular ancestry, it just... removes that part. You're now a "non-descript" humanoid instead of a specific one who got mutated.