Karmagator |
Just some things I had to read several times, caused a double-take or that felt odd when "translated" into actual play.
1)Batteries upgrade, physical mags don't
This was mostly just a "what???" reaction from the massive difference. Basically, it took me way too long to realize that energy weapons don't have a fixed magazine size. Instead, they have bigger and bigger mags as you buy better batteries. Meanwhile projectile gun mags stay the same from 1-20, so that was hard to believe at first.
2) Primary Target allows area weapons to make a regular Strike
I've gotten used to this due to how the devs used it before (it's just "specific beats general"), but I've seen more than a few people either not noticing or going "ehm, is this right?".
What got me personally is that Primary Target's mechanics and "story" don't line up in this regard. For example, the stellar cannon is basically a shrapnel missile launcher. But suddenly, the second missile I fire is just a dud and doesn't explode? I just know that wouldn't feel right in play.
3) Auto-Fire and low ammo
Auto-Fire doesn't tell you what happens when you don't have enough ammo to target all creatures in the cone. There is already a thread about this specifically, but it is worth mentioning again.
4) Suppressing Fire (Soldier feature) still makes no sense
This is purely from a "mechanics translated into story" perspective. Suppressive fire is when I fire at enemies so they keep staying nice and passive. If I hit some shots that's nice, but usually not necessary to achieve the intended effect. But mechanically, enemies only get suppressed when they fail their save, aka when they are directly hit by the explosion or riddled by bullets. That isn't suppression, that is just shooting people and they (understandably) don't like that.
5) Ready Reload (Soldier 1st)
"You Interact to reload your weapon, reducing its reload cost by 1." I'm 99% sure that this supposed to be mechanically identical to FT1, but I see some misreading potential here and I had to definitely read it twice. Basically, this is supposed to fully reload a reload 2 weapon in one action. But I could easily see new players reading this as "this is just a regular reload, I just don't need a free hand to do it" (not knowing that that is already a thing) or something like that.
6) Shoving Shot (Soldier 4th) - Use the Force I guess?
I mostly like the result (needing STR), but again, mechanics and story are at odds here. The idea is clear, you use the force of the discharge. But instead you are making an Athletics check, i.e. something that has literally nothing to do with your weapon. It just doesn't line up.
It would be much more fitting to have a slightly nerfed version of Scattering Fire somewhere around this level and then an upgrade or two later instead of Hammer the Nail, rather than have two of these at the same time (with one being weird).
7) Come Get Some! (Soldier 10th)
One, the option to make a ranged Strike is worse than redundant, auto/area fire triggers Primary Target.
Two, it says "Once you make a Strike as part of this action, you fall unconscious." It is pretty obvious what happens, but area/auto-fire don't make Strikes unless you use Primary Target. So referring only to Strikes is odd.
8) Shell Shower (Soldier 10th)
The flavor text makes it clear, but the rules part should probably mention that the squares need to be adjacent to you, just to prevent casual misreading.
9) Ghost (Operative spec)
What exactly does "unaware" mean? The stealth system already has stages and conditions like Hidden, we should use those.
10) Enhanced Exploits
I know the intro texts says you get them at 9th level, but I know from experience (especially the AoN Swashbuckler Styles page) that people will miss that. It would be good to add a small "(9th)" in the individual spec descriptions.
11) Striker (Operative Spec)
One, even beyond the balance discussion, the whole "you now no longer get martial gun proficiency" thing seems needlessly complicated (also extremely strange when you get legendary advanced guns at 19th) and I've seen more than a few people misreading it as "you now only get proficiency with melee weapons".
Two, not including finesse and (probably not intentionally) excluding unarmed attacks from everything but the proficiency seems weird as well.
Quite a bit with this one. In all, this one should probably receive a significant overhaul.
DM Crustypeanut |
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2) Primary Target allows area weapons to make a regular Strike
I've gotten used to this due to how the devs used it before (it's just "specific beats general"), but I've seen more than a few people either not noticing or going "ehm, is this right?".
What got me personally is that Primary Target's mechanics and "story" don't line up in this regard. For example, the stellar cannon is basically a shrapnel missile launcher. But suddenly, the second missile I fire is just a dud and doesn't explode? I just know that wouldn't feel right in play.
They changed this from the field test - before, it was all one shot 'effectively', as in this primary target would be hit in the same shot as the rest of them, its just that you focused your area attack on the 'primary' target without expending additional ammo.
I guess they felt it was too strong, but now it doesn't match up with the story as you said.
Karmagator |
Karmagator wrote:2) Primary Target allows area weapons to make a regular Strike
I've gotten used to this due to how the devs used it before (it's just "specific beats general"), but I've seen more than a few people either not noticing or going "ehm, is this right?".
What got me personally is that Primary Target's mechanics and "story" don't line up in this regard. For example, the stellar cannon is basically a shrapnel missile launcher. But suddenly, the second missile I fire is just a dud and doesn't explode? I just know that wouldn't feel right in play.
They changed this from the field test - before, it was all one shot 'effectively', as in this primary target would be hit in the same shot as the rest of them, its just that you focused your area attack on the 'primary' target without expending additional ammo.
I guess they felt it was too strong, but now it doesn't match up with the story as you said.
Pretty much what I expected has happened as well. Either that or this was deliberately changed for the playtest to gauge reactions to it costing ammo. The stellar cannon having twice as much ammo as previously, making it effectively the same as before, certainly points to that.
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I've also got another one:
Run Hot (Soldier 8th)
"After you use this action, your weapon becomes unusable for 1 round as it cools off." In the new system, 1 round is until the start of your next turn, meaning it would only impede reactions. This is probably intended to mean "until the end of the next round".
Karmagator |
“Unaware” is probably Undetected.
Most likely, yeah, but we don't know is the problem.
I am unsure if I like Primary Target at -3 on the second shot when compared to the Operative's strike. I like the free strike I am unsure if it actually matters at the long term since often have I seem classes with +3 offensive attribute struggle hitting a second strike.
What do you mean "second shot"? Primary Target uses the same MAP as your aoe attack, meaning usually it will be at your full accuracy. Which admittedly is often 1 less than than standard due to not attacking with your key ability. Well and that weird delayed proficiency at level 13 and 14.But the Operative's accuracy is not what monsters are balanced against. Monster AC assumes the standard trained-to-master progression, so this shouldn't be a problem.
Nezuyo |
“Unaware” is probably Undetected.
I would actually suggest that Unaware actually refers to Unnoticed, at least from my reading of the PF2e rules.
If a creature is undetected, that doesn't necessarily mean you're unaware of its presence... The unnoticed condition covers creatures you're unaware of.
Shortend the rule slightly for brevity and highlighting what I meant, especially with the last line.