So what do we like as free archetypes now? Medic for chirgueon, monk for bestial, and familiar master for any field are jumping out at me. Fighter dedication is bad but the reactive strike is good on a bestial build, as are some of the feats. Not sure if the AC penalty and action cost are worth raging for but +4 damage to melee is nice. (I'll assume raging thrower won't apply to bombs.)
Investigator is another stand out to me. Purse a Lead and Clue In stack with the now omnipresent item bonuses out of combat. Also, I noticed they changed the trigger of Clue in from "attempts a check to investigate" to "attempts a check which could help get you closer to answering the question." That would include checks to attack an enemy. Clue Them All In now lets a proper investigator hand the entire party +2 circumstance on strikes as a reaction, yeesh.
DaS also seems great with the action economy improvements to both classes. Free action DaS tells you if you should use a consumable bomb with a good hit rider, or a good crit rider like dread ampoule, or just use a free vial bomb for splash damage. You also have more alternatives to striking at all than the investigator does. Known weakness can also help you target weaknesses and such. This is feeling like my favorite for bomber right now.
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Witch.
We really, really like Witch.
It's a proper non-construct familiar, access to whichever spell list you want, as many familiar abilities as you want, Cauldron, Cackle, and an evergreen Hex or 2 of your choice. True Strike is still great for 3gp a pop when you really don't want that costly bomb to miss. And buffs don't care about DCs.
Don't forget you can get as many free action Draws per combat as you allocate attunement slots thanks to Retrieval Belts, plural. Even if you don't want an item relay familiar, you can still load up a scroll or two you like to cast every combat, and cast them with the same action economy as real spell slots.
I've got my sights locked onto the Blood in the Water hex, which is a genuinely synergistic paring for the Alchemist.
Alchemist can inflict slash splash damage even on miss, and dealing any slashing damage triggers a sustain of the hex for free.
It also kinda sucks, but Gouging Claw (and Electric Arc) will outperform your alch stuff sometimes, and they both have little spellhearts now, but you still need access to spellcasting to use them.
I think a cool down on flurry is fine. You don't need it every round, just the ones you have to set up moves or elixirs. Also I'm unclear if ki strike lets you perform the action without the feat.
Rogue occurred to me as well, especially for the toxicologist. Feels like precision damage shouldn't apply on bombs, but it would apply on agile bestial claws, right?
I'm pretty sure Clue In isn't limited to Perception or skill checks by RAW. Pursue a Lead is, but there are already specific things which expand it beyond that. (Detective Readiness springs to mind.) It's possibly unintended, but it's not like Investigator is that strong even post remaster so I'm inclined to allow it until Paizo indicates otherwise.
Wrestler occured to me, but I wasn't sure how much action/map one could afford on grapple. But I guess there's always combat grab! Kholo can get grapple on their jaws too. Sadly their heritage circumstance bonus to maneuvers doesn't apply to grapples.
Witch seems solid. Cauldron occurred to me as very on brand. Blood in the water is smart. Which bomb deals slashing splash again?
As an aside, I'm not convinced the construct familiar dies at zero HP. Pre-remaster specific familiars like poppets explicitly said that, but the remaster general familiar ability does not. Neither does the construct trait in player core 1 or 2. The death and dying rules mention constructs die at zero HP but also says most NPCs do, but not the companions of PCs. GM core and Monster core traits mention being destroyed at zero HP, but those are GM driven NPCs. I'd at least expect table variance on this. (Also, they never specified how you get familiars back in player core 1. Did player core 2 mention it?)
Fittingly enough, the Blood Bombs, the persistent bleed bombs, are an uncommon that deal slashing splash. If you team already has that, might want Junk instead.
Cauldron gets a lot of value if you're willing to spend gp on crafting things like Oil of Swiftness, but the 1 p day item does scale w/ PC level. Meaning as soon as you hit L8, you get to drink/feed a 1A Haste spell each day as your "fallback" item in case you don't find anything you like more.
Rouge is always a great pick. Proper Quick Draw is huuuuge for Toxicologist, and Tox has a lot of options to inflict Off-Guard as an affliction.
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Regardless if the insta-death for Constructs is still a thing, I'm honestly rather pissed Paizo thought it was a good idea to force the trait onto all alch familiars.
It makes 0 sense for a creature of flesh and blood to be immune to bleeding, healing, etc, and I suspect Paizo genuinely did not think about how many existing familiars will be retroactively rendered illegal due to them being elementals, dragons, plants, etc.
As far as I know, it's also the first time Paizo have forced a familiar trait like that. It's just insane that idea was approved and implemented in a Remaster. Like, Witch knows how stupid it would be for any of the Patrons to force a familiar trait, even though it genuinely could make sense thematically. But you do NOT force those kinds of mechanics onto players, you just encourage/entice them to pick them on their own, such as with the *option* of a free, no-cost trait.
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I mean, if you don't want to be tied to construct, there are tons of ways to get one that isn't. Witch, familiar master, various ancestry feats, various multiclsss feats. I don't really understand the outrage here.
It's also not a creature of flesh and blood. "You have used alchemy to create life, a simple creature formed from alchemical materials, reagents, and a bit of your own blood." A bit of blood, and otherwise alchemical materials and reagents.
Functionally, you aren't gonna waste actions healing a familiar in combat and being a construct lets you quick repair it much faster out of combat. Unless your GM says they are destroyed at zero HP and throws a lot of AoEs at it (because enemies targeting it alone would usually be dumb), the trait is only upsides.
Edit: this also isn't a new flavor choice. The legacy alchemist feat says "You have used alchemy to create life, a simple creature formed from alchemical materials, reagents, and a bit of your own blood. This alchemical familiar appears to be a small creature of flesh and blood, though it might have some unusual or distinguishing aspects depending on your creative process." It only appeared to be of flesh and blood. The only reason it didn't have the construct ability already was that the familiar ability didn't exist before. Anyone who has to redo their existing alchemical familiar just wasn't paying attention before.
So what do we like as free archetypes now?
Why free?
Alchemist has always been excellent with Archetypes: they add a very nice layer of abilities.On mines, I have Fighter Dedication (Titanic Fury Cocktail is still working fine past remaster) and Summoner (with the buff to Bestial Mutagen, my Alchemist's Eidolon is now on par with a real one).
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So what do we like as free archetypes now?Why free?
Alchemist has always been excellent with Archetypes: they add a very nice layer of abilities.
On mines, I have Fighter Dedication (Titanic Fury Cocktail is still working fine past remaster) and Summoner (with the buff to Bestial Mutagen, my Alchemist's Eidolon is now on par with a real one).
Alchemist feats feel pretty important to me. I'd have a hard time justifying skipping them at any level, especially if I'm planning to mix items from multiple research fields. It's a bit like the swashbuckler and the summoner in this regard, or the koneticist. Their mechanics are so self contained that few things outside the class will synergize with them.
Alchemist feats feel pretty important to me. I'd have a hard time justifying skipping them at any level, especially if I'm planning to mix items from multiple research fields. It's a bit like the swashbuckler and the summoner in this regard, or the koneticist. Their mechanics are so self contained that few things outside the class will synergize with them.
Yeah, it honestly used to be that I would struggle to justify taking any Alchemist Feats outside familiar/calc splash/quick bomber and maybe perpetual breadth, though I never got the chance to try the "permanent elixirs + potions" trio.
It's hard to say if the new toys Feats will have lasting appeal, but it's easy to say there has been a clear improvement in that regard. It still seems way harder than it should be to actually get an evergreen Additive.
(It's very weird such a class mechanic only exists if you take Feats, I really thought each RF would get a generic boost Additive with the choice out of the box in the Remaster.)
The rule banning Additives from Vials is bugging me a bit more as I've sat on that, it's a big new crowbar in the works compared to Perpetual items.
Like, it's plainly obvious that one of the original concepts of the Additive system was to buff items as they fell behind in level. Meaning they were *the* chief tool to help the Lvl-6 Perpetuals. But as the replacement 0-cost Q-Vials can't use Additives, there's an entire new dimension of jank as Feats may only help the Q-Vial or may only help crafted items.
Not much of a surprise, but I'm keeping my Chiurgeons far away from all the "medicine" Feats / healing elixir enhancers. Combine Elixirs covers combat needs in a heartbeat, and if I really do feel the need to get yet even more condition removal beyond the alch list, can get a few spell scrolls or a medicine skill Feat.
Those Class Feats are just not compelling when they are stuck exclusive to one-half the Chi's already painful need to Quick Alchemy, have no guarantee of success, and directly compete with all other Class or Archetype Feats.
Additives are now less about enhancing weaker items than enhancing your strongest ones, sometimes through nova. (Combine Elixirs.) It's a much more intuitive approach, IMO. Especially since you don't have to do math on them now. I feel pretty fine with sticky bomb not applying 10 persistent damage to the free vials where you can change their damage type.
Sticky bomb and combine elixirs feel pretty evergreen to me.
So my reading on the familiar item delivery is that it can't feed you elixirs, just allies. Am I right about that? Pretty weird if so.
Alchemist feats feel pretty important to me. I'd have a hard time justifying skipping them at any level, especially if I'm planning to mix items from multiple research fields. It's a bit like the swashbuckler and the summoner in this regard, or the koneticist. Their mechanics are so self contained that few things outside the class will synergize with them.
Alchemists feats are much better, they used to be nearly useless if you were skipping Bombs. Still, you can easily invest in Archetypes once you have taken the really important ones, you're just no more investing all your feats in them.
As a side note, Medic is no more a staple on the Alchemist. You no more need to Treat Wounds for out of combat healing and the Chirurgeon now has excellent forms of in combat healing. On a Chirurgeon, grabbing Cavalier or Beastmaster goes a longer way in improving your healing ability than Doctor's Visitation and it can also serve as low level muscles, when you are at your lowest (as the remaster Alchemist stays really weak during the early levels).
Alchemists feats are much better, they used to be nearly useless if you were skipping Bombs. Still, you can easily invest in Archetypes once you have taken the really important ones, you're just no more investing all your feats in them.
As a side note, Medic is no more a staple on the Alchemist. You no more need to Treat Wounds for out of combat healing and the Chirurgeon now has excellent forms of in combat healing. On a Chirurgeon, grabbing Cavalier or Beastmaster goes a longer way in improving your healing ability than Doctor's Visitation and it can also serve as low level muscles, when you are at your lowest (as the remaster Alchemist stays really weak during the early levels).
I am super tempted to try out something like Beastmaster, but for now I really do not think Chiurgeon has enough VVs to be any sort of combat healer, and am focusing on that.
If you set aside even just 3 VVs for ongoing buffs, a lozenge + a mutagen + a other buff, that'll leave you with 4/7 left.
That's enough for 2 Combine Elixirs for the whole fight. And if you want to Combine Buff turn 1 w/ something like Soothing + Numbing, that's 2 more gone.
I think I'll need Medic's 1 p hour heal just to give my Vials some room to breathe. Honestly not fun to squeeze into the build, and I might just do 1 single Feat for Lesson of Life on this Arch:Witch Alchemist instead, idk.
Honestly, worrying too much about that specific PC without knowing the rest of the party is pointless.
But seeing just how quickly you run out of VVs is... pretty yikes.
You know you have a bunch of daily resources, too. You should not need any form of additionnal healing to be the main party healer.
I think Medic still has appeal for a Chirurgeon. Robust Health is taken by the patient, not the healer for example. And Doctor's Visitation is still a decent Action compression Feat.
I definitely agree that Alchemists are better off investing in Invigorating Elixir and its follow-ups than Treat Condition (if healing is what you want to invest in.)
On the topic of investing in Archetype Feats in general... I do think there's more appealing Alchemist Feats now than there were previously. I've enjoyed the three Martial Artist Feats I took on my Mutagenist, but now I'm wondering if I should drop one to grab Combine Elixirs, which is definitely greatly improved over its original version.
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You know you have a bunch of daily resources, too. You should not need any form of additionnal healing to be the main party healer.
Tell that to the APs that have 5+ fight days.
8 prep items before Int = 5.
1 Antiplague
1 Antidote
1 Darkvision
1 Soothing
3 Elixir of Life
1 Skunk Bomb
That's all my prep. Even with half dedicated to healing items, that's just enough prep healing to make a difference during a single fight day.
But not remotely enough to plan to dip into repeatedly during a multi-fight day.
Instead, those few heals will be used as back-ups only if my VVs + non-Alch healing is not enough for a fight.
And if I budget just a mutagen, lozenge, & injury poison out of my VVs, that's 3/6 gone.
3 remaining VVs for combat.
And if I want to get up-front value and do a Combine buff turn 1 (either on myself or an ally), that's a single VV left.
Yeah, this just unambiguously sucks.
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I don't know what sort of sketch prep you are looking at, but it seems that in order have any amount of budget to use multiple healing elixirs, Chiurgeons must abandon the Alchemist flexibility that's the entire point of the class, abandoning things like injury poisons, mutagens, etc.
Even when doing so, that'll be 1 or 2 more elixirs per fight, so good effing luck being "the main party healer" with only alchemy.
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Tell that to the APs that have 5+ fight days.
5+-fight days are the exception, not the rule.
And with your renewable resources you are not that bad for these long days. It's not as if you'd heal every fight.
And if I budget just a mutagen, lozenge, & injury poison out of my VVs, that's 3/6 gone.3 remaining VVs for combat.
3 out of 7. You either have 2 VVs per 10 minutes or 3 of them and then 7+ VVs (outside level 9, let's not focus on this sole level).
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I was expecting this thread to get busy after the blog yesterday. I was not disappointed. I cannot hope to keep up with all the math you all are throwing around, but I appreciate not letting your emotions get the better of you.
Then the only reasonable course of action is to remove all the nerdiest posts, clearly if they can't be understood then they're surely up to no good!
/s
Even when doing so, that'll be 1 or 2 more elixirs per fight, so good effing luck being "the main party healer" with only alchemy.
I mean, isn't the benefit for Chirugeons that you can use Craft (INT-based) in place of Medicine (Wis-based) and many parties have their main healer just be "someone who invested in Medicine" which might not even be a Wis class.
So "being the main party healer with only alchemy" seems like an artificial constraint since the game is telling you "also use medicine checks, you are better at this than other alchemists."
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I would think the more encounters per day the better the new system will work. If you are basically getting 6-7 vv's per fight that's a lot of recharging resources. Then you can also throw or give a quick vial to everybody for some healing once ever 10 mins or more if they are below 50% health and have the talent. Combined with their better skill at medicine than other alchemists and their greatly improved condition removal power I think chirugeons look like they are way better set to hold a niche in a group.
On top of that mutagens having lessened negatives and free quick vial bombs means they have better to alchemical attack methods without having to devote much resources to. Add to that their weapon proficiencies finally scale to master means you always have a fall back of actually attacking with weapons/bombs and not feel like your time is better spent handing your stuff off to other party members.
A quick note: the only Mutagen that changed in Player Core 2 is Bestial Mutagen. While it's true that most will consider the new Drawback an improvement (AC penalties are basically universally despised) the new Drawback actually applies to more things (Reflex Saves and two Dex Skills as opposed to just Reflex Saves and AC.)
Where the Remastered Alchemist differs greatly from the original's approach is the ability to do things ahead of Encounters. The Advanced Alchemy pool can create less than half the items of its predecessor, Infused Reagents. At the end of his career, my tenth level Outlaws of Alkenstar Bomber was making 4 Moderate Elixirs of Life, 4 Silvertongue Mutagens, 4 Numbing Tonics, 2 Moderate Life Shot, 4 Quicksilver Mutagens, 9 Moderate Bombs, two Greater Mistform Elixirs and held onto two Batches for use with Quick Alchemy.
Of those items, he would give out 3 of the Elixirs of Life, the Silvertongue, the Life Shot and the Numbing Tonics to his three partners. That was 13 Items, with 12 more kept for himself. This is simply impossible under the current system, where at 10th level the Advanced Alchemy pool tops out at 12 items (Alchemical Familiar, Efficient Alchemy.)
I'll make a quick claim that most Bombers will not be taking Alchemical Familiar due to competition from other Feats.
What I find interesting is how the different Research Fields are likely to approach the different pools in the Remastered system.
All four are likely to devote a good portion of the AA pool to their Mutagens. This will allow Mutagen use to be 1 Action (in hand), free Action (Collar of the Shifting Spider) or no Action (make enough Greater or Major Mutagen to be active for 8 hours a day.) The last one is rather unlikely in the current system but still theoretically possible.
Bombers are going to want to avoid using their Versatile Vials pool outside of combat, because it's the only Resource compatible with Additives. Additives give Bombs their biggest punch, so Bombers are going to be continually weighing the odds of an Encounter going long when considering using Create Consumable for something other than a Bomb. Quick Vials will generally be used for secondary strikes in a round.
Mutagenists are likely to want to use Combine Elixirs to boost themselves quickly with 10 minute duration Quick Alchemy'd Elixirs. Mutagenists will have room to use the "continually dose yourself or others with two or three QA'd Elixirs" technique because generally using up the Versatile Vials in combat will take too much time. Mutagenists are unlikely to use their Quick Vial capability because of the action economy, at least until the L17 Quickened feature comes in.
Chirurgeons will also likely use "continually dose yourself or others with two or three QA'd Elixirs" for similar reasons as Mutagenist, unless they wish to use Bombs a lot (Healing or otherwise.) Chirurgeons may get the most use out of their Quick Vials of any Research Field outside Bombers.
Toxicologists are going to want to have advanced intel on upcoming encounters more than any other Research Field, in order to use Create Consumable to poison their (and others') weapons and ammo in advance of a fight. Toxes are also the most likely to burn through their Advanced Alchemy pool the fastest. Uptake on Quick Vials will probably be limited, as it encourages taking a full round for a single Melee Strike.
8 prep items before Int = 5.
1 Antiplague
1 Antidote
1 Darkvision
1 Soothing
3 Elixir of Life
1 Skunk Bomb
The first 3 of those strike me as exactly the sort of thing quick alchemy is great for. Maybe the fourth as well, but I'm not sure which soothing item you mean. Anything that you MIGHT need need if you encounter the right situation doesn't feel like something to burn advanced on. Poison is relatively common, so I could see justifying that, but it also feels like something you want to use on whoever actually gets poisoned rather than whoever might roll a save against it. (I'll admit having perpetual antidotes for the whole was cool though, and will rightfully be missed.) The last four items are a decent fall back if you run out of versatile viles, but I'm not sure how often that will happen before combat is over. (Legit not sure, not saying it won't happen. It's a small pool but you only have so many actions per round, and even fewer on the rounds that matter.)
Personally I'd focus advanced alchemy on hour+ generically useful things Eagle Eye or Cheetah Elixirs.