Guardian Learning From Others


Guardian Class Discussion


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Sharing some ideas that I think the Guardian class could learn/poach from other classes (et al), some of which rival or surpass a Guardian at doing what a Guardian's supposed to specialize in. Or simply do it differently in ways a Guardian likely should, if only for diversity so one could replay as a Guardian in style different from their first.

Alchemist:
Bit meta, but that no matter how much utility (defense) a class gives, base numbers matter.
Using feats to patch up holes in the chassis feels bad.

Barbarian:
Lowering one's defense (as a Guardian does w/ Taunt) will hurt even a d12 class w/ temp h.p. and (situational) damage resistance.
One-action prep should reap dividends throughout a battle, improving a lot as one levels
Poach some maneuver options, since they're tied to Rage, maybe tie to Taunt/Engage w/ enemy.
Right now, a Barbarian that focuses on maneuvers will outperform a Guardian AND do damage AND be able to resort to a beefy attack when switching from control to damage (esp. easy for Animal).
Also would like Guardian to have similar bashing/bulldozing feats.

Q: Would an altered state (i.e. Rage/Dwarven Defender's Stance) benefit the Guardian?

Bard:
If one's going to pay an action/round, it should have a sweeping effect!
The only time they roll is to improve those effects.

Champion:
Everything?! Paizo overloaded these defensive martials because defense warrants it (much like Heal got boosted so as to be astounding in PF2 vs. 3.X/PF1). Guardian kinda needs to match the raw damage Champions can alleviate, at minimum since Champions have other boosts too, including Condition removal.

Clerics:
Same here in that the Guardian needs to match what a Warpriest can absorb/heal/etc.

Trouble w/ matching both Champion & Clerics is they can tap into supernatural justifications for how their abilities transcend plausibility. We need to see some anime shenanigans at high level!

Commander:
Defensive Swap!
I have to suspect it and some of the other feats that seem fit for the Guardian are being playtested on the Commander because they're sure things for the Guardian.
Heck, it should be the Reactive Strike of Guardians, and I'd want to use it every round, so much so I'd have to poach it via archetype.

Druid (& Ranger):
Not so much to poach the animal companions themselves so much as to having the Guardian rival the hit point sponges that they are coupled with Focus Spell healing every combat. That's a large tank available plus some animals have control abilities.

Fighter:
One can be superior in one aspect while competitive in another. (Offense/Defense for a Fighter; swapped for Guardian, both of who lack much breadth/utility outside of core theme)
Even with excellent feats, one's chassis can carry itself w/o them. Guardian's can't.
It's really nice to have different combat styles bread-n'-butter moves supported at level 1/2!

Also imagine how a shield & gauntlet Fighter w/ Combat Grab, Knockdown, Shield Warden, and similar feats down the line could essentially transform their offensive prowess into defense/control dominance...and still be able to swap back to a 2-hander if needed (gold issues aside).

Q: It'd be cool to mirror how a Fighter has Press Attacks; feats w/ MAP one kinda needs a Fighter's higher attack proficiency to execute, but which are so effective. Could the inverse work for a Guardian? Maybe feats that put one in too much danger for a lower AC PC to want to poach?

Kineticist:
Wood Kineticist indeed sets a high bar for Guardian who have to take the damage directly.
Also gonna mention the elements that can insta-build armor and how that can interact with Guardian's ability to sac armor for damage. Not a must-have combo, but odd shenanigan.

Monk:
Stunning Fist, self-healing, debuffs, superior maneuver feats, a Reaction vs. move actions.
Much like the Barbarian, the Monk outperforms the Guardian for control while maintaining excellent defense and losing little if anything in offense. Plus they can always intervene. Heck, if they poached Defensive Swap, they'd be far superior IMO to a Guardian. Stride, Flurry, Stride back to an ally's side, Defensive Swap.

Ranger:
No roll for Hunt Prey, continual benefits throughout.
Could mirror the Edges: attack, damage/h.p., AC/skills; yet opposite or for one's ally instead.
And late game Outwit Rangers w/ all the buffs that key off of Share Prey and a success with Master Hunter. I'd suspect they're aiding their allies more than a Guardian.

Summoner:
Some of the Eidolon power: Pushing Attack, Weighty Impact, Resilient Shell, Trample, etc.
Defend Summoner (except one's Ward, Engaged Ally, whatever it might be called)
Monster powers are cool, like some of the ones from metal elementals or Inexorable.

Swashbuckler:
Can place a sticky debuff that aggros (Antagonize 2nd) w/o needing to renew every round.
Can protect allies in a 10' radius by 4th with a Reach weapon (Guardian's Deflection, it's right in the name!).
Opportune Riposte: Part of me wonders if this ability/archetype feat is exactly why the high AC class has a poor attack progression! The Guardian class itself kinda needs something similar or else players gonna poach it.

...
Dwarf:
Yep, they have a few that suit the "heavy guy" motif like Unburdened Iron or even March the Mines (w/o burrowing) which a Guardian kinda is built to do.

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Blessed One, Bastion, Sentinel, etc.
Several archetypes, slapped on generic "tough" chassis, can contend with a Guardian's performance.

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