So, I was recently reminded of a DnD Streamer and one of their characters that was a "multiclassed into every class" build (Abserd). The character concept had me thinking something similar for PFS, and my ADHD mind decided to build a character to reflect myself - too unfocused to dedicate more than a single level to any class they happen to take.
I'm guessing that most of the Spellcasting Classes are going to be out of the option, since your Caster Level will always be low and you're stuck at Spellcasting Level 1. Albeit there are a few ways to increase your caster level of all your Spellcasting Classes up to CL3 (Half-Elf and a Trait? I forgot the exact combination).
In that same stretch, I'm assuming Familiar Builds aren't going to be that good either - since Familiar Builds require mostly Spellcasting classes. Would be awesome to be proven wrong.
With that being said, my brain is being split between Dex-Abserd and Str-Abserd. On one hand, we have a Fate's Favored Half-Orc (Shifter > Id Bloodrager > Barbarian > ???), on the other hand we have another Fate's Favored but Halfling (Un.Rogue > Bard > Slayer > ???).
I haven't actually gone too in-depths into these builds yet. I was in the middle of fleshing out the strength build, but my power went out and lost everything.
Has anyone had any experience or advice regarding a "Oops, All Multiclass" build?
About familiar.
Do note that while gaining special abilities increase as with the class, their basic abilities (skills, bab, hp, and dc for their abilities) go by the character's level and total combined abilities.
In which case going with this fighter archetype to gain a familiar and taking familiar bond and improved familiar bond (there is a trait that let you skip the iron will requirement) will give you a full powered familiar.
You can go for mauler if you want a fighting one (the improved bond feat let it have all familiar abilities so it's eligible for familiar archtypes that give up their speak with others animals) and maybe take this to increase it's hp.
or you can go for improved familiar to gain a more advanced familiar.
----------------------------
On the other hand if you don't mind the restriction to alignment, worship and the type of familiar you get then the wasp familiar will get you a full leveled familiar (and taking it again at 7th level make it improved familiar) based on your total character level with minimal feat used (on the plus side since it doesn't give up the talk with others it can easily also be a mauler familiar).
The chaotic neutral alignment it impose does fit the chaotic multiclass build theme as well. But will most likely block out monk class unless taken before while changing your alignment later:
"Ex-Monks
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."
one interesting way to go is to build on racial feats. say going with a Kitsune and taking the ability to swap class gained feats for extra tail. then focusing on enhancing that and sla away in fox form or complementing your attacks with the sla.
or taking Aasimar and focusing on the wings and Heavnly Radiance feats to complement your lack of higher class abilities.
edit: the ability for kitsune seem to only effect one favored class so..not ax nice as i thought it would be.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One option would be to play a small race focused on riding an Animal Companion:
Barbarian (mad dog) and Brawler (wild child) are great because they give up options of the 2nd level, which you'll never get. Then you have the various cavaliers to choose from.
By focusing on Wisdom, you also can become a druid, hunter, warpriest (divine commander), and inquisitor (sacred huntmaster), which are all Wis-dependant! Yeah, all will be of low level, but there are low-level spells that are still useful.
From this point forward, you can pick classes that don't give you an AC, but the feat Boon Companion will give you up to 4 AC levels.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My "samurai" is one of these. As the daimyo of his clan, he took it upon himself to learn the professions of all his subjects.
Got to level 14 before PF1 ended publication. Was GM credit until level 3, so he was always a Samurai in flavor in play. When he was level 11 with only a few games left before retirement, the Lore Warden errata came down and granted him a full rebuild - so he changed the weapon he focused on from katana to chainsaw and gambled on it working for the last scenarios and modules. The chainsaw was from a scenario chronicle, but only has a few hours of use left.
Used boons to start with a 3rd trait and a stat boost. And then more boons for some gear.
Half-orc (city-raised, heart of the streets, sacred tattoo, scavenger, skilled)
Berserker of the Society, Iron Control, Lingshen's Finest
1. Barbarian (Urban)
Power Attack
2. Magus (Kensai, originally also Card Caster)
3. Samurai (Sovereign Blade originally Sword Saint)
Furious Focus
4. Hunter (Feral Hunter)
5. Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade for more grit)
Extra Rage
6. Gunslinger (Bolt Ace, Gun Tank)
6b. retrain hunter to Bloodrager (urban, originally Steelblood) (Dedication focus) for BAB
7. Fighter (Lore Warden)
Vital Strike, Furious Finish
8. Occultist (Battle Host)
9. Cleric (Varisian Pilgrim) (self-perfection variant channel)
Weapon Versatility
10. Wizard (Foresight School - pre-rolling a d20 per round is great)
11. Ranger (Guildbreaker - Aspis)
Scavenger's Luck
12. Shifter (Holy Beast, Swarm Shifter - vermin aspect is amazing)
13. Inquisitor (Spellbreaker)
Surge of Success
14. Brawler (Mutagenic Mauler)
The chainsaw had answering, consecrated, and keen added to it. Ring of Balanced Grip let me use it without penalties. Whispering Gloves make the chainsaw silent.
@Zza Ni - You pointing these out only makes me want to explore these options even more. Albeit the fighter archetype would be non-required because you don't start sharing combat feats until level 2. That, and unless there was an errata or clarification, House of the Green Mother only works with Familiar Bond and you'd still need Iron Will for Improved Familiar Bond. Unfortunately, due to PFS, the Wasp Familiar is unavailable (unless there is a Boon I'm unaware of).
Regarding the Racial Feats build, it looks rather interesting. I presume you are referring to the Nine-Tailed Scion trait that allows you to replace any bonus feat (combat or otherwise) with a Kitsune Tail Feat? Heavenly Radiance would also be an interesting since you can use your racials as spells instead of relying on the classes.
@Azothath - One of the reasons why I was thinking of this build was how chaotic yet organized you'd have to be to pull it off. I can definitely see this being a "focus on skills" situation, but at the same time I'm certain there are some combinations that work and synergies well together enough to make a level-dip only build.
@Sir Longears - Scribbling that one down on my list of builds that I'm researching for right now. So far, I've gotten an idea for four Extreme Multiclass builds. One for a Strength build, one for a Dex build, one for a Familiar build and one for a Animal Companion build. Will probably flesh them out more and post once I've gotten the ideas all fleshed out.
@Nugal - That actually looks like a really interesting build. The Wizard choice reminds me of a build my friend made that had +20 Initiative at level 1 (Wildfire Heart Ifrit, Max DEX, Divine Wizard, Reactionary, Improved Initiative). Might end up stealing this idea for my DEX Level Dip Build (Wizard Drop out ftw).
I really like that build, it feels so messy but it synergies so perfectly. Tbh when I was first looking at this multiclass challenge, I didn't even bother looking at spellcasting classes other than a few secondary spellcasters. You pointing this out actually is making me consider reevaluating them for their class skills. Lol
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
speaking of racial feats build.
there is the somewhat OP nagaji's spit venom 5 feat tree chain (2nd, 3rd etc).
With all 5 you can set a 5 ft radius space (that mean 4 5 ft squares around one grid point) that anyone who start their turn there is automaticly entangled in a psido tangalfoot bag and take acid damage (no save on both) and need to make saves or be blind and take and 2d6 bleed damage. they also need a standard action to free themselves.
before the Tarrasque got upgraded in the inner sea gods with the unstoppable racial ability, a level 2 nagaji fighter who took 3 of the feats could have stopped him in his tracks, with no to hit rolled or save allowed, and force him to spend his turn getting free before it could move onward. (if he could somehow get close enough to spit and this doesn't stop the Tarrasque from simply ranging him to death or just hitting him since he would probably be inside his reach.)
You make a character like my dad where when they level up you role randomly and that determines what class you pick. He played the build in numerous pfs module including bonekeep and it’s gone really well for him.
Goldcape
Once you run out of full bab classes to dip into your combat progressions stalls hard
Once you run out of full bab classes to dip into your combat progressions stalls hard
Fractional is your friend here. Two levels of a half BAB class would add up to a +1 increase. Same for your saves.
So was building a DEX version of this build, and noticed something interesting. If you take the Kineticist class, you gain access to the Esoteric Knight Prestige Class - or you could use a Psychic class. Either one would be pretty good, since you get a form of permanent Martial Flexibility. Not sure if it's worth the overal -1 BAB or taking an effective dead class (since you can't advance any of their class features). Just something I noticed.
@Heather 540: Not sure if PFS uses Fractional Advancement from the additional rules, but it would be nice if they did.
Anyway, this is what I've gotten for the Dex Build:
STR: 7 || DEX: 19 || CON: 12
INT: 12 || WIS: 12 || CHA 14
Trait 1: Reactionary // Trait 2: Fate's Favored
Level 1: Wizard (Divination - Foresight School)
-> Arcane Bond (Familiar: Jerboa)
-> Lvl 1 Feat: Improved Initiative
Level 2: Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade)
-> Deeds: Derring-Do, Dodging Panache, Opportune Parry and Riposte
-> Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse (Rapier)
-> Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus (Rapier)
Level 3: Gunslinger (Gun Tank)
-> Feat: Fencing Grace
Level 4: Bard (Archeologist)
-> +1 DEX
Level 5: Bloodrager (Urban Rager, Elemental Bloodline: Air)
-> Lingering Performance
Level 6: Ulfen Guard (Prestige Class)
-> Guard Dedications: Rage Power
-> Rage Power: ???
Level 7: Fighter (Lore Warden)
-> Feat: Piranha Strike
-> Bonus Feat: ???
Level 8: Brawler (Mutagenic Mauler)
-> +1 DEX
Level 9: Darechaser (Prestige Class)
-> Feat: ???
Level 10: Ranger (Freebooter)
Level 11: Cavalier (Sister-in-Arms)
-> Order of the Dragon/Order of the Lion
-> Feat: ???
Level 12: Lantern Bearer (Prestige Class)
-> +1 DEX
It isn't 100% complete, but the idea is pumping DEX as much as possible as well as increasing the initiative all the way to the top. At level 1, you're looking at ~20 starting Initiative as well as the ability to store a d20 as Nugai mentioned on his character.
I was hoping to add Investigator into the mix, but I'm already 2 stages behind on BAB as is with the Wizard and Bard dips. The Bard dip works with Fate's Favored, giving me a +2 Luck bonus with everything, and Lingering Performance pretty much tripling the bonus.
The flow of actions is basically, Turn 1 turn on Archeologist's Luck and drink the Mutagen (if it's a big fight). Turn 2 turn on Urban Rage for even more Dexterity stacking. All-in-all, the amount of Dexterity Stacking is pretty insane, haven't yet done the math but between everything it looks like it'll end up being 30?
Ulfen Guard (Prestige Class) is the only way to get Rage Powers, definitely going to be more important for my Strength build (going to focus on Natural Attacks) probably).
What do you guys think? Any feats you'd fill in for the ???'s in the build? Anything you'd do differently? Anyone wanna do the math for me and make things are clear?
Tbh, everything past level 6 was pretty rushed because of Overtime scheduling at work, but I'd much appreciate you'alls opinion on the first build so far. Second build will definitely be using Id's Rager for massive strength buffs.
(Edit) One of the things that I like about this build is it's triple stacking on stats into Grit/Panache. So using the Headband of Mental Prowess and Headband of Mental Superiority would allow you to double dip gaining uses/day for each ability score the headband increases.
If you include prestige classes you have enough full BAB classes to get the character to 20th level. Meeting the requirements is going to use up a lot of your feats for things that don’t synergize well.
Almost all full BAB classes have good fortitude saves, many of them good reflex saves, but most have poor will saves. So that is going to end up with something like Fort +28, Reflex +17 and will of +7.
|
Not sure if PFS uses Fractional Advancement from the additional rules, but it would be nice if they did.
PFS does not. And Fractional Advancement would definitely hurt your saves.
+2F, +2R
+2R, +2W
+2F, +2W
You'd ordinarily be at +4F, +4R, +4W. Using fractional it would be +3F, +3R, +3W.
If you repeated the pattern for your next three classes fractional would be at +4, +4, +4 instead of +8, +8, +8.
Two builds that have many, many different paths to be a multiclass monster are Vital Strike or Cleave focused characters. Because this character typically only makes one standard-action attack per round. (Be a dwarf and take the Goblin Cleaver/Orc Hewer/Giant Killer chain if you're going cleave.)
Did some fiddling around - unfortunately I have work in the morning but this is what I've got so far for my STR version of this build. Unlike the DEX version, it aims to overwhelm with extremely high amounts of natural attacks. Here is what I've got so far, let me know what y'all think:
STR: 18 || DEX: 13 || CON: 12
INT: 7 || WIS: 10 || CHA: 11
Trait 1: Fate's Favored // Trait 2: ???
Level 1: Shifter
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Feat: Extra Feature
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d4) / Slam (1d4)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
Level 2: Bloodrager (Id Rager: Anger)
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Turn 1: Free Action > Rage = +6 Str (24) / +4 Con (18) / -2 DEX (10)
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
-> Bonus Feat: Power Attack (While Raging)
Level 3: Bard (Archeologist)
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Turn 1: Free Action > Rage = +6 Str (24) / +4 Con (18) / -2 DEX (10)
-> Turn 1: Swift Action > Archaeologist’s Luck (+2 Attacks, Saving Throws, Skills, and Damage)
-> Feat: Lingering Performance
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
Level 4:
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Turn 1: Free Action > Rage = +6 Str (25) / +4 Con (18) / -2 DEX (10)
-> Turn 1: Swift Action > Archaeologist’s Luck
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
-> +1 STR
Level 5:
-> Feat: Extra Rage
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4)
Level 6: Ulfen Guard (Prestige Class)
-> Purchase: Pelt of the Beast (Boar) - 15,600 gp
-> Guard Dedications: Rage Power
-> Retrain* Level 5: Extra Rage Power
-> Rage Power: Fiend Totem, Lesser
-> Rage Power: Dragonic Blood, Lesser
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Gore (1d6) / Claw (1d4) / Claw (1d4)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4) / Hoof (1d4) / Hoof (1d4)
Level 7: Brawler (Mutagenic Mauler)
-> Feat: Fast Change
-> Turn 1: Move Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Mutagin = +4 Str (23) / -2 Int (5)
-> Turn 1: Free Action > Rage = +6 Str (29) / +4 Con (18) / -2 DEX (10)-> +1 STR
-> Turn 1: Swift Action > Archaeologist’s Luck
-> Primary: Bite (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Slam (1d6) / Gore (1d6) / Claw (1d4) / Claw (1d4)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d4) / Talon (1d4) / Hoof (1d4) / Hoof (1d4)
Level 8: Fighter (Unbreakable)
-> Bonus Feat: Endurance
-> Bonus Feat: Diehard
-> +1 STR
Level 9: Living Monolith
-> Turn 1: Move Action > Change Shape = +2 Dex (15)
-> Turn 1: Standard Action > Mutagin = +4 Str (24) / -2 Int (5)
-> Turn 1: Free Action > Rage = +6 Str (30) / +4 Con (18) / -2 Dex (13)
-> Turn 1: Swift Action > Archaeologist’s Luck
-> Turn 2: Swift Action > Soul Stone Enlarge Person = +2 Str (32) / -2 Dex (11)
-> Primary: Bite (1d8) / Slam (1d8) / Slam (1d8) / Gore (1d8) / Claw (1d6) / Claw (1d6)
-> Secondary: Talon (1d6) / Talon (1d6) / Hoof (1d6) / Hoof (1d6)
-> Feat: Iron Will
-> Bonus Feat: Toughness
Level 10: Medium (Relic Channeler)
-> Purchase: Tiger's Hide Armor - 545,115 gp
Level 11: ???
-> Feat: ???
Level 12: ???
-> +1 STR
Other Purchases:
Belt of Giant Strength (4000/16000)
Belt of Physical Might: Str+Con (10000/40000)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (4000/16000/36000)
A lot of it focuses on wealth overall, honestly if it got to level 13, I'd think about taking the Totem feats over the actual barbarian totems (since using a Swift action to gain Pounce is pretty nuts).
The main reason I went Aerieborn instead of Rageborn is because I didn't know if Pelt of the Beast had a Raptor option (it wasn't listed in the list of benefits). If you can select Aerieborn with the Pelt of the Beasts, then Rageborn is 100% better.
Obviously, you'll need a Society Boon to play a Skinwalker.
Not only that but you seem to be trying to stack multiple natural attacks on each limb. While it may be possible to POSSESS multiple attacks on a limb you may only use one attack per appendage in a given turn. I’m fairly confident you can use both a bite and a gore attack together that’s going to hard cap you at 6 attacks unless you acquire more appendages capable of mounting natural attacks.
@Tottemas - Ah yeah... I think that mistake was from a previous build that I was going for with Rageblood (Gore/Hoove/Hoove), and forgot to change the attack from Secondary to Primary when I changed it from Hooves to Talons. You are correct, Talons are a Primary Natural Attack not a Secondary Natural Attack.
Honestly accidentally skipped over that with the Shifter, shame though would of been a nice combo. But I can understand the balance of it. I'm guessing Lizardfolk would probably be the best Natural Attack Stacker then - albeit I don't have access to a society sheet for Lizarfolk. Lol
@Trokarr - I know I played with a table that was the opposite, but if you have the rules or errata/clarification text for this, that would be very helpful to provide my DM. I've heard of people saying this but I hadn't been able to find the original source other than what seems like RAI with not being able to use a Natural Attack on the same limb that you're using a Manufactured weapon, but that's it.
On that realm of thinking - if you are going to restrict Slam and Claw attacks from being used together for both being (Arm) attacks, than Gore and Bite would also be restricted from being used together because they're both using the (Head) limb. It's really hard to argue for one while arguing against the other.
Tbh, I never really played a Natural Attack build. I just was thinking "What would benefit from having really high strength while also not minding having a lower BAB".
If we are going by 1 attack per limb, we have 6 natural attacks available if you include a Tail attack from certain items/races.
Gore/Bite (Head)
Slam/Claw/Pincers (Arms) x2
Talon/Hooves (Legs) x2
Tail/Sting (Tail)
Outside of Society, if you can get wings and certain other things, you also have;
Tentacles (unlimited, own body part)
Wings (Wings) x2
If you can get more arms, then you can attack with those extra natural weapons. The hard part will be getting those extra arms with only having one level per class and playing in PFS.
Themonkeyfish - in answer to your questions it seems understood that combining a bite and a gore attack is allowed as multiple monster stat blocks have bites and gores together. As for multiple attacks per limb being disallowed, on a quick check I found this FAQ that is related.
Half-Orc--Toothy: Does this alternate racial trait stack with the Razortusk feat (page 168) granting you two bite attacks?
This is one of those areas where we tried to get at the same idea multiple ways. In this case, the answer is no, unless you somehow manage to get an extra mouth. Generally speaking, natural weapons can only be used once per round each. This also applies to the Animal Fury barbarian rage power (Core Rulebook, page 32).
If you post your questions to the Rules forum you may get a more thorough answer.
Half-Orc--Toothy: Does this alternate racial trait stack with the Razortusk feat (page 168) granting you two bite attacks?
This is one of those areas where we tried to get at the same idea multiple ways. In this case, the answer is no, unless you somehow manage to get an extra mouth. Generally speaking, natural weapons can only be used once per round each. This also applies to the Animal Fury barbarian rage power (Core Rulebook, page 32).
This clarification is more directed at trying to get multiple Natural Attacks of the same type (i.e.: x2 Bite Attacks) vs having different Natural Attacks on the same limb (i.e.: Slam attack and Claw attack).
Regarding the statement that monsters have both a Gore Attack and a Bite Attack - Nachzehrer have Slam/Claw and Champion Automaton have Pincer/Slam attacks with both only having one set of arms, (albeit I'll admit I can't find any with Claw/Pincer attacks or sting/tail slap), so I'd rule either allowing slams and claws to be used together or denying gore and bite. Honorable Mention to Mutants who can have both Slam and Claw attacks for each arm by RAW but potentially no way to use it as long as we also agree to deny Gore/Bite under the same logic.
I'll probably have to post in Rules for a more direct answer, but the clarification mentioned above was specifically for stacking multiple Bites.
I remember seeing someone asking about an Eidolon Tail Slap/Sting but hadn't seen any update on that yet.
Well, Eidolons can get multiple tails anyway so that takes care of Slap/Sting.
a bit late, if you play a half-elf like you wrote in the op then this feat will make every class you pick (probably not prestige class though) your favored class.