Deceptive tactics? Anyone?

[Unicore]

I want to like deceptive tactics, but I am struggling to imagine how to use it. It feels like pincer attack is the much, much more reliable way to get offguard for melee fighting than a feint, so the feat really boils down to lengthy diversion and the ability to hide without cover for at least one round…ok, interesting, but what is the commander doing with this? One attack a combat with offguard? Are people picking it?

[pH unbalanced]

Yeah, it only seems useful for a Commander operating on their own, or maybe with a Rogue dedication. I've built a couple of Commanders, and never take it.

Now, what would make it useful is if it allowed you to Feint (or Create a Diversion) as a reaction to help one of your squadmates. I've played a PF1 Mesmerist with the Misdirection trick, and that feels like what this ought to be, but clearly isn't.

Misdirection:

The mesmerist can trigger this trick when the subject makes an attack or uses a spell that requires an attack roll. The mesmerist attempts a Bluff check to feint against a single target of the subject’s attack. Unlike a normal feint, this ability can be used on non-melee attacks. If the feint succeeds, the target of the attack is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC against the triggering attack. The target doesn’t suffer any additional effects that the mesmerist or the subject would cause on a normal feint or Bluff check.

[pH unbalanced]

Actually, I just thought of a use for this. Let's say you wanted to build a Commander that did not personally bear a Banner (probably on its Mount) and wanted to give Tactics verbally while hidden, because they are not combat capable. A lot of tactics will break invisiblity, but not hidden. So you are playing an unseen puppet master.

I'm imagining a CON-dumped Elf or a Sprite might be a good character to do this -- someone with abysmal Physical stats but able to get a good Stealth.

I also just realized that there is no reason you can't issue tactics while in a Battle Form. A Beastkin Commander in Pest Form might be fantastic for this.

[Old_Man_Robot]

I'm planning on testing out a Commander with the Scout Archetype.

General plan is to use Deceptive Tactics and a series of Deception feats like Fleeing Diversion to enable Scout's Charge and Scout's Pounce.

[Unicore]

I will be interested to hear how it goes!

[Quentin Coldwater]

Deceptive Tactics is good because it doesn't eat a Tactics slot. You only have two tactics at a time (so far), so this is for the people who didn't pick Pincer Attack (or vice versa). It's good to have redundancy/fallback options so people aren't stuck with the one option.

Another option is that you can use Deceptive Tactics and an actual tactic in the same round. You could do Deceptive Tactics, Piranha Assault, Strike, in the same round, for instance.

A third option, though this might just be an editing thing, is that Pincer Attack specifically says If any of your allies end this movement adjacent to an opponent, that opponent is off-guard to melee attacks from you and all other squadmates who responded to Pincer Attack

Note the lack of "you or any of your allies" there (which is present in End It! or Piranha Assault), meaning that if you're the only one threatening an opponent (maybe the other frontliners are busy with other enemies), you didn't put that opponent off-guard.

The differences are subtle, but I think it's worth having Deceptive Tactics as a feat, maybe even alongside Pincer Attack.