What’s with the spells

[tytalan]

Okay I understand that this is a remastered class but unless all the other classes get more spell slots this is way OP.

1) you have the advantages of both a prepared caster and a spontaneous cast with tho controlled a larger selection of spontaneous spells pre rank than any other spontaneous caster. With the addition benefit of changing them every day and they are all signature spells coming from multiple spell tradition list.

2) on top of this incredible level of versatility they get more spells pre rank than any other class. 6 cantrips and 4 for every rank until 9 than 3 for 9th. And this all without feat cost. On top of this you get versatility in your focus spells and start with 2 focus points. Now you can say that the Apparitions spells are limited but look at the list they are primarily Primal or Arcane spells.

3) on top of all this versatility you can also take feats to add to your Apparitions repertoire which means these spells are also signature spells.

4) to top this off they get legendary spell casting at 19th level making them as good as any other caster.

So to summarize at first level I can prepare any two divine cantrips plus say Tangle Vine and ignition. Plus I can prepare any 1 divine spell plus I can cast either Wall of shrubs or Imposing Earth as I need.

At fourth level I can prepare any 2 divine cantrips plus Tangle Vine, Ignition, and Gouging Claw. 2 rank one and 2 rank two divine spells that I prepared ahead of time and I have a rank 1 and a rank 2 slot that I can use to cast any of the following (Wall of Shrubs, Imposing Earth, runic body, genial Breeze, Entangling Flora, Exploding Earth, Heal, Harm) all of them Signature spells.

This only get more extreme. And I’m not even getting into the fact that this class has a bunch of melee boosts and Wild shape

[Macondi Missani]

tytalan wrote:

So to summarize at first level I can prepare any two divine cantrips plus say Tangle Vine and ignition. Plus I can prepare any 1 divine spell plus I can cast either Wall of shrubs or Imposing Earth as I need.

Nice. At first level I have 5 divine cantrips available along with Spout and another primal cantrip that I can change out once per day. Those last two are from ancestry feats though. I also have Magic Weapon, Heal, and Command that I can cast twice with my two spell slots. And there is Brain Drain and Scholarly Recollection as focus spells.

So... is there something wrong with that?

[keftiu]

What are you afraid a melee Animist is going to do?

[tytalan]

Macondi Missani wrote:

tytalan wrote:

So to summarize at first level I can prepare any two divine cantrips plus say Tangle Vine and ignition. Plus I can prepare any 1 divine spell plus I can cast either Wall of shrubs or Imposing Earth as I need.

Nice. At first level I have 5 divine cantrips available along with Spout and another primal cantrip that I can change out once per day. Those last two are from ancestry feats though. I also have Magic Weapon, Heal, and Command that I can cast twice with my two spell slots. And there is Brain Drain and Scholarly Recollection as focus spells.

So... is there something wrong with that?

Yea and the extra spells only cost you a ancestor feat. And your character will never have more that 5 the animist will have 7 plus their ancestor spells. And unlike your character the animist can have any divine spell in one slot and a choice of two different none divine spells in his second slot. Of course that’s only at 1 st level by 4th he completely out spells you and by 10th he gets more slots that you. Oh and all of his spontaneous spells are signature spells you only get one per spell rank.

[Michael Sayre]

tytalan wrote:

Of course that’s only at 1 st level by 4th he completely out spells you and by 10th he gets more slots that you.

A 10th-level animist has:

5 cantrips
2 1st-rank prepared slots
2 2nd-rank prepared slots
2 3rd-rank prepared slots
2 4th-rank prepared slots
2 5th-rank prepared slots
2 1st-rank apparition slots
2 2nd-rank apparition slots
2 3rd-rank apparition slots
1 4th-rank apparition slot
1 5th-rank apparition slot

for a total of 5 cantrips and 18 slots. Of those, the animist can put any divine spell of an appropriate rank in 10 of the available slots, and can spontaneously cast any of the 15 apparition spells of an appropriate rank available to them in the remaining 8 slots. They can choose 2 cantrips they have access to from the divine list and the other 3 are determined by their apparitions.

A 10th-level cleric has:

5 cantrips
3 1st-rank slots
3 2nd-rank slots
3 3rd-rank slots
3 4th-rank slots
3 5th-rank slots
5 5th-rank divine font slots

for a total of 5 cantrips and 20 slots. They can memorize any divine spell plus their deity spells, within rank-appropriate slots, in 15 of those slots, and are limited to heal or harm in their divine font slots (feats like Channeled Succor, or Restorative Channel as the remastered version is called, can expand the options to include a variety of condition removal spells, as well.) They can memorize any 5 divine cantrips they have access to.

So the cleric has more total slots with more than twice the number of top-rank slots and a wider array of options during preparation, but without the in-the-moment flexibility and off-list access of the animist. Eventually the animist does creep slightly ahead in total number of overall slots, but is always well behind in number of slots for the top ranks of spells due to the cleric's Divine Font.

[Macondi Missani]

Yeah. That is what I am seeing too. As far as Divine spellcasting, I am better at it than the Animist is.

Animist has some good things going for it too. But it isn't enough that I am sitting here as a Lore Oracle feeling jealous of it.

[shroudb]

Michael Sayre wrote:

tytalan wrote:

Of course that’s only at 1 st level by 4th he completely out spells you and by 10th he gets more slots that you.

A 10th-level animist has:

5 cantrips
2 1st-rank prepared slots
2 2nd-rank prepared slots
2 3rd-rank prepared slots
2 4th-rank prepared slots
2 5th-rank prepared slots
2 1st-rank apparition slots
2 2nd-rank apparition slots
2 3rd-rank apparition slots
1 4th-rank apparition slot
1 5th-rank apparition slot

for a total of 5 cantrips and 18 slots. Of those, the animist can put any divine spell of an appropriate rank in 10 of the available slots, and can spontaneously cast any of the 15 apparition spells of an appropriate rank available to them in the remaining 8 slots. They can choose 2 cantrips they have access to from the divine list and the other 3 are determined by their apparitions.

A 10th-level cleric has:

5 cantrips
3 1st-rank slots
3 2nd-rank slots
3 3rd-rank slots
3 4th-rank slots
3 5th-rank slots
5 5th-rank divine font slots

for a total of 5 cantrips and 20 slots. They can memorize any divine spell plus their deity spells, within rank-appropriate slots, in 15 of those slots, and are limited to heal or harm in their divine font slots (feats like Channeled Succor, or Restorative Channel as the remastered version is called, can expand the options to include a variety of condition removal spells, as well.) They can memorize any 5 divine cantrips they have access to.

So the cleric has more total slots with more than twice the number of top-rank slots and a wider array of options during preparation, but without the in-the-moment flexibility and off-list access of the animist. Eventually the animist does creep slightly ahead in total number of overall slots, but is always well behind in number of slots for the top ranks of spells due to the cleric's Divine Font.

If we're adding divine font slots in the mix though, then that means that domain focus powers should be remastered to the power level of vessel spells no?

Because I was under the impression that divine font was contrasted to vessel spells (as the Unique thing of each class) and not merely to the base spellcasting capabilities of each class.

[Poweroftwo]

There may be a couple extra spells but the Repertoire is pre-determined and there's nothing to game breaking in there, *mostly.

Honestly when i saw the preview stream before the document my reaction was that the apparitions would be Tradition based not spell list based (having a predefined spell list feels like we're going backwards to 1E - same for the Wizard's new schools). So yeah i thought the class could basically be a full, L progression Caster ON-TOP of a M progression Martial. Having the ability to be mostly a Martial but pull out a Chain-Lightning / Lightning Storm / Fireball / Cone of Cold etc out of your.... book for that one encounter every 2 levels with 5+ enemies WOULD be game-breaking, but it's not that.

There's like a Fireball and a Phantasmal Calamity in there, and PC is pretty high level. WoAB has some other spicy stuff like True Target but the list is mostly fairly tame. Specially cantrip Wise. No TKP, no EA.

But yeah no haste, no slow, no maze, no heroism, no synesthesia.... having a few extra RP / Flavour slots is great, for the right table, but functionally i wouldn't call the spontaneous casting for the Animist very "extra" ;)

[Unicore]

Part of what I want to hear about and see from playtesting is how much players are using their apparition spells vs their basic divine spells and how that interacts with some of the coolest and most powerful spell boosting feats we have yet seen in PF2.

Like Cardinal Gaurdians is totally Gonzo. Sure you can get status bonuses to spell attack roll spells pretty easily, and debuffing saving is something most parties try to do when dealing with a solo boss (even though -2 status penalty is hard to land), but all this requires is that you try to do what you were going to try to do anyway to buff yourself or debuff your enemy. The only action cost is that you attack them with the right spells.

Wizard PCs would be riotously celebrating in the streets if they got a 14th level feat anywhere near this, even if it only worked on their school spells.

So the playtest question is whether being so limited in the number of your Apparition spell slots makes this incredible feat into somewhat of a trap, an amazing must have ability that makes the animist the new ultimate single target blaster, or a more healthy balance somewhere in the middle.

I personally would almost rather see the animist go even lower on divine spell slots to get more apparition slots, but the feats of the class might just be too overtuned for that to really work. Being limited to 1 or 2 top level slots is incredibly restrictive for a blaster.

[shroudb]

Unicore wrote:

Part of what I want to hear about and see from playtesting is how much players are using their apparition spells vs their basic divine spells and how that interacts with some of the coolest and most powerful spell boosting feats we have yet seen in PF2.

Like Cardinal Gaurdians is totally Gonzo. Sure you can get status bonuses to spell attack roll spells pretty easily, and debuffing saving is something most parties try to do when dealing with a solo boss (even though -2 status penalty is hard to land), but all this requires is that you try to do what you were going to try to do anyway to buff yourself or debuff your enemy. The only action cost is that you attack them with the right spells.

Wizard PCs would be riotously celebrating in the streets if they got a 14th level feat anywhere near this, even if it only worked on their school spells.

So the playtest question is whether being so limited in the number of your Apparition spell slots makes this incredible feat into somewhat of a trap, an amazing must have ability that makes the animist the new ultimate single target blaster , or a more healthy balance somewhere in the middle.

I personally would almost rather see the animist go even lower on divine spell slots to get more apparition slots, but the feats of the class might just be too overtuned for that to really work. Being limited to 1 or 2 top level slots is incredibly restrictive for a blaster.

Earth and fire focus spell damage for 1 action, given that you can stack 2-3 of them round 1 and keep them up the whole combat already kinda does this without external help...

As an example, at that level 14, you can be doing 16d4+14+7 (54+7) persistent from round 1 till round 10 of a combat, for 2 focus points, and still have an action remaining each round for maybe a 3rd blast or a different focus spell.

[Cylar Nann]

shroudb wrote:

Earth and fire focus spell damage for 1 action, given that you can stack 2-3 of them round 1 and keep them up the whole combat already kinda does this without external help...

As an example, at that level 14, you can be doing 16d4+14+7 (54+7) persistent from round 1 till round 10 of a combat, for 2 focus points, and still have an action remaining each round for maybe a 3rd blast or a different focus spell.

Yeah, this seems off... it is a playtest after all though. These vessel spells powers are insane compared to what we have now. Just sustaining three vessels spells and dancing around seems very powerful to me.

I haven't done the math, but I feel like this would put Kineticist and ranged martial damage to shame.

Of course, they could just limit it like hexes/compositions to one at a time. I feel this just sidesteps the issue though. Casting one of these plus a 2-action spell seems like it would still really beat out other casters.

It is just weird seeing these 2 classes looking so powerful at the start. From every other playtest I followed classes were always average/weak and called for buffs... I missed Kineticist playtest so I have no idea what that was like. This design philosophy is fine, in my experience in video games people get REALLY upset at nerfs though :(.

[Unicore]

shroudb wrote:

Unicore wrote:

Part of what I want to hear about and see from playtesting is how much players are using their apparition spells vs their basic divine spells and how that interacts with some of the coolest and most powerful spell boosting feats we have yet seen in PF2.

Like Cardinal Gaurdians is totally Gonzo. Sure you can get status bonuses to spell attack roll spells pretty easily, and debuffing saving is something most parties try to do when dealing with a solo boss (even though -2 status penalty is hard to land), but all this requires is that you try to do what you were going to try to do anyway to buff yourself or debuff your enemy. The only action cost is that you attack them with the right spells.

Wizard PCs would be riotously celebrating in the streets if they got a 14th level feat anywhere near this, even if it only worked on their school spells.

So the playtest question is whether being so limited in the number of your Apparition spell slots makes this incredible feat into somewhat of a trap, an amazing must have ability that makes the animist the new ultimate single target blaster , or a more healthy balance somewhere in the middle.

I personally would almost rather see the animist go even lower on divine spell slots to get more apparition slots, but the feats of the class might just be too overtuned for that to really work. Being limited to 1 or 2 top level slots is incredibly restrictive for a blaster.

Earth and fire focus spell damage for 1 action, given that you can stack 2-3 of them round 1 and keep them up the whole combat already kinda does this without external help...

As an example, at that level 14, you can be doing 16d4+14+7 (54+7) persistent from round 1 till round 10 of a combat, for 2 focus points, and still have an action remaining each round for maybe a 3rd blast or a different focus spell.

I assume you are thinking that in the first round the animist is spending an action activating channeler's stance and then casting Earth's Bile twice?

So a little bit less with one round than the Animist would just entering their stance and then casting rank 7 Volcanic Eruption (59.5+7). But that is something they are only doing once a day at level 14. and can't be sustained (although it could hold a cluster of enemies in place to really lay into later. It is certainly possible that something like (areas can't overlap) could be added to earth's bile after the play test which isn't really even a nerf of the ability, just a clarification of how it works and then I think it would be fine.

The thing is, none of those options work with cardinal guardians because either you have to spend an action to switch apparitions if you want to get these effects off of focus spells or you have to go a non-stone and fire apparition spell slot spell first and then Earth's bile if you want to get the accuracy boost. I think there are way better ways to mix up your spell casting, but I am struggling to see it with the options we currently have as apparitions. Since Earth's bile is the only one with a save or a spell attack roll. Tanglevine into Earth's Bile is an interesting "all day-ish" option since it can kind of work like a budget volcanic erruption. Gouging claw into Earth's Bile is more damage but feels like it would be difficult to set up ever. Without Earth's Bile, Cardinal Guardians is almost a dead feat, or a feat you can only use once or twice a day with any real effectiveness.

I kind of think the game might be better without such a tempting but limited option.

[tytalan]

shroudb wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

tytalan wrote:

Of course that’s only at 1 st level by 4th he completely out spells you and by 10th he gets more slots that you.

A 10th-level animist has:

5 cantrips
2 1st-rank prepared slots
2 2nd-rank prepared slots
2 3rd-rank prepared slots
2 4th-rank prepared slots
2 5th-rank prepared slots
2 1st-rank apparition slots
2 2nd-rank apparition slots
2 3rd-rank apparition slots
1 4th-rank apparition slot
1 5th-rank apparition slot

for a total of 5 cantrips and 18 slots. Of those, the animist can put any divine spell of an appropriate rank in 10 of the available slots, and can spontaneously cast any of the 15 apparition spells of an appropriate rank available to them in the remaining 8 slots. They can choose 2 cantrips they have access to from the divine list and the other 3 are determined by their apparitions.

A 10th-level cleric has:

5 cantrips
3 1st-rank slots
3 2nd-rank slots
3 3rd-rank slots
3 4th-rank slots
3 5th-rank slots
5 5th-rank divine font slots

for a total of 5 cantrips and 20 slots. They can memorize any divine spell plus their deity spells, within rank-appropriate slots, in 15 of those slots, and are limited to heal or harm in their divine font slots (feats like Channeled Succor, or Restorative Channel as the remastered version is called, can expand the options to include a variety of condition removal spells, as well.) They can memorize any 5 divine cantrips they have access to.

So the cleric has more total slots with more than twice the number of top-rank slots and a wider array of options during preparation, but without the in-the-moment flexibility and off-list access of the animist. Eventually the animist does creep slightly ahead in total number of overall slots, but is always well behind in number of slots for the top ranks of spells due to the cleric's Divine Font.

If we're adding divine font slots in the mix though, then that means that domain focus powers should be remastered to the...

To get that your adding the clerics divine font which can only be used for heal or harm spells and is a unique feature of the cleric. Every other class will only 15 slot’s compared to the animists 18 slots. You cherry picked your comparison to support your point. Plus the cleric has at most 3 none divine spells added to their spell list while the animists has up to 9 such spells. It’s the whole spell package that’s the problem any single aspect is okay but when you add it all together it’s broken.

[Lanni Talimbi]

The whole spell package also has this really big divide going right through the middle of it.

Just counting spell slots doesn't show the whole picture.

Sure, at level 5 I have 9 off-tradition spell slot spells and 3 cantrips. None of which do I actually get to choose freely. That choice also affects which focus spells I have. And at higher levels, which Wandering feats I can choose. I also can't just go pick a spell that I like the look of - if it doesn't show up on an Apparition list, I don't get it.

And, maybe more importantly, I only have 1 slot per level to cast them with at level 5. I can't use Animist spell slots with those spells.

And then on the other side of that chasm, I have 2 cantrips and 2 slots per level of Divine spells. Having only 2 cantrips feels really limiting. It is a hard choice between Light, Guidance, Stabilize, Shield, Divine Lance/Needle Darts. Because I only get two of them.

-----

In comparison, Cleric gets several off-tradition spells that they also don't get to choose freely - some Deities give more than just three. They also get 5 cantrips and can spend a feat to get 2 more. And they get 3 slots per level, as well as Divine Font. Whole package comparison that is looking pretty good.

Oracle can get off-tradition spells that are a bit more freely chosen, but still limited. They get them 3 at a time, but can take the feat repeatedly. They also get 5 cantrips and 3 slots per level without a big divide through the middle of it.

But if you really want off-tradition poaching, take a look at Impossible Polymath. It is expensive and high level, but you can freely get any spells you want.

[tytalan]

Poweroftwo wrote:

There may be a couple extra spells but the Repertoire is pre-determined and there's nothing to game breaking in there, *mostly.

Honestly when i saw the preview stream before the document my reaction was that the apparitions would be Tradition based not spell list based (having a predefined spell list feels like we're going backwards to 1E - same for the Wizard's new schools). So yeah i thought the class could basically be a full, L progression Caster ON-TOP of a M progression Martial. Having the ability to be mostly a Martial but pull out a Chain-Lightning / Lightning Storm / Fireball / Cone of Cold etc out of your.... book for that one encounter every 2 levels with 5+ enemies WOULD be game-breaking, but it's not that.

There's like a Fireball and a Phantasmal Calamity in there, and PC is pretty high level. WoAB has some other spicy stuff like True Target but the list is mostly fairly tame. Specially cantrip Wise. No TKP, no EA.

But yeah no haste, no slow, no maze, no heroism, no synesthesia.... having a few extra RP / Flavour slots is great, for the right table, but functionally i wouldn't call the spontaneous casting for the Animist very "extra" ;)

Those couple of spells gives them a greater spell selection than a sorcerer. At 10 level a animist has 15 spells to use these slots with and everyone is a signature spell while the sorcerer has 20 but the sorcerer only has 5 signature spells vs the 15 that the animist has

At 12 level the animist jumps up to 24 spells the same as a sorcerer with 24 signature spells vs the sorcerers 6.

On top of this the Sorcerer can only change his spells when he levels while the Animist can change his entire spell repertoire every day.

[Lanni Talimbi]

tytalan wrote:

Those couple of spells gives them a greater spell selection than a sorcerer. At 10 level a animist has 15 spells to use these slots with and everyone is a signature spell while the sorcerer has 20 but the sorcerer only has 5 signature spells vs the 15 that the animist has

And most of them aren't spells that I would have chosen if I was given the choice. I'm not entirely sure what I am going to use Wall of Shrubs for. Maybe something will come up. Ghostly Weapon is ... cool, I guess.

Also, the count of spells in repertoire is again a bit more subtle than that. Sure you might have 15 spells to use. And all of them can be cast twice with your highest spell slots. But the number available goes down as you go down in spell slot rank.

tytalan wrote:

On top of this the Sorcerer can only change his spells when he levels while the Animist can change his entire spell repertoire every day.

But again, I can only change it out in large blocks, and only to another large block of pre-selected spells. Which also happens to be tied to the focus spells and feats that I have available.

[tytalan]

Lanni Talimbi wrote:

The whole spell package also has this really big divide going right through the middle of it.

Just counting spell slots doesn't show the whole picture.

Sure, at level 5 I have 9 off-tradition spell slot spells and 3 cantrips. None of which do I actually get to choose freely. That choice also affects which focus spells I have. And at higher levels, which Wandering feats I can choose. I also can't just go pick a spell that I like the look of - if it doesn't show up on an Apparition list, I don't get it.

And, maybe more importantly, I only have 1 slot per level to cast them with at level 5. I can't use Animist spell slots with those spells.

And then on the other side of that chasm, I have 2 cantrips and 2 slots per level of Divine spells. Having only 2 cantrips feels really limiting. It is a hard choice between Light, Guidance, Stabilize, Shield, Divine Lance/Needle Darts. Because I only get two of them.

-----

In comparison, Cleric gets several off-tradition spells that they also don't get to choose freely - some Deities give more than just three. They also get 5 cantrips and can spend a feat to get 2 more. And they get 3 slots per level, as well as Divine Font. Whole package comparison that is looking pretty good.

Oracle can get off-tradition spells that are a bit more freely chosen, but still limited. They get them 3 at a time, but can take the feat repeatedly. They also get 5 cantrips and 3 slots per level without a big divide through the middle of it.

But if you really want off-tradition poaching, take a look at Impossible Polymath. It is expensive and high level, but you can freely get any spells you want.

That divine gives them unbelievable versatility. You have two slots per rank that can be any Devine spell and two slots per rank that are none Devine spells that you get to choose from two lists at 1st level, 3 at fourth, and 4 at 12 plus you get to change those lists every day which no other spontaneous caster can. To make them even more versatile all these spontaneous spells are signature spells.

[Lanni Talimbi]

Make sure to playtest this in at least a mock-adventure. Build both an Animist and an Oracle/Cleric/Sorcerer - being sure to optimize both of them to the best of your ability. Then run them through an adventuring day or two - even if it is just virtual by yourself and simply envisioning what the characters would be doing and what resources they would have and be spending on each of the encounters.

Whiteroom numbers comparisons don't tell the whole story.

[Unicore]

People really seem to be overestimating what an animist can accomplish with their apparition spell slots. 1 highest level spell per day. That is it. Blasting with spell slots is not for the animist. support and buff? sure, they are closer to a sorcerer doing this, but still have a dreadfully small selection of spells and slots to cast them with AND cool abilities that will take away a whole set of options everytime you use them

[MEATSHED]

Sorcerer literally has more than twice as many spontaneous slots and you know, actually gets to pick most of the spells and which ones would be good signature spells. Like being locked to certain spells is a pretty major balancing factor, for example on the imposter list literally 2 spells care about being heightened, the rest being signatures is something no one would actually do.

[tytalan]

Lanni Talimbi wrote:

Make sure to playtest this in at least a mock-adventure. Build both an Animist and an Oracle/Cleric/Sorcerer - being sure to optimize both of them to the best of your ability. Then run them through an adventuring day or two - even if it is just virtual by yourself and simply envisioning what the characters would be doing and what resources they would have and be spending on each of the encounters.

Whiteroom numbers comparisons don't tell the whole story.

I’ve done it. The animist wins hand down vs every other pure caster. Greater versatility than the any of them and as of second level after one feat a better heal/harm caster than the cleric. But there’s a giant hole in this playtest. We don’t have the remastered casters to compare to.

[MEATSHED]

tytalan wrote:

Lanni Talimbi wrote:

Make sure to playtest this in at least a mock-adventure. Build both an Animist and an Oracle/Cleric/Sorcerer - being sure to optimize both of them to the best of your ability. Then run them through an adventuring day or two - even if it is just virtual by yourself and simply envisioning what the characters would be doing and what resources they would have and be spending on each of the encounters.

Whiteroom numbers comparisons don't tell the whole story.

I’ve done it. The animist wins hand down vs every other pure caster. Greater versatility than the any of them and as of second level after one feat a better heal/harm caster than the cleric. But there’s a giant hole in this playtest. We don’t have the remastered casters to compare to.

I'm going to be real with you, you are going to have to explain how embodiment of balance makes them better than cleric at casting heal/harm. Like clerics literally have more divine font heals/harms than animists do spell slots at level 2.

[Lanni Talimbi]

tytalan wrote:

Lanni Talimbi wrote:

Make sure to playtest this in at least a mock-adventure. Build both an Animist and an Oracle/Cleric/Sorcerer - being sure to optimize both of them to the best of your ability. Then run them through an adventuring day or two - even if it is just virtual by yourself and simply envisioning what the characters would be doing and what resources they would have and be spending on each of the encounters.

Whiteroom numbers comparisons don't tell the whole story.

I’ve done it. The animist wins hand down vs every other pure caster. Greater versatility than the any of them and as of second level after one feat a better heal/harm caster than the cleric.

Cool.

So... You going to post a detailed writeup for it like Mathmuse and some others have? Or do we just have to take your word for it in preference to our own thoughts on the matter?

[John R.]

Yeah my play experience versus expectations of the spellcasting were very different. I picked a some bad divine spells for the coming situations and some of my apparition spells were also inappropriate although one was perfect for one encounter. I also suggest playing without any metagame knowledge before making a final judgment.